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Thread: Health care in America.

  1. #1
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    Default Health care in America.

    No the "in amercia" was not ment to be a andit keith joke.
    Talk about your views.
    Yes I know it is a touchy subject at the moment but that should not stop us from talking about it.
    I will not take to kindly to trolls in this thread. ^^

    My views are....
    I believe that government should not control business, but I also agree that business should not contol us. What I mean is that insurance companies should not be able to charge us whatever they will. We are dependent on them for the most part. It is wrong what they do. Government should be watchful of insurance companies.
    I think that more should be done to give us the people a say in what we pay for insurance. This can be done by making them work for our money. This can be done by having a government run health care. Not control the insurance companies but making a seprate business that take customers from them. Ups, ect... are able to out do the USPS, so why not insurance companies?
    They charge so much because even if they lose you as a customer they more than make up for it from the ones that stay. they dont care about you, end of story.
    When you get sick they drop you. Not all the time, but first reason they have they drop you. Even if it ha nothing to do with the reason you are sick. That is just evil. This goes far above "wanting to make a buck",they are not even thinking about you as a person, just as another sucker that might pay them.
    Even though I do not agree with everything in the health care reform bill, I do think it is needed. It WILL cut cost over the long term, both directly and indirectly. If people pay less for insurance and dont go into debt from health care bills as often then they can spend more. Simple as that. Not hard to understand at all now is it?
    Now I heard that there is something in the health care bill that sounds really bad, but... I thought about it more and did research. What was so bad was.... forcing people to go on health care if they have none. This only applies to those that can afford it though. This really does help... as long as the way that this is determinded is not complicated and full of flaws. We can always fix it if it is, becuase this is still 1000 times better than what we have.
    Ill practice has also been in the bill. This made me very happy that we are doing something about all the people that "skim a little pff the top". This will also cut cost. $1000 for a tooth brush? really? Oh I am being charged for the same thing 4 times? I think not.



    The list goes on and on. But now I will leave some room for you to talk. talk about anything "health care" related. Not even the bill, just anything..... in america..... I just had to.

    The seven stakes of purgatory! ^^ Good thing to know that they will be the last thing you see before you die. ^^

  2. #2
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    I`m from Canada and I love my health care system <3
    "A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."

  3. #3
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    TL;DR, your mistake is relying on the government to keep an eye on corporate insurance for us. They'll never do that. Since they're so anxious to discard all responsibility on corporations, it's clear they don't care about us at all. And once private insurance companies will be given control, there's no telling them what to charge you and how to deal with you, they'll do whatever the hell they want, and what they want is the typical: Maximum payment for Minimal (Zero is the preferred) service.
    Last edited by DOOM!; 03-09-2010 at 02:39 PM.


  4. #4
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    My attempt to take on the tl;dr.
    Quote Originally Posted by TechCNgod View Post
    My views are....
    I believe that government should not control business, but I also agree that business should not contol us.
    But government needs to control some business in order to be a government. Getting rid of all control is basically anarchism.

    What I mean is that insurance companies should not be able to charge us whatever they will. We are dependent on them for the most part. It is wrong what they do. Government should be watchful of insurance companies.
    I think that more should be done to give us the people a say in what we pay for insurance. This can be done by making them work for our money. This can be done by having a government run health care. Not control the insurance companies but making a seprate business that take customers from them. Ups, ect... are able to out do the USPS, so why not insurance companies?
    A company has one priority and one priority only--> to make money. It is an unfeeling uncompasionate machine. Whenever it sees an oppertunity to make money, it does so. No company works for free (unless it's a non-profit or other such exception); which even in that case still needs to make money to suvive.
    They charge so much because even if they lose you as a customer they more than make up for it from the ones that stay. they dont care about you, end of story.
    When you get sick they drop you. Not all the time, but first reason they have they drop you. Even if it ha nothing to do with the reason you are sick. That is just evil. This goes far above "wanting to make a buck",they are not even thinking about you as a person, just as another sucker that might pay them.
    Not evil, just business as usual- it's not their fault, that just how it works. It may be wrong what they're doing, but they're not going to stop doing it if they're making money because that is how a business operates. That's why we need rules and regulation to be put in place by laws to prevent abuses.

    Even though I do not agree with everything in the health care reform bill, I do think it is needed. It WILL cut cost over the long term, both directly and indirectly. If people pay less for insurance and dont go into debt from health care bills as often then they can spend more. Simple as that. Not hard to understand at all now is it?
    Basically what I said above about using hard law to prevent abuse.

    Now I heard that there is something in the health care bill that sounds really bad, but... I thought about it more and did research. What was so bad was.... forcing people to go on health care if they have none. This only applies to those that can afford it though. This really does help... as long as the way that this is determinded is not complicated and full of flaws. We can always fix it if it is, becuase this is still 1000 times better than what we have.
    Ding ding ding, we have a winner. This isn't the first reform bill to health care, and it sure as hell won't be the last. But to do nothing is irresponisble and incompetent- regaurdless of your ideology.

    Ill practice has also been in the bill. This made me very happy that we are doing something about all the people that "skim a little pff the top". This will also cut cost. $1000 for a tooth brush? really? Oh I am being charged for the same thing 4 times? I think not.
    Just one example of the things insurance companies are able to slip through the cracks. Glad that it's going to be taken care of.


    The list goes on and on. But now I will leave some room for you to talk. talk about anything "health care" related. Not even the bill, just anything..... in america..... I just had to.
    Well, I would like to see the public option put back into the bill, I really would.

    "anything in america"? Hmm, how about let's.. take it one thread at a time here.

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  5. #5
    Yoko Littner Fan Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio's Avatar
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    I'm from America and I love my health care system.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    I'm from America and I love my health care system.
    exactly. i like healthcare and insurance the way it is now. it should never be changed.

    "Thinking of you, where ever you are..."
    Sig by me

  7. #7
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    @ericgamer: Glad to see a detailed post.
    1. Control and regulation are 2 different things. They can cross some times but there is a line that I see. Maybe it is just my own way of explaining it that is the issue thats all. Control = saying what you can and can not do. Regulation = limits to protect the people.
    Thats my way of seeing it, thats all.
    2. Yes a company does need money, thats what it is there for. Tell me what are yor feelings on a monopoly? Thats almost what insurace companies have. there is a reason we take steps to avoid it. You see though we hear of insurance companies all the time it does not mean we have a choice between them. They all do the same thing. When you quit 1 you have only 2 options.
    A. Dont get insurance.
    B. Go to another insurance company.
    I love that choice. A lose-lose situation always makes me wake up happy.

    Also as I said before there is "Making a buck", and " doing everything in your power to line your pockets with gold knowing other are suffering for it". Ethics is an issue to me, though it is a tricky issue. because these people think of nothing but themself others suffer. They also do not think in the long term. It was their actions that pushed healthcare reform to the point it is at now.
    3. Yes but what I was pointing out is you can pay to them your whole life and then when you need thier end of the deal to come through they drop you, and keep your money. People die because of this. Lives get ruined. I se no justic here, or anything right. I dont care if it is legal, it is wrong and needs change.
    4. Ok, but I was touching on the bill not insurance companies.
    5. Never say never. I learned that the hard way. ^^ I agree doing nothing is bad. What is even worse though is that some not only do nothing, but try and block his bill just because it might be a victory for te other side. They add nothing, nor do they help, they just block and slow the nation down.
    6. Yes I am glad as well, they leave few subjects un touched in the bill.
    7. Yes I would like to see the public option back as well. I think it will be in the final bill though. the whole up or down vote thing is not for the final bill, it is for amendments to the final bill AFTER it passed. In other words if things change a little it CAN end up in the bill.
    8. ( I am adding this. ) I love the public option if done right. I see few ways it can be screwed up. It gives us negotiating power over insurance companies, and that is what we needed all along.

    @Wio: You love it because it works for you. That is not true for everyone. You have to give more than you think toinsurance companies. Your tax dollars...
    Yes some of your taxes go to them to stop some of thier wrong practices.... we all see how that went..... fail.
    Last edited by Battler Ushiromiya; 03-09-2010 at 04:17 PM.

    The seven stakes of purgatory! ^^ Good thing to know that they will be the last thing you see before you die. ^^

  8. #8
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    Simple, do like they do with taxes. If the poor need it, give it to them. Let the rich pay a little for theirs.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechCNgod View Post
    @Wio: You love it because it works for you. That is not true for everyone. You have to give more than you think toinsurance companies. Your tax dollars...
    The irony in this argument is it is often used to justify a system that takes away what is working for some folks for something that will, in all likelihood, not work for anyone. Just. Sayin'.

    We discussed this not so long ago; one, two months maybe? A decent discussion was had there. The search feature is recommended.


    Bad Memory

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    I'm from America and I love my health care system.
    Exactly. I don't really think we need to change it.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Show View Post
    The irony in this argument is it is often used to justify a system that takes away what is working for some folks for something that will, in all likelihood, not work for anyone. Just. Sayin'.

    We discussed this not so long ago; one, two months maybe? A decent discussion was had there. The search feature is recommended.


    Bad Memory
    You do understand that the tax dollars I talk about is the ones that we give to insurance companies that dont need them, right?
    How is giving tax money to a alredy filthy rich company going to help? If the bill passes and stops giving them this money, and they decide to go nuts and raise rates they can go out of business, how you may ask? Simple part of the bill will add a government element the will have to do business with and work for our money.
    Giving tax money to insurance companies do work for some people..... the insurance companies..... not everyday people. Just because things are working for you does not mean taking this money away from the insurance companies will effect you.
    Here I will put it in simple terms.
    "Stop giving them free money and put that money where it should go.... to the country, and people."
    I dont care if there was a thread about whatever you were talking about because you missed the whole point and prolly did not understand what tax dollars are being spent on the insurance companies or even why.

    @ All that think things are fine. : Yes it is fine for you, and if the bill passes things will remain the same, and they can raise your rates at will, and deny coverage when you get sick. There are many other people out there beside you! People that have conditions, ect... They get the short end of the stick. I must admit that right now it works for me but I am not so blind or iggnorant that iggnore the suffering of others.
    Last edited by Battler Ushiromiya; 03-09-2010 at 09:36 PM.

    The seven stakes of purgatory! ^^ Good thing to know that they will be the last thing you see before you die. ^^

  12. #12
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    Homework for you, TechCNgod: walk into your local ER, and if you can find a health care employee not busy then ask them what they think. Ask a couple doctors, a couple nurses, maybe a couple paramedics while you're at it. As people actively working in the health care system what they think about the health care system, and about the proposed fixes. You're very willing to rant off of one sentence without considering the broader scope of that sentence. I strongly suspect that you aren't aware of what all the proposed fixes will and won't do, or what the short- and long-term ramifications will be.

    "If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions..."


    Bad Memory

  13. #13
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    I feel so sorry for the younger generation.
    You guys will probably pay a lot more in the future. =(
    This is an era where we have to give more and receive less.

    I know that people need health care.
    I understand you guys because I know a couple of my
    friends who are not covered by any health insurance.
    Let alone they find specific jobs just to get benefits
    instead of the actual net income.

    I don't know what I would do without military benefits.
    If the government touches Tricare, I'd probably be a felon. LOL...JOKE.
    I'd probably looking for a job that can provide me their premium.

    I have not seen a civilian doctor since I can remember so I may not relate to anyone elses experience, because I usually go to a doctor on base anywhere. So you guys can fill me in stories how that usually goes for you guys. =) I'd like to know some.
    the lovely miss keri hilson - - -

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  14. #14
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    I like my health-care plan and I don't want it to change and i want the government to stay out of it.



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Show View Post
    Homework for you, TechCNgod: walk into your local ER, and if you can find a health care employee not busy then ask them what they think. Ask a couple doctors, a couple nurses, maybe a couple paramedics while you're at it. As people actively working in the health care system what they think about the health care system, and about the proposed fixes. You're very willing to rant off of one sentence without considering the broader scope of that sentence. I strongly suspect that you aren't aware of what all the proposed fixes will and won't do, or what the short- and long-term ramifications will be.

    "If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions..."


    Bad Memory
    Why did I have a feeling you were going to respond like that?
    A. there are 300 million in America, this adds 30 million to insurance. In other words only 10% of our current maxium.
    B. it may seem like a lot but a lot of the bill is targeted to PREVENTION! In other words people wont need to go as often AFTER they get sick, if they can stop it from happing in the first place by paid regular check ups!
    C. Your point would hold water if the bill did not have prevention, and medical care jobs included but last time I checked it did!
    D. Only adding 10% of our max population, prevention will be more focused, more people can have health care and regular check ups thus as you said the long term is what needs to be looked at, and thats what this bill does!!!
    E. If you have not noticed that right now medical fields have a lack of employment, BUT it is also one of the fast growing feilds due to a need for those jobs, we might have too many later. So looking towards the long term there is no over load.

    There is no worry in the long term.
    There will be enough jobs.
    It cuts cost.

    You are the one that needs to look at this bill. I dont mean really look at it just do some research. You think that people did not think all those points through? it has been debated and refined for a long time. Health care reform movment is older than me.
    @Ayame: You can keep your plan, this is for people that want it. You will not be forced to accept it.
    @Vyndrasta: my health care works fine for me, just like you, but I know too many people where they get cancer and dropped. It is when you need it most that they drop you. The bill WILL NOT touch your millitary health plans.
    Last edited by Battler Ushiromiya; 03-10-2010 at 01:10 AM.

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  16. #16
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    Look, the main reason you think the current health care system is so bad is because the media and the president are constantly talking about how bad it is. The politicians have their agenda and the media needs to have something bad to report. I'm not saying what we have is perfect, and yet I'm content with it because I don't buy into all the media BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechCNgod View Post
    @Vyndrasta: my health care works fine for me, just like you, but I know too many people where they get cancer and dropped. It is when you need it most that they drop you. The bill WILL NOT touch your millitary health plans.
    True.
    But I was just saying that if they ever did touch Tricare, I'd be mad. LOL

    I'll fill you guys in the military side.
    The problem that had risen was this:
    -Military spouses being treated as civilian patients. Meaning, they don't get priorities, while those in uniforms do.

    This has been a long long long debate. Some say that it's unfair, and others say that's its ONLY fair because after all, they don't wear the uniform/serving the country and they're ONLY married in papers (documents for other benefits).

    That's all I can think of for now.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    Look, the main reason you think the current health care system is so bad is because the media and the president are constantly talking about how bad it is. The politicians have their agenda and the media needs to have something bad to report. I'm not saying what we have is perfect, and yet I'm content with it because I don't buy into all the media BS.
    On the flip side the media arguments against the reform can be pretty bogus too. They argue as if the reform is some sort of communist plot and that government involvement into the health care will be like something out of the USSR. They`ve even painted Canada`s system to be like that, where you don`t even choose your own doctor. That is a load of BS.

    Personally I don`t really care about the reform since it doesn`t affect me. All I have to say that is that I don`t think regulating, organizing, and administrating such a fundamental right she be left up to private business because then health becomes a business and is treated as one. Perhaps entire government involvement may not work for the United States (although I have no problem with them being involved, generally speaking), so maybe a two tier system could be in the works - that way you get best of both worlds.

    I also have to say that if I ever had the option to move to the United States I wouldn`t even give it a thought. I don`t agree with the way health care and other things are run there, so I`d be better not to live there. I`ll just visit from time to time.
    "A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechCNgod View Post
    Why did I have a feeling you were going to respond like that?
    A. there are 300 million in America, this adds 30 million to insurance. In other words only 10% of our current maxium.
    B. it may seem like a lot but a lot of the bill is targeted to PREVENTION! In other words people wont need to go as often AFTER they get sick, if they can stop it from happing in the first place by paid regular check ups!
    C. Your point would hold water if the bill did not have prevention, and medical care jobs included but last time I checked it did!
    D. Only adding 10% of our max population, prevention will be more focused, more people can have health care and regular check ups thus as you said the long term is what needs to be looked at, and thats what this bill does!!!
    E. If you have not noticed that right now medical fields have a lack of employment, BUT it is also one of the fast growing feilds due to a need for those jobs, we might have too many later. So looking towards the long term there is no over load.

    There is no worry in the long term.
    There will be enough jobs.
    It cuts cost.

    You are the one that needs to look at this bill. I dont mean really look at it just do some research. You think that people did not think all those points through? it has been debated and refined for a long time. Health care reform movment is older than me.
    @Ayame: You can keep your plan, this is for people that want it. You will not be forced to accept it.
    @Vyndrasta: my health care works fine for me, just like you, but I know too many people where they get cancer and dropped. It is when you need it most that they drop you. The bill WILL NOT touch your millitary health plans.
    Using the wording of the proposal, where does it aim for prevention rather than reaction?

    Using the wording in the proposal, explain how this will magically add 10% of the US population to insurance, what the demographics are for this 10%.

    Using the wording of the proposal, how will it create more jobs?

    Last question: what gives the US gov't the legal authority to mandate bad/risky business practices on companies?


    I'm no expert and don't work in the medical field, but I work beside, and in my major regularly interact, with those who do. Doc's in the Southeast don't want this to go through in any variety. Why? What do they know that we laymen don't?

    I recommend not reading summaries and read the wording of the bill(s) in question before getting too comfortable on that soap box.



    Bad Memory

  21. #21
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    Just in case anyone was curious, here is the link to the House version of the bill:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_232206.html

    Best thing I could find other than something you have to Download. Just scroll down a little past the blah blah to read the first 400 pages of the bill.

    I'll keep looking to see if I can find more/better info on the bill.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisaDANGerous View Post
    Simple, do like they do with taxes. If the poor need it, give it to them. Let the rich pay a little for theirs.
    I've gotta say that this is exactly what should happen. Think about it. If a person can't pay for a life-saving operation, this person should still have the right to have their life saved. Just because you have don't money doesn't mean you should be denied Health Care.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Evil View Post
    I've gotta say that this is exactly what should happen. Think about it. If a person can't pay for a life-saving operation, this person should still have the right to have their life saved. Just because you have don't money doesn't mean you should be denied Health Care.
    But why is it right to have people who have nothing to do with you be forced to pay? The people who have worked for their entire lives to get rich shouldn't have to pay for the people who don't work.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimi no kioku View Post
    But why is it right to have people who have nothing to do with you be forced to pay? The people who have worked for their entire lives to get rich shouldn't have to pay for the people who don't work.
    Let me ask you a question. If someone was attacked in open daylight and suddenly need serious help, wouldn't it be wrong if everyone just looked the other way and went about their day because it "wasn't their problem"?

    That's why taxes exist; because we can't simply depend on people to do the right thing. Clearly since the rich are already taken care of, it just makes since that they would be taxed the most. You wouldn't tax the poor more, because they have it hard enough as it is.

    And to your point that "for the people who don't work" is incorrect. Most all people who can't afford health insurance don't, not because they refuse to work, but because that's the maxium amount that they can make and it's just not enough to pay for the insurance without sacrificing things like- food.

    You want to know why those poor people can't make more money? It's because in capitalism, the rich can be rich because they soak up the money and place the burden of on the people who are already having a hard time- and theyby making even harder.

    So yes, the rich need to pay more to help spread the wealth because they're not going to do it just because we ask really nicely.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericgamer1 View Post
    Let me ask you a question. If someone was attacked in open daylight and suddenly need serious help, wouldn't it be wrong if everyone just looked the other way and went about their day because it "wasn't their problem"?

    That's why taxes exist; because we can't simply depend on people to do the right thing. Clearly since the rich are already taken care of, it just makes since that they would be taxed the most. You wouldn't tax the poor more, because they have it hard enough as it is.

    And to your point that "for the people who don't work" is incorrect. Most all people who can't afford health insurance don't, not because they refuse to work, but because that's the maxium amount that they can make and it's just not enough to pay for the insurance without sacrificing things like- food.

    You want to know why those poor people can't make more money? It's because in capitalism, the rich can be rich because they soak up the money and place the burden of on the people who are already having a hard time- and theyby making even harder.

    So yes, the rich need to pay more to help spread the wealth because they're not going to do it just because we ask really nicely.
    This. Its, again, why we have taxes.

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