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Thread: Mecha Ethics

  1. #26
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
    Gil
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    early 12/10/09 -- Going to bed. My post is unfinished. Don't start responding to it until I finish it21/12/09 1230am going to bed. Don't respond to this post until I finish it Friday night.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    Stop double posting(you're actually way over that.)
    Where did I double post? What is the definition of double posting? You remind me of +Namiko+ complaining that I was messing up her thread with all my posts. But how can I mess up my thread by replying as often as I think necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    Anyway, everything wolfgirl said was pretty much right.
    Everything Wolfgirl said was pretty much wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    As for Euphy, how many times do I have to tell you, Lelouch had no clue he could ever get rid of the Geass effect. That's why he didn't capture her.
    Euphemia would have been almost exactly as easy to capture if she was controlled by the geass command as she would be if not controlled by it. If she was properly confined the danger that she would kill another Japanese person would be almost as minute if she was controlled by the geass command all her life as if would be if she was free of the geass command all her life.

    Lelouch didn't have time to think about a lot of long term ramifications which he should have thought about earlier while he was planning to disrupt the opening of the SAZ. But as a military leader he should have been able to see that Euphemia would be really easy to capture -- even Kallen saw that and asked if he was going to capture Euphemia. And it should have been obvious that there would be no great problem keeping her prisoner.

    That was all that Lelouch should have thought about before deciding to capture Euphemia instead of killing her. Thinking hard looking for reasons to kill someone instead of capturing them is evil.

    Killing Euphemia would have been terribly evil even if Lelouch was certain that she was never be cured of the geass command. It would have been almost exactly as evil as killing her if he was certain that she could easily be cured of the geass command.

    As it was, Lelouch had no idea that Euphemia could ever be cured, and no proof that she never could be cured. He was somewhere between the two extremes of being certain she would be cured and certain she could not be cured. But since his knowledge lay between two extremes which had very slight effect on the degree of evilness in his murder of Euphemia the exact state of his ability to estimate if Euphemia could be cured is almost meaningless in trying to reduce his guilt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    Maybe if the effect would have broken(going by cannon not your weird theory.), as in it went like this.
    Lelouch: I would have liked that... You and I together.
    Euphy: Lelouch... What's going on? *Looks at her clothes* Why am I?!
    Lelouch: With that, my plan can proceed. *Shoots*
    Euphy: Why...?

    Then, he'd be evil!
    As I said above, Lelouch would be almost equally evil for murdering Euphemia if he knew that she was already cured or if he knew that she never could be cured. In either case it was murder to kill her when she would be so easy to capture and when keeping her prisoner would not be a big problem.

    My theory is not weird. It is simple logic and deduction from the evidence.

    Euphemia could talk in the sickbay. Therefore she could give orders, including orders to massacre more Japanese and kill Suzaku, that would be obeyed. The geass command tried to make her kill, and Euphemia resisted, and then she talked about other things with no evidence that she could even feel the geass command trying to make her kill.

    So the most logical interpretation of that evidence is that Euphemia almost certainly defeated the geass command in the sickbay.

    But Euphemia had only seconds to defeat her geass command before it would take over her and make her kill. Finding a way to defeat it in mere seconds would be an incredible coincidence. But if Euphemia's subconscious mind resisted the geass command even after it took control of her, it could have found a way to defeat it before Lelouch shot her. Then her subconscious mind could simply remember that method and use it again in the sickbay when the geass tried to regain command. Thus Euphemia could have squashed her geass command within seconds in the sickbay.

    I would say that a objective opinion would be that there is at least a ninety percent probability that Euphemia defeated her geass command in the sickbay and at least an eighty one percent probability that Euphemia defeated her geass command right before Lelouch shot her.

    It is logically impossible to write a story in which a good and decent person kills an innocent person who is so easy to capture alive as Euphemia would have been. The writers of Code Geass might have tried but they failed to do the utterly and totally impossible.

    What actually happened right before Lelouch shot Euphemia was almost exactly identical with the course of events which you admit would have made Lelouch evil.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    By the time Lelouch got out of his knightmare, she had a gun.
    Not to mention, they never implied that those had been invented. Although, that would make them the most hardcore terrorists ever! Lol.
    Grow up.
    But you say that Euphie had gun by the time Lelouch got out of his nightmare in response to my statement that she could have been captured before she picked up the gun, and before Lelouch got out of his nightmare. You have no answer to my statement that Euphemia could have been captured easily when she was unarmed and so you pretend to answer it by talking about the situation later when Lelouch got out of his nightmare.

    And she still could be captured easy even when she carried a machne gun. Neither Lelouch, nor CC, nor Kallen was shown acting worried about Lelouch's safety. The writers did not do anything to make the audience fear Euphemia would shoot Lelouch.

    it is time for you to stop defending Lelouch for murdering someone who was absolutely helpless against the power of his nightmares, and who loved and trusted him too much to be dangerous to him. Grow up.

    PS. You are a little imprecise about what would have made Lelouch & Co. the most hardcore terrorists ever.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    They didn't care about her. She was nothing at all. She wasn't strong enough to rule. The only reason she meant anything was because of her family, and she wasn't technically a member of it anymore.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 12-10-2009 at 11:36 PM.

  2. #27
    Cardinal of Eden Vital Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    early 12/10/09 -- Going to bed. My post is unfinished. Don't start responding to it until I finish it.



    Where did I double post? What is the definition of double posting? You remind me of +Namiko+ complaining that I was messing up her thread with all my posts. But how can I mess up my thread by replying as often as I think necessary?


    Everything Wolfgirl said was pretty much wrong.



    Euphemia would have been almost exactly as easy to capture if she was controlled by the geass command as she would be if not controlled by it. If she was properly confined the danger that she would kill another Japanese person would be almost as minute if she was controlled by the geass command all her life as if would be if she was free of the geass command all her life.

    Lelouch didn't have time to think about a lot of long term ramifications which he should have thought about earlier while he was planning to disrupt the opening of the SAZ. But as a military leader he should have been able to see that Euphemia would be really easy to capture -- even Kallen saw that and asked if he was going to capture Euphemia. And it should have been obvious that there would be no great problem keeping her prisoner.

    That was all that Lelouch should have thought about before deciding to capture Euphemia instead of killing her. Thinking hard Looking for reasons to kill someone instead of capturing them is evil.

    Killing Euphemia would have been terribly evil even if Lelouch was certain that she was never be cured of the geass command. It would have been almost exactly as evil as killing her if he was certain that she could easily be cured of the geass command.

    As it was, Lelouch had no idea that Euphemia could ever be cured, and no proof that she never could be cured. He was somewhere between the two extremes of being certain she would be cured and certain she could not be cured. But since his knowledge lay between two extremes which had very slight effect on the degree of evilness in his murder of Euphemia the exact state of his ability to estimate if Euphemia could be cured is almost meaningless in trying to reduce his guilt.








    But you say that Euphie had gun by the time Lelouch got out of his nightmare in response to my statement that she could have been captured before she picked up the gun, and before Lelouch got out of his nightmare. You have no answer to my statement that Euphemia could have been captured easily when she was unarmed and so you pretend to answer it by talking about the situation later when Lelouch got out of his nightmare.

    And she still could be captured easy even when she carried a machne gun. Neither Lelouch, nor CC, nor Kallen was shown acting worried about Lelouch's safety. The writers did not do anything to make the audience fear Euphemia would shoot Lelouch.

    it is time for you to stop defending Lelouch for murdering someone who was absolutely helpless against the power of his nightmares, and who loved and trusted him too much to be dangerous to him. Grow up.


    Listen dear. Lelouch(and everyone besides people like you, and there are a few, but most focus on real life) though Euphy would be better off dead than under the Geass command or be guilty of killing all those people.

    I don't think you should have even watch CG, miss hippie.( No offense, lol)
    You don't understand it.

    PS, posting several times in a row is double posting.


    I have recently transformed into a defender of the mentally ill. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

  3. #28
    El Dementia The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue has a reputation beyond repute The Truth in Blue's Avatar
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    It's easy if you put it this way: Mechas are like tanks. Have you ever seen a tank with a net gun? No, you haven't.
    (Unless you count the FBI's Tear gas Tanks.)



  4. #29
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Gamertag: DisturbedWiccan PSN ID: Wolfdragon63 Steam ID: Wolfgirl90

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    Oh, honey I could honestly care less about the specifics of your little "story" (if it could called such). However, since you find it fit to fight a losing battle with me about it rather than saying "Hey Wolfgirl90, I know I didn't make a perfect story, so lets just drop this", I will continue. Honestly, if there is something you think is not important for me to focus on, admit the mistake, tell me to drop it and move on. Okay...after this, you have a chance to admit to your "less than perfect" story, to all its flaws and inconsistanes that I and others have pointed out to you and tell me to drop it (and I will) and we can continue the original topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    So you say that people actually in the military are not a subgroup of "people with military interests"?
    Basically. Not every person who joins the military joins because of their interest in military (I have seen this plenty of times).

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Beside, I implied that the civil war had been going on for about a year (if the Ikaris chose their sides at the beginning) and there is no evidence whether the Ikaris or anyone else in their world had any previous military experience.
    Because you didn't give any evidence, duh. Once again, If you have people with the ranks of "Colonel" and "General", one can only assume they have "previous military experience" (unlike enlisted ranks, one needs to have formal military training along with a college degree to be an officer). If the Azurians are in such dire straights that they would put ANYONE in the position of General, why don't they just surrender (since you are so adamant for that sort of thing)?

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Amateur soldiers are not always up to the standards you expect in the modern professional military.
    Granted, General Turchin's wife was able to hold her own as a commander despite not having any real experience. Colonel and General Ikari have none (according to you) and act they don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Since the evidence shows that Rei Ikari took the customary surrender posture in her world, and was very affectionate with Shini Ikari and thus did not seem very threatening, it seems to me that choosing to kill her with either method is equally murder.
    Okay, first of all, stop using the word "evidence". Since this your story and your thread, you can willing change whatever "evidence" is available. Heck, you could change the story right now to fit your needs, so the word "evidence" really doesn't fit here.

    Second, you never said that the posture that Rei Ikari took was one of surrender (I believe that you retroactively using that as a front for your mistake, but whatever). Again, the correct action would be for her to drop her gun or even her entire holster. For someone like me, I honestly suspected that she was hit by a moment of sheer stupidity for holding out her LOADED gun to her UNARMED enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Apparently Shinji Ikari had to say that he had blasted Rei Ikari with his cannon to cover up that he had shot her with (her) pistol instead of accepting her surrender.
    Like I said before, the problem lies in the fact you only say that pieces of her mech were raining down and Rei is parachuting down. Was her mech destroyed by Shinji himself or someone else? Who knows (and neither should you because there's nothing else to show who could be responsible). If Shinji shot her down, then he only made the situation worse by shooting Rei and vaporizing her body, as he already went against orders (the cameras on his mech would prove such). If someone else shot her down, then they should be in trouble right along with Shinji.

    [quote=proEuphie;2351739]I hear that in Code Geass Cornelia was the commanding general of the entire Britannian army. In any case she was a very high ranking military leader. No doubt you can quote posts where you have criticized her for being on the front lines in her nightmare in many battles.[/quotes]

    I don't know, you tell me, since you apparently already know (Or are you talking out of your behind?). I have made 950 posts on this site, so pardon me if I can't remember ONE where I critized Cornelia specifically, though I doubt I did, with Cornelia being one of my favorite characters (also, its "Knightmare", sweetie).

    Regardless, I wasn't talking about Cornelia, I was talking about Rei Ikari and her apparent want or need to be on the battlefield, despite the fact that if ANYTHING were to happen that would threaten her life (and ONLY her's) in any way, shape or fashion, then she needs to surrender, even she has the advantage (like a LOADED gun to an UNARMED person) over her enemy. Again, this makes a rather poor comparison to Euphemia (which I know is what you were trying to do with this story and this thread).

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    I believe that in history a number of competent high ranking military officers of that age have still been young enough to be known for engaging in childish pranks and stupid drunken bets and other conduct unbecoming officers and gentlemen.
    Something I can agree with, however, Shinji has not shown to be someone of "competence" (you have not given any instances where Shinji might have been known as a bright commander and in fact, are adament in that the might have had no real military experience whatsoever), so his participation in childish bets and pranks (which resulted in the destruction of equipment so vital to his mission that he could have avoided his daughter's death with it) makes it even worse (unless he did it on purpose...).

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    I haven't decided if Shinji killed Rei in cold blood. He might have gotten very excited during the previous portion of the Battle of Madnug.
    Since you have given no real reason as to WHY Shinji would get out of his mech (with no gun) and kill his own daughter with her OWN gun (or that he felt remorse for what he did), yeah, I can assume that he basically killed her for no reason (or "cold blood").

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    But perhaps his old rage at her for choosing the Azurian side suddenly overcame him and he snatched her gun and shot her without premeditation.
    Or, IN COLD BLOOD!!

    He didn't seem to be sorry for killing her. In fact, he admitted to killing her but only by vaporizing her, which again, makes him guilty of killing her rather than capturing her. The only thing his lie changed was the circumstance of how it happened (which really doesn't change a thing in the grand scheme of things).

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Why shouldn't Rei Ikari have had a resigned expression when she prepared to surrender? If you wouldn't have resigned yourself to surrender in that situation, how would you have tried to defeat the Viridian mecha towering over you or escape from it?
    I probably would have a resigned expression IF I surrendered (which I am trained to NEVER do). How would I have tried to defect the mech? Not sure, but at least I would have at least tried ("Win or die trying").

    However, like I said before, I am really making fun of Rei and the fact that she surrendered so easily (or rather, has been trained to do so), especially if she knew that the enemy was now, not only not in his mech, but walking towards her unarmed.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    And why should a young woman refrain from hugging her estranged father who she hasn't seen in a year merely because they are high ranking officers on opposite sides of a civil war?
    Well, first PDA is not really apporpriate for uniformed officers (but whatever, do what you like in your "story"). Second, it is an interesting reaction to someone who is "estranged" to you because of actions by both parties (she said nasty things to him and left; her apology really doesn't change the fact the she had a hand in the reason as to why her father is "estranged" to her) and who never agreed to the conditions you gave him in the first place. Also, I find it rather funny that, while she she wouldn't them her "full effort", she became a general of Azurian army.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Your assumption that Rei was somehow at least four ranks higher than her father ignores the fact that most of the readers here are civilians and thus my story is written in Civilianese instead of Militaryese.
    No, that is not how it works; we have discussed this (also, you assuming that the other civilians here don't know about ranks either). As I have told you, if Shinji is called "Colonel (Shinji) Ikari", then his rank is that of "Colonel", nothing more, nothing less. If he is referred to as A "Colonel" or they or addressing him as simply "Colonel", THEN his rank could be between that of "Lieutenant Colonel" to "Colonel". Same thing with Rei: if she is called "General (Rei) Ikari", then she is a "General, nothing less. If they are addressing her or refering to her as simply "General", then her rank can vary.

    Also, I do not really blame you for not know how ranks work (though, since you keep throwing military history in my face, I thought it was something that you would certainly know); I have to study them and know them, you don't. So basically what you should be doing is admitting to your mistake, telling me to ignore the error and move on rather than coming up with an excuse to cover up (and let you get away with) ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    The statement that people don't get to be Colonel until after abut 22 years of service is not as universally correct as you may think.
    *Sigh* I am talking about the CURRENT standards for Colonel, not the ones for the 19th Century. CURRENTLY, one gets the rank of Colonel after 22 years of service and its an automatic gain of rank (meaning after 22 years of continued service, you are going to get the rank of "Colonel). And IF you became an officer at the end of college and/or ROTC or OTS (can be between 18-22 or 23 years old), then one can typically be (or expect to be) around 40+ years old when they become a "Colonel".

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    IN the Viridian-Azurian Civil War any preexisting military would have ballooned in size as civilians were rapidly enlisted. Many regular military officers or civilians appointed to command would have had meteoric rises in rank during that civil war.
    The ballooning in size makes sense; the acceleration of ranks does not (certainly not in ONE year). Only so many officers are needed for any amount of people. So while the amount of slots for officers might have increased, random people would not be suddenly given these ranks and certainly not to simply have people with those ranks. Otherwise, you get people like Shnji Ikari, "promoted" from nothing (with nothing) to Colonel, apparently for no other reason than to have someone with the rank of "Colonel" and nothing more.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  5. #30
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Default The Trial of Irshin Rikira

    Some posters have found fault with my parable of the trial of Shinji Ikari. So here is a new parable, which I hope will be a little less easy to nitpick.

    The Court Martial of a Mecha Pilot

    Let us imagine the court martial of mecha pilot Irshin Rikira on some distant world.

    Prosecutor Butomon:

    “Leader-of-a-thousand Irshin Rikira, you have an impressive record. During the year this terrible civil war has lasted you have risen from the rank of leader-of-fifty to leader-of-five-thousand, only to be reduced to leader-of-two-hundred for your indiscreet remarks advocating total extermination of the Azurian population right before they acquired mechas from the People from the Stars and drove us back into our own territory.”

    Prosecutor Butomon: “But your brilliant and heroic leadership in battle after battle has earned you promotion back to leader-of-a-thousand, and many expected that within a year or two you might be leader-of-twenty-five-thousand, leader-of-fifty-thousand, or even leader-of-a-hundred-thousand. And now this!”

    "Leader-of-a-thousand Irshin Rikira, why didn't you capture the enemy commander, at the Battle of Madnug, after you so brilliantly destroyed her mecha? Standing orders say that whenever possible an enemy leader of the rank of leader-of-five-thousand or above must be captured to be used as a hostage to stop the battle. And killing a defenseless enemy instead of capturing her is clearly an act of murder, punishable by death."

    Fickle spectators boo Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira.

    Judge Zomeg: "Silence!"

    Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira. "It was not possible to capture the Azurian commander, so I had to blast her into atoms with my mega-cannon."

    Fickle spectators cheer Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira.

    Judge Zomeg: "Silence!"

    Prosecutor Butomon: "Why wasn't it possible to capture the enemy leader? Why didn't you use some sleep gas on her?"

    Fickle spectators boo Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira.

    Judge Zomeg: "Silence!"

    Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira: "My sleep gas canister was punctured during the Battle of Eram Thgin the week before. I requested a replacement and got it the Seutuday after the Battle of Madnug."

    Fickle spectators cheer Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira.

    Judge Zomeg: "Silence!"

    Prosecutor Butomon: "Why didn't you use your net thrower on the enemy commander?"

    Fickle spectators -- well, you got the idea by now.

    Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira: My net was broken. The replacement net got here the Seutuday after the Battle of Madnug."

    Prosecutor Butomon: "How does a steel cable net get broken?"

    Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira: "Well, ah, er, we were having some drinks and I bet Leader-of-a-hundred Novanvi that I could net and capture his mecha despite his best evasive moves. It turned out that I could snag the mecha in the net but the force of the moving mecha was just too much for my net and it snapped."

    Prosecutor Butomon: "Why didn't you use your mecha's sonic blaster to knock the Azurian leader-of-five-thousand unconscious?"

    Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira: "Well, the power unit on our coffee machine was broken so I replaced it with the power unit from my mecha's sonic blaster, which was rarely used. A year ago, when we were the only ones with mechas acquired from the People from the Stars, we used to capture hordes of enemy infantry in every battle, but now we hardly ever get a chance to use our capture devices. The replacement power unit got here the Seutuday after the Madnug Battle. So you see, I had absolutely no way to capture the enemy leader-of-five-thousand alive and I had to blast her to atoms with my mega-cannon."

    Prosecutor Butomon: So you claim that you had no way to capture the enemy leader-of-five-thousand alive, despite the fact that she was unarmed with any weapon that could harm your mecha and just a couple of dozen feet away from your mecha?"

    Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira: "Yes, sir. It is impossible for a mecha pilot to capture an enemy if all three of his capture devices, the sonic blaster, the net thrower, and the sleep gas, are all disabled at the same time. It was just a tragic series of equipment failures at the same time which made it absolutely impossible for me to capture the enemy commander alive. I had no malice or criminal intent toward her.”

    Prosecutor Butomon: “Honored members of the court, please look at prosecution Exhibit A, a letter written by the deceased, Azurian Leader-of-five-thousand Eri Rikira, a year ago, at the start of this terrible civil war. Recorder, please read from your copy for the benefit of the spectators.”

    Recorder (reading from the letter): “Irshin, my father, please forgive me for the terrible things I said to you when you said you were going to join the Viridians. Please, please forgive me. I have already forgiven you for what you said to me in your anger. I beg you to send me a message telling me that you forgive me for joining the Azurians.”

    “People can only choose to fight for the side that they are convinced is right, and if the mere fact that someone they love is fighting on the other side is not enough to change their convictions, they must fight against the side of even their most beloved family members. But somehow we must find the strength to still love each other, despite my hatred for the Viridian cause and your hatred for the Azurian cause.”

    “Though I will give the Azurian cause almost all my loyalty and devotion, because of you I will not give it all my commitment. I will reserve some loyalty to you, my dear father, and to everyone in the world, including Viridians. If by some dread chance we meet in battle, I will capture you or surrender to you, run away or let you escape, instead of forcing a fight to the death between us.”

    “And I promise to fight against the hatred that this horrible civil war will bring and try to be as kind as possible to all the Viridian prisoners and civilian population, seeing you in all of them, hoping to set a good example for my fellows and keep the hatred to a minimum.”

    “Your loving daughter, Eri Rikira.”

    Prosecutor Butomon: “That letter from the deceased, Azurian Leader-of-five-thousand Eri Rikira, was found in the possessions of the accused, Leader-of-a-thousand Irshin Rikira -- her father.”

    Gasps from the court and spectators.

    Prosecutor Butomon: ”Honored members of the court, please watch the screen where I will play Exhibit B, a video taken by a camera on the torso of Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira’s mecha during the Battle of Madnug in which the deceased, Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira was killed.”

    Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira: “What! I wasn’t told there was a camera on my mecha!”

    Judge Zomeg: “Well, now you know. The prosecution in the main case against you, on the charges of murdering the hundreds of Viridians slaughtered without mercy by the followers of Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira when they heard that she had been killed, will probably have an explanation for the presence of the camera.”

    As the video opened the camera lurched, as though the mecha it was mounted on was about topple over. In the background there were pieces of several destroyed mechas and mecha-sized weapons. A weaponless Azurian mecha stood unsteadily near the camera position, scarred from recent battle damage, with yellow-green oil spurting from every joint and several holes, and smoking in several places. Other smoke came from off screen near the camera position, from the mecha it was mounted on.

    The Azurian mecha fumbled for its lasso and hurled it toward the camera. The lasso passed overhead, the Azurian mecha jerked on it, and the imaged jumped as the Viridian mecha was snared. The lasso started to winch in toward the Azurian mecha, and the imaged jumped around as both the mechas stumbled toward each other, almost falling down.

    They clanged together. The hand of the Viridian mecha came into view, grabbing a power pack out of a pouch on the side of the Azurian mecha.

    Prosecutor Butomon: “Freeze image. Here Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira snatched a power pack away from the Azurian to re-energize his own mega-cannon. Resume play.”

    The image shook and there were blinding flashes of light. Then the mecha the camera was mounted stumbled backwards away from where it had stood. Pieces of the Azurian mecha came into view. The Azurian mecha pilot came into view parachuting to safety.

    Prosecutor Butomon: “Freeze image. Apparently Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira set her auto-destruct and ejected when the two mechas were pulled together. But leader-of-a-thousand Rikira re-energized his mega-cannon and blasted the Azurian mecha away from his mecha and retreated. Resume play.”

    There was a blinding flash of light as the still intact auto-destruct mechanism exploded the section of wreckage it was in. Pieces flew in every direction. One hit the helmet of the Azurian pilot. She landed and her parachute came down and covered her. She struggled weakly and emerged from under the parachute, swaying from side to side. The broken helmet fell off, revealing her pretty young face. The sunlight glittered like gold on the highlights of her curly green hair. Bright blue blood flowed down from her hair in lines over her pale green face and onto her blue and white flight suit.

    A figure in a green and black Viridian flight suit, apparently Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira, appeared on the ground and walked toward the Azurian, his pistol still in its holster. Holding her hand to her head, the Azurian ignored her gun in her holster and the approaching Viridian. Then she got excited and rushed to hug the Viridian. He hugged her back and picked her up as easy as if she was a child.

    Every one watching the tape wished that it had sound so they could hear what was going on. Suddenly the Viridian pushed the Azurian away. She fell to the ground and picked herself unsteadily up. The Viridian snatched his gun out of his holster and pointed toward her. Bright blue blood sprayed in all directions from between the Viridian and the Azurian. She fell writhing to the ground and rolled.

    The Viridian turned and strode back toward his mecha, his face hidden by his visor, but his posture indicating he was feeling extreme emotions. He strode out of the frame. The Azurian twitched and then lay still, dead or unconscious. She moved slightly and then lay still, dead or unconscious. Her living or dead body and the surrounding ground exploded, blasted by the Viridian mega-cannon.

    Prosecutor Butomon: “End play.”

    Prosecutor Butomon: “If Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira felt so safe that he didn’t even bother to draw his own pistol while walking toward Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira, I find it hard to believe that he was afraid that Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira would resist or try to shoot him. Thus I believe that taking Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira a prisoner as per the normal procedure would have been almost as safe for Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira as killing Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira was.”

    Prosecutor Butomon: “But suppose that you think that if capturing Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira was not exactly as safe for Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira as killing Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira, the little bit of extra danger involved in capturing Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira would have been enough to making killing her not murder but an acceptable behavior on the part of Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira. If any of you think that, you will be surprised to learn that there was another way Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira could have captured Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira alive which was even safer to Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira than killing Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira was.”

    Gasps from the court and spectators.

    Prosecutor Butomon: "Honored members of the court, I wish you all to examine Exhibit C, life sized reproductions of a letter written by Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira last week. Notice anything unusual?"

    Leader-of-ten-thousand Putradanch: Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira's handwriting is unusually large and clumsy for an adult and an officer, but what has that to do with this case?"

    Prosecutor Butomon: Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira wrote that letter using the hands of his mecha."

    Gasps from the court and spectators.

    Prosecutor Butomon: Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira is very dexterous with the hands of his mecha. He can do very fine work with them, as the letter shows, or he can use enormous strength, as exhibit D, a photo of him tossing Leader-of-twenty-five Flimo into the air and catching him, shows."

    That may not sound impressive, but the photo showed that Leader-of-twenty-five Flimo was in his mecha when Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira tossed him up and caught him.

    Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira: So I'm handy with the hands of my mecha. What does that prove?"

    Prosecutor Butomon: "So why didn't you simply pick up the enemy commander in the hand of your mecha to capture her?"

    Gasps from the court and spectators.

    Prosecutor Butomon: "It might be claimed that there was some mechanical failure with the hands of Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira's mecha at the time of the Battle of Madnug. But I have witnesses to testify that Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira performed his usual post-battle ritual immediately upon returning to the post, and before there was any time to do any repairs to the hands of his mecha. And this video, exhibit E, shows just what the ritual was. Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira in his mecha, juggled three personnel carriers, put them down, and then juggled his mechanics, Followers Enojs and Gunch."

    Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira: "Oh, Oh"

    You don’t know anything about the laws of this fictional world, but based on your sense of right and wrong, do you believe that someone who does what Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira did should be convicted or acquitted?
    Last edited by proEuphie; 01-30-2010 at 09:31 PM.

  6. #31
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    unfinished 1 am Jan 31. Finished 1 am Feb. 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Oh, honey I could honestly care less about the specifics of your little "story" (if it could called such). However, since you find it fit to fight a losing battle with me about it rather than saying "Hey Wolfgirl90, I know I didn't make a perfect story, so lets just drop this", I will continue. Honestly, if there is something you think is not important for me to focus on, admit the mistake, tell me to drop it and move on. Okay...after this, you have a chance to admit to your "less than perfect" story, to all its flaws and inconsistanes that I and others have pointed out to you and tell me to drop it (and I will) and we can continue the original topic.
    I did not think of it as a story, but as a fable or parable, such as the Good Shepherd or the Good Samaritan. I just assumed that if anyone was interested in the details they could fill them out in their own minds. My post # 30 has a new parable or fable.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Basically. Not every person who joins the military joins because of their interest in military (I have seen this plenty of times).
    I suppose not, especially those who are drafted into an enemy army. But probably the vast majority of people who get into a military organization develop at least a little interest in such military topics as their chances for promotion or demotion, their chances for a better or a worse assignment, their chances of getting killed, etc. etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Because you didn't give any evidence, duh. Once again, If you have people with the ranks of "Colonel" and "General", one can only assume they have "previous military experience" (unlike enlisted ranks, one needs to have formal military training along with a college degree to be an officer). If the Azurians are in such dire straights that they would put ANYONE in the position of General, why don't they just surrender (since you are so adamant for that sort of thing)?
    I assumed that the readers would believe that the Ikaris had enough military experience to get their ranks according to the standards of THEIR society in a time of crises. If you imagine that X amount of experience is needed to be colonel or a general in the world of my fable, then you can assume that the Ikaries have X amount of experience, even if Rei possibly has just barely barely X amount.

    Their society might be like China or Japan about 1875 to 1900, building up European type military establishments. Many high ranking officers in the Chinese and Japanese armies in that era may have had a little or a lot of previous military experience, but I doubt if many of them had formal military training or college degrees. Rei Ikari is old enough to have a bachelor's degree, to say nothing of her father.

    The Azurians might not have surrendered because the Viridians might have had as much trouble finding good officers as they did. And they might have kept on fighting for the same reason that Abraham Lincoln did not grant Southern independence despite his troubles finding a good general for the Virginia front -- the cause was considered too important.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Granted, General Turchin's wife was able to hold her own as a commander despite not having any real experience. Colonel and General Ikari have none (according to you) and act they don't.
    Well, they each have a year's experience since the war began, and perhaps some experience before the war begin, since I never specified their qualifications, assuming that readers would accept that they had enough qualifications and experience by the standards of THEIR society.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Okay, first of all, stop using the word "evidence". Since this your story and your thread, you can willing change whatever "evidence" is available. Heck, you could change the story right now to fit your needs, so the word "evidence" really doesn't fit here.

    Second, you never said that the posture that Rei Ikari took was one of surrender (I believe that you retroactively using that as a front for your mistake, but whatever). Again, the correct action would be for her to drop her gun or even her entire holster. For someone like me, I honestly suspected that she was hit by a moment of sheer stupidity for holding out her LOADED gun to her UNARMED enemy.
    Then you can make make and keep a copy of my new fable in post # 30, to see if I change it in the future.

    I remind you that when Rei started holding out her loaded gun in a gesture of surrender, her enemy was still in the cockpit of his giant war robot armed with many weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Like I said before, the problem lies in the fact you only say that pieces of her mech were raining down and Rei is parachuting down. Was her mech destroyed by Shinji himself or someone else? Who knows (and neither should you because there's nothing else to show who could be responsible). If Shinji shot her down, then he only made the situation worse by shooting Rei and vaporizing her body, as he already went against orders (the cameras on his mech would prove such). If someone else shot her down, then they should be in trouble right along with Shinji.
    The first thing that the prosecutor said was that Shinji brilliantly destroyed the enemy mecha, unless you believe that I rewrote that later. If general orders were to capture enemy generals WHENEVER POSSIBLE, Shinji would probably not get into trouble merely for destroying an Azurian general's mecha in combat, especially if he deliberately or accidentally destroyed it in a way which let the Azurian general land safely on the ground where it was impossible for her to escape capture.

    [quote=proEuphie;2351739]I hear that in Code Geass Cornelia was the commanding general of the entire Britannian army. In any case she was a very high ranking military leader. No doubt you can quote posts where you have criticized her for being on the front lines in her nightmare in many battles.[/quotes]

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    I don't know, you tell me, since you apparently already know (Or are you talking out of your behind?). I have made 950 posts on this site, so pardon me if I can't remember ONE where I critized Cornelia specifically, though I doubt I did, with Cornelia being one of my favorite characters (also, its "Knightmare", sweetie).
    I don't see why you can't just assume that Rei Ikari has as much reason to be at the front as Cornelia does.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Regardless, I wasn't talking about Cornelia, I was talking about Rei Ikari and her apparent want or need to be on the battlefield, despite the fact that if ANYTHING were to happen that would threaten her life (and ONLY her's) in any way, shape or fashion, then she needs to surrender, even she has the advantage (like a LOADED gun to an UNARMED person) over her enemy. Again, this makes a rather poor comparison to Euphemia (which I know is what you were trying to do with this story and this thread).
    Rei did not have the advantage of having a loaded gun (possibly with only one bullet) against an unarmed enemy when she started surrendering -- instead she faced a giant war robot armed with many powerful weapons. And when she saw that Shinji Ikari was unarmed it was too late for her to unsurrender. She had already started to surrender. How could she convincingly threaten him with a gun? Shinji would not believe that any honorable officer would actually shoot someone who was coming to accept their surrender, in violation of our world's Hague Convention against treacherously wounding or killing persons belonging to enemy nations or armies, and no doubt similar rules in his world.

    How can you criticize Rei for surrendering when she had just a pistol against a weapon much more powerful than a tank, and then for NOT violating the Hague Convention?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Something I can agree with, however, Shinji has not shown to be someone of "competence" (you have not given any instances where Shinji might have been known as a bright commander and in fact, are adament in that the might have had no real military experience whatsoever), so his participation in childish bets and pranks (which resulted in the destruction of equipment so vital to his mission that he could have avoided his daughter's death with it) makes it even worse (unless he did it on purpose...).
    NO, I haven't given any evidence about Shinji's competence, though you might assume there was no room in my short fable for such evidence even if he was a military genius. But if even competent officers of his age can have immature and foolish habits incompetent officers should be at least as likely to.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Since you have given no real reason as to WHY Shinji would get out of his mech (with no gun) and kill his own daughter with her OWN gun (or that he felt remorse for what he did), yeah, I can assume that he basically killed her for no reason (or "cold blood").
    Killing someone for no reason is not the same as killing someone in cold blood. Killing someone for no reason means that the killer has no known reason for killing (similar to Lelouch's motiveless killing of Euphemia) regardless of his emotional state at the time of killing. Killing someone in cold blood means that the killer is relatively calm and unemotional when he kills his victim, and perhaps premeditated the murder, regardless of his motives for murder. Equating killing someone for no reason with killing someone in cold blood is comparing apples and oranges.

    Why should I go to the trouble of providing a motive for Shinji to kill Rei in my short little fable, when the makers of Code geass did not bother to provide a motive for Lelouch to kill Euphemia in their much longer tv series which they hoped to make large profits from?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Or, IN COLD BLOOD!!

    He didn't seem to be sorry for killing her. In fact, he admitted to killing her but only by vaporizing her, which again, makes him guilty of killing her rather than capturing her. The only thing his lie changed was the circumstance of how it happened (which really doesn't change a thing in the grand scheme of things).
    I remind you that he admitted to killing Rei, claiming that it was impossible to capture her alive. My little fable does not have room to show whether the Viridians considered it better to kill an a enemy general or let her escape, merely that they considered it murder to kill an enemy general who would be easy to capture when standing orders required the capture of enemy generals WHENEVER POSSIBLE. (I suppose I should have written "whenever practical".)

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    I probably would have a resigned expression IF I surrendered (which I am trained to NEVER do). How would I have tried to defect the mech? Not sure, but at least I would have at least tried ("Win or die trying").

    However, like I said before, I am really making fun of Rei and the fact that she surrendered so easily (or rather, has been trained to do so), especially if she knew that the enemy was now, not only not in his mech, but walking towards her unarmed.
    Like I said, first Rei surrendered to the giant war robot, then when she saw an unarmed man walking toward her to accept her surrender, she could not threaten him without threatening to violate her world's version of the Hague Convention. And if she just tried to run away she would expect Shinji to get back in his mecha and catch up to her.

    You make fun of the training you suppose that Rei received to surrender too easy. So are Air Force pilots trained to shoot it out and win or die trying if they eject and parachute to earth in the middle of an enemy battalion, or are they trained to surrender when the enemy outnumbers them so badly?

    I believe there are historical records of many air force pilots who survived being shot down and captured by the enemy and later were released and served in later wars. And I believe that Senator John McCain survived being shot down in Vietnam, and many millions who voted for him for president, and perhaps many millions who didn't, think that he served his country all these decades a lot better alive than if he was dead.

    So is this some kind of rank thing with commissioned pilots being permitted to surrender if the odds are too great, while lowly airmen are trained to fight to the death? Or is this some new rule recently introduced by enemy infiltrators to train a new generation of US soldiers to fight more fanatically and ultimately less effectively, like the Japanese in World War II?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Well, first PDA is not really apporpriate for uniformed officers (but whatever, do what you like in your "story"). Second, it is an interesting reaction to someone who is "estranged" to you because of actions by both parties (she said nasty things to him and left; her apology really doesn't change the fact the she had a hand in the reason as to why her father is "estranged" to her) and who never agreed to the conditions you gave him in the first place. Also, I find it rather funny that, while she she wouldn't them her "full effort", she became a general of Azurian army.
    So reserving a little bit of commitment to higher values like justice, honor, and mercy seems like not giving your "full effort" of skill and courage and hard work to your cause? You don't think that someone can fight with all their courage, and skill, and intelligence, and effort while considering some values even higher than winning at all costs? Again you are comparing apples and oranges. I'm sure that Rei Ikari, while honoring some things above even the Azurian cause, served it far better than Generals James Wilkinson or David "traitor" Twiggs served the US Army.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    No, that is not how it works; we have discussed this (also, you assuming that the other civilians here don't know about ranks either). As I have told you, if Shinji is called "Colonel (Shinji) Ikari", then his rank is that of "Colonel", nothing more, nothing less. If he is referred to as A "Colonel" or they or addressing him as simply "Colonel", THEN his rank could be between that of "Lieutenant Colonel" to "Colonel". Same thing with Rei: if she is called "General (Rei) Ikari", then she is a "General, nothing less. If they are addressing her or refering to her as simply "General", then her rank can vary.
    "A general officer is an officer of very high military rank. The term or equivalent is used by nearly every country in the world. General can be used as a generic term for all grades of general officer, or it can specifically refer to a single rank that is simply called general."
    Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_officer

    General can mean either a general officer of any grade or a specific rank of general.

    You have shown that Shinji Ikari should be a colonel and not a lieutenant colonel, thus making his daughter one to four ranks higher than him. I think that since she is referred to as the enemy commander, and the enemy leader, specifically at the Battle of Madnug, her being referred to as the Azurian general or the enemy general or as General Rei Ikari probably means that she is a general officer, probably a brigadier general, and not a four star general.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Also, I do not really blame you for not know how ranks work (though, since you keep throwing military history in my face, I thought it was something that you would certainly know); I have to study them and know them, you don't. So basically what you should be doing is admitting to your mistake, telling me to ignore the error and move on rather than coming up with an excuse to cover up (and let you get away with) ignorance.
    I know how military ranks work. In theory the higher ranks (and the more senior within a rank) command and the lower ranks (and the less senior within a rank) obey. And in practice some times it can get more complicated and even uncertain as to who should command. And in a specific military situation people soon learn to distinguish one rank from another among the ranks they deal with often.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    *Sigh* I am talking about the CURRENT standards for Colonel, not the ones for the 19th Century. CURRENTLY, one gets the rank of Colonel after 22 years of service and its an automatic gain of rank (meaning after 22 years of continued service, you are going to get the rank of "Colonel). And IF you became an officer at the end of college and/or ROTC or OTS (can be between 18-22 or 23 years old), then one can typically be (or expect to be) around 40+ years old when they become a "Colonel".
    In my first fable in post # 1 the characters have names from many cultures and use military ranks similar to modern US ones. Those are the only pieces of evidence suggesting that this imaginary society resembles the United States in the year 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    The ballooning in size makes sense; the acceleration of ranks does not (certainly not in ONE year). Only so many officers are needed for any amount of people. So while the amount of slots for officers might have increased, random people would not be suddenly given these ranks and certainly not to simply have people with those ranks. Otherwise, you get people like Shnji Ikari, "promoted" from nothing (with nothing) to Colonel, apparently for no other reason than to have someone with the rank of "Colonel" and nothing more.
    If all command positions have to filled they might as well be filled by officers with the usual rank for those positions. There is no harm in giving high ranks (which can be revoked if necessary) to untried officers who are going to have to be put in command anyway.

    Anyway, I think your objections are just nitpicking. You remind me of comedy scenes in which someone tries to tell a story to make a point and the listeners keep interrupting to ask for more information about minor details.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 02-05-2010 at 09:10 PM.

  7. #32
    #1Innovator xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX has a reputation beyond repute xXPainful SmilexX's Avatar
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    Your story is going on the assumption that mechas have sleep gas, nets, and other things.
    I find it more interesting to see exploding robots, bloody bodies, and lots of death. I suppose that's just my view.
    I'd much rather be K.I.A than captured honestly. Yay torture!
    " I am death and sorrow." -Acheron



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  8. #33
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamen Rider V3 Blue View Post
    Why do ya have to pick on poor Shinji Ikari hasn't he suffered enough in his OWN series?
    My post # 30 now has a new version of my fable, with Shinji Ikari replaced by a new character.

  9. #34
    Cardinal of Eden Vital Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXPainful SmilexX View Post
    Your story is going on the assumption that mechas have sleep gas, nets, and other things.
    I find it more interesting to see exploding robots, bloody bodies, and lots of death. I suppose that's just my view.
    I'd much rather be K.I.A than captured honestly. Yay torture!
    Lmao, you sounded alot different on the other thread you posted on.


    I have recently transformed into a defender of the mentally ill. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

  10. #35
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    Listen dear. Lelouch(and everyone besides people like you, and there are a few, but most focus on real life) though Euphy would be better off dead than under the Geass command or be guilty of killing all those people.
    1) Nobody can ever be better off dead,
    2) if anyone could ever be better off dead Lelouch decided that Euphemia was better off dead and acted on that decision way too fast. He didn't take enough time to gather enought information and consider it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    I don't think you should have even watch CG, miss hippie.( No offense, lol)
    Now you tell me. It's a little too late to warn me now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    You don't understand it.
    I understand it far better than any who like the series possibly could.

  11. #36
    Cardinal of Eden Vital Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    1) Nobody can ever be better off dead,
    2) if anyone could ever be better off dead Lelouch decided that Euphemia was better off dead and acted on that decision way too fast. He didn't take enough time to gather enought information and consider it.



    Now you tell me. It's a little too late to warn me now.



    I understand it far better than any who like the series possibly could.

    1. It's your opinion that people are better off alive. To me, people are better off dead. Lelouch didn't have time. He had to make a decision in just a few seconds.

    2. Sorry, I was in a bad mood the months ago, when I posted this.

    3. Yeah. riiiight You're sooo enlightened.

    Here's a story of Gundam 00 Episode 20 that reminded me of Euphy

    Anew Returner was Lyle Dylandy's girlfriend. And she was secretly an Innovator, one of the enemies. Of course, at one point, she turns on Celestial Being. and as she does, Lyle defeats her in a fight and tears her cockpit open. Instead of killing her, he tells her that he understands her. Right before she goes with him, Ribbons(The villain) takes over her mind and forces her to kill Lyle, however Setsuna destroys her mobile suit and kills her.

    Was Setsuna wrong in killing her, not capturing her?
    Last edited by Rolo Vi Britannia; 02-04-2010 at 06:51 AM.


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  12. #37
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    You think I'm nitpicking, proEuphie? Congratulations, I already alluded to that fact in my last post. Hell, the reason I started "nitpicking" was because you said that I (along with MangaFanGuy) had missed a "very important factor" in your original story and that you want us to "point it out" to you. Since your story had many holes in it (holes I pointed out, which admittedly would be nitpicking) and because YOU have the burden of proof here (since this is YOUR thread), YOU were supposed to tell us what it was if it was that important to your discussion...of course, you never told us; in fact, you simply quoted that part and never responded (you did respond to the "nitpicking", which honestly was not the point).

    In fact, I pretty much told you that BOTH of us were off-topic and that YOU should tell me this (as this is your own thread) and get back to the point, rather than respond to my post and continue your losing cycle of arguing with me if it bothered you so much(Why do you insist on arguing with someone IN THE MILITARY about how MILITARY ranks work? Don't you think you should just admit fault rather than argue?). If you didn't want me to "nitpick" at your story, WHY did you continue to respond to my posts instead of telling me to stop? Do you even remember what this thread was supposed to be about? Like I said before, I honestly do not care about the specifics in your story (really, I don't; the only reason why I respond is because I find your fighting rather amusing [a la Mavericker]) and, since your story-telling is not the best, it really does not help your thread. Just say what you are trying to say, because the stories are not helping you.

    I already know what you are alluding to: Lelouch killing Euphemia. This is ultimately what you trying to get at (you were better off doing that than starting this mess of a thread). And I have to admit this: I don't share the same feelings for Euphemia that you do. I simply don't. Not only do I not like characters like her (pseudo-pacifistic people like her, such as Relena Peacecraft, rarely do), I already knew what was going to happen to her before it actually happened. Granted, she became a much stronger and respectable person in Nightmare of Nunnally (something you honestly should read to get off this pedestal of yours), but she still isn't one of my favorite characters. If you don't want to read this, then that is your problem, although, I am not really convinced that you are a fan of Euphemia; I think you are more or less outraged that someone LIKE her died, rather being outraged that Euphemia herself died (you yourself even admitted that you didn't pay attention to her until AFTER she died), but I digress.

    In response to one of your previous posts: Should Rikira be convicted or acquitted? Well, for YOU, there is only one answer to that, isn't there?

    Since you made it clear that that question was not about legality (since we, as you pointed out, do not know the laws of this make-believe land of yours) and more about our morals, there is really only one answer that you want, an answer I can't really give because there is a chance that you withholding information from us (this is your story after all; you could easily change the circumstances if you wanted to at the click of a button) to make sure that you are in the right (this wouldn't be the first time).

    I come from a military background. I have different morals and ethics than you do (despite your efforts to be morally "in the right", you really are "darker" than you want us to think). I have a different way of seeing things than you do. I even have a different religion (if you are religious) than you (and most people for that matter). You would think that this would lead to an interesting debate. However, this is not a debate; this is a one-sided argument where you are always right (or that you have to be or trying) under every circumstance (although you hardly ever are). This is why, even you are obviously wrong about something, such as how military ranks work, you must be right. FYI, again, you may CALL a Lieutenant Colonel "Colonel" but you NEVER write their rank down that way; go ahead, since I'm apparently wrong, go try it (if it looks like I am still "nitpicking", its because I am; I don't take blatant ignorance like that very well).

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    1) Nobody can ever be better off dead,
    Not that I wholly disagree with you; its not that I entertain the thought of people dying for no reason or make the decision to kill someone whenever I can't think of something or whenever the thought tickles my fancy. However, coming to terms with the thought that I might potentially kill someone is something that I have already done. I didn't get weapons training for fun. Since I'm female, the chances for me to see frontline fighting is very slim, but the chance is still there; that's how war (especially this one) works.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    2) if anyone could ever be better off dead Lelouch decided that Euphemia was better off dead and acted on that decision way too fast. He didn't take enough time to gather enought information and consider it.
    How much time do you think he should have taken? Bare in mind, of course, that the longer it takes him to come up with a viable solution to stop Euphemia (and keep her alive) and use her as a political pawn while STILL managing to keep the Japanese happy (keeping the person who just murdered a bunch of THEIR people and working with THEIR enemy doesn't look very good), Euphemia is still running around shooting people with her gun, blowing them up (or potentially crushing them) in her Knightmare, and/or commanding other Britannian soldiers to do the same.

    Lelouch is basically letting bodies pile up (and any redemption for him and Euphemia to slowly disappear) while he tries to figure out how to save the life of the person doing the killing in THE FIRST PLACE.

    The thing with you is that you are focusing on Euphemia, ONLY Euphemia, and to hell with everybody else; its this particular mentality that I simply can't agree with. I understand that this is a cartoon (something that YOU can't seem to be able to do), but your mentality apparently applies to even real-world situations, which is mind-boggling to me. You are forgetting that, regardless of what actually caused Euphemia to go out and basically genocide, she still did it and it stops being just about her; its about her and the lives of the Japanese people, both the ones that died and the ones that survived.

    Lelouch ultimately made the decision to kill Euphemia. As I have said before, he REALLY made that decision because it was the best way to get the Japanese on his side (as that was his original plan); this was how he "used" Euphemia as a political pawn. The secondary reason (it was really more of a result, rather than a reason) was to get her to stop SHOOTING PEOPLE, not to put her out of her misery (again, its not just about Euphemia anymore). Now, I am merely explaining WHY Lelouch did what he did so that you can understand (you don't have to agree, but this fact is not that difficult to grasp). I didn't say I actually supported it (again, its a bloody cartoon). Did he make the morally right decision? Again, who knows; that's something that could lead to an endless debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Now you tell me. It's a little too late to warn me now.
    Well, as they say, "that's how the cookie crumbles", "that's the way the world works", take your pick. Usually the best anime have moral twists and turns and the ones that are the most predictable are usually the ones that are boring. Take the new anime Sands of Destruction. The main character, the heroine of the story, wants to save humanity...by destroying the world. Does that sound like the "right" thing to do? Not really. But is it more exciting and innovative than the "hero saves the world" story that has been told over and over? Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    I understand it far better than any who like the series possibly could.
    Explain, because based on the fact 1) you have admitted that you didn't even PAY ATTENTION to Euphemia until AFTER she died (even Nina did better than that), thus leading to your posts and threads to be more about morals and ethics (PERSONAL morals and ethics) and less about facts (since you tend to be either blatantly wrong or make stuff up) and 2) you haven't even SEEN the entire series, including the (NOT DEAD) Euphemia-heavy Nightmare of Nunnally, due your holier-than-thou "morals" and your obvious inability to grow up, thus leading to your very limited understanding of such Code Geass basics as "How the Geass works" or even the PLOT, I seriously doubt that you understand anything in this series, much less Euphemia's death.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 02-04-2010 at 05:27 PM.
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  13. #38
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    1. It's your opinion that people are better off alive. To me, people are better off dead. Lelouch didn't have time. He had to make a decision in just a few seconds.
    You just wrote that "people are better of dead". Do you mean that everybody is better off dead?

    Lelouch did not have to think of a plan in just a few seconds. I say he did not think of new plan in just a few seconds. I believe that the plan he followed in episode 23, which I call plan three, was a slightly revised version of his plan two, which he was plotting from the end of episode 21 and at the beginning of episode 22, until he gave it up during his meeting with Euphie.

    Lelouch would have needed to modify his plan two very slightly since the massacre was so similar to to the situation he was planning to cause. So to find a way to stop Euphemia and sava the Japanese from the Britannians and save Euphemia and get a lot of praise from the Japanese, all Lelouch had to do was remember his plan two which he had been expecting to carry out just minutes before and slightly alter it to account for the slightly different situation.

    So if Lelouch's plan two had a way to help Euphemia escape from being lynched by the angry Japanese he could have used it in plan three with slight modifications to save Euphemia from being lynched by angry Japanese after the massacre.

    Thus I suspect that Lelouch's plan three involved sacrificing innocent Euphemia's life in the hope of political gain because his plan two involved sacrificing innocent Euphemia's life in the hope of political gain. And that makes Lelouch too evil to care about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    2. Sorry, I was in a bad mood the months ago, when I posted this.
    I'm glad you apologize but I'm not sure what you are apologized for. I was just pointing out that your advice was over a year too late and I will never be able to forget that accursed show, Code Geass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    3. Yeah. riiiight You're sooo enlightened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    Here's a story of Gundam 00 Episode 20 that reminded me of Euphy

    Anew Returner was Lyle Dylandy's girlfriend. And she was secretly an Innovator, one of the enemies. Of course, at one point, she turns on Celestial Being. and as she does, Lyle defeats her in a fight and tears her cockpit open. Instead of killing her, he tells her that he understands her. Right before she goes with him, Ribbons(The villain) takes over her mind and forces her to kill Lyle, however Setsuna destroys her mobile suit and kills her.

    Was Setsuna wrong in killing her, not capturing her?
    Your story is either way too long or way too short. If Setsuna could have captured Anew Returner alive in time to save Lyle, and knew it, or even believed he had a good chance to, then all you had to write was :

    "In Gundam Seed 00 Setsuna killed Anew Returner when he could probably have stopped her in time to save Lyle without killing her. Was Setsuna wrong in killing her, not capturing her?" And I would have written : 'YES SETSUNA WAS WRONG TO KILL HER INSTEAD OF CAPTURING HER!!!"

    But if there was some reason why capturing her in time to stop her from killing Lyle was impossible or very difficult you should have mentioned it. That might make the question more complicated. But you did not mention any such factor.

    If she already killed Lyle before Setsuna could do anything, then it was his duty to capture her if he could, letting her fate be decided later. If he was not in a hurry to save Lyle there was no reason to kill her if capturing her would be just as easy and as safe for him and thus self defense could not be used as a justification for killing her.

    No one can ever be right to kill anyone if it is just as safe, and fast and easy for him to capture that person, and if there is no scientific (or more likely science fictional) reason why that person would be dangerous to other people if alive and confined. For example, if that person was infested with larvae of a super alien predator and those larvae would soon eat their way out of his body and spread across the planet eating everybody they found it would be right to kill instead of capture him. Or if he was infected with a 100 % fatal uncurable disease which was about to enter the air born stage and infect everyone around him. But except in such rare situations it is always murder to kill someone you can capture just as easy and as safely as you could kill them.

    Anyway, I have doubts whether any good person in Setsuna's position should have lifted a finger to save Lyle or any other member of Celestial Being. Not after episode 11, in which Allelujah went on a mission to destroy the facility where he was turned into a super soldier and blew it up along with the current class of children, apparently following the original plan approved by the rest of Celestial Being. Unless there is some proof that it was absolutely necessary to destroy the facility right then in order to save countless millions of lives, and it was technically impossible for Celestrial Being to find a way to not kill the children, that action was a war crime and the murder of several children. After episode 11 I lost all interest in Gundam 00 for lack of protagonists who met my minimum standards of goodness..
    Last edited by proEuphie; 02-05-2010 at 09:27 PM.

  14. #39
    Senior Member MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy's Avatar
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    Well I've been staying away from debates like these.
    But I think some nitpicking is in order

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Some posters have found fault with my parable of the trial of Shinji Ikari. So here is a new parable, which I hope will be a little less easy to nitpick.
    actually it is waaaaay easier to nitpick
    I will point out both contradictions and failed analogies to Euphemia

    note all BOLD prints are quotes from your story
    Standing orders say that whenever possible an enemy leader of the rank of leader-of-five-thousand or above must be captured to be used as a hostage to stop the battle.
    this makes it less like euphemia
    Cos no such order was in effect with her
    And killing a defenseless enemy instead of capturing her is clearly an act of murder, punishable by death."
    Defenceless?
    but
    "her gun in her holster"
    she is armed and so not defenceless
    despite the fact that she was unarmed with any weapon that could harm your mecha and just a couple of dozen feet away from your mecha?"
    ah but this is rendered irrelevant because
    "Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira, appeared on the ground and walked toward the Azurian"
    he was no longer in his mecha
    She was armed with a weapon that could have killed him
    The fact it couldn't harm his mecha was irrelevant when he LEFT his mecha
    (At the very least you could have him brought up on charges of negligence or dereliction of duty (I'm sure wolfgirl could give a better charge for this act))
    I had no malice or criminal intent toward her.”
    proven by this
    "He hugged her back"
    "his posture indicating he was feeling extreme emotions"
    Prosecutor Butomon: “That letter from the deceased, Azurian Leader-of-five-thousand Eri Rikira, was found in the possessions of the accused, Leader-of-a-thousand Irshin Rikira -- her father.”
    and changes nothing.
    So the enemy was feeling down
    boohoo
    this is not an excuse to allow high level enemy soldiers to escape
    on the charges of murdering the hundreds of Viridians
    wait he is being charged with murder for what other people did????

    What kind of screwy law is that?
    slaughtered without mercy by the followers of Leader-of-five-thousand Rikira when they heard that she had been killed
    how is that his fault.
    Is this guy a mind reader?
    Does he know that if he does X then 100's of civilians would die
    no
    therefore NOT GUILTY!
    The Azurian mecha fumbled for its lasso
    Lasso
    can anyone say "impractical mecha weapon"
    They clanged together. The hand of the Viridian mecha came into view, grabbing a power pack out of a pouch on the side of the Azurian mecha.
    so they have compatible weapons systems?
    A figure in a green and black Viridian flight suit, apparently Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira, appeared on the ground and walked toward the Azurian, his pistol still in its holster.
    again stupid move
    all defence of "She couldn't hurt him cos he was in a mecha" goes out the window
    about the best you got is gross stupidity
    Every one watching the tape wished that it had sound so they could hear what was going on. Suddenly the Viridian pushed the Azurian away. She fell to the ground and picked herself unsteadily up. The Viridian snatched his gun out of his holster and pointed toward her. Bright blue blood sprayed in all directions from between the Viridian and the Azurian. She fell writhing to the ground and rolled.
    congratulations
    I suppose you could also argue insubordination for not following orders
    but not murder (Killing an armed combatant who as far as we know has not surrendered in any way is not murder)
    Her living or dead body and the surrounding ground exploded, blasted by the Viridian mega-cannon.
    ok the megaconon is overkill
    and not comparible to Euphemia (Who was still alive)

    Prosecutor Butomon: “End play.”
    You don’t know anything about the laws of this fictional world, but based on your sense of right and wrong, do you believe that someone who does what Leader-of-a-thousand Rikira did should be convicted or acquitted?
    Aquitted of murder yes
    however courtmarshalled for disobeying orders, negligence, gross stupidity and sheer overkill would probably result in dishonorable discharge.

    and lets list why this is nothing like Euphemia
    -1/No orders to capture
    -2/No weapons for prisoner capture on Lelouchs mecha
    -3/Euphemia was ordering the massacre of every enemy she encountered and would continue to do so unless stopped (This is the thought at the time)
    -4/Euphemia was in the act of killing civilians when confronted
    -5/Euphemia wasn't a hot alien chick
    -6/Considering her normal nature and the realities imposed by the Geass then capturing Euphemia could be seen as cruel and unusual punishment (No such thing for Eri?)
    Last edited by MangaFanGuy; 02-05-2010 at 03:47 AM.

  15. #40
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    You just wrote that "people are better of dead". Do you mean that everybody is better off dead?
    Since I'm a Christian, I think so. Anyway, I think that dead is better than captured. Dead is definitely better than Geass zombied.

    Lelouch did not have to think of a plan in just a few seconds. I say he did not think of new plan in just a few seconds. I believe that the plan he followed in episode 23, which I call plan three, was a slightly revised version of his plan two, which he was plotting from the end of episode 21 and at the beginning of episode 22, until he gave it up during his meeting with Euphie.
    In Lelouch plan, he did not want Euphy to die. He just wanted the Japanese people to get mad and leave. Not murder her. He most likely thought Suzaku would have protected her in that case.

    Lelouch would have needed to modify his plan two very slightly since the massacre was so similar to to the situation he was planning to cause. So to find a way to stop Euphemia and sava the Japanese from the Britannians and save Euphemia and get a lot of praise from the Japanese, all Lelouch had to do was remember his plan two which he had been expecting to carry out just minutes before and slightly alter it to account for the slightly different situation.
    His plans none of his plans contained voilence on that scale. On episode 22, he says "Don't make me..." When Euphy's stars killing people.

    I'm glad you apologize but I'm not sure what you are apologized for. I was just pointing out that your advice was over a year too late and I will never be able for forget that accursed show, Code Geass.
    Okay then. I take it back. I thought you were talking about me insulting you. Lol, "accursed show"


    Your story is either way too long or way too short. If Setsuna could have captured Anew Returner alive in time to save Lyle, and knew it, or even believed he had a good chance to, then all you had to write was
    For on thing, it's not Gundam seed 00. It's Gundam 00.
    I've only seen it once, but I'm pretty sure there was no time. And it's wasn't as long as YOUR story.


    Anyway, I have doubts whether any good person in Setsuna's position should have lifted a finger to save Lyle or any other member of Celestrial Being. Not after episode 11, in which Allelujah went on a mission to destroy the facility where he was turned into a super soldier and blew it up along with the current class of children, apparently following the original plan approved by the rest of Celestrial Being. Unless there is some proof that it was absolutely necessary to destroy the facility right then in order to save countless millions of lives, and it was technically impossible for Celestrial Being to find a way to not kill the children, that action was a war crime and the murder of several children. After episode 11 I lost all interest in Gundam 00.
    You did NOT just say that to me! An extreme Allelujah fan. That's one of the best episodes of the first season. That scene made me fall in LOVE with that show.
    The plan to destroy the lab was approved by Veda, a computer. It's Celestial Being's job to obey all of Veda's commands. Allelujah wanted to destroy the lab because they were promoting war, and he was raised in the lab. Not to mention everyone with Quantum Brainwaves were screwed up. They all have second personalities. Allelujah tried to think of a way to save the kids, but Hallelujah gave him no choice. It was either you blow it up, or I do. That was pretty much what he said. Not to mention just being around another super soldiers made Allelujah very weak due to the pain Quantum Brainwaves caused him. Plus, if he wouldn't have done it, Tieria Erde, another Gundam pilot would have shot him himself, or he would have done it, since on the first season, Tieria didn't care about humans.

    By the way, here. This is what proEuphie reminds me of.
    +
    ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
    Last edited by Rolo Vi Britannia; 02-05-2010 at 09:39 AM.


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  16. #41
    Would You Kindly
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    Isn't this thread like: "Euphemia's Murder?"
    ---
    MEMENTO MORI,
    IF THE NINETH LION ATE THE SUN.



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    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xRiikox View Post
    Isn't this thread like: "Euphemia's Murder?"
    It is now, but that wasn't proEuphie's original intention (though she can barely keep her own threads in check, so hardly ever know what her intentions are).

    What proEuphie was trying to do was inquire about anime characters who used their mechs to capture people, since she is convinced that mechs should be equipped with ways of capturing people alive instead of killing them. She even made a little "story" (if it can be called such) to illustrate her point.

    However, since it was SO obvious that she was talking Euphemia's death more than anything else, that's how we ended up talking about that instead of mechs.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    It is now, but that wasn't proEuphie's original intention (though she can barely keep her own threads in check, so hardly ever know what her intentions are).

    What proEuphie was trying to do was inquire about anime characters who used their mechs to capture people, since she is convinced that mechs should be equipped with ways of capturing people alive instead of killing them. She even made a little "story" (if it can be called such) to illustrate her point.

    However, since it was SO obvious that she was talking Euphemia's death more than anything else, that's how we ended up talking about that instead of mechs.
    I doubt that she's watched any other mecha anime other than Code Geass

    Well mechs were first created in anime (from my point of view) to destroy things. Attack stuff. Kill people. A symbol of mankind's advancement in technology. But with our peace-loving friend here, they're made to safely capture people? I don't know about that.

    She's way too obsessed with Euphemia's death (as many other people than myself have said Before).
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    Quote Originally Posted by xRiikox View Post
    I doubt that she's watched any other mecha anime other than Code Geass
    Considering her rather lax knowledge about most of the other anime that she has talked about, I don't think she has really watched ANY other anime besides Code Geass (and like this show and Gundam 00, she probably coped out half way through).

    Quote Originally Posted by xRiikox View Post
    Well mechs were first created in anime (from my point of view) to destroy things. Attack stuff. Kill people. A symbol of mankind's advancement in technology. But with our peace-loving friend here, they're made to safely capture people? I don't know about that.
    Even today, tanks are not equipped with special equipment to capture enemies. "Capturing" people really isn't an objective; its usually a side-effect of some other action but we don't decide "Hey, let's capture some people today".

    Quote Originally Posted by xRiikox View Post
    She's way too obsessed with Euphemia's death (as many other people than myself have said Before).
    The obsession, in and of itself, is not what I truly have a problem with; I can understand the obsession with Euphemia, although I simply disagree with it, what with my desire to she her get shot in the face (characters like Euphemia are just annoying to me). However, the constant whining about her death is the issue. She not just talking about Euphemia, but talking SOLELY about her death, as if it was the most important thing that happened in the series.

    While I can understand why a Euphemia-fan would be upset about her death, one should be over it by now (its a freaking cartoon; like I said before, there are children who read Harry Potter and got over the deaths in that series much faster). After almost two years, it not that much of a shock anymore (and considering that Euphemia was brought back in Nightmare of Nunnally, no Euphemia fan should be whining anymore). At this point, I simply do not care and instead of trying to understand proEuphie's point I actually want to see Euphemia being torn apart by lions as per her namesake.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

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