AnimeGalleries [dot] NetAnimeWallpapers [dot] ComAnimeLyrics [dot] ComAnimePedia [dot] ComAnimeGlobe [dot] Com

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 163

Thread: Lelouch(Zero) - Villain or Hero of Justice?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Cold-Blooded IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess's Avatar
    Gil
    11,171.91
    Gender
    My Mood
    Asleep
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    05-17-2011 10:46 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Lithuania
    Age
    19
    Threads
    30
    Posts
    557
    Rep Power
    532

    Thumbs up Lelouch(Zero) - Villain or Hero of Justice?

    Well I think that's quite an interesting topic, because even though I like Lelouch very much, I can't tell if he is Villain or Hero of Justice.
    But still I would go with the Hero of Justice, because he sacrificed his own life in order for world to become a better place to live. He collected all world's hatred. I know you can tell that many people died, but there was a need for that. I just can't believe that he was a very bad person.

    So tell me what you think - Is Lelouch(Zero) a Villain or a Hero of Justice?

    P.S. I don't see the thread like this, but if you've seen this somewhere please tell me where
    Last edited by IcePriestess; 08-12-2009 at 01:29 PM.
    It is stupid to be afraid to die, but the most stupid thing is to be afraid to live.

  2. #2
    Perverted Kitty of Doom lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx has a reputation beyond repute lilminx's Avatar
    Gil
    25,434.66
    Gender
    My Mood
    Amused
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    05-09-2013 01:28 PM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    far far away...in canada XD
    Threads
    22
    Posts
    1,255
    Blog Entries
    11
    Rep Power
    966

    Default

    i swear i've already answered to a question like this >.<

    oh well, i think lelouch is neither a villain nor a hero. he killed a lot of people to gain peace. i dont think that killing is the way to go for a hero. he did achieve his goal to end war so he is somehow a hero.
    you can't call me weird, cause im unique ^_^
    btw if youre going to admire me, please tell me who you are, gracias


    siggy by teddy thankies ^^


    **UPDATE** NEW DRAWINGS
    * * * A R T ~ W O R K * * *
    My sweet sweet family is located in my blog
    if you want to be a part of our family, pm me


  3. #3
    Junior Member Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty has a brilliant future Oloty's Avatar
    Gil
    520.00
    Gender
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    08-13-2009 03:10 PM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Look Behind You!
    Threads
    2
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    He is neither hero or villain. Like lilminx said he killed many people but e did stop the war.

  4. #4
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
    Gil
    9,537.87
    Gender
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    12-26-2010 12:10 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    someplace
    Threads
    19
    Posts
    464
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Both, but more of a villain.
    I say that Lelouch committed three terrible crimes in addition to many deeds which many people can argue whether they were crimes or not:
    !) He went to the opening of the SAZ planning to make Euphemia shoot him, and then come back to life, convincing the Japanese that he was their messiah and sparking a bloody revolution in which thousands of people who wanted to live would be tricked into being killed for his plans.
    This was a plan for mass murder, as well as probably the individual murder of Euphemia.
    As part of this plan Lelouch told Euphemia he would make her shoot him. After Lelouch gave up his plan Euphie asked him if he could really make her shoot him, which led to his giving the command to order the massacre. Thus all the deaths in the Fuji Massacre and the Black Rebellion: Euphemia, Japanese, Britannians, were a direct result of his earlier evil plan for mass murder. Everyone who died in the Fuji massacre was murdered by Lelouch, and by CC if she was in on the plan.

    2) Killing Euphemia when it would have been so easy to simply pick her up in the hand of a giant robot as soon as her nightmare was destroyed. And Lelouch let Euphie pick up and keep a machine gun, and then left the safety of his armored nightmare to approuch her. Lelouch believed that as long as he did not act threatening Euphemia would love and trust him too much for the geass command to make her shoot him.

    There can never be any imaginable justification for killing someone who would have been so easy to capture alive as Euphemia would have been. Killing her was one of the most evil murders ever shown on television. Lelouch went from hero to Zero in my opinion when he pulled the trigger.

    And as a result of the murder of Euphemia, Nina tried to make and use a F.R.E.I.J.A. device, and as a result of that later joined the team which developed F.R.E.I.J.A. in time to kill millions during the wars of the second season.

    3 The geass directorate massacre. How can there be a justification for massacring thousands of people? If some of them were evila nds ome were dangerious with geass powers, they could have been captured and Lleouch could have given them all geass commands to do only good and/or obey all his orders and he would have gained more followers and avoided killing children.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-30-2009 at 10:06 PM.

  5. #5
    Junior Member Dreydor is just really nice Dreydor is just really nice Dreydor is just really nice Dreydor is just really nice Dreydor's Avatar
    Gil
    520.00
    Gender
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    09-13-2009 11:04 PM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Age
    20
    Threads
    0
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    everyone else has said hes more of a villian, but i think he is definately a hero of justice. My reason why is that alllthroughout the aniem, yes he did kill many, yes he did commit "wrong" deeds, but in times such as what he was living in, he always made the best possible decisions. HIs ultimaate goal was peace, which he achieved, and even though some of his tactics were underhanded, in the end, the deaths of the many that were sacrificed unfairly is repayed by the gratitude of the millions whom are now living in peace. And what makes him even more of a hero is that this was all self-less, in the sense that he fell britannia, gave the world peace, and even though he is their great savior and ultimately the bringer of peace, his name will go down in infammy as the evil king lelouch.

  6. #6
    Member reccareichiri has much to be proud of reccareichiri has much to be proud of reccareichiri has much to be proud of reccareichiri has much to be proud of reccareichiri has much to be proud of reccareichiri has much to be proud of reccareichiri has much to be proud of reccareichiri has much to be proud of reccareichiri has much to be proud of reccareichiri has much to be proud of reccareichiri's Avatar
    Gil
    760.00
    Gender
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    12-14-2009 04:15 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Yume no Sekai
    Age
    22
    Threads
    1
    Posts
    38
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreydor View Post
    everyone else has said hes more of a villian, but i think he is definately a hero of justice. My reason why is that alllthroughout the aniem, yes he did kill many, yes he did commit "wrong" deeds, but in times such as what he was living in, he always made the best possible decisions. HIs ultimaate goal was peace, which he achieved, and even though some of his tactics were underhanded, in the end, the deaths of the many that were sacrificed unfairly is repayed by the gratitude of the millions whom are now living in peace. And what makes him even more of a hero is that this was all self-less, in the sense that he fell britannia, gave the world peace, and even though he is their great savior and ultimately the bringer of peace, his name will go down in infammy as the evil king lelouch.
    I strongly agree...


    He's a hero...
    "A Ninja must always endure."-Recca
    "There are no coincidences in this world."

  7. #7
    Senior Member +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+'s Avatar
    Gil
    539.44
    Gender
    My Mood
    Bored
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    06-07-2011 08:02 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    unda' da' sea
    Threads
    52
    Posts
    523
    Rep Power
    330

    Default

    Hero.
    Yes, he killed people, but dont all War Heroes? Thats what makes them War Heroes.

    Hero. He committed one of the most selfless acts I can think of. He made his life hell so everyone would hate him, then killed himself to make every other person on Earth Happier. If that is not a hero I don't know what is.

    Hero.
    :'3


    Fatal Frame II




    Because Friendship is MAGIC!

  8. #8
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
    Gil
    9,537.87
    Gender
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    12-26-2010 12:10 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    someplace
    Threads
    19
    Posts
    464
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by +Namiko+ View Post
    Hero.
    Yes, he killed people, but dont all War Heroes? Thats what makes them War Heroes.

    Hero. He committed one of the most selfless acts I can think of. He made his life hell so everyone would hate him, then killed himself to make every other person on Earth Happier. If that is not a hero I don't know what is.

    Hero.
    :'3
    Technically it is not correct that all war heroes kill people. For example, many present day medals of honor are awarded posthumously for sacrificing one's own life to save the lives of one's comrades. The classic example is leaping on a hand grenade and smothering and adsorbing the explosion and the deadly fragments with your own body to save the lives of others.

    Some of the soldiers who did that type of thing may have killed people previously, but that is not what they were honored for. And some of them did not kill anyone in their military careers

    Thus it is perfectly possible to be a war hero without killing anyone.

    And killing people does not always make a hero out of a warrior. Did Jefferson Davis become a hero for shooting General Nelson during the Civil War? No.

    He wasn't the Confederate president, but Union General Jefferson C. Davis, the butt of a number of jokes. And why didn't shooting a Confederate general make Jefferson C. Davis a hero? Because General Nelson was a U.S. general and Davis's commanding officer when Davis shot him during a quarrel.

    Contrary to your assumption, killing people is not always necessary or sufficient to make someone a war hero.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-30-2009 at 10:07 PM.

  9. #9
    There's nothing new Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000's Avatar
    Gender
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    11-04-2011 11:27 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    AAAAAAAA!
    Age
    28
    Threads
    163
    Posts
    9,496
    Blog Entries
    106
    Rep Power
    5827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Technically it is not correct that all war heroes kill people. For example, many present day medals of honor are awarded posthumously for sacrificing one's own life to save the lives of one's comrades. The classic example is leaping on a hand grenade and smothering and adsorbing the explosion and the deadly fragments with your own body to save the lives of others.

    Some of the soldiers who did that type of thing may have killed people previously, but that is not what they were honored for. And some of them did not kill anyone in their military careers

    Thus it is perfectly possible to be a war hero without killing anyone.

    And killing people does not always make a hero out of a warrior. Did Jefferson Davis become a hero for shooting General Nelson during the Civil War? No.

    He wasn't the Confederate president, but Union General Jefferson C. Davis, the butt of a number of jokes. And why didn't shooting a Confederate general make Jefferson C. Davis a hero? Because General Nelson was a U.S. general and Davis's commanding officer when Davis shot him during a quarrel.

    Contrary to your assumption, killing people is not always necessary or sufficient to make someone a war hero.
    The status of "war hero" is conveyed upon people who selflessly either kill people for whatever nation-state they may be fighting for, or risking their own life to aid others in killing people for their nation state. No one has ever become a war hero making bread for soldiers for the duration- you have to be in the theater of operation as a soldier for the purpose of killing enemy soldiers or assisting in the killing of enemy soldiers. Killing people isn't sufficient, but the person you quoted never said that all soldiers that kill people are war heroes, only that it's a prerequisite. You can disagree if you want but killing strongly correlates with the status of war hero for obvious reasons.

    But thanks for ignoring the gist of his post, blatantly misreading the errata and going on a tirade over a moot point.
    Last edited by Manhattan_Project_2000; 08-26-2009 at 10:16 PM.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

    The List of Hate, My self-indulgent journal-thing.
    Last Post:
    Video Vomit 05/11/11

  10. #10
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
    Gil
    37,456.78
    Gender
    My Mood
    Wicked
    Gifts Eva Penpen Wolf Full Moon
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    05-29-2014 10:41 PM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, United States
    Age
    24
    Threads
    47
    Posts
    2,027
    Rep Power
    2242
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: DisturbedWiccan PSN ID: Wolfdragon63 Steam ID: Wolfgirl90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post

    And killing people does not always make a hero out of a warrior. Did Jefferson Davis become a hero for shooting General Nelson during the Civil War? No.

    He wasn't the Confederate president, but Union General Jefferson C. Davis, the butt of a number of jokes. And why didn't shooting a Confederate general make Jefferson C. Davis a hero? Because General Nelson was a U.S. general and Davis's commanding officer when Davis shot him during a quarrel.

    Contrary to your assumption, killing people is not always necessary or sufficient to make someone a war hero.
    Nice logic, proEuphie. Of all the examples you could have used, you used Jefferson C. Davis as proof of your point?

    Honestly, its pretty obvious that ANY soldier that killed his commanding officer for something as petty as being slapped in the face is not going to be named a war hero for their actions (for the killing, anyway). They would most likely receive a court-martial and sent to prison and possibly executed...which, as you MUST have known, did not happen to Davis.

    He avoided conviction (they apparently needed some experienced field commanders) and went on serve in several more battles and wars, including the Modoc War where his presence was actually celebrated by the soldiers who were there and his campaign lead to the eventual surrender of some enemy leaders (like Bogus Charley and Captain Jack), which lead Davis to be later celebrated as...a war hero.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  11. #11
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
    Gil
    9,537.87
    Gender
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    12-26-2010 12:10 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    someplace
    Threads
    19
    Posts
    464
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Nice logic, proEuphie. Of all the examples you could have used, you used Jefferson C. Davis as proof of your point?

    Honestly, its pretty obvious that ANY soldier that killed his commanding officer for something as petty as being slapped in the face is not going to be named a war hero for their actions (for the killing, anyway). They would most likely receive a court-martial and sent to prison and possibly executed...which, as you MUST have known, did not happen to Davis.

    He avoided conviction (they apparently needed some experienced field commanders) and went on serve in several more battles and wars, including the Modoc War where his presence was actually celebrated by the soldiers who were there and his campaign lead to the eventual surrender of some enemy leaders (like Bogus Charley and Captain Jack), which lead Davis to be later celebrated as...a war hero.
    I used Jefferson C Davis as a somewhat humorous example of the fact that killing someone doesn't always make a war hero and sometimes unmakes a war hero or respected commander. Davis wasted a lot of his hard earned respect and military reputation and chances for promotion in not being punished for the murder of Nelson.

    After the war he became the colonel of the 23rd US Infantry but was stationed on very detached duty or exile as commander of the military Department of Alaska, where the Indian fighting was mostly navel vessels shelling coastal Indian villiages. While the 23rd was commanded by the Lieutenant Colonel, George Crook, who gained fame in the Paiute and Apache wars.

    Then in 1870 Alaska was reduced to a military district within the Department of the Columbia about a month before the current commander of the Department of the Columbia was relieved - who happened to be Lt. Col. Crook. And in 1873 Crook was promoted straight to brigadier general. Davis must have often wondered how much of this was planned by his superiors to try to make up for the punishment he had escaped.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-30-2009 at 02:21 PM.

  12. #12
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
    Gil
    37,456.78
    Gender
    My Mood
    Wicked
    Gifts Eva Penpen Wolf Full Moon
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    05-29-2014 10:41 PM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, United States
    Age
    24
    Threads
    47
    Posts
    2,027
    Rep Power
    2242
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: DisturbedWiccan PSN ID: Wolfdragon63 Steam ID: Wolfgirl90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    I used Jefferson C Davis as a somewhat humorous example of the fact that killing someone doesn't always make a war hero and sometimes unmakes a war hero or respected commander. Davis wasted a lot of his hard earned respect and military reputation and chances for promotion in not being punished for the murder of Nelson.
    I understand what you were trying to say, but you are not organizing your thoughts very well. We all know that killing someone does not automatically make one a war hero and that one can be a war hero for sacrificing their lives for their comrades (you would think that I, of all people, would already know this). However, bare in mind that, while those soldiers are not being recognized for killing people, that does not mean that they certainly did not kill anyone (doing so, like you have done, would be a logical fallacy). Sure, a soldier can receive high honors for sacrificing their lives to protect their comrades but that does not mean that they did not, at any point in time, kill someone (because they easily might have).

    Davis certainly did not receive any positive recognition for killing his commanding officer (I seriously doubt that ANY soldier would). However, your logic is flawed because Davis was never convicted for this serious crime and went on to serve in many wars and battles AFTER killing Nelson and received the rank of Brevet Major General (while not a full Major General, the rank of Major General was the highest rank that a man could receive at the time, quite a high rank for someone who killed their commanding officer) and went on to become a war hero, despite the fact he killed Nelson over a slap in the face and a few insults.

    You are effectively making a moot point since Davis, regardless of his previous actions, still became quite the war hero.

    When it comes to Lelouch, again, no is (or was) saying that his killing of people made him a war hero (like MP2000 said, you completely missed the point of the posts and went off on a rather moot point). They are saying that, regardless of the fact that he killed people, because he sacrificed himself at the end of the series to help people and bring peace, he is a hero.

    For me, I would put Lelouch under the classification of anti-hero. The actions of the characters in Code Geass are not so black-and-white as to classify most of them as being "heroes" or "villains".
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 08-30-2009 at 03:45 PM.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  13. #13
    Senior Member +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+'s Avatar
    Gil
    539.44
    Gender
    My Mood
    Bored
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    06-07-2011 08:02 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    unda' da' sea
    Threads
    52
    Posts
    523
    Rep Power
    330

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Technically it is not correct that all war heroes kill people. For example, many present day medals of honor are awarded posthumously for sacrificing one's own life to save the lives of one's comrades. The classic example is leaping on a hand grenade and smothering and adsorbing the explosion and the deadly fragments with your own body to save the lives of others.

    Some of the soldiers who did that type of thing may have killed people previously, but that is not what they were honored for. And some of them did not kill anyone in their military careers

    Thus it is perfectly possible to be a war hero without killing anyone.

    And killing people does not always make a hero out of a warrior. Did Jefferson Davis become a hero for shooting General Nelson during the Civil War? No.

    He wasn't the Confederate president, but Union General Jefferson C. Davis, the butt of a number of jokes. And why didn't shooting a Confederate general make Jefferson C. Davis a hero? Because General Nelson was a U.S. general and Davis's commanding officer when Davis shot him during a quarrel.

    Contrary to your assumption, killing people is not always necessary or sufficient to make someone a war hero.
    AND IT STARTS

    The mutilation of another thread.

    Please. I beg you not to MUTILATE this poor thread like you did the others you showed up on.

    You're vicious killing of the Code Geass section is worse than that bullet entering Euphie's heart.

    You deserve your own motivational poster.

    You are frighting... really.

    Ok....

    my POINT where you will UNDOUBTEDLY pick ONE WORD out and attack OVER AND OVER while completely ignoring everything else I have said.

    Key words
    "killing people is not always necessary"

    NOT AWLAYS

    meaning

    SOMETIMES IT IS


    Though I suppose you are some sort of strategic genius sitting at home and finding nothing better to do then say "He's wrong" but I dont know anything. Im a Lelouch fan! I'm just a moron who blindly follows a sadist! Right?


    Killing people makes good TV, why else would some of the most popular shows ANYWHERE be crime shows? CSI, NCIS, The Mentalist, Criminal Minds.

    Death is INTERESTING when its not REAL and cg isnt REAL its


    E N T E R T A I N M E NT.
    D R A M A.
    F A N S E R V I C E.
    P I Z Z A H U T C O M M E R C I A L W I T H D E A D P E O P L E.


    we are SUPPOSED to question Lelouch BUT in the END we are most likely supposed to confirm his LAST ACT OF KINDNESS.

    Darn him. Darn that fool. How dare he die for others. Bad Lelouch! Bad!


    Fatal Frame II




    Because Friendship is MAGIC!

  14. #14
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
    Gil
    9,537.87
    Gender
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    12-26-2010 12:10 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    someplace
    Threads
    19
    Posts
    464
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by +Namiko+ View Post
    AND IT STARTS

    The mutilation of another thread.

    Please. I beg you not to MUTILATE this poor thread like you did the others you showed up on.

    You're vicious killing of the Code Geass section is worse than that bullet entering Euphie's heart.

    You deserve your own motivational poster.

    You are frighting... really.

    Ok....

    my POINT where you will UNDOUBTEDLY pick ONE WORD out and attack OVER AND OVER while completely ignoring everything else I have said.

    Key words
    "killing people is not always necessary"

    NOT AWLAYS

    meaning

    SOMETIMES IT IS


    Though I suppose you are some sort of strategic genius sitting at home and finding nothing better to do then say "He's wrong" but I dont know anything. Im a Lelouch fan! I'm just a moron who blindly follows a sadist! Right?


    Killing people makes good TV, why else would some of the most popular shows ANYWHERE be crime shows? CSI, NCIS, The Mentalist, Criminal Minds.

    Death is INTERESTING when its not REAL and cg isnt REAL its


    E N T E R T A I N M E NT.
    D R A M A.
    F A N S E R V I C E.
    P I Z Z A H U T C O M M E R C I A L W I T H D E A D P E O P L E.


    we are SUPPOSED to question Lelouch BUT in the END we are most likely supposed to confirm his LAST ACT OF KINDNESS.

    Darn him. Darn that fool. How dare he die for others. Bad Lelouch! Bad!
    So you claim that I misquoted you.
    Quote Originally Posted by +Namiko+ View Post
    Hero.
    Yes, he killed people, but dont all War Heroes? Thats what makes them War Heroes.
    You clearly wrote that killing people was necessary, and perhaps sufficient, to make a war hero.

    So you claim that mutilating a website is even worse than having someone helpless at the feet of your two giant robots and killing them instead of capturing them. You claim that mutilating a website is worse than walking up to someone, and past them, and away from them, confident that they love you and trust you too much to shoot you in the back. And then rewarding them for that love and trust and not shooting you by treacherously shooting them.

    So you claim that mutilating a website is worse than a leader saying that there is no point in capturing someone alive when actually there is never any point in killing someone who can be captured alive as easily, and as fast, and as safely as Euphemia could have been.

    So you claim that mutilating a website is worse than killing someone who is helpless to fight you and also loves and trusts you so much they would never suspect you were hostile to them? Do you know how many millions of men have wished that they hadn't had to kill and that it would have been as safe and easy to capture their enemy as it would have been for Lelouch to capture Euphemia?

    Do you know how many of your ancestors were captured despite it being much harder to capture them alive than it would have been for Lelouch to capture Euphie? You would never have been born if the warriors who captured countless of your ancestors had been like Lelouch and killed everyone that was not even safer and easier to capture than Euphemia was.

    I was sort of a Lelouch fan until I saw him shoot Euphemia unnecessarily.

    And yes I do know better than Lelouch, who is just a fictional character created by tv writers and producers, not by the greatest tacticians and strategists in the world.

    You think I'm frightening? All I'm trying to do is find someone who shares my outrage and disgust at being expected by cynical tv producers to keep on liking Lelouch despite seeing him murder Euphemia needlessly. I find all the thousands and possibly millions of Code Geass fans who can keep liking Lelouch despite seeing him murder Euphie just as frightening as you find me.

    We may be expected (in the sense of prediction) to cheer Lelouch's last act of sacrifice by the creators of Code Geass, but we are probably expected (in the sense of demanding) to hate and despise Lelouch for his previous crimes by the creator of the universe.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 09-03-2009 at 10:53 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
    Gil
    9,537.87
    Gender
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    12-26-2010 12:10 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    someplace
    Threads
    19
    Posts
    464
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by +Namiko+ View Post
    Hero.
    Yes, he killed people, but dont all War Heroes? Thats what makes them War Heroes.

    Hero. He committed one of the most selfless acts I can think of. He made his life hell so everyone would hate him, then killed himself to make every other person on Earth Happier. If that is not a hero I don't know what is.

    Hero.
    :'3
    Yes, Lelouch sacrificed himself at the end. But do you think that sacrifice 50%, or 100 %, or 200% makes up of any of all of his evil deeds such as murdering Euphemia or ordering the geass directorate Massacre?

    It might if those evil deeds were directly necessary for the succeess of the Zero Requiem. But since Lelouch could have have achieved the Zero Requiem without murdering Euphie or ordering the geass directorate Massacre those evil deeds were totally unrelated to achieving his noble goal and thus were totally unnecessary and evil deeds which the Zero Requiem cannot make up for.

    Someone who thinks that his goal is noble and therefore he doesn't have to worry if he commits a few more murders and massacres than are absolutely necessary to achieve his goal is too much of a villain for me.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 09-03-2009 at 10:16 PM.

  16. #16
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
    Gil
    37,456.78
    Gender
    My Mood
    Wicked
    Gifts Eva Penpen Wolf Full Moon
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    05-29-2014 10:41 PM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, United States
    Age
    24
    Threads
    47
    Posts
    2,027
    Rep Power
    2242
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: DisturbedWiccan PSN ID: Wolfdragon63 Steam ID: Wolfgirl90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    I define an evil person, as I have said in other posts, as one who has committed at least one evil act in his life, and has not repented and atoned sufficiently for it - if atonement for that act is even theoretically possible, which may be disputed and argued about. I think that if a person is basically good they will not do even one evil thing in their life.

    But being in the same organization, or loose group of organizations working for one common cause, as people who commit massacres and/or terrorism and not quitting in disgust or protesting or doing something to make massacres and/or terrorism a less common practice by those on your side, makes you an accessory or accomplice in my view.
    Wow...you are beginning to look like a troll.

    Your definition of an "evil person" (again, evil is a very relative concept) causes an extreme case of guilt by association. A person who does an evil act (again evil is relative) is automatically an evil person and anybody who associates with that person is evil (if they didn't try to stop said person). Basically, if a soldier killed someone (with you, killing under any circumstance is evil; believe me, I can quote you on this), I am just as guilty as him since I am also in the military and didn't stop him. If a police officer gets an order to shoot and does (and doesn't regret it), he is evil, the commander is evil (for giving the order), his coworkers that were with him are evil (for not stopping him) and all other police officers and affiliating organizations are evil (for simply being associated with the officer in question).

    With that definition, almost all of the characters in Code Geass are evil, including Euphemia, because she is a Britannian (guilty by association). She may have criticized the actions of the Britannians but she never actively did anything to stop them from fighting and attacking (she even participated in the Battle of Narita of her own free will; she did not even try to stop the attack) nor did she up and leave the Britannian family in disgust (which she should have done the minute that she was able to understand what was going on); she did ultimately leave but only after the creation of the SAZ and as a part of the creation of the SAZ, not because she was disgusted. And, to make up for the invasion of Japan and the deaths of many Japanese, Euphemia decides to give them a portion of their land back? Yeah...that doesn't cut it, with your definition that the deed done must equally make up for the crime committed (again, your definition makes Euphemia guilty by association as a Britannian who did not actively stop any of the actions of the other Britannians).

    Of course, that is just my opinion and I would rather not talk about that any further. You could PM me, but both of us know that it is not going to matter (I sincerely suggest that you give up on this annoying crusade).

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    It might if those evil deeds were directly necessary for the succeess of the Zero Requiem. But since Lelouch could have have achieved the Zero Requiem without murdering Euphie or ordering the geass directorate Massacre those evil deeds were totally unrelated to achieving his noble goal and thus were totally unnecessary and evil deeds which the Zero Requiem cannot make up for.
    Again, that ENTIRE argument is a moot point since Lelouch did not plan the Zero Requiem until AFTER Euphemia's death, hence the reason why part of the Requiem was to erase Euphemia's tarnished name.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    You think I'm frightening? All I'm trying to do is find someone who shares my outrage and disgust at being expected by cynical tv producers to keep on liking Lelouch despite seeing him murder Euphemia needlessly. I find all the thousands and possibly millions of Code Geass fans who can keep liking Lelouch despite seeing him murder Euphie just as frightening as you find me.
    What are you talking about?! Its a freaking CARTOON! The producers of Code Geass are not expecting you to do ANYTHING!! If you like Lelouch, fine. If you hate Lelouch, fine. They really do not care what your opinion of him is. Seriously, they really do not care. In fact, they purposely made the series complex so that there would be multiple opinions about Lelouch and no person would be right or wrong (note the word "opinion").

    Your opinion about Lelouch is no more right or wrong than the opinions of everyone else here and I think everyone else here would agree with me on that. HOWEVER, you want to say that because he is evil, if we like him, there MUST be something wrong with us, which is why you feel comfortable by riding on a "moral" high horse and calling our morals into question and saying that we must have "latent violent tendencies" (yes, you did say this) for liking a particular CARTOON CHARACTER!!

    I honestly do not care about your opinions about Lelouch and Euphemia. I am not saying that your opinions are wrong; I am saying that I do not care and I am not the only person who shares this sentiment. I certainly do not need to hear them in every other blasted forum that you lay your eyes on. Did it EVER occur to you that if you wanted to find like minded people who felt the same way about Euphemia that you did, that you should start a THREAD about it (amazingly, you have yet to do a "Do you like Euphemia" or a "Were you upset by Euphemia's death" thread)?!

    We are discussing a CARTOON! Not real life, not a reality show, not a live action movie, but a CARTOON!!

    If the death of a cartoon character shatters your reality SO MUCH that you can't handle it, that you must inform everyone about how "sad" it was, that you feel the need to call the morals of other people into question for the simple fact that they have a differing opinion than yours, then I suggest that you get off mommy and daddy's computer, since you are obviously either not old enough or mature enough to handle a discussion like this, and stop bringing up her death as if it caused the Earth to stop and the angels to cry out in agony. In fact, order a couple volumes of Tales of an Alternate Shogunate, where Euphemia is alive and well, so that you can enjoy Euphemia ON YOUR OWN!!
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 09-04-2009 at 05:28 PM.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  17. #17
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
    Gil
    9,537.87
    Gender
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    12-26-2010 12:10 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    someplace
    Threads
    19
    Posts
    464
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Wow...you are beginning to look like a troll.

    Your definition of an "evil person" (again, evil is a very relative concept) causes an extreme case of guilt by association. A person who does an evil act (again evil is relative) is automatically an evil person and anybody who associates with that person is evil (if they didn't try to stop said person). Basically, if a soldier killed someone (with you, killing under any circumstance is evil; believe me, I can quote you on this), I am just as guilty as him since I am also in the military and didn't stop him. If a police officer gets an order to shoot and does (and doesn't regret it), he is evil, the commander is evil (for giving the order), his coworkers that were with him are evil (for not stopping him) and all other police officers and affiliating organizations are evil (for simply being associated with the officer in question).
    You are simplifying and over simplifying what I wrote. If you want to find the quote where I supposedly wrote that killing under any circumstances is always evil please go look for it.

    But I never wrote that it would be impossible for it ever to be right to kill even such a wonderfully good person as Euphemia. Here is a quote from my post # 124 in Code Geass: Black Knight/White Knight:

    Beginning of quote.

    And no, I don't believe that it could never be right to kill an innocent person like Euphemia, no matter what the circumstances. This link: http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/1...498747__19.htm takes you to an online version of the short science fiction story "The Cold Equations", by Tom Godwin, in which a situation is created in which it is necessary and thus more or less "right" to kill an innocent person. And this link: http://home.tiac.net/~cri_d/cri/1999/coldeq.html will take you to a discussion of that story and the controversies it caused and a critique of the fictional universe of that story.

    Science fiction author Robert Heinlein once wrote wrote that a competent person would be capable of taking care of a baby or killing it if necessary (probably in the Notebook of Lazarus Long). For a long time I couldn't imagine any circumstances when it would be necessary to kill a baby but just a few months ago I thought of a (possible) example.

    Suppose you argue with a stranger, claiming that it could never be right under any circumstances to kill an innocent person like Euphemia. The stranger vows to make you change your mind. Unknown to you, the stranger is actually supervillain Ima Devil. So you regain consciousness tied up so you can use only one finger to press one button on a control device placed in reach. Ima Devil tells you that a baby had been placed on the steps of the orphanage at 8:10 pm and the next routine check will be at 9:00 PM The baby has been infected with a disease that will become airborne soon after 9:00 PM and spread to the other babies in the orphanage. They will all be dead within days. But now the disease is still in the state where it needs the warmth of a human body to survive. If you press the button it will give the baby a lethal injection and the baby will quickly die and cool off enough to kill the disease with minutes to spare before the 9:00 PM check finds the baby.

    If you believe that Ima Devil has told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth (which is a big if) you might accept that you have no choice but to press the button that Ima Devil says will kill the baby and save the other babies in the orphanage.

    (Devil is a real surname, a variation of De Ville, etc. http://www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Devil. Ima is a real personal name, used by Texas socialite and philanthropist Ima Hogg, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ima_Hogg, and according to books on bad baby names also by Ima Pigg, Ima Nutt, Ima Pain, Ima Hooker, etc.)

    In the case of the "The Cold Equations" an innocent person had to die by suicide and/or murder because 1) that person would have died within minutes anyway, and 2) giving that innocent person the extra few minutes of life would result in death for a number of other persons.

    In my example, if Ima Devil is telling the truth the baby on the doorstep has to die now because: 1) It will be dead within days anyway, and 2) giving it those extra few days of life will result in death for the other babies in the orphanage.

    Can anybody say that Euphemia had to die because: 1) she would have died within minutes (or days or some other specified time) anyway and 2) because her survival would inevitably, by the operation of the laws of physics and other sciences, result in the deaths of other people?

    No. There is no logical way to assert that either 1) or 2) is correct, let alone both.

    End of quotation from my post # 124.

    clearly I accepted when I wrote it that it sometimes is right to kill, and even that it could possibly be right to kill someone who you know is as innocent as Euphemia. I simply denied that there was any justification for killing Euphemia in Code Geass.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Your definition of an "evil person" (again, evil is a very relative concept) causes an extreme case of guilt by association. If a police officer gets an order to shoot and does (and doesn't regret it), he is evil, the commander is evil (for giving the order), his coworkers that were with him are evil (for not stopping him) and all other police officers and affiliating organizations are evil (for simply being associated with the officer in question).
    If a police officer gets an order to shoot the result will be either:
    1) He rightly obeys a justified order to shoot.
    2) He wrongly obeys an unjustified order to shoot.
    3) He rightly disobeys an unjustified order to shoot.
    4) He wrongly disobeys a justified order to shoot.

    Fortunately in the US most police orders to shoot are more or less justified. Anyway, I only believe that the police officer in question is guilty is guilty of murder when he obeys an unjustified order to shoot. And thus the question of how much guilt the coworkers may have only arises when there is some guilt to be shared.

    And what do you mean by:
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    If a police officer gets an order to shoot and does (and doesn't regret it), he is evil
    Did I ever write that regretting something makes someone not guilty of doing it? A number of people have suggested that Lelouch was not guilty of Euphemia's murder because he sometimes regretted it. Have you read any of my discussions about regret and guilt feelings or should I paste one in from one of my other posts?

    I say in several posts that almost everyone feels at least a little guilt and regret for killing someone, no matter how justified or unjustified the killing was, and that therefore regret for killing someone is no evidence that the killing was not murder.

    Your claim that I wrote that regret for a deed makes someone not guilty of it is not accurate and makes me seem to accept other people's arguments which I in fact reject. Your point is moot because you are refuting things I did not write.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    With that definition, almost all of the characters in Code Geass are evil, including Euphemia, because she is a Britannian (guilty by association). She may have criticized the actions of the Britannians but she never actively did anything to stop them from fighting and attacking (she even participated in the Battle of Narita of her own free will; she did not even try to stop the attack) nor did she up and leave the Britannian family in disgust (which she should have done the minute that she was able to understand what was going on); she did ultimately leave but only after the creation of the SAZ and as a part of the creation of the SAZ, not because she was disgusted. And, to make up for the invasion of Japan and the deaths of many Japanese, Euphemia decides to give them a portion of their land back? Yeah...that doesn't cut it, with your definition that the deed done must equally make up for the crime committed (again, your definition makes Euphemia guilty by association as a Britannian who did not actively stop any of the actions of the other Britannians).
    Here is part of my definition from my post # 29:

    "But being in the same organization, or loose group of organizations working for one common cause, as people who commit massacres and/or terrorism and not quitting in disgust or protesting or doing something to make massacres and/or terrorism a less common practice by those on your side, makes you an accessory or accomplice in my view."

    You object to my definition because it would make almost all the Code Geass characters evil. Here is another quotation from my post #29:

    "As near as I can tell the only characters who never did anything evil were Euphemia, Shirley, Milly, and Rivalez."

    Of course Shirley, Milly, and Rivalez are pretty much lightweights compared to the adult characters or the teenagers with serious responsibilities. So that leaves Euphemia as pretty much the only character who is innocent, and does positive good, and is serious due to important responsibilities.

    Clearly I am claiming that most of the Code Geass characters are evil. They are evil because of their own evil deeds or because they accept the evil practices of their organizations without quitting in disgust, or protesting, or doing something to make massacre and/or terrorism a less common practice by their side.

    'm going to bed, to be continued.

    I did not claim, for example, that every member of the Union army had to quit in disgust over the Sand creek Massacre in November 1864, or because of t eh orders which General Carlton allegedly gave in the winter of 1864 to 1865 to exterminate all the hostile Western Apaches. These things were little know in the east where most of the news was about the Civil war, and they were not policies of the government or the army as a whole.


    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Of course, that is just my opinion and I would rather not talk about that any further. You could PM me, but both of us know that it is not going to matter (I sincerely suggest that you give up on this annoying crusade).



    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Again, that ENTIRE argument is a moot point since Lelouch did not plan the Zero Requiem until AFTER Euphemia's death, hence the reason why part of the Requiem was to erase Euphemia's tarnished name.



    [quote=wolfgirl90;2324757]What are you talking about?! Its a freaking CARTOON! The producers of Code Geass are not expecting you to do ANYTHING!! If you like Lelouch, fine. If you hate Lelouch, fine. They really do not care what your opinion of him is. Seriously, they really do not care. In fact, they purposely made the series complex so that there would be multiple opinions about Lelouch and no person would be right or wrong (note the word "opinion").

    Your opinion about Lelouch is no more right or wrong than the opinions of everyone else here and I think everyone else here would agree with me on that. HOWEVER, you want to say that because he is evil, if we like him, there MUST be something wrong with us, which is why you feel comfortable by riding on a "moral" high horse and calling our morals into question and saying that we must have "latent violent tendencies" (yes, you did say this) for liking a particular CARTOON CHARACTER!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    I honestly do not care about your opinions about Lelouch and Euphemia. I am not saying that your opinions are wrong; I am saying that I do not care and I am not the only person who shares this sentiment. I certainly do not need to hear them in every other blasted forum that you lay your eyes on. Did it EVER occur to you that if you wanted to find like minded people who felt the same way about Euphemia that you did, that you should start a THREAD about it (amazingly, you have yet to do a "Do you like Euphemia" or a "Were you upset by Euphemia's death" thread)?!

    We are discussing a CARTOON! Not real life, not a reality show, not a live action movie, but a CARTOON!!

    If the death of a cartoon character shatters your reality SO MUCH that you can't handle it, that you must inform everyone about how "sad" it was, that you feel the need to call the morals of other people into question for the simple fact that they have a differing opinion than yours, then I suggest that you get off mommy and daddy's computer, since you are obviously either not old enough or mature enough to handle a discussion like this, and stop bringing up her death as if it caused the Earth to stop and the angels to cry out in agony. In fact, order a couple volumes of Tales of an Alternate Shogunate, where Euphemia is alive and well, so that you can enjoy Euphemia ON YOUR OWN!!
    Last edited by proEuphie; 09-05-2009 at 08:39 PM.

  18. #18
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
    Gil
    37,456.78
    Gender
    My Mood
    Wicked
    Gifts Eva Penpen Wolf Full Moon
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    05-29-2014 10:41 PM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, United States
    Age
    24
    Threads
    47
    Posts
    2,027
    Rep Power
    2242
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: DisturbedWiccan PSN ID: Wolfdragon63 Steam ID: Wolfgirl90

    Default

    ProEuphie, again, I understood what you were trying to say (your responses are really too long for a small post; I mean, technically you are on topic [sort of] but let's stop with the HUGE posts). I said there was a flaw in your argument that caused Euphemia to be guilty by association (not AS guilty as the other Britannians but still guilty), not that you were completely wrong, so there was no point in trying to prove that you are right. Again, it was my opinion...which was the point of the thread...to present one's opinion, not prove that yours is right.

    And again, I don't really care about you liking Euphemia. Honestly, there is absolutely nothing that you can do that that will change my opinion of Euphemia. In MY opinion, I think that she is the illegitimate love-child of Lacus Clyne and Relena Peacecraft and, just like Relena, she was so annoying I wanted her to be shot (as you and I both know, that is exactly what happened). However, that is MY opinion, one that is neither right or wrong. Trying to say that I am wrong or that I must have something wrong with me is not going to change my mind about Euphemia (or any other character, such as Lelouch); its just annoying.

    If she is your favorite character, fine. If you think that she is a goddess and the best character around, fine. And you are free to state your opinion...where it is needed. Invading every other thread to talk about how terrible and unnecessary her death was is not only not going to help you find like-minded people, but it also annoys the crap out of everyone else, especially when you use the straw man fallacy to assume that there must be something wrong with us or that its "frightening" if we don't express long-term outrage and deep sorrow over the death of a cartoon character (one that appeared in 18/50 episodes).

    If all you want to do is talk to other people who were saddened by Euphemia's death and/or are outraged that "the producers want the audience to sympathize with Lelouch", then fine. That's okay. But please make a thread about it, go to a Euphemia fan site (or start one yourself), or something but don't try to push this "Lelouch is bad because he killed my favorite character" spiel into every thread because its not going to help.

    And let's end it at that. You might post a couple of replies after this one, but I most likely will ignore them unless they are truly relevant to the thread (which they probably won't be).
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 09-05-2009 at 08:50 PM.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  19. #19
    Senior Member blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight's Avatar
    Gil
    15,718.21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    02-01-2014 01:53 PM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    I live some where in Michigan and thats all Im telling
    Age
    25
    Threads
    44
    Posts
    783
    Rep Power
    240

    Default

    He's an anti-hero, a hero who just doesnt play by the rules

  20. #20
    みんなで歌おうよ!
    AnimeLyrics Submitter Lv 2
    Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari's Avatar
    Gil
    4,801.69
    Gender
    Gifts Baka Squid Cow
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    06-14-2013 06:58 PM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Threads
    47
    Posts
    1,656
    AL Lyrics
    69
    Rep Power
    3501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blackrosetwilight View Post
    He's an anti-hero, a hero who just doesnt play by the rules
    Almost there. More specifically, he's a Byronic hero.

    Nightixu@hotmail.com: Nice analysis there. (Though I disagree about what you said regarding Kira...)

  21. #21
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
    Gil
    9,537.87
    Gender
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    12-26-2010 12:10 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    someplace
    Threads
    19
    Posts
    464
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by akuNoHikari View Post
    Almost there. More specifically, he's a Byronic hero.

    Nightixu@hotmail.com: Nice analysis there. (Though I disagree about what you said regarding Kira...)
    I don't see how being considered a Byronic hero can justify the crimes of Lelouch, such as murdering Euphemia for no good reason and no evil reason that makes any sense, and ordering the geass directorate massacre.

    In real life, if someone who fit the description of a Byronic hero killed someone that you loved, would you try to have him acquittted of that murder because he was a Byronic hero? If not, why should you continue to admire or respect any fictional Byronic hero for a single instant after he committs an evil deed typiclaly committed by fictional villains?

    I say that any Byronic hero who does something evil immediately becomes a villain, regardless of the literary conventions of Byronic heroes.

    I can not and do not want to lower the ethical standards I hold for respecting people in real life when dealing with fictional characters, no matter how many literary genres may have conventions that require readers (or viewers) to judge the protagonist by lower standards.

  22. #22
    みんなで歌おうよ!
    AnimeLyrics Submitter Lv 2
    Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari has a reputation beyond repute Aku no Hikari's Avatar
    Gil
    4,801.69
    Gender
    Gifts Baka Squid Cow
    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    06-14-2013 06:58 PM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Threads
    47
    Posts
    1,656
    AL Lyrics
    69
    Rep Power
    3501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    I don't see how being considered a Byronic hero can justify the crimes of Lelouch, such as murdering Euphemia for no good reason and no evil reason that makes any sense, and ordering the geass directorate massacre.
    I didn't say that being a Byronic character justifies anything he does. I was just stating the fact that he is.

    And besides, can you tell me one thing that I said that suggested that I was trying to justify him? As far as I remember, I said (in the other thread) that Lelouch committed "an unforgivable crime", which he had to pay for later. "Unforgivable" and "crime"? I think these words are more likely to suggest that I agree with you than to suggest that I don't. (Though actually I DON'T.) Seems like you just want to pointlessly keep asserting your viewpoints and keep arguing about them with other people, even if the other people said that they agree with you!! You just want a reason to argue. Actually, you don't even want a reason. You just want to argue.
    Last edited by Aku no Hikari; 01-26-2010 at 07:03 PM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    AnimeLyrics Submitter Lv 2
    Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose has a reputation beyond repute Magnetic Rose's Avatar
    Gil
    56,363.40
    Gender
    My Mood
    Psychadelic
    Gifts Hello Kitty Neko Tv Bonsai Tree
    Mentioned
    231 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    07-10-2014 10:44 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Singapore, Singapore, Singapore
    Age
    21
    Threads
    89
    Posts
    2,621
    Blog Entries
    113
    AL Lyrics
    2228
    Rep Power
    1672
    Gamer IDs

    Steam ID: aozorapen

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by akuNoHikari View Post
    Almost there. More specifically, he's a Byronic hero.
    ^ Makes me think of Heathcliff from Wuthering Heights.

    No, Lelouch doesn't really seem like one.


    いつからかの思い出…

  24. #24
    Cold-Blooded IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess has a reputation beyond repute IcePriestess's Avatar
    Gil
    11,171.91
    Gender
    My Mood
    Asleep
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    05-17-2011 10:46 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Lithuania
    Age
    19
    Threads
    30
    Posts
    557
    Rep Power
    532

    Default

    Yeez... Even though it's my thread, ProEuphie still likes to flood in it... Oh well... PM me if you ever see a post of ProEuphie where the name "Euphemia" isn't mentioned.

    I've read your thoughts and I totally agree with akuNoHikari. He totally matches Byronic Hero(well maybe not totally, but some points are very accurate).
    It is stupid to be afraid to die, but the most stupid thing is to be afraid to live.

  25. #25
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
    Gil
    9,537.87
    Gender
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Latest Post
    12-26-2010 12:10 AM
    User Info Thanks / Tagging Info Gifts / Achievements / Awards vBActivity Stats
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    someplace
    Threads
    19
    Posts
    464
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Lelouch(Zero) - Villain or Hero of Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by IcePriestess View Post
    Yeez... Even though it's my thread, ProEuphie still likes to flood in it... Oh well... PM me if you ever see a post of ProEuphie where the name "Euphemia" isn't mentioned.
    I started a thread discussing the date AD of Code Geass. I have many posts in it which do not mention Euphemia. I started a thread called Mecha Ethics and I did not mention the name of Euphemia in some of my posts in it.

    In the miscellaneous miscellany forum I have a series of threads called Horrors of History which are now on the third page of the forum, which do not mention Euphemia.

    And i just started a new thread in the Miscellaneous section called "Do some people want to be animals?" I have not mentioned euphemia in my first post and I don't expect that her name will be brought up in connection with people wanting to be animals.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. Music Lyrics - Post them right here - Music Lyrics
    By The Archangel in forum J-pop/rock (and other music)
    Replies: 3423
    Last Post: 12-15-2007, 10:13 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts