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Thread: Are we better than animals?

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    Default Are we better than animals?

    Meerkat Manor is a show that follows the true life and death events of a family of meerkats called The Whiskers. I started watching this about a month and a half ago, but with two episodes shown everyday five days a week, I've already been through three seasons. Anyway, throughout that time I have become very fond of these diligent animals, even growing a strong liking of some of them. The dominant female of the family, Flower, and her son, Shakespeare, had become my favorites.

    Spoiler Alert: I recommend anyone watching or planning to watch not read on

    Around the end of season one, Shakespeare died protecting his younger brothers and sisters from a rival, invading gang (meerkat family). This was devastating to me, and it really started to make me realize how much I care about animals, I mean, I was actually devastated. As if that wasn't bad enough, Flower, the strong leader of the group, also died around the end of season three protecting her pups from a Caped Cobra. Continued below
    Last edited by Imperfect Angel; 09-10-2009 at 08:44 PM.

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    (Due to length restriction I had to continue on a new post)

    That did it, I broke down crying when it happened. Is it crazy to care this much about animals? I don't think so, I believe we make the mistake of believing that we are better than animals, which is completely untrue. What do you guys think? Are we better than animals?
    Last edited by Imperfect Angel; 09-10-2009 at 05:11 PM.

  3. #3
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    i would agree with you that we are not better than animals, i would even go on to say that animals are better than us, and it is not crazy to care about animals that much
    Last edited by RJ169; 09-10-2009 at 08:15 PM.
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    Well, the problem with all that is that they are dramatizing meerkat social structure. They are projecting human traits and emotions onto these animals for the sake of making what would otherwise just be another boring animal show somewhat entertaining.

    I have a whole lot of ranting I could do for this point, but I'll just shorten it all up and say: No, animals (especially rodents) are not better than humans. They are nowhere near humans.


    edit - Sorry, just looked up meerkats on wiki, I guess they technically aren't "rodents"
    Last edited by bakakame; 09-10-2009 at 08:20 PM.



  5. #5
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    Uh, I gotta say that we are better than animals. Our ability to adjust and adapt to the changes around us is what really separates us from animals in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Imperfect Angel View Post
    (Due to length restriction I had to continue on a new post)
    Weird. There is no length restriction on AF that I've ever encountered, and I've posted some pretty massive walls of text in my days.

    Quote Originally Posted by bakakame View Post
    Well, the problem with all that is that they are dramatizing meerkat social structure. They are projecting human traits and emotions onto these animals for the sake of making what would otherwise just be another boring animal show somewhat entertaining.
    Basically this. Anything will appear human when you antropomorphize it, obviously.
    Last edited by Eris; 09-10-2009 at 08:29 PM.

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    I love Meerkat Manor! :D

    Anyways, I don't believe that humans are better than animals.
    In my opinion, if it lives and must survive, it's got worth.
    Animals can feel and function just as humans can.
    Just because they can't speak English doesn't mean that they can't speak at all: language was created for communicating with others. Obviously, they're communicating quite easily with each other, otherwise the species would've died off by now.
    And that "Animals are dumb because we humans have advanced the world and they haven't" is just lame.
    We've advanced because we can. But, they live on, primitively, and are still going along just fine. They make do, and live. We go on, and sooner or later, I predict these "advances" just might kill us all. *iPods on a murder rampage! D:*

    So, yeah.
    These are my views, but I don't force them on people, or anything.


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy2116 View Post
    Uh, I gotta say that we are better than animals. Our ability to adjust and adapt to the changes around us is what really separates us from animals in my opinion.
    ok, but animals can also adjust and adapt to the changes around them.
    also animals do not have war or weapons that can kill millions of people in one blast
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ169 View Post
    ok, but animals can also adjust and adapt to the changes around them.
    also animals do not have war or weapons that can kill millions of people in one blast

    Nature is full of living creatures that can cause massive harm. Swarms of Locus, Plagues, Mosquitoes. Animals also wage "war" all the time, just on a smaller scale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Freddie_ View Post
    Nature is full of living creatures that can cause massive harm. Swarms of Locus, Plagues, Mosquitoes. Animals also wage "war" all the time, just on a smaller scale.
    I could have sworn you wrote "Penguins" instead of "Plagues." Took me like a minute to snap out of the industrial strength HUH?!


    Back on topic, The question does not define a scale in which to measure "better". We are certainly a lot better at speaking than all animals are. I'm better drawing pictures than my parents' cats are. I'm vastly superior in mathematics to any pigeon I've ever encountered.
    Last edited by Eris; 09-10-2009 at 08:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bakakame View Post
    Well, the problem with all that is that they are dramatizing meerkat social structure. They are projecting human traits and emotions onto these animals for the sake of making what would otherwise just be another boring animal show somewhat entertaining.

    I have a whole lot of ranting I could do for this point, but I'll just shorten it all up and say: No, animals (especially rodents) are not better than humans. They are nowhere near humans.


    edit - Sorry, just looked up meerkats on wiki, I guess they technically aren't "rodents"
    I dont think they're projecting human traits onto them at all, animals have emotions too, all they did was give them names. Even if they didn't have emotions, I wouldn't think emotions makes us better, maybe worse actually.

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    1. We are animals.

    2. We are the most advanced of all animals, by a margin lightyears wide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gjallarhorn View Post
    2. We are the most advanced of all animals, by a margin lightyears wide.
    Not that wide. What sets us apart is that we can communicate what we have figured out to the next generation, so any given human has essentially a hundred* thousand years more experience than any given non-human (who more or less have started from scratch).

    *six to eight if you're a christian fundamentalist.
    Last edited by Eris; 09-10-2009 at 09:24 PM.

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    Well, yeah, but I certainly can't fly, run as fast as a car, or survive more than one minute under water.
    Intellectually speaking, we're superior, but we're all still fleshy sacks of brain, extremely susceptible to death. This is why we've adapted by creating medical advancements to prolong life.

    We've advanced because of those select few people in the world who have figured out, invented, and explored new and amazing things.
    Compare that to how many people there are and how many people ACTUALLY make a difference in advances, and some of us seem pretty useless.
    Almost as useless as a simple animal? :/

    But, as humans, we certainly did get the better end of the deal.
    Although physically limited, we can correct these deficits with intellect.
    Even so, it's not correct to say "We're better."
    Think of it like a school.
    There's a smart kid that hates running.
    There's a sporty kid as dumb as a post.
    Neither can say that they're simply better, because they're good at two completely different things and have equal possibilities of either failing or succeeding in what they do.
    Of course, the subjects vary, and you can have more than one positive trait, but nobody is great at everything.
    I'm not good at holding my breath, and I'm sure a dolphin wouldn't be able to type a whole wall of text, such as this one, either. :P


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    Lightbulb I'd Have to Say

    Well, depending on what we do for the world, I'd have to say that we're better than animals. Animals relentlessly kill each other; meaning that a few species would eventually die out. Those species are food for other species, they are food for other species, etc...Animals don't have any endangered species laws, like we do. For example, it's HIGHLY illegal to kill a Bald Eagle. That's just my input. I know about pollution and stuff; animals don't really pollute things like humans do. We survive off of animals, and they survive off of other animals. We're trying to protect endangered species so that they can become plenty once again, and other species will feed off of them. (HOPEFULLY hunters won't smsdlmfm kill the majority of them again..) Anyways, that's just what I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxie View Post
    But, as humans, we certainly did get the better end of the deal.
    Although physically limited, we can correct these deficits with intellect.
    We're less physically limited than you think. Humans have something literally no other larger animal has: Endurance. Humans can run for hours. Both hunters and gracers can run fast, but they generate a lot of heat, and eventually they have to stop. Due to ingenious heat-management, humans don't need to do that. That made a huge difference back when we were hunting on the african savannah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxie View Post
    Well, yeah, but I certainly can't fly, run as fast as a car, or survive more than one minute under water.
    Intellectually speaking, we're superior, but we're all still fleshy sacks of brain, extremely susceptible to death. This is why we've adapted by creating medical advancements to prolong life.

    We've advanced because of those select few people in the world who have figured out, invented, and explored new and amazing things.
    Compare that to how many people there are and how many people ACTUALLY make a difference in advances, and some of us seem pretty useless.
    Almost as useless as a simple animal? :/

    But, as humans, we certainly did get the better end of the deal.
    Although physically limited, we can correct these deficits with intellect.
    Even so, it's not correct to say "We're better."
    Think of it like a school.
    There's a smart kid that hates running.
    There's a sporty kid as dumb as a post.
    Neither can say that they're simply better, because they're good at two completely different things and have equal possibilities of either failing or succeeding in what they do.
    Of course, the subjects vary, and you can have more than one positive trait, but nobody is great at everything.
    I'm not good at holding my breath, and I'm sure a dolphin wouldn't be able to type a whole wall of text, such as this one, either. :P
    i agree with you.

    i think it depends on what animals and what people youre comparing. humans and animals are somewhat alike. we communicate,have family,need food and water for survival,have emotions and so forth.I wouldnt say we're better but i wouldnt say that we're worst either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KleinKiessling View Post
    Well, depending on what we do for the world, I'd have to say that we're better than animals. Animals relentlessly kill each other; meaning that a few species would eventually die out. Those species are food for other species, they are food for other species, etc...Animals don't have any endangered species laws, like we do. For example, it's HIGHLY illegal to kill a Bald Eagle. That's just my input. I know about pollution and stuff; animals don't really pollute things like humans do. We survive off of animals, and they survive off of other animals. We're trying to protect endangered species so that they can become plenty once again, and other species will feed off of them. (HOPEFULLY hunters won't smsdlmfm kill the majority of them again..) Anyways, that's just what I think.
    Well, you'd be surprised to know that many endagered animals are in this state because of what humans do. UK has 3 eagles left of one breed (i'm not sure which type) in the wild. The reason theres only 3 left is because the pesticides poisoning the food chain and killing off their eggs. If humans are going to do that to other species, its only just that we take the steps to help them grow again. Animals left on their own will NOT make each other extinct. They only hunt what they need and theres ups and downs in the populations but it wouldn't be extreme enough to lead to extinction. I've heard of humans introducing new species to other countries that might have led to the demise of a species but thats only because one of us brought them over there.

    You would say apes are animals... Well, some believe we share a common ancestor with apes so I suppose that makes us animals too... We might have higher order abilities but in my opinion, that doesn't make humans better than other animals. They just have a different set of skills, and many animals can do things we can't do - can you imagine humans behaving like a shaol of sardines if we were surrounded by sharks? I would think we would run around like headless chickens rather than co-operate.

    Infact, some humans are downright awful! When you think about how hard other species try to survive in this world thats slowly falling apart, and then some humans (maybe just a handful) go and do something so unnecessary such as club seals for their fur, deliberately torture wildlife and such. Well, we may be more intellectual. But by no means are we any better.


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  19. #19
    Junior Member Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    We're less physically limited than you think. Humans have something literally no other larger animal has: Endurance. Humans can run for hours. Both hunters and gracers can run fast, but they generate a lot of heat, and eventually they have to stop. Due to ingenious heat-management, humans don't need to do that. That made a huge difference back when we were hunting on the african savannah.
    That's true.
    But, when a leg is broken, what do you do?
    You put a cast on it, and stop walking/running for a while.
    To stop walking, you'd have to use some sort of vehicle, crutches, a wheelchair, etc.: things that have been invented.
    Back then, you could've simply been left for dead if you couldn't run, because what are the chances that you'd actually survive like that long enough for recovery?


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxie View Post
    Back then, you could've simply been left for dead if you couldn't run, because what are the chances that you'd actually survive like that long enough for recovery?
    That's a strong argument though for humans being superior to animals. The sick and the weak are essentially left to die in primitive species.



  21. #21
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    It depends what factors you use to compare humans and animals (although we're animals too...)

    If you were to throw me into the wilderness and tell me to fend for myself for a month. An animal would fare better than I would, making it better than me. But if you ask an animal to open a can of corn or apply several rounds of newton-raphson iteration... I'd totally own =D


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxie View Post
    That's true.
    But, when a leg is broken, what do you do?
    You put a cast on it, and stop walking/running for a while.
    To stop walking, you'd have to use some sort of vehicle, crutches, a wheelchair, etc.: things that have been invented.
    Back then, you could've simply been left for dead if you couldn't run, because what are the chances that you'd actually survive like that long enough for recovery?
    I don't see how this is a valid argument. A broken leg is a deathsentence for virtually any animal.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imperfect Angel View Post
    I dont think they're projecting human traits onto them at all, animals have emotions too, all they did was give them names. Even if they didn't have emotions, I wouldn't think emotions makes us better, maybe worse actually.
    Simply-speaking, emotions are reactive thought processes that accompany, precede, and follow physiological processes. Emotions are feelings. If you prick your finger and experience pain, you are experiencing an emotion. If you are hungry, you are experiencing an emotion. These things are pretty much universal, meaning all animals have them. Humans are capable of the most complex emotions because humans are capable of the most complex thought processes. Pretty much all higher social mammals possess the ability to express emotions: big cats who live in packs/prides, dolphins, elephants, humans, most primates, some canines, whales, etc. These emotions range from the most basic ones (fear, hunger, pain) to quite complex ones (enjoyment/pleasure, grief).

    Meerkats share a few behavior traits with virtually all social mammals, and basic emotions universal to nearly all animals. They are not humans, nor do they act like humans beyond those shared traits.

    Does this change your view on animals any?


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  24. #24
    Junior Member Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie has a reputation beyond repute Nyxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakakame View Post
    That's a strong argument though for humans being superior to animals. The sick and the weak are essentially left to die in primitive species.
    But not overall. .__.
    It wouldn't be fair to put a turtle in a spelling bee. Also, that's be pretty outrageous...
    But pitting a man against a cheetah on a full-out race, we're pretty inadequate there.
    Sooo, say those who invented/contributed to the creation of vehicles never did what they had. That's an important thing there.
    Without that, how will we beat the cheetah?
    And, with the millions of other people, why didn't they all think of that?
    Why can't we all invent hover cars out of nowhere?
    It's because we're not all as important as it seems.
    We're alive, but our lives aren't exactly a requirement.
    In the animal kingdom, your sole purpose is to mate and reproduce only the healthiest of your species, so as to live on.
    In our case, what we need are more advancements. We reproduce and reproduce, but a true contributor comes much less than those who do nothing but live for themselves in the long run.
    With that, it's almost as if our species is slowly failing.
    We're not all geniuses and sadly, it doesn't seem like the lot of us are getting much smarter.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Weird. There is no length restriction on AF that I've ever encountered, and I've posted some pretty massive walls of text in my days.
    Well I think she's talking about AF mobile; it does have a restriction on how long it can be.

    I don't know what you mean by better, but we are more advanced when it comes to coping with our environment.
    If Minecraft had a Japanese intro.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=H5qFZjuKet4

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