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Thread: Christianity vs Atheism Round 1

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Christianity vs Atheism Round 1

    WHOEVER SENT ME THAT COMMENT, I STATED THIS IS A PLACE FOR DEBATING AND EXPRESSING OPINIONS ON RELIGIOUS BELIEFS NOT FOR FLAMING.





    I didn't know if I was allowed to post this, if not I'm sorry.

    ANYWAYS...
    (if you post an opinion please back it up)
    This is a thread for posting your opinion and e-bating not for name calling and rude remarks.

    Anyways, I just wanted to know some of AF's member's opinions on religious affairs and such.

    I personally believe that there is no heaven or hell.
    My reasons are as followed:

    PRAYER
    Most people (religious) believe that their god answers prayer. If someone has a terminal illness and dies, it was the will of their god. If they somehow survive, it was a miracle.

    Prayer works<not literally, just in the saying of the human mind it works due to false belief> because people believe it works. In reality, the things prayed for have a 50-50 chance<most likely lower>of being answered. But when someone believes if they pray for, say, a new job and they have to stay at the old job instead, they believe their prayers were answered anyways.

    I don't believe in prayer and also don't believe any prayers have ever been answered anywhere in the world.
    Show me some proof and I will change my mind. Of course, I have been saying this for months now and haven't seen anything to change my mind. I don't expect anything to change because their would have to be a god to answer prayers and there are no gods<not Allah, not satan not Jesus no gods>. Only believers. That people can't see this is <infuriating> to me.
    But everyone has their own opinions I suppose. There is no destiny, fate, or anything of the category. Everything in this world is decided by chance, not by the will of some faulty mythical god. It's like saying drinking dragon blood gives you dragon powers(lame example, eh?).
    Anonymous:
    "The three possible answers to prayer are yes, no or not now but whatever the outcome it is always "Gods will". The dillema is that I always get the same results when I pray to a rock."

    If you submit proof god does or doesn't exist please make it logical.
    I don't go for that "he will show himself when the time is right" or "open your heart and he will show himself to you" crud.

    Or "he isn't real because it is impossible" State your facts, pal.

    P.S. I believe in Darwin's theory of evolution.

    P.S.S. If any offense is taken from this please PM me and I will apologize.
    Just putting my opinion.
    Last edited by k-kid; 06-20-2009 at 04:37 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Religion and logic are fundamentally incompatible.
    Last edited by Capernicus; 06-20-2009 at 03:07 PM.


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    I believe that this will quickly turn into a thread full of flames due to immaturity.
    The Tao of Rayne - Clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience...if that fails, try something in the dairy variety.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm Strife View Post
    I believe that this will quickly turn into a thread full of flames due to immaturity.
    I agree. ^

    There was a thread on religion not that long ago where people brought their immaturity with them and ruined it all.

    I don't like the title of this thread. Why is it atheism against Christianity? Atheists don't believe in any religion, not just Christianity.
    ~ Aura ~

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    From my visions of the world
    You will cry all alone
    But it does not mean a thing to me ..."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legend of the Twilight View Post
    I agree. ^

    There was a thread on religion not that long ago where people brought their immaturity with them and ruined it all.

    I don't like the title of this thread. Why is it atheism against Christianity? Atheists don't believe in any religion, not just Christianity.
    My bad, then. I was trying to put something to catch attention.
    I should've put Christianity vs Common Sense
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  6. #6
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    I am an atheist. I decided that was my general view of the world around the age of 13. Before that i didn't really care either way. I also decided a long time ago that any religious argument is doomed, simply because more than just the average person will boil down into a big ol pile of butt hurt if you say anything contrary to their beliefs. Or on the other side of the coin you have people that are generally apathetic towards the subject from seeing adults resort to childishness in the subject of religious views.

    I'd like to se a genuine thread come out of this, but i agree with Storm Strife
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buruku View Post
    Religion and logic are fundamentally incompatible.
    Not really. Logic can be applied to any set of premises. Religion and science are fundamentally incompatible, though, as science explicitly ignores the option of supernatural explanations.




    Christianity is based on the blind assumption that there is a God.
    Atheism is based on the blind assumption that there isn't a God.

    Both assumptions are unfounded. Ignosticism is the scientist's choice.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Scythe View Post
    I'd like to se a genuine thread come out of this, but i agree with Storm Strife
    As would I. The title would be better set as "religion vs aethism" or something similar.

    Anyway, what I meant by religion and logic being fundamentally incompatible is neither can coexist with the other. The vast majority of all religions are built on faith, which is defined (by dictionary.com) as "belief that is not based on proof". If one were to think logically about religion, then that person would not possess faith and therefore is not following his/her religion. If one were to have faith in, for the sake of this discussion, religious doctrines, then that person is not thinking logically. The two are mutually exclusive. That is the simple truth.

    I personally hold to a mixture of religious ideas (NOT doctrines) and logical reasoning that I find work well for me. Everyone must find the balance that they feel comfortable with. It is a right granted to everyone in my country (the US), and I think it's the best solution out there.


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buruku View Post
    As would I. The title would be better set as "religion vs aethism" or something similar.

    Anyway, what I meant by religion and logic being fundamentally incompatible is neither can coexist with the other. The vast majority of all religions are built on faith, which is defined (by dictionary.com) as "belief that is not based on proof". If one were to think logically about religion, then that person would not possess faith and therefore is not following his/her religion. If one were to have faith in, for the sake of this discussion, religious doctrines, then that person is not thinking logically. The two are mutually exclusive. That is the simple truth.

    I personally hold to a mixture of religious ideas (NOT doctrines) and logical reasoning that I find work well for me. Everyone must find the balance that they feel comfortable with. It is a right granted to everyone in my country (the US), and I think it's the best solution out there.
    I think I understand where you come from.

    I guess I shouldn't have made this post.

    Now I see that it's pointless.




    (maybe mods can do me a favor and delete this?)
    Last edited by k-kid; 06-20-2009 at 03:24 PM. Reason: Typo.
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  10. #10
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    Personally I think that religion is just someone feels the need to have/believe in, in order to cope with life (I'm not trying to bash anyone, just giving my two cents on the topic)

  11. #11
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    I consider myself an Atheist. I'll stop there just because one way or another this thread is bound to get out of hand.





  12. #12
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    Best to cut the head of a wolf before it kills your cattle!

    (get the point, some one delete this thread please)

    Your right, though.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by k-kid View Post
    My bad, then. I was trying to put something to catch attention.
    I should've put Christianity vs Common Sense
    I ought to point out that the greatest scientific minds of our time, and of times past, have been religious (the specific faiths vary). Regardless, this is a silly topic. Both 'sides' assume they are correct, yet neither can prove their position.


    Bad Memory

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Show View Post
    I ought to point out that the greatest scientific minds of our time, and of times past, have been religious (the specific faiths vary). Regardless, this is a silly topic. Both 'sides' assume they are correct, yet neither can prove their position.


    Bad Memory
    Please refresh my mind and tell me who these great religious scientific minds are? Virtually 99% of world scientists are either Atheist or Agnostic.

    As long as this thread is up, use the opportunity.





  15. #15
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    Before this gets locked I have two quotes a friend shared to me by H.P.Lovecraft:

    If religion were true, its followers would not try to bludgeon their young into an artificial conformity; but would merely insist on their unbending quest for truth, irrespective of artificial backgrounds or practical consequences. ~H.P.Lovecraft


    Bunch together a group of people deliberately chosen for strong religious feelings, and you have a practical guarantee of dark morbidities expressed in crime, perversion, and insanity. ~H.P. Lovecraft

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Show View Post
    I ought to point out that the greatest scientific minds of our time, and of times past, have been religious (the specific faiths vary). Regardless, this is a silly topic. Both 'sides' assume they are correct, yet neither can prove their position.


    Bad Memory
    QOUTE
    "I ought to point out that the greatest scientific minds of our time, and of times past, have been religious."


    "Let's all jump on the bandwagon!!" Is the way I interpreted that.



    This is a silly topic as I've stated previously now can someone delete it before the haters come.
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    I'll give religion one thing, it is the foundation of morals in society today. Thats where it ends though. Nothing good I can say about it after that.





  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takizawa View Post
    I'll give religion one thing, it is the foundation of morals in society today. Thats where it ends though. Nothing good I can say about it after that.
    I'd have to disagree with that. Because the morals they are teaching are dogmatic morals. And morals are different for different people. Not all people are the same. And all religion does is enforce one moral rule down your throat and expect you to follow them. They don't allow you to modify the moral rule to your personal belief.

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  19. #19
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    Yeah and on that note its time to end this thread
    Last edited by Teddy2116; 06-20-2009 at 03:51 PM.

  20. #20
    [noblesse.oblige] Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa has a reputation beyond repute Takizawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rem Nightfall View Post
    I'd have to disagree with that. Because the morals they are teaching are dogmatic morals. And morals are different for different people. Not all people are the same. And all religion does is enforce one moral rule down your throat and expect you to follow them. They don't allow you to modify the moral rule to your personal belief.
    That is undoubtedly true but all I said was they are the foundation of morals, which means the start. Obviously today we see things differently and morals, like you said, are different for everyone. They are however the "start" a.k.a. "foundation" of morals.





  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legend of the Twilight View Post
    Atheists don't believe in any religion, not just Christianity.
    Depends on if the religion has beliefs in a higher deity. Atheism is "the absence of belief in the existence of deities". This would make it possible for an atheist to be, say, a Theravada Buddhist.
    The Tao of Rayne - Clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience...if that fails, try something in the dairy variety.


  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takizawa View Post
    That is undoubtedly true but all I said was they are the foundation of morals, which means the start. Obviously today we see things differently and morals, like you said, are different for everyone. They are however the "start" a.k.a. "foundation" of morals.
    I understand that. And I had to say my peace. Don't worry I can see where you're getting at and where I can agree there needs to be a little where I can't.

    Wedding is in October. And I'm going to be a dad. Super excited.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm Strife View Post
    Depends on if the religion has beliefs in a higher deity. Atheism is "the absence of belief in the existence of deities". This would make it possible for an atheist to be, say, a Theravada Buddhist.

    Hmm i think i like that view of it

  24. #24
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    Does it matter which belief is correct?

    Asking for proof of God, or proof of prayers being answered is all going to bring anecdotal evidence at best. One person may believe without a shadow of a doubt that they experienced something, but they cannot prove it to you.

    But why does it matter? Believe what you will. We will all find out the truth when we die. Or we won't. If you want to live life as an atheist, that's your prerogative. A Christian should say that you received Free Will from God, and that your life is for you to live how you choose.

    We all die. Well, unless we're immortal or something, but I doubt any of you here are named Lestat, or have silver sparkles in the sun, we all die. When we die, several things may happen. We meet God. We meet the God we should have worshipped but didn't. We are reincarnated. Or maybe nothing at all happens.

    If nothing happens, no one will ever know the difference no matter what they believed. If there is a God, his true followers will be vindicated. If he is perfect as the Bible says, then no one who didn't follow will go to Hell immediately. [Don't argue with me, Christians, your book was written by men, not by God. Men are fickle creatures.]

    What harm, then, does it do for someone to believe? If it brings them comfort and happiness, then it's good. If they're wasting their time, they'll never find out otherwise.

    Really, Atheists are the only ones who have something to lose here, according to the Christians. As I said, I disagree. Man cannot know understand a supreme being, nor should he profess to know the will of such a being, if any.

    I'm not addressing Islam here, I don't know enough about it, have a preconceived opinion about it, and don't care to change that opinion. Rest assured, it is not polite.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by revile View Post
    Does it matter which belief is correct?

    Asking for proof of God, or proof of prayers being answered is all going to bring anecdotal evidence at best. One person may believe without a shadow of a doubt that they experienced something, but they cannot prove it to you.

    But why does it matter? Believe what you will. We will all find out the truth when we die. Or we won't. If you want to live life as an atheist, that's your prerogative. A Christian should say that you received Free Will from God, and that your life is for you to live how you choose.

    We all die. Well, unless we're immortal or something, but I doubt any of you here are named Lestat, or have silver sparkles in the sun, we all die. When we die, several things may happen. We meet God. We meet the God we should have worshipped but didn't. We are reincarnated. Or maybe nothing at all happens.

    If nothing happens, no one will ever know the difference no matter what they believed. If there is a God, his true followers will be vindicated. If he is perfect as the Bible says, then no one who didn't follow will go to Hell immediately. [Don't argue with me, Christians, your book was written by men, not by God. Men are fickle creatures.]

    What harm, then, does it do for someone to believe? If it brings them comfort and happiness, then it's good. If they're wasting their time, they'll never find out otherwise.

    Really, Atheists are the only ones who have something to lose here, according to the Christians. As I said, I disagree. Man cannot know understand a supreme being, nor should he profess to know the will of such a being, if any.

    I'm not addressing Islam here, I don't know enough about it, have a preconceived opinion about it, and don't care to change that opinion. Rest assured, it is not polite.
    If everything happens in the will of god, then how is he ever verifiable?

    Well peeps, Bruno is out. So go and either download a rip or buy a copy.

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