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Thread: Say you like SEED and he likes Wing, WHAT made you like the series?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy's Avatar
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    Default Say you like SEED and he likes Wing, WHAT made you like the series?

    I PERSONALY like Wing for everything it stands from characters to the mecha designs, but it'll be easier to make a list:

    REASONS.

    1. Great suits. The Wing and all its ideas, (Wing Zero, Wing Zero Custom) has a special place in my heart. Same with the DS, HA, SR, SL, Epyon, and TG.

    2. Unique Weapons. Ok, maybe not as unique as the crazy abilities in G Gundam, but each of the 5 Gundams has a unique weapon to go with their name. Beam Scythe/Scissors for Deathscythe, Heat Shotels for Sandrock, Heavyarms is a walking artillery, Dragon Fangs and Flamthrower for Nataku/Shenlong, and who can forget the Buster Rifle/Twin Buster Rifles for Wing/Wing Zero. In SEED, Everyday is free beam rifle/saber day...

    3. Unforgetable Characters. Each character seems like they were from different spy movies and ran across a Gundam. The infiltrations and quick wits, FIVE STARS. Great example is how Heero got into the Libra, or when Trowa was playing both sides in EW. Still, can't forget Treize and Zechs. All has their own unique attitude which is why they're all full of awesomeness. Heero is a machine. Trowa is an Acrobat. Duo is a clown. Quattre is a pacifist. Wuffei is a warrior. Zechs is an ace. Treize is a noble. Never have I seen a Gundam show where they have these kind of people in one package. (Except maybe G. XP)

    4. Unpredictable Plot. "Quattre? Piloting Zero? Wait, now Wuffei? Duo? Trowa? Zechs?!?! WTF?!?!? I thought Zero was Heero's suit?" I get that a lot from those new to Wing and they already watched Seed, G, and the other series. Take note that in Wing, there is no such thing as "fixed." Switching suits, fighting with allies, all have their reason. Heck, Wuffei with Treize's daughter or Zechs fighting WITH the Gundam pilots? The thrill never ends and will keep you in your toes.

    5. Great Opening, Ending, and yes, Even the BGMs. Not sure if you'll agree with me, but the songs from Wing are special. Do also note that most of the titles end with "oin". Last Impression, Rthym Emotion, Just Communication, Love Revolution XP. SEED and its sequel probably tops when it comes to the music, but Wing songs left something in me. Just Communication is the first anime song I've heard. Now, for the BGM. Each BGM in Wing goes well with the scene. One example: Heero transformed to Bird Mode when he saw the OZ shuttle taking off. The BGM is like rushing Heero to catch up with it. Can't fully explain it.

    There may be more, but I'm just not thinking of it now...




    ______
    "I'll kill Zechs. That's my way of saying thanks." -Heero Yuy

  2. #2
    Senior Member Red Phantoms is just really nice Red Phantoms is just really nice Red Phantoms is just really nice Red Phantoms is just really nice Red Phantoms is just really nice Red Phantoms's Avatar
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    well to be honnest i like UC timeline series better

    why

    1 because UC timeline series story is more rich and interesting despite its old school graphic well dont blame the current technology when it was made though

    2 CE (SEED n SEED D) Its the worst gundam ive ever seen because it make Gundam seems like super robot (ie Strike Freedom) well i still tolerate SEED but not after strike freedom shows up. and for SEED D i hate it because it almost like the duplicate of Z Gundam its too lame

    3 For wing i didnt like it too much but i dont hate it either so it was so so for me

    well it just my opinion but it seems SEED is famous for female and Gundam beginner fans

    why because its bishounen chara, fan service, and better graphic than UC series (well actualy 70% of my friend watch it just for its fan service)

    as for Wing, its rating was good because it was the first Gundam that being broadcast in worldwide (specially America)

    well thats my opinion and i didnt mean to offense for both fan of wing and SEED
    Last edited by Red Phantoms; 09-18-2009 at 03:31 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Seems everyone misunderstood this thread. This is open to ALL the series from Mobile Suit Gundam to Gundam 00. Just give opinions. The U.C. era has many series: Origin, Blue Destiny, Side Story, F91, Victory, CCA, 8th MS Team, Stardust Memory, War in The Pocket, ETC. Can you please specify on a specific series and tell why you like it out of all? No need to make it debatable.



    _____
    "I'll kill Zechs. That's my way of saying thanks." -Heero Yuy
    Last edited by Heer0Yuy; 09-19-2009 at 07:03 AM.

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    Senior Member J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam's Avatar
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    As a long-time GW fan, I actually have to answer this question from a few perspectives.

    When I watched GW for the first time when it premiered on Toonami, I was immediately attracted to it simply because there was nothing like it on TV. I was only 10 years old at the time so the MS and battles were all I really focused on. The plot and politics went over my head but I was drawn to characters like Duo(mainly because of his wisecracks) and Heero(the smooth operator). Toonami's epic promos alone got me excited to watch the show. I enjoyed the music too. I knew nothing of UC at the time.

    Two years ago, I decided to re-watched GW from start to finish and this time, REALLY got into it. The music and certain scenes provided great nostalgia but a lot of things were new to me. Episodes like "Scenario for Bloodshed" and "Duo, God of Death Once Again" made me appreciate the series all the more. The politics, characters and the various factions all became very interesting to me. Duo is still a favorite of mine but Wufei became my favorite character due to all the trials he went through during the series. Even a minor, one-episode character like Walker became a favorite of mine.

    However, I was still unaware of UC until about 6 months later. I went onto various forums only to see how GW was considered "garbage" by a lot of Gundam fans. I didn't start watching UC series till earlier this year. I now see why many people don't like GW but I STILL love it.

  5. #5
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    Well I liked G Gundam,Zeta Gundam and Gundam Seed the most


    What?I enjoy some shojo series/characters...

  6. #6
    Senior Member Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy's Avatar
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    Amen J Gundam. Hella people treat Wing as garbage, but as a true Gundam fan, I would NEVER abandon the first series I watched I.E, I prefer Yugioh duel monsters over GX any day. Wing had me hypnotised. And I love everything it stands for. For you it's Wufei. He is also a favorite of a friend of mine. Many say he's a jerk, but Heero is probably who I'll be if I get to be a Gundam pilot. He is so bad! I mean, he self-destructed without any concern for his own life. That is something I would do. I am very persistent when it comes to achieving my goals, just as he is focused with his missions. Don't mistake me. I love the Wing cast like they were my family. Heero just touched me more than anyone else did. By the way, that friend of mine who is a Wuffei fan, said his favorite weapon is the Dragon Fangs from Shenlong/Altron respectively. Twin Buster Rifles for me!!




    _____
    "I'll kill Zechs. That's my way of saying thanks." -Heero Yuy

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    I gotta admit the weapon and mech designs for Wing were jaw dropping 10 years ago and even now. I love Gundam Seed to death mainly because of the story and the depth of the characters but Wing tops it in the mechs department and a little bit in the battles department as well. Amuro is still the best pilot out all pilots in Gundam, don't forget that!

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    I prefer Yugioh duel monsters over GX any day
    Wing is the Yugioh GX to G Gundam and earlier :P


    Char's Counterattack:

    1.) Most epic MS Duel (Nu Gundam vs Sazabi), 2 Aces duking it out from funnel dogfights, pilot vs pilot battling, Nu Gundam going up against Sazabi's dual wield using HtH combat and how they were matched til the end. This battle wasn't decided by interruptions, one side retreating, one side being overpowered or anything that would disturb the true epic of battle, more and more stripped of their weapons and nerves, they duke it out until both are empty handed going down and dirty. This may just an opinion of mine, but it has also been openly expressed as best battle by CLAMP (CC Sakura, xxxHolic, Tsubasa Reservoire Chronicles, X, the list goes on...), Nobuhiro Watsuki (Rurouni Kenshin, Busou Renkin, etc.) and many other artists, being great storywriters themselves. No other Gundam series has an even closely exalted battle or scene - guess why.

    2.) Unique Weapons and Projectile Weapons: Who the heck thinks of Scythes and BFGs as unique weapons in anything nowadays? Let aside those silly Freudian phallic compensation weapons, enter Fin Funnels! We've had bits, we've had funnels, we've had remote weapons, but the way they launch, the way they behave and dance around, scatter into all directions, how a single funnel can match an ace in a dogfight (as it is mind controlled by an ace after all) - and yet it didn't forget the simple coolness gunfire has. I personally don't like pure laserfests, projectile weapons just give a touch of grasp of realism.

    3.) Authentic Characters: They aren't just your sorry excuse of character variation (we've all had plenty of combinations of stuff like hero guy, warrior race hothead, mild giant, action girl, the sophisticated guy, the genius, the converted ex-bad guy etc.), they are characters with human flaws including ones typically avoided in media (Amuro loving Chen while still not being able to let go to Lalah). From Amuro and Char up on the top cast to Astonaige Medoz and Rezun Schneider among the less important characters, they aren't stereotypes, nor are they over the top with a type of personality to fake uniqueness for the naive (the always happy guy, the always emotionless guy, the always serene girl, the always happy-go-lucky kid, etc.)

    4.) The Climax: You know how it is, after all the back story, all the build up, you're about to witness the grand finale! The return of the Jedi! Godzilla vs Mothra! And Tomino himself works on it after sitting out for so long, it better not disappoint! A spectacular finale with an epic buildup just cannot be matched. Things that make this climax epic include:

    -UC Hero fail rate: Youp've seen happy ends... but then again you've seen the hero's girlfriends die, you've seen protagonists ending up as human vegetables, you've even seen protagonists completely failing their objectives! This type of buildup is unique to the UC and simply not present to most metaverses out there; you simply don't know if the protagonist or the antagonist will win, you can't say for sure if the end will be happy or sad - "the good guy is going to save the day" just isn't a rule in UC, making a true unpredictable ending. Neo Zeon might have just been the absolute winner.

    -Return of the Magnificent Bastard: thanks for warming the seat Treize, Scirocco Glemmy and Haman, but don't get too comfortable because Char's back, we've seen him play the Zabis in MSG (Blame it on the misfortune of your ,birth!), we've seen him doing all it takes to stop the Titans in Zeta (Shame is something for humans!), and now he's in full control! Can he be stopped? Do you even *want* him to be stopped? This guy can rival L in popularity - while Deathnote was at its peak. You thought you know a deep, badass, authentic, charismatic rival character? Multiply his awesomeness level by 3; now you're getting close to Char.

    -Epic Warfare: See Jegans break up Neo Zeon formations using their grenades and procede with picking off the scattered forces, Bright giving it all to break the axis down and duking it out in the art of war with Char; feints, heavy artillery, ruses, sabotage missions, the level of strategy battle added to the personal battles just adds to it all.

    -Drrrrrrrrama!: Gyunei! Quess! Hathaway! Chen! Lalah! Adenauer! Cameron! How emotions turn a human, you see it here bare naked.

    5.) The Music: What TM network was singing there wasn't just your bread and butter pop - those do sound good, but after 'Just communication', 'Fly in the Sky' and the like simply follow the rule of cool of pop music, 'Beyond the Time' goes in a cooled rythm - and still sounds appealing without going about with a frantic pace. But too bad it still couldn't match to the level of Gundam's true musical pWnage*

    6.) The MS: Nu Gundam's Fin Funnel Pack, the awesomeness of Sazabi's design, Jegans and Geara Dougas, they didn't just go "make something very spikey/blocky/streamlined and it'll look good", the hero didn't get the super infinity +1 golden unit of godlike with frills of justice (as done so often, I'm looking at you Sailor Moon... with *wings* on that sailor suit...), but a reasonable yet strong unit and the fodder armies are done absolutely great; they are new, yet familiarly "federation style" and "zeon style".

    *Gundam's true musical pWnage: "Ai Senshi", the complete opposite of the fast paced pop that would easily appeal a large demographic of anime fans - defeating all music featured in any other gundam metaverse on the anime music poll, including all SEED songs which were highest on actuality during that time.

    Invoke? Dreams? Fly in the Sky? White Reflection? Stand up to the victory? thou hath been bested and smitten by Ai Senshi:
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    Last edited by B Gundam; 09-21-2009 at 09:49 AM.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heer0Yuy View Post
    By the way, that friend of mine who is a Wuffei fan, said his favorite weapon is the Dragon Fangs from Shenlong/Altron respectively. Twin Buster Rifles for me!!
    The Altron's dragon fangs were cool but I personally like the trident. Part of me doesn't like how easily Wufei seemed to destroy OZ/Romefellar forces but I also can't deny how Wufei ruthlessly laid waste to numerous mobile dolls towards the end of the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    2.) Unique Weapons and Projectile Weapons: Who the heck thinks of Scythes and BFGs as unique weapons in anything nowadays? Let aside those silly Freudian phallic compensation weapons, enter Fin Funnels! We've had bits, we've had funnels, we've had remote weapons, but the way they launch, the way they behave and dance around, scatter into all directions, how a single funnel can match an ace in a dogfight (as it is mind controlled by an ace after all) - and yet it didn't forget the simple coolness gunfire has. I personally don't like pure laserfests, projectile weapons just give a touch of grasp of realism.
    I haven't watched Char's Counterattack yet but the Fin Funnels sound very similar to the "planet defensors" the Mercurius and Virgos featured in GW.
    Last edited by J Gundam; 09-21-2009 at 03:19 PM.

  10. #10
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    I haven't watched Char's Counterattack yet but the Fin Funnels sound very similar to the "planet defensors" the Mercurius and Virgos featured in GW.
    Yeah you're right, but while CCA came before GW and they may have ripped it from there, but of the many things that came before GW, the idea of planet defensors could have been taken from Victory as well, where the mega beam shield only does the shielding function. But neither those just go in circular motions near the unit and both the beam shield and the fin funnels are usually more versatile, and planet defensors its a bit too much a "basic forcefield generator" thing to really count it as ripped from fin funnels.
    Last edited by B Gundam; 09-21-2009 at 07:05 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Just to expand on some things that make GW my favorite Gundam series.

    Characters: On the surface, it's easy to GW's characters stale archetypes. However, a closer look reveals they are very complex and different from previous Gundam characters. Wufei breaking down after Treize died is a perfect example. In EW, Wufei continues to walk the path of a warrior rather than accept ideals that would render him useless.

    Duo is interesting in his own way too. His happy-go-lucky nature is simply a mask for a troubled soul. A great Duo scene is where he wonders aloud what "true peace" really in front of Hilde only to pretend he never said anything. Finally, the minor characters of the series draw in the viewer. Characters such as Walker, Count Townsend and Otto make an impression on you with their resolve despite being enemies of the Gundams.

    Music: The music is definitely one of my favorite parts of GW. I love the songs Two-Mix provided but Kō Ōtani's OST was on another level. His work in Gundam Wing is absolutely amazing; particularly in the first half of the series. At times I felt certain tracks were made for a particular scene. However, after hearing the same track in another scene, I realized the true quality of some of the themes.

    Philosophy: This has received a TON of debate and while there were moments where the characters spewed out nonsense, there were also moments of truth that can't be denied. The various contrasting beliefs between characters like Relena, Dorothy, Quatre and Treize are a welcome change to some of the seemingly random battles in the series.

    Politics: The politics of the show really shines when Lady Une travels to colonies during their "liberation" from the Alliance's control. Even though the Gundams were fighting for them, the colonies representatives were easily manipulated into denouncing Gundams and taking up arms. Duke Dermail is embodiment of the greed and corruption associated with politics and ironically his schemes to gain more power backfire and eventually lead to his death.

    Mobile Suits: Besides the Gundams themselves, the standard mobile suits definitely had their charms. The various custom Leos were cool and even though the space Leos were completely outclassed later in the series, they were my favorite. Suits like the Tallgeese I & III, Mercurius and Taurus were also among my favorites.

    Again, I understand GW has undeniable flaws(every series does) and it's very different from previous series. I personally don't see why it's differences should be a reason for criticism but that won't change. There are elements that I wish the creators had done better, less or more off but to me, GW is still a great series.

  12. #12
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    I'll be rambling about four shows in this thread - four of my favorite gundam shows.

    First and foremost, the greatest OVA series of the said franchise, the one who lived up to its hype and still does. None other than...

    Char's Counterattack:

    CHARACTERS - The title pretty much says it all - Char Aznable, the GREATEST CHARACTER in all of anime in terms of both popularity and characterization, our titular antagonist is back with an epic vengeance. Not only do we have mister CHARisma here, we also see the return of his long-time rival Amuro Ray, a character who also happens to be among anime's all-time greats. Add along both returning and new characters like Bright Noa, Chan Agi, and several other characters with varying levels of importance. This is 1988, when 'boybands' haven't ruined the scene and the franchise YET, when character depth was more important than lousy stereotyping.

    Yes, 'boybands' so that the girl (or boy) in front of the television could get her daily dose of eye-candy and fuel her fangirl (or fanboy) needs." Oh, that acrobat's (Trowa) so sexy!" "Oh, that boy's gonna save his girl (Garrod and Tiffa), how cute!" Not.... (Gundam X was OKAY tho..)

    Yes, stereotyping so that the boy (or girl) in front of the television could have something or someone to relate to in at least one of the characters. "Like Duo, i laugh to hide my problems." "I'm rash and impulsive, I'm Cagalli!" Yeah right...

    Not only does it feature 'real' robots but 'real' characters as well.

    MOBILE SUITS - Seeing Char and Amuro return is one thing, seeing Char and Amuro return with Sazabi and Nu Gundam to boast is epic. The design of the Nu Gundam remains simple yet still sleek and classic while the design of the Sazabi commands attention by being so bad-a**. Plain and simple, the designs of the said mecha, add along Guss and Paraya's grand looking Jagd Doga, Quess' unconventional yet creatively-designed Alpha Azieru, and some others were master-class.

    This is a time when the demand for model kits ain't as booming as that of today. That being said, the mech designs in Char's Counterattack were designed with little or no thought of model kit production.

    The designs had flair but not flamboyant: Wing Zero Custom or Heavy Arms Custom (take note of how it moves) anyone?

    The suits had no 'boyish-cool' appeal: Deathscythe Hell or Nataku anyone?

    The suits in Char's Counterattack were mainly designed for the show, not for the toy racks of collectors and kids alike.

    But as far as toy and kit sales are concerned, i'm a collector and take note of this: Sazabi remains one of the most over-priced (for a reason of course) and sought-after model kits (whatever grade or scale it is) to date.

    WEAPONRY - Plain and simple and in classic UC fashion: Funnels, mega particle guns, projectiles, yadda yadda yadda. It's a 'real' robot show and the weapons remain as 'real' as they're supposed to be. Again, flair OVER flamboyance.

    VISUALS - The visuals were great despite relative simplicity, the animation was fluid enough. It still looks better visually than a lot of anime that came after it, throughout the 90s and the '00s. 'Nuff said.

    MUSIC - I agree about the musical greatness of this show. The musical scores blended well with the scenes and greatly amplified the drama. Ai Senshi was great, a melodramatic tune which slowly progressed to a mildly-upbeat manner as the song went on, perfect. Ditch the upbeat and fast-paced pop common not only in the gundam franchise but also in anime. So rarely do we see an anime with musical scores that blended well with it, Char's Counterattack is one of those rare gems.

    PLOT - Again, in classic UC fashion: deep, melodramatic, somewhat tragic, and intellectually compelling.

    Finally, THE DUEL - I won't ramble on much about it since somebody else already gave a clear view of it. Not only does it remain the most epic duel in Gundam and mecha but also in the world of anime as well. With its great mix of drama, action, visual presentation, yadda yadda yadda, this battle screams greatness.
    Last edited by The Grey Crane; 09-23-2009 at 06:57 AM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam's Avatar
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    Characters: On the surface, it's easy to GW's characters stale archetypes. However, a closer look reveals they are very complex and different from previous Gundam characters.
    You mean stereotypes. Archetype is the first ones doing it, giving them all the rights to do it (Mazinger Z firing rocket punches), Stereotypes are the simplified cliches that just happen to repeat itself everywhere (every other giant robot firing rocket punches). While there is never a complete stereotype (unless for comical reasons), they can still be clearly cliched.

    <="perfectly original characters" amirite? *cough*

    Duo is interesting in his own way too. His happy-go-lucky nature is simply a mask for a troubled soul. A great Duo scene is where he wonders aloud what "true peace" really in front of Hilde only to pretend he never said anything.
    I agree on that, because for once, freudian excuse (had a sad past) was used for someone being the super-happy-guy instead of the villain. While that at least covers the outline, its still 2 cliches pressed up, so your mileage may vary.

    Philosophy: This has received a TON of debate and while there were moments where the characters spewed out nonsense, there were also moments of truth that can't be denied. The various contrasting beliefs between characters like Relena, Dorothy, Quatre and Treize are a welcome change to some of the seemingly random battles in the series.
    Obvious truths are part of nonsensicalness of the debates. People don't complain that what they say is false, which would be subverted by undeniable truths. Ash saying war among Pokemon is bad is an example. Its an undeniable truth that if pokemon fight to kill eachother they get hurt and its bad. But do you think its philosophically sophisticated?

    Again, I understand GW has undeniable flaws(every series does) and it's very different from previous series. I personally don't see why it's differences should be a reason for criticism but that won't change. There are elements that I wish the creators had done better, less or more off but to me, GW is still a great series.
    Yeah they be racist to GW cuz its different :P
    The main problem was it wasn't different enough; it went with similiar outlines making it legible for comparison (in contrast to G gundam, which gets a free-from-comparisons card to any universe but GW, which got stuck halfway) but often differed on parts that were otherwise original and thus, differed to a major extent by omitting good things.
    Last edited by B Gundam; 09-23-2009 at 07:13 AM.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    You mean stereotypes. Archetype is the first ones doing it, giving them all the rights to do it (Mazinger Z firing rocket punches), Stereotypes are the simplified cliches that just happen to repeat itself everywhere (every other giant robot firing rocket punches). While there is never a complete stereotype (unless for comical reasons), they can still be clearly cliched.
    My mistake. I used the wrong word. However, there are stereotypes THROUGHOUT anime and definitely throughout Gundam. There are stereotypes in MSG, G Gundam, 0080, 0083 etc. I find it incredible how exclusive fans of UC will calmly ignore the stereotypes in that timeline and then label the characters in GW stereotypes.


    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    Obvious truths are part of nonsensicalness of the debates. People don't complain that what they say is false, which would be subverted by undeniable truths. Ash saying war among Pokemon is bad is an example. Its an undeniable truth that if pokemon fight to kill eachother they get hurt and its bad. But do you think its philosophically sophisticated?
    There were moments of philosophical sophistication. I don't remember any "obvious truths" being spouted. Relena felt war couldn't bring about true peace, Zechs and Heero disagreed whiles Dorothy simply romanticized war. If you can find a instance where a character said something that supposed to be deep but was completely obvious, share it.


    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    Yeah they be racist to GW cuz its different :P
    The main problem was it wasn't different enough; it went with similiar outlines making it legible for comparison (in contrast to G gundam, which gets a free-from-comparisons card to any universe but GW, which got stuck halfway) but often differed on parts that were otherwise original and thus, differed to a major extent by omitting good things.
    You just contradicted yourself! You say "it wasn't different enough" and in the same breath say "it differed to a major extent". GW can't win either way. It's too different one minute but has too many stereotypes and ideas that have already been used another minute. THAT'S WHAT GUNDAM IS ALL ABOUT! As much we all love the franchise, there are similar characters and ideas throughout multi-verse.

    And what "good things" did GW omit? Zakus? LOL!

  15. #15
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    Let me join the Wing discussion...

    Nobody's denying the existence of stereotypes in Gundam and in anime's entirety anyway, delusional purists are an exception of course. Yeah stereotypes are present all throughout anime, even the long-considered 'most innovative' ones like Space Battleship Yamato and Mobile Suit Gundam itself. So what's the problem? What makes Wing vulnerable to such criticism and labeling? - Its very core.

    When the essence and core elements of something is obviously cliche and stereotypical, that's got to be a problem.

    I never saw GW turn into something 'too different'. Wing has a serious case of identity crisis, the mobile suit designs are clearly fleshed out from tradition yet it seemed so try-hard in terms of being distinct enough. Surely the Wing Zero Custom looks gundam but it looked like a terribly flamboyant one. Yeah it was distinct but it just looks so wrong in a Gundam perspective. At least the windmill-derived Nether Gundam never fails to express such a strong statement, the design sure shows us where it really belongs.

    The characters were all obviously stereotypical and boyband-ish yet all tried to have that character depth present in other characters of the franchise, but failed in the process.

    What is Gundam all about? The fact that it's a cliche-breaker. Mobile Suit Gundam broke the mecha cliche and became one of the first to lay the bricks of the monolith that we now know as the real robot sub-genre. It would set the blueprints of design that would later be referred to not only in the Gundam franchise but in other mecha (i.e. Metal Armor Dragonar) shows and media (robotics) as well. ZZ would break the seriousness and add a touch of warmth. Turn A would tweak the traditional design a bit yet still look right enough. The SD's parodied its own franchise...

    And of course one of my four favorite Gundam shows, Mobile Fighter G Gundam:

    CHARACTERS - Yeah, full of token characters and full of stereotypes. We have our russian big guy, french gentleman, chinese shaolin, american jock, Japanese kensai, canadian lumberjack, a swedish gymnast, egyptian mummy, so on and so forth.

    MOBILE SUITS - Great design, you can line up the Gundams and start a United Nations parade. The gundam designs really blended well not only with their corresponding nationalities but also the fighters therein. Nether Gundam, Rose Gundam, Mandala Gundam, Tequila Gundam, Lumber Gundam, and some others might look odd but hey, they did manage to get the designs right. Odd enough yet perfect for this show.

    Increase toy sales? Yeah sure, who cares?

    WEAPONRY - Rose-looking Funnels, a 'beam cloth', martial arts, and a lot more. Yeah, odd yet perfect.

    PLOT - Plot's so-so, not too much depth involved. It's as simple as one-two-three and a-b-c but hey, it's fun anyway.

    DISTINCTION - What makes this show so special is the fact that you don't really need to dissect (although i just did) it as if it was some kind of a Diego Velasquez painting in which you examine everything with great attention to detail and a keen eye. See it as it is, it's like Dragon Ball/Z, it doesn't pretend to be something else, it's simply what it is.

    If MSG broke-off from the boundaries of what then used to be an almost monotonous genre, along with the SD's G Gundam (in a good note) surely broke out from the boundaries and standards set by its forefather.

    What Gundam's all about? Cliche-breaking, G Gundam sure did.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Grey Crane View Post
    The characters were all obviously stereotypical and boyband-ish yet all tried to have that character depth present in other characters of the franchise, but failed in the process.
    Can you expand on this? How are they "boyband-ish" and how did they fail in showing character depth?

  17. #17
    Senior Member B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam's Avatar
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    [quote=J Gundam;2331911]My mistake. I used the wrong word. However, there are stereotypes THROUGHOUT anime and definitely throughout Gundam. There are stereotypes in MSG, G Gundam, 0080, 0083 etc. I find it incredible how exclusive fans of UC will calmly ignore the stereotypes in that timeline and then label the characters in GW stereotypes.[quote]
    Those were archetypes. Unless you specify, wrong term again.

    There were moments of philosophical sophistication. I don't remember any "obvious truths" being spouted. Relena felt war couldn't bring about true peace, Zechs and Heero disagreed whiles Dorothy simply romanticized war. If you can find a instance where a character said something that supposed to be deep but was completely obvious, share it.
    You are mistaking the potential of being philosophically sophisticated with actually being it. Done well with emotionally epic scenes 1 or 2 times is fine, adding the discussion to every other moment beam sabres are pressed together and every other moment waters it.

    Wufei: "I must determine wether war is worth it for the peace blablabla!"

    Heero: "The more you fight, the more it is war and not peace, didn't you realize that bla?" (so why did you start in the first place again?)

    Wufei: "So yous a' sayin' 'em soldier who fought in the war just get discarded liek that? I won't take that shiat bla!" (oh okay, job security issues, makes sence!)

    Heero: "Believe in the World we live in today!" (aka what Amuro said when stopping the Axis. And you didn't do it like that in the first place, so now you will?)

    Wufei: "I act in the name of those who are needed in war but are seen as threatening in times of peace!" (aka what Titans did)

    This conversation is canonically worth a facepalm, the authors made the Newtypes do it in an SRW and there's more where that came from.


    You just contradicted yourself! You say "it wasn't different enough" and in the same breath say "it differed to a major extent". GW can't win either way. It's too different one minute but has too many stereotypes and ideas that have already been used another minute. THAT'S WHAT GUNDAM IS ALL ABOUT! As much we all love the franchise, there are similar characters and ideas throughout multi-verse.
    I said it differed to a major extent by omitting good things, as in the part that differed consisted to a major extent of omitting good things. Not that it differed to a major extent in total. If my grammar was wrong, sorry.

    And what "good things" did GW omit? Zakus? LOL!
    Yes. :P


    I also notice you are significantly defensive about the series, it seems you take too much offense from me stating how it is while forgetting that tropes are not bad. Scythes are cool. Wings on giant mecha are cool. BFS and BFGs are cool. Bipedal giant Mecha are cool. None of those make any sense whatsoever, but they are good.

    When handling tropes I differ from Archetype, Trope Namer and Stereotype.


    Archetypes are the first to do something, wether it became famous or not, they get a free-from cliches card:

    -Heero may at any time spread his buster rifles out, make a wing flap and clash them together in a close up posing as much as he wants, its his thing and he will never be blamed for it as a cliche.


    Trope Namers are clearly not the first ones doing something that has become stereotypical, but they are the ones who made it positively famous that way, giving them a free win card:

    -Gato is not the first to go steal an enemy prototype giant mecha, but he defined the trope "Gundamjack", it became typical through him without being a fail (see below). Therefore, he gets a freebie.


    Stereotypes are the above, but taken a step further to the point of being overused and bland except to someone who is genre blind (for instance, watching a Gundam Anime for the first time)

    -Units in SEED posing for shooting during fights. Heero has done that, but Heero has the freebie card and every person after him will have decreasing claims on originality for it. SEED characters do not have the immunity. Combined with the fact that its trying to be more realistic than GW, this is also a fail.


    There are 3 major factors that are none of the above 3:


    Too Basic:

    -Turning the key when starting a car cannot be a cliche, its just too normal.


    Overdoing it:

    -If there were a series about grass height, and 30 episodes about growing grass and all done dead serious. I may be the 1st of its kind or a total innovation, but its probably still extremely boring.


    Failing:

    If something was attempted, only to revert into something bad:

    -Imagine Death Note, but running on idiot plot and with a Scooby Doo ending and still trying to be serious about it.


    It should be noted however, that Stereotypes aren't necessarily bad! For example, Ragna the bloodedge from blazblue is a spikey-haired anti-hero with a BFS. This is cool! But you cannot say he is a unique character with depth and all referring to his (surprise) sad past and motives.

    Likewise, Heero being another badass/robot on outside person isn't a bad thing, he is badass, fumbling around with your dislocated leg is badass. Saying he is badass is certainly not incorrect, but in overzealous attempts to praise up your favourite the series by putting him as genuine and deep character is not going to work.

    Sometimes, a stereotype can come in handy for the setting. Comedies love them for instance, and they prosper there.

    If played outside of these areas however, all of this comes together in the total of things. When being too cliche to the core, it becomes an overall bad. You can single out some good things, but the total of it remains a huge mash of washed up and watered down stuff to many.


    Can you expand on this? How are they "boyband-ish" and how did they fail in showing character depth?
    Gotta pologize on Crane for snatching the answer on this one but... the boyband thing wasn't coined that way by critiques, it was by GW fans themselves. Yes its that obvious and blatant.

    *A guy who is cold and relictant on the outside but is actually a nice guy on the inside and therefore secretive about his true emotions
    *A guy who is always cheerful, but has inner worries and a sad past
    *A guy who openly shows his sensitive side, but is still up for it when it counts
    *A cool and nihilistic guy who is searching for his true identity
    *A guy with own values and virtues, misunderstood by others/society for his brash ways
    *The above mentioned guys lack any notable chemistry towards girls to date, though said girls are suffisciently present

    If I were to make the image of a boyband, this would so. totally. work. It was made to work like this on full purpose.



    As stated above, THIS CAN BE A GOOD THING (to shippers). The homo-relations between any of the pilots will work out in their doujins. Either because Relena died... or not (not enough chemistry in the first place to make her needed to die for the ship all the time).

    We are not out to get at fanboys or anything. As mentioned, SEED for instance can be appealing to the genre blind - its not their fault for being genre blind, for the ones who saw SEED as first gundam anime. Noone can blame them for liking it. But if they tell you its old school just because 00 is out, anyone GW and earlier will know thats obviously false.

    Boygroup 5-man-bands are A-OKAY, saying they are dreamy/badass/always positive/*include trait here* is stating truth/opinion saying they are in depth and totally original is the wrong approach.

    Giant mecha with scythes and BFGs are a good thing. Saying they are awesome because of giant scythes and cannons is right, saying they are realistic and sophisticated is the wrong approach.
    Last edited by B Gundam; 09-24-2009 at 12:13 AM.
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  18. #18
    Senior Member J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    Those were archetypes. Unless you specify, wrong term again.
    I didn't use the wrong term. Kai, Bright, Ryu were all great characters and may have been archetypes for Gundam as a franchise. However, they are stereotypes. Kai, the smart-mouthed coward present in a lot of adventures. Bright, the classic no-nonsense leader. Ryu, the jolly fat guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    Done well with emotionally epic scenes 1 or 2 times is fine, adding the discussion to every other moment beam sabres are pressed together and every other moment waters it.
    I actually agree with you on this. The war vs. peace debate was constantly revisited during the series which made the argument a bit stale..

    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    Heero: "The more you fight, the more it is war and not peace, didn't you realize that bla?" (so why did you start in the first place again?)
    So Heero and the other three pilots should've just sat back and let Mariemaia take over the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    Wufei: "I act in the name of those who are needed in war but are seen as threatening in times of peace!" (aka what Titans did)
    Wufei never said that. I'm fine with paraphrasing but what you wrote and what was actually said are two different things.


    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    I also notice you are significantly defensive about the series, it seems you take too much offense from me stating how it is while forgetting that tropes are not bad. Scythes are cool. Wings on giant mecha are cool. BFS and BFGs are cool. Bipedal giant Mecha are cool. None of those make any sense whatsoever, but they are good.
    Maybe it's come across that way but I don't take it personally at all. If you don't like GW fine. I can't tell you what are and what aren't valid reasons not to like the series. However, it just doesn't make sense to me when you label a series "poor" simply because it doesn't stack up to it's forefathers in your eyes. To me, you judge a series based on the characters, plot, music, and others factors, not how said factors compare to another show.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    When being too cliche to the core, it becomes an overall bad. You can single out some good things, but the total of it remains a huge mash of washed up and watered down stuff to many.
    Couldn't you say same thing about ANY non-UC series? Again, why is it that every non-UC show is subjected to comparison with the original by fans?


    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    If I were to make the image of a boyband, this would so. totally. work. It was made to work like this on full purpose.
    Artists can do what they want in art books but I'm judging the characters based on situations in the show. An artist could just as easily render the original White Base crew as a pop music group if they wanted to. But did that happen in the show?

    Shippers can jump to conclusions based on artwork but there were no homo-relations between ANYONE during GW so their argument as to whether the pilots are gay is moot.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    Boygroup 5-man-bands are A-OKAY, saying they are dreamy/badass/always positive/*include trait here* is stating truth/opinion saying they are in depth and totally original is the wrong approach.
    How is it the wrong approach? No Gundam character after MSG is enitrely original but there some in-depth characters throughout the multi-verse. Entire essays with facts drawn from the series and mangas have proven GW's characters are in-depth.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    Giant mecha with scythes and BFGs are a good thing. Saying they are awesome because of giant scythes and cannons is right, saying they are realistic and sophisticated is the wrong approach.
    I don't think anyone on this board has called the MS in ANY series "realistic and sophisticated". If they have...

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    Senior Member B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam has a reputation beyond repute B Gundam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Gundam View Post
    I didn't use the wrong term. Kai, Bright, Ryu were all great characters and may have been archetypes for Gundam as a franchise. However, they are stereotypes. Kai, the smart-mouthed coward present in a lot of adventures. Bright, the classic no-nonsense leader. Ryu, the jolly fat guy.
    Yes, 0079 had quite a lot (even I though I don't see which part of Ryu you think is Jolly)! But subverts them just as much (love interest dies off halfway through the season for good, Dozul's alignment changes, the titular giant robot doesn't have a super finisher). Being the 1st "Real Robot" anime to exist, it also gets freebies, minus the Gundam Hammer, that was screwed up to an extent.

    I actually agree with you on this. The war vs. peace debate was constantly revisited during the series which made the argument a bit stale..
    And thats the main point, war and peace is a viable idea, but spamming it doesn't make the show sophisticated, it just annoys the audience.

    So Heero and the other three pilots should've just sat back and let Mariemaia take over the world?
    Somebody is going to rule. I can understand they didn't want Marimea (HOW OLD IS SHE?!) to rule the World, but everyone just accepts that they know when to kill tons of people and when it call it quits.

    Wufei never said that. I'm fine with paraphrasing but what you wrote and what was actually said are two different things.
    He did, don't listen to silly english dubs.

    Maybe it's come across that way but I don't take it personally at all. If you don't like GW fine. I can't tell you what are and what aren't valid reasons not to like the series. However, it just doesn't make sense to me when you label a series "poor" simply because it doesn't stack up to it's forefathers in your eyes. To me, you judge a series based on the characters, plot, music, and others factors, not how said factors compare to another show.
    I also only can state that it is "poor" in comparison, if there was nothing to compare, nothing would be bad or good. If you didn't mind it you could go fine with the comparison, because GW has its charm points that makes you like it and you wouldn't care about comparisons.

    Couldn't you say same thing about ANY non-UC series? Again, why is it that every non-UC show is subjected to comparison with the original by fans?
    Comparison is what makes quality. Either the original or the mainstream original is usually the basis of comparison. If you don't want to compare because it'll make something look bad then just stay out of it and let these silly people go do their silly stuff. You just like the series, what do you care?

    Artists can do what they want in art books but I'm judging the characters based on situations in the show. An artist could just as easily render the original White Base crew as a pop music group if they wanted to. But did that happen in the show?
    So above said personalities do not match the show to you? Making a boyband is a viable tactic for ratings. Noone minds a pic or two from the artist, the scary part is how effin much of them he spams out. Hirohiko Araki also likes to make boyband poses of JJBA characters and in the manga they frequently have awkward poses, but thats one of the last shows to get a freebie on it.

    Shippers can jump to conclusions based on artwork but there were no homo-relations between ANYONE during GW so their argument as to whether the pilots are gay is moot.
    I can understand your sense of need to defend them on such points but I never said the shippers are right, shippers are wrong 99.999999999% of the time. Well, unless referring to Spanish shippers doing Trowa/Quatre, they are unfortunately right (they used the Z.E.R.O. system).

    How is it the wrong approach? No Gundam character after MSG is enitrely original but there some in-depth characters throughout the multi-verse. Entire essays with facts drawn from the series and mangas have proven GW's characters are in-depth.
    Entire essays by genre blind people. You need to know a mecha/gundam-heavy community, There are some very publicly known Gundam Savvys who are explicitely GW fans, but especially they will tell you that:
    (translated) Some Gundam fans don't like the obvious boyband bunch they made there, but it was fun to me[...]
    It had plot? Wing's plot is *Psyduck*[...]That means headache inducing load of nonsense. Its fine tho, then you can say "they are blowing the Leos up BECAUSE!", just don't care too much.
    (translated) I like Heero because he's badass, but he sorely lacks depth even with the supporting manga like everyone else[...]There is a lot of given information on it, but while I do treasure the actual little bit of developement he gets, it just doesn't amount to much, so you have to do with his original profile
    If you complete the profile of any of the characters, it will result in a viable character. But the application of this in the show often end up as informed abilities along with irrelevant showoffs.

    I don't think anyone on this board has called the MS in ANY series "realistic and sophisticated". If they have...
    That was an example and not a targetting context. Makes me feel like I have bad communication skills or you're seeing me targetting things or people I'm not. But okay, noone said it, fully agreed.
    Life is like Gundam ZZ, anime ja nai!
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  20. #20
    Senior Member J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam has a reputation beyond repute J Gundam's Avatar
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    Well B Gundam, I guess we've found common ground on most issues. There are probably some things we'll agree to disagree about but that's fine.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy has a reputation beyond repute Heer0Yuy's Avatar
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    Lolz. Now I'm pretty depressed. While I heavily agree on about everything J Gundam said, I fully understand B Gundam's delight for the good ol' UC time line. Why? To put it in non-debatable way, MSG is the 1st Gundam Series. It just so happens that they branded the time line UC, and not AC or CE, ETC. MSG has that original "charm." The one you get from that new video game, or the smell of new shoes. It's irresistible. He loves the original series from MSG all the way to Victory. I highly agree. Char is like my favorite masked guy, then Zechs, Ra La Creuset and so on. His charisma rivals even the up-to-date stuff like new songs, movies, and even surpasses some. And yeah. I make Gundam models. It took me 6 Months to find a Level 5 Sazabi model kit only to find out that I couldn't afford it at the time. That sucks. Still. Here's the kicker: Say, B Gundam. I am going to write this BIG so that you would hopefully understand PLEASE JUST PRETEND: WHAT IF WING WAS THE 1ST GUNDAM SERIES AND MSG WAS ITS SEQUEL? I MEAN, EVERYTHING THEY INTRUDUCED IN UC WAS DERIVED FROM WING? AND THEN MSG SHOWS UP AND BRINGS AN ALL REALISTIC THEME ASIDE FROM WING? It sounds like a repeat of G Gundam blooming right after the UC series, or the best example: SEED popping out after Wing, X came out? We all know how that turned out.

    Especially with SEED. Kira Yamato is no doubt the biggest bellyacher of all, and I mean ALL of the Gundam Multiverse protagonist. He sheds enough tears to poison a major metropolis water supply. Failed to protect a ship full of civilians? Kira cries. Destroyed a noble enemy in battle? The floodgates open. Discriminated by enemies and friends alike for being a Coordinator? Kira's crying tonight. He often has his reason to cry. I mean, holding the lives of hundreds of people would surely put a strain on any 15-year-old teen. Aside from that, a good Gundam protagonist knows when to set aside his feelings to become an effective killing machine. Heero is the best example of this. I hate to say this, but Amuro isn't too different from Kira at first. Hadn't for Bright Noa imprisoning after slapping Amuro, he would've bellyached all the way to Char's Counterattack. Or when Camille was beaten down by that AEUG supporter. Hadn't for that, he wouldn't be disciplined enough to take his role as a Gundam pilot more seriously. While Wing lacks the drama, UC has plenty of it and SEED just overkills it. I didn't say it's intolerable, but I'm not here to babysit a bunch of SEED characters. But despite that, I like SEED. As much as I like MSG and all of UC. From X to G, Astray series to CCA, 8th MS Team. They all left something in me. With 8th MS Team, it was Norris Packard. Typical Gouf pilot with badass skills that could make Chuck Norris or Steven Segal look like amateurs. G left me with the Sailor Moon impression with you guessed it: Nobel Gundam. Nobel Loop anyone? XD. Each series has their own unique appeal. WING's just happens to be my favorite. The idea of showing emotions in battle will get the pilot killed. I couldn't agree with him more. The only reason Kira was still alive is because he is a coordinator.

    Did you know that there wasn't supposed to be a Gundam Seed Destiny? The creator was interviewed and he laid out how SEED was supposed to end:

    Kira dies with Ra Le Creuset while G.E.N.E.S.I.S. incinerates both of them.

    Fllay Alster has a bomb on her body that explodes when it reaches the Archangel and kills everyone onboard.

    Athrun Zala loses an arm and a leg and permanently disabled.

    That's just to name a few. Most people didn't like the idea. Especially Kira dying. That's why there's a sequel. Unfortunately for us, it was just a repeat of SEED with the Mechs from UC getting a timeline crossover to C.E. Gouf Ignited, Zaku Warriors, Dom Troopers. What would you get if you cross a Byg Zam with a Psycho Gundam? DESTROY Gundam. Fin Funnels was reborned as DRAGOONS, what else? Ramba Ral reborned as Heine Westenfluss. Heine even said: "This unit is different from a Zaku. It's NOT a Zaku!!!" Ring a bell? "This is no Zaku, boy, no Zaku." You get the point. Don't get me wrong: I like the mech remakes, especially Yzak's Slash Zaku Warrior. The sequel just didn't have that gut-busting ending of CCA or Gundam Wing. Noteworthy also are the designs and artwork of SEED. To put it in one word, BRILLIANT. That includes the mechs too. Also, who can forget: HAROS!!! The only thing the turned me off: the beam rifles. They have enough beam rifles to saturate the Sun. That's pretty tolerable I said to myself, since they were trying to make SEED more realistic than any other series. There are many things that makes a great Gundam series, yet none is without it's flaws, even your so-called CCA has its drawbacks. So please, deeply analyze your favorite series BEFORE criticizing another. I know Wing has a lot of flaws, save the artwork. they could've done better, but considering the release time, it was inevitable. In short terms, I like Wing EVEN if it has its flaws and wouldn't say it's the best just because it has one thing on it that the others don't have. I like it because I like it. Not because Heero can destroy countless Leos with one shot and Amuro can't, or heavyarms could pwnd Guntank any day, but because it's a great series, despite its flaws and it's worth all the glory it's getting if not, more.



    _____
    "I'll kill Zechs. That's my way of saying thanks." -Heero Yuy
    Last edited by Heer0Yuy; 09-28-2009 at 11:21 AM.

  22. #22
    Is the bee's knees ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik has a reputation beyond repute ZenErik's Avatar
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    I loved Gundam Wing when I was younger. I need to buy the DVDs.

    I have the first half of Gundam SEED on DVD, but I haven't watched it yet. I heard a lot about the defective DVDs so I'm a little worried about that. Hope all is good.
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  23. #23
    The Man With No Signature The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane has a reputation beyond repute The Grey Crane's Avatar
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    Ok let me do some snatching too...

    "PLEASE JUST PRETEND: WHAT IF WING WAS THE 1ST GUNDAM SERIES AND MSG WAS ITS SEQUEL? I MEAN, EVERYTHING THEY INTRUDUCED IN UC WAS DERIVED FROM WING? AND THEN MSG SHOWS UP AND BRINGS AN ALL REALISTIC THEME ASIDE FROM WING?"

    If that what-if happened during '79, the likeliest scenarios will be:

    a) The real robot genre might not be considered to start or boom until 1995 when MSG finally shows up. That being said, stuff such as SDF Macross, Zeta Gundam, ZZ Gundam, other Gundams, Votoms, Dragonar, (take note of how Dragonar's designed) yadda yadda yadda might not have popped out since there was no solid ground to lay their foundations and inspirations upon. While the mobile suits in Wing might likely prove to be innovative enough, i don't think the term 'real robot' would be coined. It will remain a seemingly super robot show with a more flamboyant design. Wing would certainly make an impact, no doubt about that, but i don't think the mecha genre and anime in general wouldn't be as good and diverse as it is. (maybe not until MSG pops out more than a decade later)

    b) The real robot genre flagship show and floodgate-opener would be none other than Super Dimensional Fortress Macross.

    c) Gundam Wing would not click at all, hence, a very little chance of a Mobile Suit Gundam release more than a decade later. Why wouldn't it click you say? Just look at how the characters of Wing looks like and compare it to how characters were designed during that period. They were more manly, less 'fragile' looking than Wing's. Those character designs (the main cast to be specific) would've been deemed too feminine during that day and age. Another factor would be the greatly downgraded animation quality, just imagine it looking like the more crude Mobile Suit Gundam. Really, it just might not work considering that Wing's stronger point is its visual quality.

    d) Mobile Suit Gundam will overshadow it's forefather. Just imagine it being done with the technological capacity of Wing: The visuals will be better, the story will prove to be in-depth nonetheless, characters will still prove to be well fleshed-out and human, yadda yadda yadda...

    e) Char will not be the most popular male character in anime. Zechs MIGHT be... but then again not, Captain Harlock anyone?

    There's actually more but i'm gonna stop now...

    The biggest misconception towards UC fans is the fact that we are all exclusively UC, that we shut our eyes and deny the good in other timelines, that we are purists. That's not always the case. Mobile Suit Gundam being the first of the gundamkind doesn't necessarily mean it's the best, that everything not faithful enough to the standards that it set is bad. Same goes for the UC timeline, we don't say that it's good just because it's the archetypal classic.

    Mazinger Z wasn't the first mecha ever but why does it get more credit than those that came before it, like Tetsujin 28 and Astrogangar?

    That being said, don't think Wing could pull off what it's forefather did if ever they were to switch places. And don't think MSG would be bashed just as much as Wing...
    Last edited by The Grey Crane; 09-29-2009 at 06:45 AM.

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