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Thread: Another question!

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    Default Another question!

    Hey again everyone! My Japanese has been lapsing lately (again) and I thought it was about time I did a bit of studying. Atm I'm just going through the grammar for JLPT 4 and I came across this example sentence:

    私は学生で友だちはいしゃです

    I'm completely stumped! What's this で all about? Whose friend is a doctor? :S

    If anyone could translate the sentence and then explain what that で is there for, that'd be great. Thanks!

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    I can't even read those numbered boxes.
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    Those numbered boxes are Kanji... your system just can't display them...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyaaa
    私は学生で友だちはいしゃです
    The particle で can be used for totalizing, like when you say "The three of us went shopping." 三人で買い物をした。 It could also indicate the scope, such as 日本で一番 (the first in Japan).

    So, that makes sense here. If we want to translate it a bit literally: "As for me, my friend among students is a doctor." Or even better, "My student friend is a doctor." (indicating that the friend belongs to the students group and he's a doctor.)

    Also, the friend can't be a friend of the students. The sentence would have been 私は学生友達はいしゃです。 And then that makes no sense because 私は is not related to the sentence. ("As for me, the friend of students is a doctor." :S..... I don't think so.)

    Anyway, I'm not a grammar expert or something. It'd be useful if other people also comment.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by akuNoHikari View Post
    "My student friend is a doctor."
    I don't think that's right. The sentence would have to be:

    友達は学生で医者(いしゃ)です。


    In the case of 私, the topic of the first part of the sentence is the speaker, not the speaker's friend. で is just used to connect the first statement to the second statement. The sentence could be rewritten as two sentences:

    私は学生です。
    友達は医者(いしゃ)です。

    So 私は学生で友だちはいしゃです really means:

    I am a student and my friend is a doctor.
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    Used the particles to link the arrangements. Subject first (as he/she is most of the time) and then the main idea.
    Sorry Lava bug but I didn't bother clicking the link. I'm a noob when it comes to kanjis. I only know like 40 characters. Thanks for the tip though.
    ....

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    Just to continue with Soulshift's analysis, it could have been clearer if the sentence has a comma like
    私は学生で、友だちはいしゃです
    As you would with other sentence connectors e.g. te-form, -shi and (maybe) ya/nado you would learn later on.

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    Ahah! I get it now. By any chance is the で like the te-form of です? Or is it just another connector?

    Thanks everyone!

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    could be....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyaaa View Post
    Ahah! I get it now. By any chance is the で like the te-form of です? Or is it just another connector?

    Thanks everyone!
    It is indeed the te-form of です. At least that's how it was taught to me and I like to believe that university major classes are correct for the bigger part of the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zynm View Post
    It is indeed the te-form of です. At least that's how it was taught to me and I like to believe that university major classes are correct for the bigger part of the time.
    It's probably fine to think of で as the て-form of です in this case, however, the 'real' て-form of です, would probably be であって, since です is roughly equivalent to である.
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    Uhuh! Gotcha! Thanks so much everyone.

    Actually (just to be a pain) I've got another question. It's a line from a song by Gackt:

    溺れることさえ忘れてしまうように

    I get the general idea of the sentence, but I was wondering exactly how you might translate the さえ? I checked it up on Tae Kim's site and apparently, used in a positive sentence, it means that "it's all you need to produce a desired effect". Since I don't think forgetting is a desired effect (at least not in this context), is it something like "just"? So he's emphasising that the only thing he's forgotten is what it's like to drown?

    Or am I just thinking in to this waaaaaaay too much again? 0:-)

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    I would translate that as:

    Even forgetting as I drown.

    Another sentence with the use of sae, from the OP of Evangelion:

    運命さえまだ知らないいたいけな瞳。
    Unmei sae mada shiranai itaikena hitomi.
    (You cannot even see your fate yet, with such innocent eyes.)

    So in these cases sae takes on the form of the word "even". Though it could also mean:

    if only; if just; as long as; the only thing needed.

    It all depends on the context of what he is speaking about. What is he saying beforehand?
    Last edited by isaacsol; 08-30-2009 at 08:42 PM.

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