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Thread: Dubbed and subbed.

  1. #76
    Puzzle Piece; Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym has a reputation beyond repute Pseudonym's Avatar
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    If I were given a choice between a dubbed and subbed anime, I would choose the dubbed.
    Why read subtitles when you can hear it in English?

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThunderBringer View Post
    Yeah...I get that.



    I love how in One Piece they say (in the dub) that Nami's foster mom 'was sent to prison' and not 'shot down and killed...INSTANTLY', when I found that out, I nearly sent a hand-written letter to 4KIDS.
    You should have. Shielding kids from reality is atrocious.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudonym View Post
    If I were given a choice between a dubbed and subbed anime, I would choose the dubbed.
    Why read subtitles when you can hear it in English?
    Because of how the voices sound? And how the emotions are expressed? And how lots of dubs sound like little enthusiasm was put into them? And that the essence of the show is ruined with English dubbers?
    .::ANIME is DOPAMINE to me::.

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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by AznOtaku View Post
    Because of how the voices sound? And how the emotions are expressed? And how lots of dubs sound like little enthusiasm was put into them? And that the essence of the show is ruined with English dubbers?
    1. Don't assume that every Japanese voice actor has amazing skills. I'm sorry, but Kagome's voice actress from the sub is just plain awful. Not that I like InuYasha, but if I did, I'd be watching the dub.

    2. You do know that sometimes the Japanese voice actors over-dramatize simple situations?

    3. I'm pretty sure that even the dub for Naruto had enthusiasm in it.

    4. Because you're clearly watched every anime dub.
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  5. #80
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    Why read subtitles when you can hear it in English?
    I believe this has been discussed...this thread has like...80 posts >__>

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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThunderBringer View Post
    I believe this has been discussed...this thread has like...80 posts >__>
    Rhetorical question, my friend.

  7. #82
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    I'd much rather hear anime dubbed in english. Its always fun to witness.
    ^^

    Although some shows in dubs I've seen were just awful and I'd rather watch it in subs.

    90 percent of the time I'll go with dubs. <3

    "They didn't need to tell eachother. They never needed to tell eachother."



  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memento Mori View Post
    1. Don't assume that every Japanese voice actor has amazing skills. I'm sorry, but Kagome's voice actress from the sub is just plain awful. Not that I like InuYasha, but if I did, I'd be watching the dub.

    2. You do know that sometimes the Japanese voice actors over-dramatize simple situations?

    3. I'm pretty sure that even the dub for Naruto had enthusiasm in it.

    4. Because you're clearly watched every anime dub.
    The 1st point could be said with dubs.

    2. It's the overdramatizing that makes anime anime. It's anime!

    3. I don't watch shows that don't end. This point is irrelevant to me.

    4. Yes, because I need to watch every single anime dub to formulate my opinion on dubs. Just like you watched every anime subbed to formulate your opinion that Japanese voice actors over-dramatize situations.
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  9. #84
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    I'm down with both subbed and dubbed. It really depends what I watch first.

  10. #85
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    Why read subtitles when you can hear it in English?
    Rhetorical question, my friend.
    Sorry for trying to make a point that has been discussed. Your question was completely lackluster, and didn't say anything about anything. so =p

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  11. #86
    Junior Member revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican's Avatar
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    I can use logic to prove why watching an anime with the japanese audio track is the one and only correct way to watch it, but I don't think that people who like dubs are bad. The anime they watch and appreciate isn't what I watch and appreciate. here is the logic:

    1 Most people agree that anime is an art form

    2 Most people agree that art captures a moment in time, if you alter it, it ceases to be the artists' work.

    3 Everyone would agree that you can't get an "english version" of the Mona Lisa, or the Statue of David. They simply are what they are: art.

    4 Most people would agree that putting the Mona Lisa into a new frame wouldn't ruin the painting (subtitles)

    5 Most people would agree that cutting out the profile of the woman in the painting, throwing away the rest of the painting, and then pasting the woman onto a backdrop poster of the New York City skyline would destroy the work of art (dubbed audio)

    6 The audio track of any anime is probably more important than even the visual aspects. It is what allows us to meet the characters and learn the story. Removing it would remove more than half of the original work. Altering it makes it into an entirely different completed project.

    7 Therefore, if you like the dubbed version of, say, Cowboy Bebop, then you really don't like Cowboy Bebop, and you've never really experienced Cowboy Bebop. You've experienced and enjoy seeing "Anime company X presents: Cowboy Bebop"

    8 Most people would agree that putting the Statue of David onto a pedestal so that more people can see it doesn't change it from being the statue of david.

    9 Most people would agree that castrating the statue and covering up the damage with a leaf would ruin the artwork.

    10 Subtitles are a great frame to view a completed work of art. Dubbing makes someones art into something else entirely.

    There is nothing wrong with liking Dubs, but you have to realize that you're only seeing the mutilation of what was once a completed work of art.

  12. #87
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    Here's my interpretation of what you just said. Might not be accurate, but it seems logical to me.

    The way you're explaining things, a subbed version would be no good either. It's not the original. Subs takes up space on the screen and forces you to read, both detracting from the original art form. And subs are never going to be the same as the original Japanese either. The languages are just THAT different. So basically, some of us will never "experience" any anime, according to you, because we don't understand Japanese. Riiiiiight...
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by revoltingmexican View Post
    7 Therefore, if you like the dubbed version of, say, Cowboy Bebop, then you really don't like Cowboy Bebop, and you've never really experienced Cowboy Bebop. You've experienced and enjoy seeing "Anime company X presents: Cowboy Bebop"
    And when the artist himself (Watanabe) says said dubbed version is superior to the original form, what does that say about this argument? The directors of FLCL and El Hazard have also considered the dub version of their work to be superior.

    Art does not have one standard definition, you can't apply the same logic to a painting that usually only requires one artist to make as opposed to an animated series that requires countless people to make. The Japanese VAs chosen for the series would be selected by those in charge of casting, but what if it's not the choices the director/creator would have picked? And what of manga adaptations? The D. Gray-man mangaka flat out said her characters speak English, and while Oda selected the One Piece dub VAs for FUNimation I've never heard he did so for the Japanese cast. And what about executive meddling? The people behind Code Geass R2 were forced to change a lot of the early episodes' plot because of this, so in a way NO ONE has seen Code Geass R2. Finally, most anime directors have expressed approval of the dub, and none of them have ever said they consider it a mutilation of their work.

    Also, anime is "art" only as a secondary means. Anime is virtually always a business, designed to entertain and sell for profit. Not to mention "art" doesn't automatically imply it's something worthwhile. You could throw Play-Doh around the room and call it art, but don't expect me to be impressed.
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  14. #89
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    I can't believe it. I found another anime series in which the dubs own the subs.


    Gunslinger girl just sounds weird in Japanese. Everyone's white, but speaking Japanese? Hm, dubs win for me.

    One thing that pisses me off about both subbed and dubbed is that they pronounce Jose as Joe-say. What the hell? Learn Spanish! It's HO-SAY.
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doom85 View Post
    And when the artist himself (Watanabe) says said dubbed version is superior to the original form, what does that say about this argument? The directors of FLCL and El Hazard have also considered the dub version of their work to be superior.

    Art does not have one standard definition, you can't apply the same logic to a painting that usually only requires one artist to make as opposed to an animated series that requires countless people to make. The Japanese VAs chosen for the series would be selected by those in charge of casting, but what if it's not the choices the director/creator would have picked? And what of manga adaptations? The D. Gray-man mangaka flat out said her characters speak English, and while Oda selected the One Piece dub VAs for FUNimation I've never heard he did so for the Japanese cast. And what about executive meddling? The people behind Code Geass R2 were forced to change a lot of the early episodes' plot because of this, so in a way NO ONE has seen Code Geass R2. Finally, most anime directors have expressed approval of the dub, and none of them have ever said they consider it a mutilation of their work.

    Also, anime is "art" only as a secondary means. Anime is virtually always a business, designed to entertain and sell for profit. Not to mention "art" doesn't automatically imply it's something worthwhile. You could throw Play-Doh around the room and call it art, but don't expect me to be impressed.
    Nobody's going to flat out say that the dubbed version of their series sucked balls. Especially not the Japanese.
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by AznOtaku View Post
    Nobody's going to flat out say that the dubbed version of their series sucked balls. Especially not the Japanese.
    But couldn't that exact same argument be used towards the subs? I find it hard to believe that every director/creator for an anime has been satisfied with the cast that was selected.

    My point was that I found revoltingmexican's comparison to be off.
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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by revoltingmexican View Post
    I can use logic to prove why watching an anime with the japanese audio track is the one and only correct way to watch it, but I don't think that people who like dubs are bad. The anime they watch and appreciate isn't what I watch and appreciate. here is the logic:

    1 Most people agree that anime is an art form

    2 Most people agree that art captures a moment in time, if you alter it, it ceases to be the artists' work.

    3 Everyone would agree that you can't get an "english version" of the Mona Lisa, or the Statue of David. They simply are what they are: art.

    4 Most people would agree that putting the Mona Lisa into a new frame wouldn't ruin the painting (subtitles)

    5 Most people would agree that cutting out the profile of the woman in the painting, throwing away the rest of the painting, and then pasting the woman onto a backdrop poster of the New York City skyline would destroy the work of art (dubbed audio)

    6 The audio track of any anime is probably more important than even the visual aspects. It is what allows us to meet the characters and learn the story. Removing it would remove more than half of the original work. Altering it makes it into an entirely different completed project.

    7 Therefore, if you like the dubbed version of, say, Cowboy Bebop, then you really don't like Cowboy Bebop, and you've never really experienced Cowboy Bebop. You've experienced and enjoy seeing "Anime company X presents: Cowboy Bebop"

    8 Most people would agree that putting the Statue of David onto a pedestal so that more people can see it doesn't change it from being the statue of david.

    9 Most people would agree that castrating the statue and covering up the damage with a leaf would ruin the artwork.

    10 Subtitles are a great frame to view a completed work of art. Dubbing makes someones art into something else entirely.

    There is nothing wrong with liking Dubs, but you have to realize that you're only seeing the mutilation of what was once a completed work of art.
    Since you're talking 'bout art let me tell you one thing: when you compare art forms, make sure your comparisons are relevant. Let me split things for you...

    1. Anime is an art form. Yeah...

    2. Art captures a moment in time? Yes but some artworks just don't last long, like ice sculptures.

    If you alter it, it ceases to be the artist's work? Depends on the art form and the specific thing that you're going to alter. Most, if not all countries have laws that covers these issues.

    3. Uh... what were you trying to imply?

    4. Putting the Mona Lisa on another frame wouldn't ruin it? It depends on the frame and the framing process. The framing process, if not done carefully might likely ruin the painting. The frame, if not the 'right' one wouldn't ruin the painting per se but it would greatly ruin the visual structure of the painting. Try putting the Mona Lisa on a clamshell frame.

    Subtitles aren't frames, it's a means to make foreign people understand something they don't in what they're watching.

    5. Yet it creates a new one. Funny how you compared 'the woman' in the painting to dubbed audio. It's too far-off...

    6. Anime is anime, it's a combination of several art forms ranging from the visual to the literary to the musical and so on thus making anime a combined effort of a lot of artists big and small. Everything in it allows us to meet the characters one way or the other. Audio don't cover more than half the original work, if that's the case then we would be 'watching' an anime with only a black screen while hearing the characters talk.

    Altering? Alteration of artworks are prohibited in many countries, not unless you get the license to do it.

    7. You experienced seeing Cowboy Bebop nonetheless.

    8. So does Mazinger Z. Mazinger Z translated into Teng Viet is still Mazinger Z not unless it is heavily altered, or let's say made as an adaptation.

    9. You indirectly compared the Japanese audio of an anime to the male genitalia.

    10. Anime isn't just SOMEONE'S art, it involves many people at work.

    While anime, paintings, and sculptures belong to visual arts, comparing all three the wrong way will just make you look *insert appropriate word here*.

    You fail to realize that anime is not a when-it's-done-it's-done thing. It's not a Mona Lisa which is considered 'done' and shouldn't be altered whatsoever. As long as there's a company who is able to get the rights to an anime, they can do what they want with it as long as it never breaches the contract.

    Learn to understand the gray areas that involves originality.
    Last edited by The Grey Crane; 10-19-2009 at 10:04 AM.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by AznOtaku View Post
    4. Yes, because I need to watch every single anime dub to formulate my opinion on dubs. Just like you watched every anime subbed to formulate your opinion that Japanese voice actors over-dramatize situations.
    You've been flat-out saying that 99% of dubs are bad. When did I say that ALL Japanese voice actors over-dramatize situations? I didn't. The way you put dubs into context is totally different. You're generalizing them as a whole, making blanket statements about them. I never said all Japanese voice actors are bad. In fact, the Japanese actors for Eureka Seven were amazing, as were almost all the anime I've seen.

    And yet, you've only said one good thing about dubs. As a whole.
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  19. #94
    Junior Member revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican's Avatar
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    I wasn't trying to shoot down dubs. I'm surprised the forum seems so one-sided about it though. I thought maybe it would get people thinking, I guess. For argument's sake. Don't hate me, lol!

    And I was trying to relate the woman in the mona lisa as the visual aspect of the painting, like the actual animation in a series. You can cut out the woman and paste it anywhere you like, and people will say, hey, that's mona lisa. The background of the painting that gets thrown out is what I relate to the audio track. If you throw that away, you're left with a clear visual clue that it was once the mona lisa, but it's not the original painting anymore.

    Also, I related subtitles to changing the frame around the painting. If you change the frame all of the original work is still there. You add something instead of taking something away.

    And to the Grey Crane, who didn't understand point three. You can't get an english version of the mona lisa, why would you expect an english version of any other art form? It is what it is. I'm simply trying to say that if you like dubs you like someone else's vision of an original idea. そうだ!日本語少し勉強したらどう?難しすぎるんじゃねぇか、っあ?アニメを見るとき楽しいことは新しい単 語を習うことだ。してみろ。

    Finally to the people who said that Watanabe thought the english version was better. Lots of artists don't like the finished product. He didn't make the english dub, so it's not his work anymore. You've cut him out of the picture somewhat.

    Everyone is giving me negative rep points and I've been nothing but civil. I thought this was a discussion.
    Last edited by revoltingmexican; 10-18-2009 at 04:29 PM.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by revoltingmexican View Post
    And to the Grey Crane, who didn't understand point three. You can't get an english version of the mona lisa, why would you expect an english version of any other art form? It is what it is.
    I can't agree with that. A painting is visual. Anime is visual AND sound. Different mediums.

    Last edited by ZenErik; 10-18-2009 at 04:10 PM.
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    Junior Member revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican has a reputation beyond repute revoltingmexican's Avatar
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    Right, it's visual and sound combined. If you alter either of those components it's not the original project anymore. All I'm saying is that you like someone elses vision if you like dubs.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by revoltingmexican View Post
    Right, it's visual and sound combined. If you alter either of those components it's not the original project anymore. All I'm saying is that you like someone elses vision if you like dubs.
    Adding subs is also someone else's interpretation. Do you not understand that? And they take up space on the screen. Obstructing your view AND distracting you from the visual aspect.

    Last edited by ZenErik; 10-18-2009 at 04:46 PM.
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  23. #98
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    I disagree with you.  subs still contain all of the original material. It's the difference between adding a frame or changing half of the material. I used this in my points above. People would agree that if you put the statue on a stand, it's still the statue of david even with the stand. Subs are like a stand or a frame for anime. But I think that every anime fan should try to learn some japanese at some point, because it is good for your brain!
    Last edited by revoltingmexican; 10-18-2009 at 09:59 PM.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memento Mori View Post
    You've been flat-out saying that 99% of dubs are bad. When did I say that ALL Japanese voice actors over-dramatize situations? I didn't. The way you put dubs into context is totally different. You're generalizing them as a whole, making blanket statements about them. I never said all Japanese voice actors are bad. In fact, the Japanese actors for Eureka Seven were amazing, as were almost all the anime I've seen.

    And yet, you've only said one good thing about dubs. As a whole.
    I base my experience off anime I've watched. And with all my shows, I've only enjoyed Gunslinger Girl better in English.
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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenErik View Post
    Adding subs is also someone else's interpretation. Do you not understand that? And they take up space on the screen. Obstructing your view AND distracting you from the visual aspect.

    It doesn't take up THAT much space. Besides, the image it takes up is, most of the time, irrelevant to the story.

    Taking up the amount of space a sub does is not even remotely close to the difference between a dub and an original. Simply put, the alteration from a sub is a lot less than the alteration from a dub.
    .::ANIME is DOPAMINE to me::.

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