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Thread: I demand satisfaction!

  1. #1
    4: [Classified brah] Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris's Avatar
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    Default I demand satisfaction!

    Let me first define a modmin. Instead of writing mod/admin everywhere, I'm going to write modmin.

    There has been a notable decline in moderation quality as of late. I speak mainly of misc, because that's where I mostly post. I'm not directing this against anyone in particular, but moderation is inconsistent, sloppy and downright confusing on a daily basis.

    The following practices are contributors to this decline:

    Inconsistent modmination. If one modmin approves of a thread, then it is desirable that other modmins respect this, and don't spam in it. When modmins whine and spam in threads they don't like, it makes them look petty and when they themselves modminate spam, also hypocritical.

    Wanton removal of posts in mid-discussion. Post-removal is naturally the thing to do if the post is an advertisement, or contains shock images. But to remove portions of a discussion that are a bit off-topic actually generates more of a disruption than the spam that was removed, because of all the people who are confused by it and post about their confusion. Furthermore, there is no accountability in this if a post was unjustly removed, since the remover leaves no trace of his/her actions.

    Cruel and unusual modmination. Related to the above, to censor, edit or otherwise punish posts that don't break the rules, but that upsets the moderator is clearly a bad thing. But still, it happens.

    Moderation and discussion in the same post. I've seen modmins write huge opinionated posts, and then close a thread for discussion. This is a textbook case of abuse of modmination powers. It makes the modmin in question look like a jerk, and breeds resentment and frustration.

    All of these phenomena act to generate frustration, and erode the respect of the modmins. This is naturally the modmins' right, so long as they understand that when people stop respecting them, they will no longer listen to what they're saying, so they'll be forced to modminate in terror instead of in respect. And respect is not something that grows on trees. It's a PR nightmare that you don't want to end up in.

    You guys need guidelines. A clear and simple set of rules. If such rules exists, they're clearly either incomplete or not followed. Here's some principles to start you off with:

    1. Accountability. It's clearly a bad thing when a post is ninja-modminated (modminated without a trace of who did it or why.) Make it a rule-of-thumb to leave a post explaining roughly the motivation and what was done (unless it's blatantly obvious.)
    2. Objectivity. What the modmin thinks of the topic of the discussion should not be a major criterion for whether it's allowed to stay open or not.
    3. Consistency. What measure is taken against an infringing post shouldn't vary greatly depending on what modmin happens to see it first.

    Last edited by Eris; 06-11-2009 at 05:50 PM.



    Hey look, Japan made a movie about me!

  2. #2
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    i have experienced a few of the points you speak about and i completely agree. id say the major one would be consistency though, i hate how some mods are lax whilst others are tight, also how some make decisions based on their own views and such. it should be clear cut, if it doesnt break the rules and isnt OBViously spam, then it shouldnt be closed regardless of the mods personal view on it.

    set made by someone very dear to me, who i doubt you know.

  3. #3
    Moderator Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro's Avatar
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    Default

    When users stop posting such off-topic things, flames, and callous insults to one-another and the site staff, things can change. But for the time being, if you can't play nice, then why should your post be left in the thread on the off chance that it has something to do with the discussion, when it is mostly a long winded insult to whomever crossed your path. And that goes for everyone.

    Also, I think it would be appreciated if the pots weren't calling the kettles black and the spammers wouldn't complain about spamming.
    Especially in threads that contain a whole lot of spam. It is funny how often the members do it, but as soon as a mod or admin points it out, there are so many complaints. Even in the threads that are seemingly produced to generate spam.

    Another thing to keep in mind that mods and admins are people too. They want to post too. But they have a certain level of responsibility to keep and maintain, and if they think something is out of line--they can do their jobs as they see fit, and only when Kaitou or Minako find something wrong with it are they to be corrected. Not by the members. If the members choose not to listen and to become a problem, there are several really easy ways to fix that. If they have to mod and post at the same time, then so be it. The function and option is there for a reason.

    I am sorry that you feel that you don't have the freedom you feel is entitled to you on the internet. I really am.

    If anyone ever has any questions or complaints, we'd be happy to hear them, but please know that name calling, telling us how to run the forum, and using cheap scare tactics to get us to mod things the way you think they should be will not get you very far. Further more "demanding satisfaction", won't do you much good because you don't do anything to deserve or earn it accept log on and participate at your own leisure.

  4. #4
    Nanobyte's minion SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishiro View Post
    It is funny how often the members do it, but as soon as a mod or admin points it out, there are so many complaints. Even in the threads that are seemingly produced to generate spam.
    Yeah I just have a question on what constitutes as spam. Ok lets say I make a really stupid remark and try to relate it to the thread (which most likely will be trolling of some kind) but then I go on to answer the thread question correctly. Is that still considered spamming?

  5. #5
    Moderator Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro has a reputation beyond repute Kishiro's Avatar
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    Most people know that they are about to make a spam post before they do it.
    Please use your best judgment when doing so. I would hope there is a REALLY good reason behind it.

    To answer your question,
    Quote Originally Posted by SigmaSD View Post
    I make a really stupid remark and try to relate it to the thread (which most likely will be trolling of some kind) but then I go on to answer the thread question correctly. Is that still considered spamming?
    If your post has more to do with answering the actual question, then no. And it's not like you aren't allowed to make jokes or silly remarks. Just don't let that be all you're doing just for the sake of getting lulz, attention, or disrupting the conversation. THAT, would be considered trolling.

    And I know some may be thinking "Well what about when staff.." yes yes. We all do it from time to time. Neither normal members nor staff are guilt free of spam or trolling certain threads for whatever one reason or another. Usually what is complained to be spam in terms of staff are usually posts that point out how members are spamming, or how people are using threads as a giant suck-up festival instead of actually posting something intelligent and contributing to a good discussion.

  6. #6
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    I agree with Damn Skippy.
    My view on this whole Modmin situation:

    The mods do not contribute at all to AF only to make fun of their members.
    And when their policies are questioned that member is automatically considered a troll.
    If there was a policy, in the real world, that the government made I would have the right and luxury to speak out and protest it.
    That is the way it should be here as well.
    We are members of this forum.
    We are using the service you created for us.
    And if we are using your services and we are following your policies then as members we have the right to speak out.
    We have the right to say what we want to say.
    We should have oppurtunities on AF to improve.
    Oppurtunities to make this a better place then what it is.
    But it will never happen with the Bully Mods and the Bully admins.
    Who waste their power teasing and being cruel.


    "There exist only three respectable beings: the priest, the warrior, the poet. To know, to kill, and to create."-Charles Baudelaire

  7. #7
    Forever 12. Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkly Perriwinkle View Post
    I agree with Damn Skippy.
    My view on this whole Modmin situation:

    The mods do not contribute at all to AF only to make fun of their members.
    And when their policies are questioned that member is automatically considered a troll.
    If there was a policy, in the real world, that the government made I would have the right and luxury to speak out and protest it.
    That is the way it should be here as well.
    We are members of this forum.
    We are using the service you created for us.
    And if we are using your services and we are following your policies then as members we have the right to speak out.
    We have the right to say what we want to say.
    We should have oppurtunities on AF to improve.
    Oppurtunities to make this a better place then what it is.
    But it will never happen with the Bully Mods and the Bully admins.
    Who waste their power teasing and being cruel.
    For Future Reference: Anime Forum is not the real world.
    Last edited by Memento Mori; 06-12-2009 at 03:38 PM.
    On this day of days, most epic and prideful, you were born 15 whole American years ago!
    Through the odds and by doing the impossible, you beat out hundreds of thousands of siblings in the great sperm race for the coveted egg.
    Probably via hax.
    Regardless! You won!
    So remember, whenever someone picks on you or calls you weak or small.
    Just remind them that you beat out a few hundred thousand other wimps.

    And the grand prize was not dying!

  8. #8
    The Greekest Letter in the Alphabet. Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkly Perriwinkle View Post
    I agree with Damn Skippy.
    My view on this whole Modmin situation:

    The mods do not contribute at all to AF only to make fun of their members.
    I just wanted to point out that a good amount of the staff does -not- do this.

    ..unless its Mavericker.

    I think most of the problems I see here stemmed from the Hall of Fame/Shame thread. Honestly, I didnt realize the thread was such a problem until after the fact. I -thought- it would be like the Yearbook, and wouldnt need me popping in all that much, but its aparent now that I should have.

    With the points that were brought up-

    Wanton removal of posts in mid-discussion.

    In -my- cases [as I speak solely for myself and only myself], its more than one post that has gone off topic. So, instead of deleting each individual post, I use the multiple delete. I also find it personally unfair that a member who is spamming in some way, shape or form should be allowed to simply have thier post edited and get to keep that post in their post count.

    Cruel and unusual modmination.

    I dont think Ive ever seen this. I have personally edited posts that contained profanity or were borderline baiting/flaming. Thats it.

    Moderation and discussion in the same post.

    Do you mean posting their opinion of the discussion and then closing it? I usually post -why- Im closing a thread, nothing more. It usually along the lines of "closed for lenght" or "closed for spam" or something along those lines. Im not going to lie and say that Ive never closed a thread without posting at all either, because I have. Its usually that Im working on more than one thing, or Im pressed for time and it -needs- to be closed before things get worse. I try not to do it often, but it cant be helped at times, because I am a full time college student, and college can be very time consuming.

    There has been a notable decline in moderation quality as of late. I speak mainly of misc, because that's where I mostly post. I'm not directing this against anyone in particular, but moderation is inconsistent, sloppy and downright confusing on a daily basis.
    Hate to break it to you, but Kewii and Missy are very busy people. More often than not, I run Misc by myself. Its a HUGE section, and Im only one person. If I had more time to put into moderating, then I would. Lately some of the admins have been stepping in once in a while to moderate, and Im grateful for that. It helps take some of the load off of me.

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  9. #9
    //15 Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkly Perriwinkle View Post
    I agree with Damn Skippy.
    My view on this whole Modmin situation:

    The mods do not contribute at all to AF only to make fun of their members.
    And when their policies are questioned that member is automatically considered a troll.
    If there was a policy, in the real world, that the government made I would have the right and luxury to speak out and protest it.
    That is the way it should be here as well.
    We are members of this forum.
    We are using the service you created for us.
    And if we are using your services and we are following your policies then as members we have the right to speak out.
    We have the right to say what we want to say.
    We should have oppurtunities on AF to improve.
    Oppurtunities to make this a better place then what it is.
    But it will never happen with the Bully Mods and the Bully admins.
    Who waste their power teasing and being cruel.
    While I agree with some of the points Eris makes, your post is a bunch of hippy propaganda that sounds more like whining than it sounds constructive.

    Kaitou and Mina own this site. It is their property. They are giving you permission to use it by keeping your account active. But according to your logic, you deserve free reign because it is their time and their effort and their dedication that keep this place running.

    If you knew anything about what goes on behind the scenes, you'd know that we do much more than just complain about and make fun of our members. There are hours upon hours of work done on the sites (though I'll freely admit this is not my own doing. But I am around to see it). Issues/new ideas are discussed bi weekly. We love this place. If we didn't, we'd leave. We're not here to hate everyone. Personally, I love some of the people on this forum - admins/moderaters (modmins if that's what you want to call us) as well as regular members.

    Your need for luxury does not necessitate an emergency on our end. If you want luxury, make your own, or go somewhere else. This is not a democracy. This is a private enterprise. This is not a country, and you were not born of this forum, raised by this forum, nor released out into this world by the forum. You are here BY CHOICE, and by coming here you agree to the rules. (have you read them? great literature).

    If you have conerns, we will hear them - if they are delivered coherently with some measure of respect. You want respect? Respect us. I realize this is an issue, and I agree that it should be addressed. As a chat admin, I consider myself just a regular member when it comes to posting, and sometimes I wonder what the hell is going on in some of these threads when posts are deleted.

    You have the right to say what you want... if what you want to say follows the rules.

    Eris was at least constructive. You sound like a naive rabble rouser shaking your fist from a soap box.

     
    Maybe you should PM someone instead of writing really thinly veiled poetry about how all of the admins on this forum suck.


    Some day, you'll dine on a solid snake.


  10. #10
    Jeezy Creezy kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan has a reputation beyond repute kero_-_chan's Avatar
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    well minako will probably bite me for 'stepping outside my bounds' but ill say it anyways.

    you know maru, as i understand it, your the only one of the 3 with enough time to moderate misc, but even then not 24/7 (and its a 24/7 board) i reckon there ought to be a knew recruit to help you out aye o.o (and i spent 5 minutes trying to say this without sounding like im suggesting myself.....id hate to moderate here o.O)
    Last edited by kero_-_chan; 06-12-2009 at 04:30 PM. Reason: ****ing typos! o.o

    set made by someone very dear to me, who i doubt you know.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian's Avatar
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    I don't understand what you guys are talking about. The only moderators I have ever really seen post are Gja and Marudashi (on occasion Alvein).


    The only problem I can think of with moderators is the lack of posting. One post a week couldn't hurt to prove that you're still around. I'm not asking for 10 posts everyday, but something to let us know you're alive.

    you know maru, as i understand it, your the only one of the 3 with enough time to moderate misc, but even then not 24/7 (and its a 24/7 board) i reckon there ought to be a knew recruit to help you ought aye o.o (and i spent 5 minutes trying to say this without sounding like im suggesting myself.....id hate to moderate here o.O)
    I was thinking of this too. Is it possible that we can nominate new moderators to help Marudashi?
    Last edited by Diocletian; 06-12-2009 at 04:30 PM.

  12. #12
    4: [Classified brah] Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kishiro View Post
    Another thing to keep in mind that mods and admins are people too. They want to post too. But they have a certain level of responsibility to keep and maintain, and if they think something is out of line--they can do their jobs as they see fit, and only when Kaitou or Minako find something wrong with it are they to be corrected. Not by the members. If the members choose not to listen and to become a problem, there are several really easy ways to fix that. If they have to mod and post at the same time, then so be it. The function and option is there for a reason.
    Kaitou and Minako naturally have the last say on anything that goes on, but it's always healthy to discuss the matters at hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishiro View Post
    I am sorry that you feel that you don't have the freedom you feel is entitled to you on the internet. I really am.
    I really don't feel I've come to any particular injustice on AF. Do you feel you've done me injustice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishiro View Post
    If anyone ever has any questions or complaints, we'd be happy to hear them, but please know that name calling, telling us how to run the forum, and using cheap scare tactics to get us to mod things the way you think they should be will not get you very far. Further more "demanding satisfaction", won't do you much good because you don't do anything to deserve or earn it accept log on and participate at your own leisure.
    Please point me to the name-calling, telling you how to run the forum and scare-tactics, and I'll edit it out of the OP my self. These are naturally only suggestions. You're naturally free to ignore them all you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaruDashi View Post
    I think most of the problems I see here stemmed from the Hall of Fame/Shame thread. Honestly, I didnt realize the thread was such a problem until after the fact. I -thought- it would be like the Yearbook, and wouldnt need me popping in all that much, but its aparent now that I should have.
    It really wasn't all that spammy. There were a few disagreements, but it was nowhere near the flamewars we've seen in sensitive topics (e.g. is abortion right?, is god real?, do vampires exist?, ...)

    Quote Originally Posted by MaruDashi View Post
    Wanton removal of posts in mid-discussion.

    In -my- cases [as I speak solely for myself and only myself], its more than one post that has gone off topic. So, instead of deleting each individual post, I use the multiple delete. I also find it personally unfair that a member who is spamming in some way, shape or form should be allowed to simply have thier post edited and get to keep that post in their post count.
    As I said, there are exceptions where it's completely acceptable, but it's dangerous to use as a default moderation tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaruDashi View Post
    Cruel and unusual modmination.

    I dont think Ive ever seen this. I have personally edited posts that contained profanity or were borderline baiting/flaming. Thats it.
    Editing posts is a million times better than removing them alltogether. That way you can see the telltale "edited by [modmin]" at the bottom. Removing them is incredibly confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaruDashi View Post
    Moderation and discussion in the same post.

    Do you mean posting their opinion of the discussion and then closing it? I usually post -why- Im closing a thread, nothing more. It usually along the lines of "closed for lenght" or "closed for spam" or something along those lines. Im not going to lie and say that Ive never closed a thread without posting at all either, because I have. Its usually that Im working on more than one thing, or Im pressed for time and it -needs- to be closed before things get worse. I try not to do it often, but it cant be helped at times, because I am a full time college student, and college can be very time consuming.
    Not in misc, but still. I've seen this elsewhere as well. Not very common, but it pisses me off every time I see it happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaruDashi View Post
    Hate to break it to you, but Kewii and Missy are very busy people. More often than not, I run Misc by myself. Its a HUGE section, and Im only one person. If I had more time to put into moderating, then I would. Lately some of the admins have been stepping in once in a while to moderate, and Im grateful for that. It helps take some of the load off of me.
    I really don't have a problem with your moderation since you usually leave a notice of describing what you've done and moderate objectively and all that. Maybe the problem is that misc is understaffed? The fewer people to actually moderate it the larger pressure to come in and "clean things up."
    Last edited by Eris; 06-12-2009 at 05:07 PM.



    Hey look, Japan made a movie about me!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
    If you have conerns, we will hear them - if they are delivered coherently with some measure of respect. You want respect? Respect us.
    This is totally true, i eventually found out for myself that problems and/or confusion are generally much better dealt with by making a calm, straightforward PM to the related Mod. They tend to be less reactive when approached in this manner as opposed to "YOU SUCK, I"M RIGHT, YOU"RE WRONG, RABBLE RABBLE RABBLER!!!!!".

    You have the right to say what you want... if what you want to say follows the rules.
    In soviet AF, thread posts YOU!

    You sound like a naive rabble rouser shaking your fist from a soap box.
    <.< *cough*

     
    Maybe you should PM someone instead of writing really thinly veiled poetry about how all of the admins on this forum suck.
    Hey!,
    what a great idea right there,
    you should really try it sometime,
    instead of pulling your hair,
    and using your bad rhyme.
    THUG LIFE
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  14. #14
    LUCKY DUCK Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damn Skippy View Post
    Let me first define a modmin. Instead of writing mod/admin everywhere, I'm going to write modmin.

    There has been a notable decline in moderation quality as of late. I speak mainly of misc, because that's where I mostly post. I'm not directing this against anyone in particular, but moderation is inconsistent, sloppy and downright confusing on a daily basis.

    The following practices are contributors to this decline:

    Inconsistent modmination. If one modmin approves of a thread, then it is desirable that other modmins respect this, and don't spam in it. When modmins whine and spam in threads they don't like, it makes them look petty and when they themselves modminate spam, also hypocritical.

    Wanton removal of posts in mid-discussion. Post-removal is naturally the thing to do if the post is an advertisement, or contains shock images. But to remove portions of a discussion that are a bit off-topic actually generates more of a disruption than the spam that was removed, because of all the people who are confused by it and post about their confusion. Furthermore, there is no accountability in this if a post was unjustly removed, since the remover leaves no trace of his/her actions.
    These are pretty much the only two points I agree with. Moderators (and excuse me if I'm overstepping boundaries) and administrators alike do not collaborate nearly as much as they should. Now, I'm sure there are tons and tons of things on this issue in the staff forum (isn't that what it's for?), but it doesn't seem like anyone is really taking it seriously. There has always been a slight inconsistency in policies, which is understandable because some mods are just naturally light about things and some are super serious.

    But lately...it's just so bad. Mods are spamming in threads because they think the topic is useless but the minute a member pops in and does that they are crucified. Really? Serious? I've seen modmins expound in threads that "Were just like regular members, just with a few extra options", which is such bull. Mods can't delete other mods posts, which I understand the reason why (I mean, they're the same rank and all), but that is an obvious character of someone not a regular member. Also, they don't act like regular members when questioned, you can reference both Kishiro and Fiery for that.

    Also, the whole deleting the post policy is just not working. Yes, it causes a lot of unneeded disruption when people spam/troll, but it causes considerably more disruption when those posts are deleted. And since when has post count really meant anything? It doesn't REALLY matter. And if it does, there should be the option to lower the post count.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishiro View Post
    ...but please know that name calling...
    I didn't hear any name calling. Though, I did hear the "pots calling the kettles black".

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
    While I agree with some of the points Eris makes, your post is a bunch of hippy propaganda that sounds more like whining than it sounds constructive.

    Kaitou and Mina own this site. It is their property. They are giving you permission to use it by keeping your account active. But according to your logic, you deserve free reign because it is their time and their effort and their dedication that keep this place running.

    If you knew anything about what goes on behind the scenes, you'd know that we do much more than just complain about and make fun of our members. There are hours upon hours of work done on the sites (though I'll freely admit this is not my own doing. But I am around to see it). Issues/new ideas are discussed bi weekly. We love this place. If we didn't, we'd leave. We're not here to hate everyone. Personally, I love some of the people on this forum - admins/moderaters (modmins if that's what you want to call us) as well as regular members.

    Your need for luxury does not necessitate an emergency on our end. If you want luxury, make your own, or go somewhere else. This is not a democracy. This is a private enterprise. This is not a country, and you were not born of this forum, raised by this forum, nor released out into this world by the forum. You are here BY CHOICE, and by coming here you agree to the rules. (have you read them? great literature).

    If you have concerns, we will hear them - if they are delivered coherently with some measure of respect. You want respect? Respect us. I realize this is an issue, and I agree that it should be addressed. As a chat admin, I consider myself just a regular member when it comes to posting, and sometimes I wonder what the hell is going on in some of these threads when posts are deleted.
    Then why does this entire post sound like you consider yourself above us? I'm not saying you are or aren't, just wondering why you're being inconsistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
    I was thinking of this too. Is it possible that we can nominate new moderators to help Marudashi?
    I"VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS! Seriously. I know Kewii and Missy are really busy and I respect that, but it doesn't help much in the running of the site. If you don't want to remove them for it (which I think they should, but sometimes the amount of respect there overrides that and I understand), then there should be a fourth extremely active misc mod there to help Maru out. A forum should only need admins to step in when say the mod goes on a short vacation or when there's some kind of organized attack. It should not be the norm.
    Last edited by Capernicus; 06-12-2009 at 05:38 PM.


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  15. #15
    Senior Member Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaruDashi View Post
    Cruel and unusual modmination.

    I dont think Ive ever seen this. I have personally edited posts that contained profanity or were borderline baiting/flaming. Thats it.
    When my poems were fire bombed by modmins and members on the forum.
    Yeah cruel, modmination doesn't exist.

    While I agree with some of the points Eris makes, your post is a bunch of hippy propaganda that sounds more like whining than it sounds constructive.

    Kaitou and Mina own this site. It is their property. They are giving you permission to use it by keeping your account active. But according to your logic, you deserve free reign because it is their time and their effort and their dedication that keep this place running.

    If you knew anything about what goes on behind the scenes, you'd know that we do much more than just complain about and make fun of our members. There are hours upon hours of work done on the sites (though I'll freely admit this is not my own doing. But I am around to see it). Issues/new ideas are discussed bi weekly. We love this place. If we didn't, we'd leave. We're not here to hate everyone. Personally, I love some of the people on this forum - admins/moderaters (modmins if that's what you want to call us) as well as regular members.

    Your need for luxury does not necessitate an emergency on our end. If you want luxury, make your own, or go somewhere else. This is not a democracy. This is a private enterprise. This is not a country, and you were not born of this forum, raised by this forum, nor released out into this world by the forum. You are here BY CHOICE, and by coming here you agree to the rules. (have you read them? great literature).

    If you have conerns, we will hear them - if they are delivered coherently with some measure of respect. You want respect? Respect us. I realize this is an issue, and I agree that it should be addressed. As a chat admin, I consider myself just a regular member when it comes to posting, and sometimes I wonder what the hell is going on in some of these threads when posts are deleted.
    AF may be a forum, but it still has relationships to the real world.
    AF has a policy and it has politics as well.
    AF still has to follow the laws of the government in the real world as the ones they created.
    I don't agree with your politics or policy and under my government laws and rules I have the right and the freedom to speak out.
    Same with a forum.

    Yes, the mods would get mores respect if they respected their members back.
    Most mods are cruel, deceitful, and pretty much have an attitude issue.
    They let the power to get their heads.
    And I'm not going to respect an authority figure you like that.

    This isn't a poem.
    This isn't some rhythmical thing.
    It's short sentences for you to understand.


    "There exist only three respectable beings: the priest, the warrior, the poet. To know, to kill, and to create."-Charles Baudelaire

  16. #16
    Forever 12. Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori has a reputation beyond repute Memento Mori's Avatar
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    AF may be a forum, but it still has relationships to the real world.
    AF has a policy and it has politics as well.
    AF still has to follow the laws of the government in the real world as the ones they created.
    I don't agree with your politics or policy and under my government laws and rules I have the right and the freedom to speak out.
    Same with a forum.
    Someone is unaware of the words 'privately owned.'

    Yes, the mods would get mores respect if they respected their members back.
    Most mods are cruel, deceitful, and pretty much have an attitude issue.
    They let the power to get their heads.
    And I'm not going to respect an authority figure you like that.
    Mods having an attitude issue? I'm sorry but the only member in this thread having any attitude is you.

    I've been publicly bashed on other sites for being 14. That's the only reason, I'm not joking.

    Every modmin I've ever spoken to on this site has treated me kindly, ever since I first joined when I was 12. While we sometimes argue, they aren't cruel, they're respectful.

    This isn't a poem.
    This isn't some rhythmical thing.
    It's short sentences for you to understand.
    Are you saying that the modmins would be too stupid to understand it if you used longer sentences?
    Last edited by Memento Mori; 06-12-2009 at 05:54 PM.
    On this day of days, most epic and prideful, you were born 15 whole American years ago!
    Through the odds and by doing the impossible, you beat out hundreds of thousands of siblings in the great sperm race for the coveted egg.
    Probably via hax.
    Regardless! You won!
    So remember, whenever someone picks on you or calls you weak or small.
    Just remind them that you beat out a few hundred thousand other wimps.

    And the grand prize was not dying!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkly Perriwinkle View Post
    When my poems were fire bombed by modmins and members on the forum.
    Yeah cruel, modmination doesn't exist.
    Your poetry was just rants directed toward me because I didn't care for your ideas regarding the changing of the rules in General Anime/Manga.

    As staff, we deal with far more crap and pissy members than you can possibly realize, especially when dealing with multiple websites and a chatroom, so when some nimrod decides to attack one of us directly, we do not take kindly of it.

    If you weren't so self-righteous about the issue, as you are with just about everything you stick your nose into, there wouldn't have been a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkly Something-or-other
    AF may be a forum, but it still has relationships to the real world.
    AF has a policy and it has politics as well.
    AF still has to follow the laws of the government in the real world as the ones they created.
    I don't agree with your politics or policy and under my government laws and rules I have the right and the freedom to speak out.
    Same with a forum.
    AF's connection to the real world are its users, its staff, and its finances. We do have a policy, and we do have "politics", if you want to call it that, though this is something you are not involved with.
    While AF does have to follow governmental rules, the internet is not strictly bound to one nation, and thus not all the rules of every nation apply. Certain things, such as copyright infringment are to be followed, for example. But no one government's rules strictly dictates everything on the internet, not even yours.
    The United States provides "freedom of speech", but AF is not a part of the public sector. It is privately owned, and the owners can restrict users however they see fit. Freedom of speech does not encompass every aspect of socialization in the United States, though you seem keenly unaware of this.

    I'll say it again as I have said it many times. AnimeForum is not a democracy. In fact, I can't think of any website, forum, or chatroom that is. If you have a problem with that, stay off of the internet.

    "The color fades along the intervals I follow."

  18. #18
    4: [Classified brah] Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris's Avatar
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    Would it be possible to move the Sparkly-pringles discussion somewhere other than this thread? It's quite off topic, since Sparkly pickles' soapboxing is in no way related to the discussion.
    Last edited by Eris; 06-12-2009 at 05:59 PM.



    Hey look, Japan made a movie about me!

  19. #19
    Senior Member Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damn Skippy View Post
    Would it be possible to move the Sparkly-pringles discussion somewhere other than this thread? It's quite off topic, since Sparkly pickles' soapboxing is in no way related to the discussion.
    It does branch off from this discussion.
    The Modmins behavioral issues.
    Which they clearly show even now.


    @Memento: When I was having self confidence issues and self esteem issues back in 2006 when I joined. All hail the great admins they treated me so nicely and didn't even call me stupid, ignorant, or emo. :rollseyes:
    Last edited by Princely Dreaming Doll; 06-12-2009 at 06:04 PM.


    "There exist only three respectable beings: the priest, the warrior, the poet. To know, to kill, and to create."-Charles Baudelaire

  20. #20
    boopaloop! None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above has a reputation beyond repute None of the above's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkly Perriwinkle View Post
    AF may be a forum, but it still has relationships to the real world.
    AF has a policy and it has politics as well.
    AF still has to follow the laws of the government in the real world as the ones they created.
    Do you realise what kind of abominations you are spurting out?

    Do you have some pseudo forum parliament? NO.
    You must realise that the usage of AF is a service offered to you by the owners of the sites and that there is no correspondance to real life society or political structure. Please visit some special boards for such Role-Playing.

    I don't agree with your politics or policy and under my government laws and rules I have the right and the freedom to speak out.
    Same with a forum.
    You are wrongly referring to Ammendment no .1 (United States Bill of Rights which reads "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances") [no mention of other private actors].
    But since these sites are part of the private sector and are, as stated before, a free service delivered to you by the AF staff, there is no application of it.

    Yes, the mods would get mores respect if they respected their members back.
    Most mods are cruel, deceitful, and pretty much have an attitude issue.
    They let the power to get their heads.
    And I'm not going to respect an authority figure you like that.
    First off, when you joined this site you agreed to follow some rules. Accusing staff of plotting against any member is logically against these rules. Deal with it.

    This isn't a poem.
    This isn't some rhythmical thing.
    It's short sentences for you to understand.
    It's more like you have to reconsider the situation. You are not dealing with retards.

    edit: Noticed the new replies. Approving with Eris' last post.
    Last edited by None of the above; 06-12-2009 at 06:17 PM.

  21. #21
    4: [Classified brah] Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkly Perriwinkle View Post
    It does branch off from this discussion.
    The Modmins behavioral issues.
    Which they clearly show even now.
    Nonetheless, it's severely disrupting the original discussion. It would probably be better to make a separate thread for your discussion, or since it seems largely to be related to an individual moderator, a PM to that moderator.



    Hey look, Japan made a movie about me!

  22. #22
    Uniquely Unique... FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel has a reputation beyond repute FaeryTaleAngel's Avatar
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    A lot of people in this particular thread have made a lot of good points, all from both sides and prospectives.

    Okay, look. This website was not created for people to be miserable whilst being active on and throughout it. It was most likely created for the purpose of people whom supposedly (imagine this), like Anime, and like the atmosphere, not to mention the presence of the other members that are active here as well. To have fun. Or however it is that you like to pass/spend your time. AnimeForum, in my opinion (and this is my opinion alone, mind you), was not made to intentionally make you feel miserable nor to make you feel great! I believe it was a place that was formed for people around the world, whom enjoy others presence and/or company, not to mention the love of Anime, amongst many other things, to come together, and enjoy those things (god I hope that made some bloody sense). If you do feel miserable, save yourself the misery and just leave. I do not mean to sound cruel, nor harsh, but although there is some rebellion, not everyone feels that way, and all they really want to do is to be able to come here and relax. This is their place of solace, of amusement, of fun, and even more.

    Maru is trying her best right now, and I very well know how it feels to be a full-time student, amongst running things as she does. It is tough, and she is doing a great job doing things on her own. So please, give her some slack instead of calling her out on what you consider faults, and fallacies that are not even there. Again, I do not mean to sound harsh, but you really need to start looking at the situation(s) from all sides instead of continuously pointing your fingers at other people because you feel angry about something, or you do not know how to deal with an issue or a problem. It is so simple to just go about things in a nice manner, whether calm or not, and just ask a question without seeming offensive, or starting something that will rial people up. People whom do these things, whether they say they do or not, know what they are doing, and it makes things seem so childish. So please, just look at all sides of the coin, and although some members (such as myself), do have some problems, think of the ones that the moderators or administrators have to handle as well.

    We all go through a lot, and we all have to handle/deal with a lot. So how about we all just try not to piss each other off (and this is coming from an individual whom considers arguments and debating highly and quite amusing).

    (I am sorry about ranting, or sounding rude, and I deeply apologize for this, but I honestly feel like Maru was being attacked, and all she was doing was simply stating the way that she runs things and her own opinions. So if this comes across the wrong way, I apologize for it, but although members talk about the mods and admins "abusing" the members, or the "rights" of the members, they need to look at it from another prospective, because the members do it as well. We are all at fault, and the finger-pointing is a little less then congruent in pertinence to handling anything in a mature way. It is becoming inordinate.)

    I loathe quoting people for some reason, so I do not like doing what I am about to do, but here it goes all the same:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiery
    If you knew anything about what goes on behind the scenes, you'd know that we do much more than just complain about and make fun of our members. There are hours upon hours of work done on the sites (though I'll freely admit this is not my own doing. But I am around to see it). Issues/new ideas are discussed bi weekly. We love this place. If we didn't, we'd leave. We're not here to hate everyone. Personally, I love some of the people on this forum - admins/moderaters (modmins if that's what you want to call us) as well as regular members.

    Your need for luxury does not necessitate an emergency on our end. If you want luxury, make your own, or go somewhere else. This is not a democracy. This is a private enterprise. This is not a country, and you were not born of this forum, raised by this forum, nor released out into this world by the forum. You are here BY CHOICE, and by coming here you agree to the rules. (have you read them? great literature).

    If you have conerns, we will hear them - if they are delivered coherently with some measure of respect. You want respect? Respect us. I realize this is an issue, and I agree that it should be addressed. As a chat admin, I consider myself just a regular member when it comes to posting, and sometimes I wonder what the hell is going on in some of these threads when posts are deleted.

    You have the right to say what you want... if what you want to say follows the rules.

    I agree with this completely.

    Treat the moderators and administrators with respect, and they shall show you the same respect in return. If you have problems with something, then nicely ask about it or state your opinions (if outrages or more, even if less), through PMs or contact the individual in whom you want to say something to, personally. Starting things in the threads only causes for more problems, and it just makes things worse if you keep it going over, and over again, despite logical or illogical reasoning of any type. If you still have issues with things, and they do not seem to be going the way that you personally want, after trying in a manner that would be respectful to solve these problems/issues, then sadly, and unfortunately, you should just leave the website.

    Like Momento Mori stated, AnimeFroum is not the real world, and even so, it does have its own rules and regulations that you need to abide by. They are so much more lenient then you even realize. There are so many other websites that do not even give you this much freedom even if a part of their community. Although there are restrictions, and the rules are enforced, most of the time, people here can get away with a lot more then they even care to realize.

    Please just think about it a bit, and try to view things from other people's prospectives. In terms of pointing fingers, everybody is at fault (for the most part), and in terms of your "AnimeForum" freedom and AnimeForum rights", you have more then you even realize. AnimeForum is not that bad of a place to coincide, and a lot of people have come to enjoy it, regardless of its flaws.

    We all have our vices.

    We all have things that we need to work on.

    We are human.

    Just be respectful.

    You will be surprised at the differences ensued.

    P.S. I wanted to touch bases with the mods and admins not being around as much as well, but I am not sure what to say exactly other then just please give them some slack. They are trying their best.

    P.S.S. This probably hardly matters anyway. I utterly and completely write too bloody much and not many people even care to breach my words. Heh... If you do though, thank you for taking the time to do so.
    Last edited by FaeryTaleAngel; 06-12-2009 at 06:26 PM. Reason: Spelling errors, etcetera, and what not... Although that most likely will not matter since it is indeed, my bloody post. Ha-ha!


    “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle



  23. #23
    The Greekest Letter in the Alphabet. Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkly Perriwinkle View Post
    When my poems were fire bombed by modmins and members on the forum.
    Yeah cruel, modmination doesn't exist.
    Well, I dont go into poetry, so I wouldnt know about that. I spend most of my time is Misc or the RPG forums. As I said, I -personally- never saw it. I never said it didnt exist.

    As for respect, I will admit, I can and have been very snippy at other members. Kero can vouch for that. Its usually when Im in a bad mood, and I take it out on other members. Is it fair? No. But I do try to apologize for biting people's heads off. Im only human ^___^;;

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  24. #24
    //15 Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery has a reputation beyond repute Fiery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post
    Then why does this entire post sound like you consider yourself above us? I'm not saying you are or aren't, just wondering why you're being inconsistent.
    No problem, I think I can clear this up. The only reason I post in defense of this issue is because I know how the site functions. I've been around Minako and Kaitou in person enough to know what's discussed. I mean, I'm aware my post wasn't very friendly, but I was hoping that because I quoted Sparkly Perriwinkle's post, it would be known that my reply was directed toward him. I have absolutely no problem with this thread.

    What I meant when I said "I'm a chat admin, so I consider myself a regular member when posting..." was that my authority is limited to the chat room, and doesn't extend any further. So for all instensive purposes, I am a regular member on the forum. I don't moderate it, nor do I really have any input as to how each section is run. That is at the discretion of the forum moderators. I was trying to relate the fact that even though I'm an admin, sometimes I don't understand what is going on in the threads as much as anyone else. That's really all. My intention was really not to make myself sound above anyone, just to... sternly explain to one certain member who continues to harass moderators that this is how things are run.

    Though I'll fully admit I did troll his poetry. One poem flaming the moderators of AF, and the 5 minute post-poem trying to make peace.


    Some day, you'll dine on a solid snake.


  25. #25
    Nanobyte's minion SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD's Avatar
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    Wow for a second there I though there was going to be a coup d'etat here in AF. Lol

    So many valid points coming from the AF members; where do I start. Well I'll begin with this. First of all, some people are asking too much of the mods. As Eris (Damn Skippy) mentioned, editing posts does seem to be a great alternative to deleting altogether, but certain sections take longer. I know that misc gets more and more new threads each day, along with the ones that are still up. It seems unreasonable to ask of do what you asked if there is soo much spam and whatnot in the thread. And what I understand is that Mods/Admins have other things to worry about besides AF, so I think that's asking a bit too much.

    Now I agree with Diocletian's and Capernicus' point in adding more mods. It seems like there are some mods that are too busy to handle the forums, and others that try their hardest, yet still have to work more and more to keep the moderation to its best. I therefore agree that assigning more mods would be a fine choice in the matter.

    Now this is directly aimed at sparkly winkle tinkle: Everyone whose posted against your points is right. First off, AF is privately owned. You can't just expect mods to listen when certain members (usually newbies) complain about the closing of threads and whatnot. It sounds even more irritating to hear from others how your forum should be run. Imagine if you had your own site. Would you like to have someone on your back telling you constantly how to run something that belongs to you? I'm guessing the answer is no. Maybe if it was something that was a big issue, but judging from what you said and what Gjllarhorn mentioned, you are just upset with the rules in one section, when in fact it is those rules that help lower spam and other useless trash that might be posted.

    Kudos to FaeryTaleAngel for having a magnificent post with a lot of points in which I agree.
    Last edited by SigmaSD; 06-12-2009 at 09:51 PM.

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