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Thread: Health care in America.

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  1. #1
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    Default Health care in America.

    No the "in amercia" was not ment to be a andit keith joke.
    Talk about your views.
    Yes I know it is a touchy subject at the moment but that should not stop us from talking about it.
    I will not take to kindly to trolls in this thread. ^^

    My views are....
    I believe that government should not control business, but I also agree that business should not contol us. What I mean is that insurance companies should not be able to charge us whatever they will. We are dependent on them for the most part. It is wrong what they do. Government should be watchful of insurance companies.
    I think that more should be done to give us the people a say in what we pay for insurance. This can be done by making them work for our money. This can be done by having a government run health care. Not control the insurance companies but making a seprate business that take customers from them. Ups, ect... are able to out do the USPS, so why not insurance companies?
    They charge so much because even if they lose you as a customer they more than make up for it from the ones that stay. they dont care about you, end of story.
    When you get sick they drop you. Not all the time, but first reason they have they drop you. Even if it ha nothing to do with the reason you are sick. That is just evil. This goes far above "wanting to make a buck",they are not even thinking about you as a person, just as another sucker that might pay them.
    Even though I do not agree with everything in the health care reform bill, I do think it is needed. It WILL cut cost over the long term, both directly and indirectly. If people pay less for insurance and dont go into debt from health care bills as often then they can spend more. Simple as that. Not hard to understand at all now is it?
    Now I heard that there is something in the health care bill that sounds really bad, but... I thought about it more and did research. What was so bad was.... forcing people to go on health care if they have none. This only applies to those that can afford it though. This really does help... as long as the way that this is determinded is not complicated and full of flaws. We can always fix it if it is, becuase this is still 1000 times better than what we have.
    Ill practice has also been in the bill. This made me very happy that we are doing something about all the people that "skim a little pff the top". This will also cut cost. $1000 for a tooth brush? really? Oh I am being charged for the same thing 4 times? I think not.



    The list goes on and on. But now I will leave some room for you to talk. talk about anything "health care" related. Not even the bill, just anything..... in america..... I just had to.

    The seven stakes of purgatory! ^^ Good thing to know that they will be the last thing you see before you die. ^^

  2. #2
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    I`m from Canada and I love my health care system <3
    "A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."

  3. #3
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    TL;DR, your mistake is relying on the government to keep an eye on corporate insurance for us. They'll never do that. Since they're so anxious to discard all responsibility on corporations, it's clear they don't care about us at all. And once private insurance companies will be given control, there's no telling them what to charge you and how to deal with you, they'll do whatever the hell they want, and what they want is the typical: Maximum payment for Minimal (Zero is the preferred) service.
    Last edited by DOOM!; 03-09-2010 at 02:39 PM.


  4. #4
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    My attempt to take on the tl;dr.
    Quote Originally Posted by TechCNgod View Post
    My views are....
    I believe that government should not control business, but I also agree that business should not contol us.
    But government needs to control some business in order to be a government. Getting rid of all control is basically anarchism.

    What I mean is that insurance companies should not be able to charge us whatever they will. We are dependent on them for the most part. It is wrong what they do. Government should be watchful of insurance companies.
    I think that more should be done to give us the people a say in what we pay for insurance. This can be done by making them work for our money. This can be done by having a government run health care. Not control the insurance companies but making a seprate business that take customers from them. Ups, ect... are able to out do the USPS, so why not insurance companies?
    A company has one priority and one priority only--> to make money. It is an unfeeling uncompasionate machine. Whenever it sees an oppertunity to make money, it does so. No company works for free (unless it's a non-profit or other such exception); which even in that case still needs to make money to suvive.
    They charge so much because even if they lose you as a customer they more than make up for it from the ones that stay. they dont care about you, end of story.
    When you get sick they drop you. Not all the time, but first reason they have they drop you. Even if it ha nothing to do with the reason you are sick. That is just evil. This goes far above "wanting to make a buck",they are not even thinking about you as a person, just as another sucker that might pay them.
    Not evil, just business as usual- it's not their fault, that just how it works. It may be wrong what they're doing, but they're not going to stop doing it if they're making money because that is how a business operates. That's why we need rules and regulation to be put in place by laws to prevent abuses.

    Even though I do not agree with everything in the health care reform bill, I do think it is needed. It WILL cut cost over the long term, both directly and indirectly. If people pay less for insurance and dont go into debt from health care bills as often then they can spend more. Simple as that. Not hard to understand at all now is it?
    Basically what I said above about using hard law to prevent abuse.

    Now I heard that there is something in the health care bill that sounds really bad, but... I thought about it more and did research. What was so bad was.... forcing people to go on health care if they have none. This only applies to those that can afford it though. This really does help... as long as the way that this is determinded is not complicated and full of flaws. We can always fix it if it is, becuase this is still 1000 times better than what we have.
    Ding ding ding, we have a winner. This isn't the first reform bill to health care, and it sure as hell won't be the last. But to do nothing is irresponisble and incompetent- regaurdless of your ideology.

    Ill practice has also been in the bill. This made me very happy that we are doing something about all the people that "skim a little pff the top". This will also cut cost. $1000 for a tooth brush? really? Oh I am being charged for the same thing 4 times? I think not.
    Just one example of the things insurance companies are able to slip through the cracks. Glad that it's going to be taken care of.


    The list goes on and on. But now I will leave some room for you to talk. talk about anything "health care" related. Not even the bill, just anything..... in america..... I just had to.
    Well, I would like to see the public option put back into the bill, I really would.

    "anything in america"? Hmm, how about let's.. take it one thread at a time here.

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  5. #5
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    I'm from America and I love my health care system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    I'm from America and I love my health care system.
    exactly. i like healthcare and insurance the way it is now. it should never be changed.

    "Thinking of you, where ever you are..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverwings1415 View Post
    exactly. i like healthcare and insurance the way it is now. it should never be changed.
    Really?
    What about denying you treatment due to preexistent condition? Or the 30% overhead? Or the 30 million uninsured?

    The US has the best medical technology and the best physicians and hospitals, but at a price too high for many Americans, and we aren't any healthier for it. We don't have the highest life expectancy nor the lowest infant mortality rates.

    Though I blame it all on the food and consuming culture. Good health starts at the personal (not legislative) branch.

    A health care bill that doesn't address what we consume, isn't gonna work.

    I have nothing against private insurance, but I have a problem with them trying to deny me treatment. Been there done that. It is not my wallet that's hurting, it is me.

    I'm moving to Hawaii.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post
    Really?
    What about denying you treatment due to preexistent condition? Or the 30% overhead? Or the 30 million uninsured?

    The US has the best medical technology and the best physicians and hospitals, but at a price too high for many Americans, and we aren't any healthier for it. We don't have the highest life expectancy nor the lowest infant mortality rates.

    Though I blame it all on the food and consuming culture. Good health starts at the personal (not legislative) branch.

    A health care bill that doesn't address what we consume, isn't gonna work.

    I have nothing against private insurance, but I have a problem with them trying to deny me treatment. Been there done that. It is not my wallet that's hurting, it is me.

    I'm moving to Hawaii.
    I would not say it would not ork to some point but ya we need all issues taken care of.
    Though I dont think what we eat should be in this bill. That should be for another time. ( Oh god didI just say that? )
    By another time I mean not mixed in the the bill, but something else in the near future.
    I know it is somes choice what they eat but it is interesting that many poor people can't afford good food, but the cheap fatty stuff.
    Sad I am one of those people. I do eat many things/fatty stuff but I am still in control. Now and then I lose weight to put myself back down the a certain weight so ya unlike many I control it as easy as could be. I enjoy food and knowingly take risk of eatting a lot. I also work out everyday, and every few month I go on a week of weight loss so i can get back down.

    The seven stakes of purgatory! ^^ Good thing to know that they will be the last thing you see before you die. ^^

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAZKUL View Post
    i asked my dad about the U.S healthcare system and he told me...

    if you get hit by a car in

    America- the ambulance guys will ask if you have insurance before taking you to the hospital or somthing along those lines.

    Britain- they will take you to the hospital , no questions asked
    EMT that taught our CPR class said the trip the ambulance makes to a place is free, but the ride back to hospital is $5,000. And just to hang a bag of 1,000 mL NaCl is $200 (its standard IV solution for hydration).

    Don't know what but someone need to stop the bad persons in charge of these kinds of decisions. Don't care what kind a reform but it's a rip off
    After more research it was determined that 2012 was the end of twinkies.


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    I'm from America and I love my health care system.
    Exactly. I don't really think we need to change it.
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    @ericgamer: Glad to see a detailed post.
    1. Control and regulation are 2 different things. They can cross some times but there is a line that I see. Maybe it is just my own way of explaining it that is the issue thats all. Control = saying what you can and can not do. Regulation = limits to protect the people.
    Thats my way of seeing it, thats all.
    2. Yes a company does need money, thats what it is there for. Tell me what are yor feelings on a monopoly? Thats almost what insurace companies have. there is a reason we take steps to avoid it. You see though we hear of insurance companies all the time it does not mean we have a choice between them. They all do the same thing. When you quit 1 you have only 2 options.
    A. Dont get insurance.
    B. Go to another insurance company.
    I love that choice. A lose-lose situation always makes me wake up happy.

    Also as I said before there is "Making a buck", and " doing everything in your power to line your pockets with gold knowing other are suffering for it". Ethics is an issue to me, though it is a tricky issue. because these people think of nothing but themself others suffer. They also do not think in the long term. It was their actions that pushed healthcare reform to the point it is at now.
    3. Yes but what I was pointing out is you can pay to them your whole life and then when you need thier end of the deal to come through they drop you, and keep your money. People die because of this. Lives get ruined. I se no justic here, or anything right. I dont care if it is legal, it is wrong and needs change.
    4. Ok, but I was touching on the bill not insurance companies.
    5. Never say never. I learned that the hard way. ^^ I agree doing nothing is bad. What is even worse though is that some not only do nothing, but try and block his bill just because it might be a victory for te other side. They add nothing, nor do they help, they just block and slow the nation down.
    6. Yes I am glad as well, they leave few subjects un touched in the bill.
    7. Yes I would like to see the public option back as well. I think it will be in the final bill though. the whole up or down vote thing is not for the final bill, it is for amendments to the final bill AFTER it passed. In other words if things change a little it CAN end up in the bill.
    8. ( I am adding this. ) I love the public option if done right. I see few ways it can be screwed up. It gives us negotiating power over insurance companies, and that is what we needed all along.

    @Wio: You love it because it works for you. That is not true for everyone. You have to give more than you think toinsurance companies. Your tax dollars...
    Yes some of your taxes go to them to stop some of thier wrong practices.... we all see how that went..... fail.
    Last edited by Battler Ushiromiya; 03-09-2010 at 04:17 PM.

    The seven stakes of purgatory! ^^ Good thing to know that they will be the last thing you see before you die. ^^

  12. #12
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    Simple, do like they do with taxes. If the poor need it, give it to them. Let the rich pay a little for theirs.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisaDANGerous View Post
    Simple, do like they do with taxes. If the poor need it, give it to them. Let the rich pay a little for theirs.
    I've gotta say that this is exactly what should happen. Think about it. If a person can't pay for a life-saving operation, this person should still have the right to have their life saved. Just because you have don't money doesn't mean you should be denied Health Care.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Evil View Post
    I've gotta say that this is exactly what should happen. Think about it. If a person can't pay for a life-saving operation, this person should still have the right to have their life saved. Just because you have don't money doesn't mean you should be denied Health Care.
    But why is it right to have people who have nothing to do with you be forced to pay? The people who have worked for their entire lives to get rich shouldn't have to pay for the people who don't work.
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    I can't think of any that come to mind at the moment, but my default response to a personal attack is "Your dog has hepatitas". It doesn't work all the time, but hoo-boy when it does, it works wonders.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimi no kioku View Post
    But why is it right to have people who have nothing to do with you be forced to pay? The people who have worked for their entire lives to get rich shouldn't have to pay for the people who don't work.
    Let me ask you a question. If someone was attacked in open daylight and suddenly need serious help, wouldn't it be wrong if everyone just looked the other way and went about their day because it "wasn't their problem"?

    That's why taxes exist; because we can't simply depend on people to do the right thing. Clearly since the rich are already taken care of, it just makes since that they would be taxed the most. You wouldn't tax the poor more, because they have it hard enough as it is.

    And to your point that "for the people who don't work" is incorrect. Most all people who can't afford health insurance don't, not because they refuse to work, but because that's the maxium amount that they can make and it's just not enough to pay for the insurance without sacrificing things like- food.

    You want to know why those poor people can't make more money? It's because in capitalism, the rich can be rich because they soak up the money and place the burden of on the people who are already having a hard time- and theyby making even harder.

    So yes, the rich need to pay more to help spread the wealth because they're not going to do it just because we ask really nicely.

    ^by Hakuchuumu^

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisaDANGerous View Post
    Simple, do like they do with taxes. If the poor need it, give it to them. Let the rich pay a little for theirs.
    Hey, communism. So, you're saying that if you work for your whole life, and then you succeed and make money and get a livelihood, then you should take your wealth, and give it to someone who won't work for it? If money is handed to you, then you will never work for it.

    This is the exact same thing that they did in the Soviet Union, and look what happened to them.
    No offense, of course.
    it hurts it hurts it hurts it hurts

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked Eden View Post
    Hey, communism. So, you're saying that if you work for your whole life, and then you succeed and make money and get a livelihood, then you should take your wealth, and give it to someone who won't work for it? If money is handed to you, then you will never work for it.

    This is the exact same thing that they did in the Soviet Union, and look what happened to them.
    No offense, of course.
    -.-
    Calling someone a communist? Really? Your a child right?
    A. You can work for your whole life and still be dirt poor. Tell me is a factory worker rich? I think not. Did someone that won the lotto work for it? I think not
    B. The wealthy have had tax cuts with the train of thought of "it running down the pipe to the poor", and it did not work. So now what? 3 things ....
    * tax them normaly, and make them pay =. This sounds fair but it is not. By pay = I mean =. ( yes I am too lazy to spell. ) A poor man pays $10 of his $50 paycheck and a rich man pays $10 out of his $100,000. The amount is fair but not the %.
    * Raise taxes so that % is higher than the poor, but I am against this.
    * Make % =. That sounds fair. Why?
    Both the poor and rich have little left to cry about. =% is true fairness. The rich give more, but still keep thier fair share without over taxing. the poor know the rich pay more but it s what hey would pay if they had an = paycheck. This also brings in money for our government.
    Poor would not be over taxed.
    Rich would not be under taxed.
    the government would have greater income with little change and balance needed btween rich and poor taxes.
    HOWEVER
    Taxes that are additions would still maintain value of today.

    It is not wrong to ask the upper class to pay thier fair share if they wil not spend it, only wrong to over do it.
    No it is not the same thing as the SU. Look in a history book and learn ALL aspects of what destroyed the SU.
    @forgotten show: *facepalm*
    You said it yourself. Not even the ones tha vote on the bill are able to read it in a short time, or over night, so you wanted me to go through it and reply?
    At this point I would post the "objection" motivational poster but I dont even see it as worth while.
    Oh and when did you decide what government is for? You cant stand losing can you? ( on that one point at least you have. )
    Last edited by Battler Ushiromiya; 03-10-2010 at 11:43 PM.

    The seven stakes of purgatory! ^^ Good thing to know that they will be the last thing you see before you die. ^^

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechCNgod View Post
    @forgotten show: *facepalm*
    You said it yourself. Not even the ones tha vote on the bill are able to read it in a short time, or over night, so you wanted me to go through it and reply?
    I don't know how many times I have to say it or in how many ways. Bad crap gets snuck in through big bills and via smaller bills piggy-backing big bills. I want to know what you say is there is actually there. If you don't see the problem with huge bills that nobody is reading being passed, and if you won't back up your statements with proof, then there's no point in discussing it with you.


    Oh and when did you decide what government is for?
    I didn't. What I described is how the government was designed to work by the people who designed it. I have my own ideas about how governments should work, but not one of them were included in this topic.


    GAZKUL, you are entitled to your opinion. I have a few of my own about the affairs of your country, including about your health care (that not all Brits are as pleased with as you are). But more to the point, you're overlooking a number of fundamental differences between your country and mine that our respective opinions have nothing to do with. Britain has only less than 20% of the population and just over 2% of the land mass of the US. Britain's constitutional monarchy and parliament are different from the federalist government of the United States and its fifty states. The economic structures of the two countries are vastly different. It is simply not reasonable to expect what works for Britain will work for the United States.


    Bad Memory

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked Eden View Post
    This is the exact same thing that they did in the Soviet Union, and look what happened to them.
    No offense, of course.
    That's due in part because the system was blanketed over the entire economy structure.

    If it was limited just to healthcare, it would probably work.

    ^by Hakuchuumu^

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericgamer1 View Post
    That's due in part because the system was blanketed over the entire economy structure.

    If it was limited just to healthcare, it would probably work.
    But how long after health care do you think it will take for that to happen?

    The Government thinks that we can't handle our own lives. They think they have to take care of us. That's wrong. The Government should not give us everything. If the Government gives people money and healthcare and everything else, why work? The economy wouldn't get any better. This isn't really directed at you Ericgamer1.

    I agree mostly with GAZKUL.
    So many people say that your healthcare is bad, and yet you say it is great and we should have it as well? I think that says a lot, thanks.
    But not everyone is the UK thinks that way. It's like Forgotten Snow said. It wouldn't work. That's not the same type of Government we have. Not to mention that most people that I see don't want this healthcare plan. That's going against the will of the people, thus it's not a very American thing to do.

    Also I think the stim bill also made this bill look bad even though it is working just find.
    The stimulus bill is working just fine? I never heard of that. Unless that's not what you're talking about.


    I have recently transformed into a defender of the mentally ill. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

  21. #21
    Senior Member Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericgamer1 View Post
    That's due in part because the system was blanketed over the entire economy structure.

    If it was limited just to healthcare, it would probably work.
    Perhaps in a similar manner to the way Social Security is working out
    Just pointing out that Health Care reform is far from the only socialist program we have here in the US

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechCNgod View Post
    @Wio: You love it because it works for you. That is not true for everyone. You have to give more than you think toinsurance companies. Your tax dollars...
    The irony in this argument is it is often used to justify a system that takes away what is working for some folks for something that will, in all likelihood, not work for anyone. Just. Sayin'.

    We discussed this not so long ago; one, two months maybe? A decent discussion was had there. The search feature is recommended.


    Bad Memory

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Show View Post
    The irony in this argument is it is often used to justify a system that takes away what is working for some folks for something that will, in all likelihood, not work for anyone. Just. Sayin'.

    We discussed this not so long ago; one, two months maybe? A decent discussion was had there. The search feature is recommended.


    Bad Memory
    You do understand that the tax dollars I talk about is the ones that we give to insurance companies that dont need them, right?
    How is giving tax money to a alredy filthy rich company going to help? If the bill passes and stops giving them this money, and they decide to go nuts and raise rates they can go out of business, how you may ask? Simple part of the bill will add a government element the will have to do business with and work for our money.
    Giving tax money to insurance companies do work for some people..... the insurance companies..... not everyday people. Just because things are working for you does not mean taking this money away from the insurance companies will effect you.
    Here I will put it in simple terms.
    "Stop giving them free money and put that money where it should go.... to the country, and people."
    I dont care if there was a thread about whatever you were talking about because you missed the whole point and prolly did not understand what tax dollars are being spent on the insurance companies or even why.

    @ All that think things are fine. : Yes it is fine for you, and if the bill passes things will remain the same, and they can raise your rates at will, and deny coverage when you get sick. There are many other people out there beside you! People that have conditions, ect... They get the short end of the stick. I must admit that right now it works for me but I am not so blind or iggnorant that iggnore the suffering of others.
    Last edited by Battler Ushiromiya; 03-09-2010 at 09:36 PM.

    The seven stakes of purgatory! ^^ Good thing to know that they will be the last thing you see before you die. ^^

  24. #24
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    Homework for you, TechCNgod: walk into your local ER, and if you can find a health care employee not busy then ask them what they think. Ask a couple doctors, a couple nurses, maybe a couple paramedics while you're at it. As people actively working in the health care system what they think about the health care system, and about the proposed fixes. You're very willing to rant off of one sentence without considering the broader scope of that sentence. I strongly suspect that you aren't aware of what all the proposed fixes will and won't do, or what the short- and long-term ramifications will be.

    "If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions..."


    Bad Memory

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Show View Post
    Homework for you, TechCNgod: walk into your local ER, and if you can find a health care employee not busy then ask them what they think. Ask a couple doctors, a couple nurses, maybe a couple paramedics while you're at it. As people actively working in the health care system what they think about the health care system, and about the proposed fixes. You're very willing to rant off of one sentence without considering the broader scope of that sentence. I strongly suspect that you aren't aware of what all the proposed fixes will and won't do, or what the short- and long-term ramifications will be.

    "If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions..."


    Bad Memory
    Why did I have a feeling you were going to respond like that?
    A. there are 300 million in America, this adds 30 million to insurance. In other words only 10% of our current maxium.
    B. it may seem like a lot but a lot of the bill is targeted to PREVENTION! In other words people wont need to go as often AFTER they get sick, if they can stop it from happing in the first place by paid regular check ups!
    C. Your point would hold water if the bill did not have prevention, and medical care jobs included but last time I checked it did!
    D. Only adding 10% of our max population, prevention will be more focused, more people can have health care and regular check ups thus as you said the long term is what needs to be looked at, and thats what this bill does!!!
    E. If you have not noticed that right now medical fields have a lack of employment, BUT it is also one of the fast growing feilds due to a need for those jobs, we might have too many later. So looking towards the long term there is no over load.

    There is no worry in the long term.
    There will be enough jobs.
    It cuts cost.

    You are the one that needs to look at this bill. I dont mean really look at it just do some research. You think that people did not think all those points through? it has been debated and refined for a long time. Health care reform movment is older than me.
    @Ayame: You can keep your plan, this is for people that want it. You will not be forced to accept it.
    @Vyndrasta: my health care works fine for me, just like you, but I know too many people where they get cancer and dropped. It is when you need it most that they drop you. The bill WILL NOT touch your millitary health plans.
    Last edited by Battler Ushiromiya; 03-10-2010 at 01:10 AM.

    The seven stakes of purgatory! ^^ Good thing to know that they will be the last thing you see before you die. ^^

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