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Thread: Does anyone else...?

  1. #1
    Junior Member ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise's Avatar
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    Default Does anyone else...?

    Does anyone else find that ultimately, the anime-style of drawing is both over-used and vastly limits a person's creative potential? At some point, people have to realize that women don't actually look like that and not all men have hair that looks like K2. Not to mention that it's now showing up in American media; it's just kind of stupid and dated looking. Too many people out there seem to think that being able to draw people with large eyes and pointy chins makes them a "artist". I had a floor mate that seemed to think that half the crap on deviant art was better than the art created by Hieronymus Bosch's work. I challenge you people to think and work outside the box.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall's Avatar
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    While I enjoy anime art, and find it really interesting it's certainly not "fine art".
    It's nothing I'd pay more than 5 dollars for, and it would have to be something astounding to get 5 bucks out of me.
    Personally, drawing anime ultimately made it easier for me to gateway into more realistic stuff. Too many people get stuck in it though, that's for sure.



  3. #3
    Senior Member Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChernobylSunrise View Post
    Does anyone else find that ultimately, the anime-style of drawing is both over-used and vastly limits a person's creative potential? At some point, people have to realize that women don't actually look like that and not all men have hair that looks like K2. Not to mention that it's now showing up in American media; it's just kind of stupid and dated looking. Too many people out there seem to think that being able to draw people with large eyes and pointy chins makes them a "artist". I had a floor mate that seemed to think that half the crap on deviant art was better than the art created by Hieronymus Bosch's work. I challenge you people to think and work outside the box.

    You seem like you believe you know how art should be. Who cares if there are people out there that consider large eyes and pointed chins art. Art can be anything and everything.. Art is about expressing one's ability to create. It does not matter what it is, just how it makes you feel. Stop being such a critic it makes you seem bitter. Grow up and pop that ego of yours.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall's Avatar
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    I wonder if you've ever heard of "art critics" they get paid to be critical.

    Anywho I think you certainly have to draw a line between what is art and what isn't.
    For example, if someone throws paint on a canvas with no intention, that isn't art. It's the result of boredum and a lack of creation. Jackson Pollock, that's a different story.

    And from a skill standpoint anime is a lot easier than more realistic things.



  5. #5
    Captain No Pants Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChernobylSunrise View Post
    Does anyone else find that ultimately, the anime-style of drawing is both over-used and vastly limits a person's creative potential? At some point, people have to realize that women don't actually look like that and not all men have hair that looks like K2. Not to mention that it's now showing up in American media; it's just kind of stupid and dated looking. Too many people out there seem to think that being able to draw people with large eyes and pointy chins makes them a "artist". I had a floor mate that seemed to think that half the crap on deviant art was better than the art created by Hieronymus Bosch's work. I challenge you people to think and work outside the box.
    *thinks* Yea, I've noticed that a lot on Cartoon network. =P
    But, I think it's still art. I think that part of art is being able to tell a story with it. I don't like comparing art because people are different with how they show it. Of course, I do admit that a lot of it starts to look the same after a while. What puts it apart is the story behind it (or the story it tells if you want to put it that way) and it's creator. *shrugs* Of course, who am I to say?


  6. #6
    Senior Member Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolley View Post
    I wonder if you've ever heard of "art critics" they get paid to be critical.

    Anywho I think you certainly have to draw a line between what is art and what isn't.
    For example, if someone throws paint on a canvas with no intention, that isn't art. It's the result of boredum and a lack of creation. Jackson Pollock, that's a different story.

    And from a skill standpoint anime is a lot easier than more realistic things.
    I hate to disappoint you but not everyone believes there is a line that separates what is art and what it is not.
    Everyone is different and sees the world in different ways. Some share more common interests then
    others, but that does not mean everyone does. Its okay to like something that is not seemingly realistic to another individual's perspective. Art can be anything. So to think you know this so called line is in fact a figment of your imagination. hey and that too can be considered as some form of art.
    Last edited by Inamorata; 11-28-2009 at 10:08 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall's Avatar
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    Well in my humble opinion, people who lack the ability to discern between existence, boredum, and art, tend to be completely immature :/

    Btw don't pull that "figment of your imagination" psuedo-philosophical garbage on me please? It's insulting.


    Definition of art : the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
    Last edited by Annie Hall; 11-28-2009 at 10:18 PM.



  8. #8
    Senior Member Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolley View Post
    Well in my humble opinion, people who lack the ability to discern between existence, boredum, and art, tend to be completely immature :/

    Btw don't pull that "figment of your imagination" psuedo-philosophical garbage on me please? It's insulting.


    Definition of art : the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
    okay and anime does not fall into that category?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall has a reputation beyond repute Annie Hall's Avatar
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    It really depends on the anime.



  10. #10
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    i think it is over used in the saturday morning american kid cartoon sense of it.

  11. #11
    Junior Member ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise is infamous around these parts ChernobylSunrise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inamorata View Post
    You seem like you believe you know how art should be. Who cares if there are people out there that consider large eyes and pointed chins art. Art can be anything and everything.. Art is about expressing one's ability to create. It does not matter what it is, just how it makes you feel. Stop being such a critic it makes you seem bitter. Grow up and pop that ego of yours.
    And your words make you seem overly-hostile and prone a knee-jerk reaction due to inner insecurities. Look, I can play the game too. Considering that one of my degrees is in Art History, I do know what art is.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata has a reputation beyond repute Inamorata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChernobylSunrise View Post
    And your words make you seem overly-hostile and prone a knee-jerk reaction due to inner insecurities. Look, I can play the game too. Considering that one of my degrees is in Art History, I do know what art is.
    Oh yes, I am very hostile.. o_O um but the knee jerk thing due to inner
    insecurities you may need to further explain. I can't see how my opinion
    on what art is has anything to do with my insecurities. Plus I felt very
    confident in stating my opinion. ^.~ So that there assures you I have
    a good handle on what I have been stating. Oh and congrats on your
    degrees. o.o;

  13. #13
    Senior Member brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID is infamous around these parts brokenORCHID's Avatar
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    What about the 'No ghost just a shell' exhibit.

    The problem with all forms of art is when people are afraid to try something they criticise others for doing it.

    Bottom line is that it is widely considered artistic and yes it is very over used.With that said the people who try to push the boundaries of animation are without question artist but the average 'Deviantartist' is not(This refers solely to those who use phcs/painterx etc to copy someones work rather than make create their own)

    PS; I have no gripe with digital artist who use programs such as these.
    ........Never have a whole life,always broken......

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    personally, im tired of going onto da and looking at horribly recreated anime wannabe pieces

    its a frigging joke, sure it may be considered art but it for the most part is far from creative since the style has been so over done to the point of it being "just make it look cute or something and it will sell"

    if you look at older western cartoons, you can pick out all sorts of diversities and differences in style
    when you look at anime, most of it is rehashed style that simply lacks any innovation or willing to break free of the mold it's established. subtle differences sure, but nothing ground breaking

    i want individuality and emotion put into artwork, thank you very much


  15. #15
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    ohh!it so amazing this forum it so creative the paste cut of the cartoon or anime is so nice the conpetitor is normal who is the best one no anyone else almost the same good idea

  16. #16
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    truth is all you need to be an artist now is the right degree, a good story for the piece, and a good name. Ive seen some stuff that's been passed as art and i wouldn't pay more than ten bucks for it. but then again I'm talking about abstract art and i never really cared for it in the first place. So just thought id put my opinion out there.

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  17. #17
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    I don't know anyone who is "afraid" to try drawing anime, in comparison to realism and surrealism even, it's a piece of cake. IF any type of "anime" could be considered art, it would be comics like marvel and dc, since they are the most detailed I've seen.

    Also, the insecurity comment that was made? well, I'm willing to bet it's valid. Most people who would defend anime as an art are those who draw it themselves, they are insecure about having their talents demeaned. :/ So it makes sense.



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    Does it really matter if its art or not? As long as its entertaining, tells a half way decent story and looks o.k I'd say it dosen't really matter.

    Anyway art is in the eye of the beholder. I'd say manga is more art then half the rubbish that turns up at the Turner prize (sawn in half cows. Thats not really art now is it?). However compared to a Van Gogh or other old masters it isn't. This is just my opinion but I like manga not just for the drawing but the stories and characters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by naotavespaboy View Post
    Does it really matter if its art or not? As long as its entertaining, tells a half way decent story and looks o.k I'd say it dosen't really matter.

    Anyway art is in the eye of the beholder. I'd say manga is more art then half the rubbish that turns up at the Turner prize (sawn in half cows. Thats not really art now is it?). However compared to a Van Gogh or other old masters it isn't. This is just my opinion but I like manga not just for the drawing but the stories and characters.
    You're much too easy to please. It's that attitude that lets people believe that their comics/drawings are any good.

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    Well id agree with him. Anime wasn't made to be considered art. it was made to entertain. also art is all based on public and personal opinion. i say let people believe their drawings are good.

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  21. #21
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    I respect anime/manga art. I respect people who do it, and those who strive to perfect such an art form. However, what I don't like is the fact that the style have become a sorry excuse for people who dare call themselves artists even if they lack what it takes to even be one, or to even create a decent manga/anime-influenced artwork.

    For a manga artist (not to say all of them), it must be flattering, or insulting to be copied. Much worse, it would be terribly demeaning for one Japanese artist that works his butt round the clock to perfect his art style just for it to be called "pathetic" by many people all over the world, not because it is... but because there are many wannabes who give the style a bad name by doing utterly pathetic renditions of it.

    Fan art is fan art, copy all you want, just make sure you're giving justice to the artist, to the art work, the character, the style, and other what nots of what you're copying. With the style's skyrocketing popularity over the past few years, there's no doubt that many will try to jump into its bandwagon. Some of them capable, some of them potentially capable, some of them terribly NOT.

    And now i come back to what I've said earlier: "the style have become a sorry excuse..."

    You see, manga artists are trained folks. Heavily stylized their art may be, they are still masters of anatomy, facial expressions, gestures, and many other things.. and this is very evident on their works. If you can draw a cute magical girl or a pretty bishonen, does it mean you're TECHNICALLY equal with those artists? No. Does it mean you can call yourself an artist of the manga/anime style? No. Does it mean you have what it takes? No.

    Anime/manga isn't just about shimmering eyes and vibrant hair colors my friends. It's just as technically sound as the western comic styles that it has often been compared to.

    And yes, there's a line that separates what art and what isn't BUT there are two kinds of people who think otherwise:

    1. Innovators

    2. Wannabes

  22. #22
    Junior Member lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolley View Post
    I don't know anyone who is "afraid" to try drawing anime, in comparison to realism and surrealism even, it's a piece of cake. IF any type of "anime" could be considered art, it would be comics like marvel and dc, since they are the most detailed I've seen.

    Also, the insecurity comment that was made? well, I'm willing to bet it's valid. Most people who would defend anime as an art are those who draw it themselves, they are insecure about having their talents demeaned. :/ So it makes sense.
    Insecurities... seriously... I would rather put it as pride. Anime is art. Then again you might want to give your definition of "anime". Lucky Star and such... srsly... I'd puke. But it doesn't mean the artists didn't put their heart and soul into it. Shouldn't their work be respected instead of shoved aside? If you look at Jigoku Shoujo, every scene is art, it's detailed, well-thought out, flows well and simply breathtaking if you looked at it in the right way. There're elements from traditional art and many other categories. So you're saying that isn't art either? imo that wouldn't be "making anime artists insecure". That would just be "being a jerk and stepping on someone else's hard work". And that bull about "I won't pay 5 bucks for that art", I'd just say you don't appreciate art enough to see its worth. Why don't you try it out yourself? see if it's really that "easy". It's an insult to any one who's serious about drawing anime. Blaming it on our supposed "insecurities", you're just pushing your own views onto us and assuming you're omnipotent enough to know what goes on in our brains. Not cool.

  23. #23
    Junior Member rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges's Avatar
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    I took several art history classes (and I really liked Dada and I thought Dali was overrated), and with this even limited breadth of knowledge I can understand why art's rich history would refuse to accept something like "anime/manga/what have you" and so on.

    Art- what is considered to be art- has a lot of thought put into it, or no thought at all, because the lack of thought itself is what is put into question (who here has heard of Marcel Duchamp? Google him)- or no thought at all in the way of the conman.

    Art is a very nebulous word isn't it? Things you don't put thought into- your grandfather's Ensure bottle, your nephew's diaper- SOMEONE designed that. Graphic design, furniture design, architectural design. There were series of movements on everything you can't even begin to learn on a single wiki search that you think is a wealth of knowledge! Who are we to translate anything as art fully?

    BUT.

    I suppose it's because anime is so common and so easily done and often quite soulless when drawn that annoys people. To think one can make money on something that lacks feeling.

    I myself am torn on this because while I would rather have my thoughtful wrenching gut busting paintings and indulgently personal (as well as impersonal!) pieces sold, what brings home the dough is pretty boys- and boobs. Anime boobs.


    TL DR: People dislike anime because a lot of it has no thought. Read art history. The end.




    (SUPER EDIT to original poster: Oh god Hieronymus Bosch was epic.)
    Last edited by rises and converges; 12-14-2009 at 07:08 PM.

  24. #24
    Junior Member lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon has a reputation beyond repute lijon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rises and converges View Post
    I took several art history classes (and I really liked Dada and I thought Dali was overrated), and with this even limited breadth of knowledge I can understand why art's rich history would refuse to accept something like "anime/manga/what have you" and so on.

    Art- what is considered to be art- has a lot of thought put into it, or no thought at all, because the lack of thought itself is what is put into question (who here has heard of Marcel Duchamp? Google him)- or no thought at all in the way of the conman.

    Art is a very nebulous word isn't it? Things you don't put thought into- your grandfather's Ensure bottle, your nephew's diaper- SOMEONE designed that. Graphic design, furniture design, architectural design. There were series of movements on everything you can't even begin to learn on a single wiki search that you think is a wealth of knowledge! Who are we to translate anything as art fully?

    BUT.

    I suppose it's because anime is so common and so easily done and often quite soulless when drawn that annoys people. To think one can make money on something that lacks feeling.

    I myself am torn on this because while I would rather have my thoughtful wrenching gut busting paintings and indulgently personal (as well as impersonal!) pieces sold, what brings home the dough is pretty boys- and boobs. Anime boobs.


    TL DR: People dislike anime because a lot of it has no thought. Read art history. The end.




    (SUPER EDIT to original poster: Oh god Hieronymus Bosch was epic.)
    You do know what people say about history don't you? "Winners write the history" and you'd be surprised to find how many different versions of history there is. Why do you think there's so much tension between China and Taiwan (not the point don't argue back on that). In terms of credibility, I'd put history in a relatively low rank. As for soullessness, I have no idea what other artists are like, but even if the point was to make a living out of it, I believe they must have loved what they did at one point. How many people lose their passion from trying to reach deadlines? and rushing through work? It's not necessarily their fault, it's society. This is reality taking its toll.

  25. #25
    Junior Member rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges has a reputation beyond repute rises and converges's Avatar
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    I appreciate your response, lijon, but I'm afraid you missed my point.

    I mean art history in the sense that art has developed and clawed and altered its way into the present. It used to be a job, not expression, that someone would decorate a Pharaoh's tomb or decorate a church or adorn a funerary urn, not because they wanted to express themselves, but to do a job. You wouldn't want your plumber to "express themselves" in your bathroom when they're supposed to clean the drain, would you?

    THAT was what art was.

    But we've come so far, and art is so blessed with these developments- and the fact that that we are even able to discuss about what is art and what is not AT ALL is proof that we have come so far!

    And my point was (apologies in being murky in my execution) is that people don't like anime because we have come so far, only to have art that is so commonplace and so frequently copied inundate us.

    Where are our Van Goghs? Where are our Duchamps?

    They're paying loans and working dead-end jobs.

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