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Thread: *SPOILERS* The shot that killed My Love for Anime

  1. #401
    Senior Member MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy's Avatar
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    And I say that a strong commander who has defeated his most terrible enemy, his own evil desires, would be willing to do so even when it WOULD be detrimental to his cause to do so.
    No because that would.....ah how can I put it.....detrimental to his cause
    and he would simply be exploited by someone with less...shall we say bleeding hearted ideals
    Reducing the death and destruction in the war is a far more important goal than winning, no matter how important you may believe winning is.
    However you are ignoring that the best way to do this is simply to win
    Lest he be considered an evil brute by future people who have proven that his "just" cause was actually evil, and in order to teach by setting an example for future warriors
    And if he then loses because he gives up all advantage to practice free love and peace?
    What is he then?
    No matter how much he wants to wage an all-out total war to make sure that HIS cause wins.
    Whoa I never said total war
    total war is a completely different kettle of fish
    No
    As I said before the best commander is one who minimises casualties within the stategic framework
    Neither pascifist nor butcher

    You are merely assuming that a commander must be a sadistic butcher if they don't fit you goody two shows soldier mould
    That is certainly not the case
    Euphemia was the strongest commander in Code Geass
    I have only seen R1
    from that she appeared weak and indecisive and wholly unfit for any military uniform
    theoretically open the war with an attack which captured alive the entire armed forces and military and government leaders of the enemy side and thus forced them to agree to this terms.
    For this you would not only need a hugely decisive tactical/military advantage but also a hugely numerical advantage and pretty inept enemy

    Think how well Guarded the President of the USA is
    now imagine trying to capture him
    All the US Generals, Admirals, Senators, Congressmen and everyone else vital to the country as wall as every soldier and fighter
    Frankly that is a pipe dream
    If you had that kind of superiority over your opponent then you could just steamroll the opposition in a few minutes

  2. #402
    みんなで歌おうよ!
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    Awww, I missed posting the 400th post...

    Threads usually get closed when they exceed 200 posts... So congratulations proEuphie, you've probably made one of the longest threads on AF... if not ever.

    Anyways, keep on guys; only 8599 posts left until it's... you know.

  3. #403
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Oh my God...I was the 400th post!!


    Well, this is just...what is this? Is it good or just plain sad? I don't know. Let's celebrate! What would happen if Lelouch's and Euphemia's personalities were swapped? THIS!


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  4. #404
    Senior Member MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy's Avatar
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    I already covered the non-violent pre-emptive strike and the sheer impossibility of such an attack without enough superiority that you don't even need it
    And if Country B attacked he could used his already completed new weapons systems to counter the major weapons systems of Country B and probably defeat them without causing much loss of civilian lives.
    1/Asuume your guy can even gain power
    2/Assume he can gain enough power to scrap the technology
    3/Assume he CAN find a counter to the enemies developed weapons
    4/Assume a counter exists to their weapons
    5/Assume that any counter weapon will ALWAYS stop the enemies weapon (Even many counter weapons today are not 100% guaranteed to succeed
    6/Following from 5 this assumes you have some sort of technical superiority/parity capable of bridging the gap
    7/Assumes you can get this new system into production before the enemy is ready
    8/Assumes the enemy willl not just attack without the weapons before either side finishes their project
    9/You assume your guy has a stronger country

    these are the major assumptions needed for your plan to be even minimally viable
    again this just doesn't match reality
    General William T. "War is Hell" Sherman
    Can you give examples of him giving up tactical ground simply to protect civilians?
    or did he attack cities? and press home attacks like any good general should?
    The two-year delay could have been used to design and produce weapons specially for D-Day
    It did
    You got amphibious tanks, various mine/trap removers etc
    your ideas I don't think are feasible
    special bombers which could fly slow and low
    Low and slow are not things you want your bombers to be
    But who could imagine such an upside down periscope? People as smart as the people who invented submarine periscopes by World War I, or people as smart as the World War I German Zeppelin designers who invented observation cars which could be lowered below the cloud level to spot and report targets. Or people merely smart enough to remember the Zeppelin observation cars from World War I.
    Zeppelin cars?
    Wow
    Do I need to point out the logistic differences between say a fast bomber and a huge slow Zeppelin
    You know there is a reason this sort of thing was never used
    because a/it would be a design nightmare and b/not all technology crosses over designs

    as for the periscope can you imagine how long it would need to be?
    and given variable cloud cover it could need to be VERY long indeed
    (or make their own clouds with smokescreens)
    You do know how fast a plane goes right?
    smokescreens would just not work
    They coud have dropped volitile gases and/or dusts such as coal dust and grain dust which would float in the air but not ignite until the Germans fired at the bombers or the Allied fleet or the soldiers landing on the beaches and then Kaboom!
    However they would face the same problem as any gas
    any wind at all will simply blow it away (Potentially into those french towns of yours)
    A weapons system which might have been invented by Allied planners more concerned with avoiding civilian casualties.
    weapons systems which are so impractical they probably would have increased allied casulaties
    Gallipolli and
    Gallipoli was a stalemate
    however in terms of military strategy the theory was sound (Same theory they used for D-Day) just their intelligence reports let them down
    Market garden were failures, you know.
    Market Garden was mostly a success
    it smashed through the german lines and achieved all but the final objective
    Considering everything many people are harsh on the whole attack
    however the sheer balls of the attacks and the fact that it did so well considering the odds against it show it is underestimated as a strategy
    Perhaps my commander would have canceled them to avoid useless casualties or reinforced or modified them and enabled them to succeed, making their casualties useful.
    Why?
    How?
    your guy would never consider them because of the large potential for casualties
    he would need to plod along slowly to ensure he can stop "unnecessary deaths"
    to develop non lethal weapons so that he could capture a fortification or a city or an army without killing anyone but gaining countless thousands of prisoners to release on parole, or use as hostages, or brainwash into fighting for his cause, etc. etc.
    lol brainwashing?
    that would take a very nasty commander to do something like that

    And lets say you develop such a weapon
    How are you going to Guard these prisoners using non-violence?

    you also use unarmed prisoners as hostages?
    so you think it is not ok to kill but it is ok to blackmail and extort victories?

    However I doubt such large scale pascification projects are really viable without some extremely high level of technology
    and again it assumes the enemy won't just slaughter your men who they know can't really fight back

    And why do you keep insisting that a less scruplous commander must be stronger? See my first section of text above.
    Necause they are?
    Your pascifist commander must either give up or accept losses
    Even your counters involve either either impossible or highly unrealistic weapon systems and tactical situations
    You then break your own mould of a commander by suggesting pre-emptive strikes against other nations etc
    Your commander mold has changed from a nice a careful avoid all war kinda person
    to now a lets gas and firebomb enemy in aggressive pre-emptive strikes
    Stalin was a psycho who exterminated almost all his top military leaders before the war.
    during the war he found this was not a viable tactic and stopped it for the most part
    Stalin was a psycho who planned to double cross
    that makes him an A-hole but not a psycho
    Hitler when he was ready to but refused to believe all the warnings that Hitler was about to strike first and double cross Stalin, thus letting countless thousands or millions of Russian soldiers be surprised and captured during the first days of the war.
    I never said Stalin was the greatest strategist either

    Stalin was a psycho who, when the Germans reported that Stalin's son had been captured, declared that any Russian who let himself be captured was a traitor, thus casing countless thousands of Russian to needlessly fight to the death, merely in order to enjoy causing one person, his son, to commit suicide.
    That is Sadism not psycho
    Psycho is more like the japanese retreat (As I said earlier)
    Hitler was a psycho who refused to allow his top generals, or lower leaders down to noncoms, to manuver for strategic or tactical advantage, forbidding all German soldiers to retreat an inch from any position they were in, commanding them to fight to the death where they were instead. Hitler wasted the lives of millions of German soldiers.
    Hitler was an idiot with little understanding of tactics
    He was a terrible strategist and his idealogical ideals did cost germany later in the war
    However he was for the most part perfectly rational
    You believe that my commander would be like General William T. "Always a Failure" Sherman, I presume?
    I do not know anything about this guy
    can you provide examples of where he gave up simply because of civilians?
    or refused a tactical advantage for some reason related to your commander?

  5. #405
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaFanGuy View Post
    I do not know anything about this guy
    can you provide examples of where he gave up simply because of civilians?
    or refused a tactical advantage for some reason related to your commander?
    I guess it is military story time since, despite proEuphie's complaint to me, she STILL hasn't gotten back on topic (AGAIN, the thread is titled "Euphemia's murder", not "Euphemia's command capacity"; feel free to talk about that whenever you feel like it, proEuphie).

    Anyway, General William T. Sherman was a very prominent general of the Union army during the American Civil War (sorry proEuphie, but only monuments and records use the term "War of the Rebellion"). He is very well known for being an outstanding strategist, his military strategies giving him the distinction of "the first modern general". After the war in 1875, he published the book Memoirs, one of THE BEST firsthand accounts of the Civil War available.

    I am not sure where proEuphie gets her facts (I don't know where the "Always a Failure" part is coming from), but General Sherman sure as hell didn't try to avoid bloody battles. If he did, he still racked a pretty impressive body count by allowing civilians to basically starve to death and basically die in the slowest, surest ways possible (a death is a death, no matter how "bloody" it is, proEuphie, so get off your damn high horse before you hurt yourself). He was in the thick of it all. He chose to implement total war; he didn't want to defeat the Confederacy; he wanted to DESTROY THEM. Sure, he kept his army deaths to a minimum...by plowing through cities with a huge as hell army (a combination of three full armies). As for the Confederate army and their people...well, he couldn't care less what happened to them.

    The most important contribution he made was the capture of Atlanta. After he captured it, he burned...well, pretty much everything. He didn't go through "largely undefended territories" during the Savannah Campaign ("Sherman's March to the Sea"). He went through important areas of the South, burning and destroying the ever-loving hell out of everything of relative military importance. Hell, even Sherman himself admits that most of what he burned and blew up was "simple waste and destruction". The reason his men lived off the land was because General Sherman cut supply and communication lines after Confederate General John Bell Hood threatened to do so (Sherman basically went "Oh yeah? We just did it...and we're still going to destroy you"). Once he got to Savannah, Georgia, he gave a little message to General William Hardee. While I can quote you the entire message (yes, I did memorize it), Sherman basically said:

    "Look, Hardee. I just got some damn good siege artillery. I'll give you some time to think about a proposition. Surrender the city of Savannah and all of its forts to me, and I will give liberal terms to not only its civilians but also the garrison that protected them. If you don't, I will attack you in the most brutal fashion (I will do nothing to hold back my army), burn everything to the ground, allowing its civilians to die a slow, agonizing death, and basically make your life hell because of the hell the South has caused by dragging people into war." Needless to say, Hardee got his little butt out of Savannah.

    Sherman continued on to South Carolina, again burning and destroying things in what can only be described as "infrastructure rape" (he cut off vital supply lines that ultimately lead to the successful capture of Petersburg by Grant). He captured the capital city Colombia and then burned everything to the freaking ground (most of the fires confirmed to be done out of vengeance). Once he got to North Carolina, he fought in the Battle of Bentonville and won. He let the Confederates get away since he didn't want anymore bloodshed, basically saying "Eh, we're going to win anyway".

    Now, after saying that, I do not know how anybody can connect him to Euphemia...in ANY way. First, at the age of sixteen, while Euphemia was falling out of windows and exploring love at the same capacity as a Disney princess, Sherman was attending West Point (having a military education pretty much puts him ahead of Euphemia who barely had one). Second, Euphemia is a pacifist, while Sherman was not only NOT a pacifist, he chose to implement total war and was not against letting civilians and soldiers die in the worst ways imaginable in order to psychologically break the Confederacy (proEuphie, are you suggesting that Euphemia would do the same thing?).

    And while Confederate death tolls could have been much worse if not for Sherman's decisive victories, more than 260,000 people still died. This is something that shouldn't be ignored under ANY circumstance (not that many people were present at the SAZ massacre, let alone actually died) and to do so just oozes ignorance.

    Also, proEuphie, I don't want to double-post (something you are committed to doing), so I will say this here. STOP editing your old posts. I didn't read them then and I am not going to do it again now. AGAIN, you ARE aware that I can see both the time AND date in which you edit a post? That it looks weird when you edit a post four DAYS after posting it?
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 05-04-2010 at 11:55 PM.
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  6. #406
    Senior Member MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy's Avatar
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    ^^Well I guess that just about destroys ProEuphies entire point
    Sounds like an interesting guy as well

  7. #407
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaFanGuy View Post
    ^^Well I guess that just about destroys ProEuphies entire point
    Sounds like an interesting guy as well
    I don't know what proEuphie's "point" was when it came to General Sherman and Euphemia. They really have nothing in common. There is a BIG difference in caring about the well-being of your men and being a pacifist. Just because Sherman cared about the lives of his men doesn't mean that he was against fighting under any circumstance. As I just told you, Sherman was a ruthless military strategist, FAR from being anything that would be considered anywhere close to being a pacifist. He was more like Cornelia than anybody else, so I do not know how he even popped up.
    This is my war face.

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  8. #408
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    I am not sure where proEuphie gets her facts (I don't know where the "Always a Failure" part is coming from),
    Just a little sarcasm since MangaFanGuy believes avoiding bloody slaughter always leads to failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    but General Sherman sure as hell didn't try to avoid bloody battles.
    That's what Sherman himself claimed several times in letters, etc. quoted in Marszalek, John F., Sherman: A Soldier's Passion for Order, Free Press, 1992, ISBN 0-02-920135-7; "reissued with new preface", Southern Illinois University Press, 2007.

    It is true that people tend to bend the truth a bit or a lot to avoid admitting to anything embarrassing, even to family, friends, co-workers, and other people they are very close to. But since you believe that Cornelia must have told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth when she said why Euphemia was present at Narita, I suppose you will have to admit that Sherman told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth when he wrote about his motives for his civil war decisions.


    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    If he did, he still racked a pretty impressive body count by allowing civilians to basically starve to death and basically die in the slowest, surest ways possible (a death is a death, no matter how "bloody" it is, proEuphie, so get off your damn high horse before you hurt yourself).
    So you think that Sherman's army caused a large number of civilians to starve to death? Have you ever read a statement that estimated civilian deaths from starvation due to Sherman's foraging?

    I thought that Shermans's army was rarely more than sixty miles wide, so that someone who was in the middle of it would have to travel no more than thirty miles to get outside the path of the confiscation and destruction of food supplies. Foraging soldiers would travel outside of the path of the army but they would be zig-zagging from house to house and from barn to barn and could travel quite a total distances within just a few square miles and then would have to catch up with their marching units, so I doubt if they traveled far outside the path of the army and widened the zone of devastation that much.

    So even if an entire community was stripped totally bare of food and people could not turn to their more fortunate neighbors for assistance, they would have to walk only ten miles, or twenty miles, or thirty miles, or possibly forty miles to get to a place where there was food and they could be fed by kind strangers. Do you think that many people would starve to death only ten, or twenty, or thirty, or possibly forty miles from undevastated regions?


    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    He was in the thick of it all. He chose to implement total war; he didn't want to defeat the Confederacy; he wanted to DESTROY THEM. Sure, he kept his army deaths to a minimum...by plowing through cities with a huge as hell army (a combination of three full armies). As for the Confederate army and their people...well, he couldn't care less what happened to them.
    Sherman's war was hardly total war compared to World war I or World War II. Sherman also kept Confederate army deaths to a minimum by fighting fewer bloodily battles than he could have if he wanted to. Sherman wanted to DESTROY the Confederate States of America but he wanted to do it while killing as few of his own men and Confederates as possible. Sherman liked the South and had many personal friends among Confederate soldiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    The most important contribution he made was the capture of Atlanta.
    By maneuvering Joseph Johnston's forces out of their positions instead of making (many) bloody frontal attacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    After he captured it, he burned...well, pretty much everything.
    Sherman was not responsible for all of the burning and destruction in Atlanta,and four hundred houses were still standing when his army left.
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    He didn't go through "largely undefended territories" during the Savannah Campaign ("Sherman's March to the Sea"). He went through important areas of the South, burning and destroying the ever-loving hell out of everything of relative military importance.
    But Georgia was largely undefended because the main southern force under General Hood launched a counter-invasion of territories occupied by Union forces.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Sherman continued on to South Carolina, again burning and destroying things in what can only be described as "infrastructure rape" (he cut off vital supply lines that ultimately lead to the successful capture of Petersburg by Grant).
    So his destruction served an important military purpose but killed far fewer people than a bloody battle.
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    He captured the capital city Colombia and then burned everything to the freaking ground (most of the fires confirmed to be done out of vengeance).
    The fires at Columbia have always been controversial; you present one side of the controversy.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Now, after saying that, I do not know how anybody can connect him to Euphemia...in ANY way. First, at the age of sixteen, while Euphemia was falling out of windows and exploring love at the same capacity as a Disney princess, Sherman was attending West Point (having a military education pretty much puts him ahead of Euphemia who barely had one).
    At West Point Sherman got a very good training in civil and military engineering and a fair training in military tactics and a smattering of military strategy. Are you saying that Euphemia barely had a military education or barely had any education? If you mean the latter my fifth section of text in my post # 382 on page 16 discusses Euphemia's education relative to that of the main characters Lelouch, Suzaku, and Kallen.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Second, Euphemia is a pacifist, while Sherman was not only NOT a pacifist, he chose to implement total war
    Not as total as you think. Not all all like World War I or World War II.
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    aand was not against letting civilians and soldiers die in the worst ways imaginable in order to psychologically break the Confederacy (proEuphie, are you suggesting that Euphemia would do the same thing?).
    NO. But since you are suggesting that General Sherman caused massive civilian starvation deaths perhaps you would like to provide some evidence. Clearly Euphemia was a much nicer, and kinder, and gentler person than Sherman. But it is worth pointing out that part of Sherman's success as a military commander was due to his reluctance to kill people if he could achieve victory without it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    And while Confederate death tolls could have been much worse if not for Sherman's decisive victories, more than 260,000 people still died. This is something that shouldn't be ignored under ANY circumstance (not that many people were present at the SAZ massacre, let alone actually died) and to do so just oozes ignorance.

    Also, proEuphie, I don't want to double-post (something you are committed to doing), so I will say this here. STOP editing your old posts. I didn't read them then and I am not going to do it again now. AGAIN, you ARE aware that I can see both the time AND date in which you edit a post? That it looks weird when you edit a post four DAYS after posting it?
    Last edited by proEuphie; 05-05-2010 at 11:55 PM. Reason: spelling, etc. added one sentence.

  9. #409
    Senior Member MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy's Avatar
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    Just a little sarcasm since MangaFanGuy believes avoiding bloody slaughter always leads to failure.
    No
    Just someone who avoids all potential loss of life will fail in war
    I did say that a person doesn't have to be an indiscriminate butcher

    Sherman was not responsible for allof the burning and destruciton in Atlanta,and four hundred houses were still standing whenhis army left
    " Under Sherman's orders Capt. O. M. Poe "thoroughly destroyed Atlanta, save its mere dwelling-houses and churches." The destruction was by fire purposely applied to buildings, and permitted to spread, as was expected, from house to house until the defenseless city was almost entirely reduced to ashes. No efforts were made to prevent the spread of the conflagration, and scarcely any structure was designedly spared. Only about 450 buildings escaped this ruthless burning, among them many churches, which in those days generally stood apart from other buildings. The thoroughness of the destruction can be realized, when we consider that by the census of 1860 Atlanta had a population of 10,000, which in 1864 had increased to 14,000. More than 4,000 houses, including dwellings, shops, stores, mills and depots were burned, about eleven-twelfths of the city. Capt. Daniel Oakey, of the Second Massachusetts volunteers, says: "Sixty thousand of us witnessed the destruction of Atlanta, while our post band and that of the Thirty-third Massachusetts played martial airs and operatic selections." Sherman himself noted the rising columns of smoke as he rode away from the city. Considering that he had been in possession of the city since the 3d of September, he had had ample time to utterly destroy everything in it that could be of advantage to an enemy, without the wanton and inexcusable method to which he resorted. It was no more necessary from a military point of view to destroy mercantile establishments than private dwellings or churches. The destruction of Atlanta can never be excused. The name of the Federal commander will always be associated with this barbarous act. "
    http://www.civilwarhome.com/shermangeorgia.htm

    and it goes on to talk about the damage Sherman commited

    " In his report of the march to the sea, General Sherman declared that he had destroyed the railroads for more than 100 miles, and had consumed the corn and fodder in the region of country 30 miles on either side of a line from Atlanta to Savannah, as also the sweet potatoes, cattle, hogs, sheep and poultry, and carried away more than 10,000 horses and mules, as well as a countless number of slaves. "I estimate the damage done to the State of Georgia and its military resources at $100,000,000; at least $20,000,000 of which has inured to our advantage, and the remainder is simply waste and destruction." After admitting that "this may seem a hard species of warfare," he comforted himself with the reflection that it brought the sad realities of war home to those who supported it. Thus condoning all the outrages committed by an unrestrained army, he further reported that his men were "a little loose in foraging, and did some things they ought not to have done.""

  10. #410
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    I don't know what proEuphie's "point" was when it came to General Sherman and Euphemia. They really have nothing in common. There is a BIG difference in caring about the well-being of your men and being a pacifist. Just because Sherman cared about the lives of his men doesn't mean that he was against fighting under any circumstance. As I just told you, Sherman was a ruthless military strategist, FAR from being anything that would be considered anywhere close to being a pacifist. He was more like Cornelia than anybody else, so I do not know how he even popped up.
    Like most union Generals Sherman was angered by southern guerrillas and "bushwackers" in occupied territories and took stern measures to get rid of them. But do you know of any instances when, like Cornelia, he rounded up thousands of civilians and massacred them until the bushwackers hiding among them revealed themselves and tried to fight and were killed?

  11. #411
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    That's what Sherman himself claimed several times in letters, etc. quoted in Marszalek, John F., Sherman: A Soldier's Passion for Order, Free Press, 1992, ISBN 0-02-920135-7; "reissued with new preface", Southern Illinois University Press, 2007.
    Okay...what did he say? When you quote someone, you need to give me THE QUOTE!! You can't just give me the source because 1) YOU are the one who has the burden of proof here; I don't have to look through your source, you need to give me information FROM YOUR SOURCE! And 2) You could easily be lying.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    But since you believe that Cornelia must have told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth when she said why Euphemia was present at Narita, I suppose you will have to admit that Sherman told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth when he wrote about his motives for his civil war decisions.
    What the...how in THE HELL are you going to accuse me of assuming that Sherman is telling the whole truth all of the time when YOU are QUOTING SHERMAN YOURSELF?! You even gave me A FREAKING SOURCE, you fool! What sense does it make to critize someone for doing something that you ARE ALSO DOING?! Are you that dumb? Are you that freaking stupid that you can't even make a sensible argument anymore? Is THAT your argument? Is that SERIOUSLY your freaking argument?! Alright, this thing is done. Done, done, done, DONE!

    Okay, let me explain something to you. Sherman was a general. He was the direct cause for the deaths of thousands of people. If you don't believe me, just pick any random battle that he participated in and led (the Battle of Bentonville, the Atlanta Campaign, Sherman's March to the Sea, the Vicksburg Campaign, Chattanooga, etc); thousands of people were involved in those battles and thousands of people died. If he had a reluctance to kill, I do not not see it anywhere. And his supposed "reluctance to kill" means absolute crap when about 1,030,000 people died in that war (3% of the freaking population DIED!!), with only 60% of that number soldier deaths.

    That was a WAR, a horrible travesty to befall our nation! The deadliest battle in United States history! Why does the specific amount of people who died matter to you? Oh, so Sherman didn't kill AS MANY PEOPLE as he could have, so that makes him a great guy? This makes him a pacifist? Is that the requirement? So if Euphemia launched a campaign where she would try to not kill people, but still did, as long as she didn't kill too many, it would be okay? Is that what you are saying? Are you so freaking desperate to win an argument that you would suggest that as long as someone TRIED to not kill a lot of people, that the deaths of the people that they killed ANYWAY do not matter?

    And by that token, why the HELL are you still freaking TALKING ABOUT IT!? Are you that much of a tool that you can be led around by any topic that you feel that you need to challenge, even at the cost of your own credibility and being treated as nothing more than a complete and total MORON?!

    This is way I do not care about Euphemia. Here's what I basically think about her (prepare everyone; I am about to go off, as I am done being nice about it): *deep breath*

    I hate Euphemia. I hate her voice, I hate her face, I hate her personality, I basically hate everything about her (YOU haven't helped). Her naivete is just laughable; I think she would forgive Hitler if he apologized enough times. I have never liked her and I hate pseudo-pacifistic characters like her. Not only did I know that she was going to die, I hoped that she did, just like Relena, Marina, and all those other idiots. There I said it.

    And amazingly, AMAZINGLY, after alluding to these to things for months, you still can't seem to grasp the simple fact that I DO NOT CARE about your opinion (bare in mind that used to, but have since given up in sifting through your crap). I do not care about Euphemia, whether it was something that happened to her, could have happened to her, or her freaking command capacity that is about as real as a moon made of cheese, and I do not care about you.


    Again, if you respond to me, I have NOTHING nice to say to you (I am done being nice). I am NOT going to hear your opinion out because I don't care what your opinion is. I respond for the lulz and that's about it. Don't expect a nice debate from me because I am done giving them out to you.

    Sorry that you didn't know that she was going to die. Sorry that Code Geass ruined anime for you, that you feel that you can't trust what's going to appear on television. Sorry that Euphemia's death has upset you so much. However, I don't care; I don't care, I don't care, I don't care. Do we get it now?
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 05-06-2010 at 03:56 AM.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  12. #412
    Senior Member under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain's Avatar
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    Default Re: *SPOILERS* The shot that killed My Love for Anime

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    No, it wouldn't be sick to cheer when Lelouch died. And don't say that he did a lot of good things. He could have done all those things without murdering Euphemia and without ordering the geass directorate massacre.. Doing those two acts of unnecessary and obvious evil makes Lelouch just as evil as any villain whose death you have ever cheered at even if he is o therwise a nobel hero.

    If you have never cheered at any villains death then maybe you can say that people who cheer for the death of the villain and/or hero Lelouch are different than you but you should not go so far as to say they are sick.

    Anyway, I hear that the death of Lelouch was nothing to cheer about. It is depressing to think that someone who did things as terrible as killing Euphemia for no logical reason and ordering the geass directorate massacre was so clever than none of his enemies could kill him and and no court could bring hims to justice and finally he had to plan his own death. And any one who does such evil things, even if mixed in with good deeds, should be tried and sentenced to death and be dragged screaming and begging for mercy to his execution.

    I say anyone who cried at Lelouch's death merely because they got to know him for 25 hours and saw only his good side at first and got suckered into thinking that he was good enough to like and to be a protagonist makes me depressed.

    Actually it is not too surprising that Euphie died if shot somewhere in the torso which is packed with vital organs. -- it is really surprising that so many really evil characters that I wouldn't mind seeing die survived so much worse. Perhaps the doctors did just pretend to try to save her. I think real doctors would have kept working on her right up to the end trying desperately to save her life and she would never have had her dying scene with Suzaku -- or it would have been a lot less private.

    I thought I heard one doctor tell another that it was hopeless. But perhaps it was not the truth but part of their plan. If so, I can only hope that the plan was also to fake Euphemia's death for some reason and that she would resurface sometime after the end of the series.
    You don't understand what makes a good character.

    People love Lelouch because he's a three-dimensional character. He's not a straightforward protagonist, and that makes him interesting. I know you love to see things as black and white which is probably why you despise Lelouch, but the truth is that he's not a black and white character.

    He is not always good, this is true. While I don't think the Euphie massacre is really where you want to focus in pointing this out, (The destruction of the JLF and the Geass Directorate Massacre are good examples.) I agree with you there. However, evil actions don't outweight the good things he has done, just as the good actions don't outweigh the evil ones he's done.

    He is not good, he is not evil. He is merely human, and therefore, at least someone you can relate to. (Or perhaps, dare I say it, like?)

    I'd also like to point out that Euphie's death is a plot-device. The story could not have progressed in the fashion that it die if she hadn't died. We wouldn't have had the brilliant Suzaku-Lelouch paradigm at the end of season 1 if she didn't die, so I believe it was a well-executed plot device to further that theme.

    Now, you seem to argue quite a lot that Lelouch planned Euphie's death beforehand. This is quite an extraordinary claim, and requires a great deal of evidence that I haven't seen.

    Now, in the absence of evidence you make a great deal of assumptions. I'd like to show you a list of assumptions that you make and how ridiculous they are:
    1. Lelouch planned to use his Geass, despite his claiming otherwise
    2. Lelouch cared more about his cause than Euphie.
    3. Lelouch lied in his inner monologue about his love for Euphie.
    4. C.C. had a spontaneous spasm at the exact same time as Lelouch was using his Geass, despite the fact that Lelouch has used his geass multiple times without such a spasm occurring.
    5. C.C. spontaneously started talking about his geass malfunctioning before he used it for no logical reason.
    6. Lelouch completely disregarded Nunnally's wishes, despite having pretty much made himself her slave when they first lived in Japan, as seen in the audio episodes.
    7. Lelouch had the gun for the sole purpose of giving it to Euphie so that she could start the masasacre, despite him claiming that his intention was to become a martyr, and the fact that Euphie could have easily ordered any Britannian to give her a gun.
    8. Lelouch tried to stop Euphie from carrying out the order for no logical reason. (Remember, there was nobody watching him. He had no reason to attempt to stop her.)
    8. Lelouch lied to C.C., despite her acting as though she would be his ally no matter what, about his geass malfunction.
    9. Lelouch cries under his mask for no apparent reason. (Nobody could have seen him do so, so it couldn't have been for publicity.)
    10. Lelouch could have taken Euphemia hostage without negative repercussions, but chose not to.
    11. Lelouch gained from killing Euphemia. (Despite having a plan that achieved the same ends without the same means.)
    Last edited by under the rain; 12-18-2010 at 09:45 AM.


  13. #413
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Default Re: *SPOILERS* The shot that killed My Love for Anime

    Response to Under The Rain post # 412


    I kept trying to respond to you but had technical difficulties. So just read the new topics I started on Christmas Day, even though they are not responses to your comments.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 12-26-2010 at 12:12 AM.

  14. #414
    Senior Member under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain has a reputation beyond repute under the rain's Avatar
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    Default Re: *SPOILERS* The shot that killed My Love for Anime

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Response to Under The Rain post # 412


    I kept trying to respond to you but had technical difficulties. So just read the new topics I started on Christmas Day, even though they are not responses to your comments.
    I smell lies, but okay. I'm interested to hear an actual response if possible.


  15. #415
    Senior Member Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster's Avatar
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    Default Re: *SPOILERS* The shot that killed My Love for Anime

    Euphemia died for a reason. Don't like it, well, you're in a tough spot and I can't help you. You just have to deal with it.

  16. #416
    Junior Member brolyeuphyfusion is on a distinguished road brolyeuphyfusion's Avatar
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    Default Re: *SPOILERS* The shot that killed My Love for Anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Light Buster View Post
    Euphemia died for a reason.
    Just because there was a reason doesn't mean it was a good one. In this case it was a stupid one.

    You know as well as I do that the reason was the Lelouch fanatics/Euphemia haters' constant whining...ever wonder why Euphemia's alive in the spinoffs/alternate stories?

  17. #417
    Senior Member Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster has a reputation beyond repute Light Buster's Avatar
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    Default Re: *SPOILERS* The shot that killed My Love for Anime

    Quote Originally Posted by brolyeuphyfusion View Post
    Just because there was a reason doesn't mean it was a good one. In this case it was a stupid one.

    You know as well as I do that the reason was the Lelouch fanatics/Euphemia haters' constant whining...ever wonder why Euphemia's alive in the spinoffs/alternate stories?
    This topic is long dead now so I don't see the point answering this question.

  18. #418
    Junior Member brolyeuphyfusion is on a distinguished road brolyeuphyfusion's Avatar
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    Default Re: *SPOILERS* The shot that killed My Love for Anime

    Quote Originally Posted by Light Buster View Post
    This topic is long dead now so I don't see the point answering this question.
    Ever since I had to deal with youtube fanboys, it's kinda hard for me to let some posts go unaddressed, topic age notwithstanding.

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