Gay Marriage Legalized in Iowa

[Sagat]

Oh, look how disgusting it is, two people expressing their love for one another in such a beautiful way, it's absolutely criminal.

Now you're on the trolly!

[Shinn Kamiyra]

Just to pick nits, Marriage is a religious ceremony, not a human right. If any religion wants to withhold that ceremony from certain people they have that authority.

Having said that however, withholding civil rights and benefits based on a religious ceremony is completely, utterly stupid and for it to be one that excludes any competent adult of legal age is inexcusable.

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...ogId=480219183

True enough, hence why many gay couples wishing to be married go simply for state certification rather than encur the wrath of a church and/or religious group. Regardless, I have to wonder what, exactly it was, that set off this mindset in the first place. Sure, we hear all the time about how it's written in the Bible of how marriage between two people of the same sex is indecent, for lack of a more appropriate term; however, it raises the irrefutable truth that people must've had the same kind of attractions even back then. Really makes me curious as to when the whole thing must've started.

I like pictures.



Attached are some wedding pictures. I love the happiness in these photos. Don't feel uncomfortable at the slightest looking at these. They're beautiful.

Let 'em be happy, so I say.

[Standartenführer]

Marriage had nothing to do with religion until the Church wanted control over in like the 14th or 15th century, and although it is often overseen by religious officials, it does not, technically, have anything to do with religion. It is a pledge between two individuals that is recognized legally.

Also, you do realize that is The Onion, right? Not an actual news source?

I did not know that, thanks for the enlightenment.
Yes, I do realize the Onion is fake, just thought it might break the tension

Ya know Gja, I grew a little bit today. I grew by not blatantly ridiculing the person for using the fakest new source ever as evidence.


Unless that was meant to be...which I don't believe so...

It was indeed meant to be. Making assumptions can get you in trouble mister.

I was actually helping you, just by adding some extra voiceover commentary. I was just making sure that the person never does the same mistake again.

You never EVER forget your mistakes. Best part is mistakes are gratis.

I never realized it as a mistake, I do believe the mistake is on your part, good sir, for assuming I meant to use that article as a reference.

Now that that's out of the way.

Why do we care? Let them marry, it will not effect you in any way. Now, my gramma has lung cancer from smoking, go protest that. Better yet, go start a fundraiser for the cure to cancer. Or, world peace, maybe even go do something productive, like TAKE A WALK or something.

All I'm saying is we could be using our energy for something with a point

[[Spoiler]]

As more things are becoming acceptable, and the abnormal to normal, someday gender will be nothing but a word. You walk down the street and see a man and will be surprised to know he's 2 weeks pregnant. People will fall in love with objects, and even marry themselves. There will be no limits in life, as long as it doesn't physically hurt someone.

[OmegaAlpha]

Uhm, no he's not. If the 99% voted for whatever, but the 1% gets offended, and they do whatever the 1% voted for, than the 99% will be unhappy. Which ones the bigger part of the group/country/whatever?

You don't seem to understand so I will make it very simple for you:

You, and your opinions should not overpower the rights of others. (Even IF you have the majority) The overwhelming issue that you're failing to see is that your OPINION on morality should not be law for everyone else when it comes to civil rights.

Gays being allowed to get married would not effect your civil rights but banning them from getting married does effect their rights. You don't get hurt from it being legal, they DO get hurt from it being illegal. Get it?

If we took a vote during the height of slavery in the US, slavery would stand.
You don't put civil rights to a vote.

I'll admit My 99% examples were probably a bit obtuse for this situation
but the general idea should be simple enough.

Again, it will just be a matter of time until you'll have to deal with gay marriage in every state,
so I suggest you get used to it.

(I think we'll have to just agree to disagree and this will be my last post on this thread because I'm bored of the discussion.)

[Lola Granola]

Just to pick nits, Marriage is a religious ceremony, not a human right. If any religion wants to withhold that ceremony from certain people they have that authority.

I believe marriage, broadly, is a human right. I understand what you're trying to say but I don't think people care (about the religious aspect) as much as you think. I don't mean that in a mean way - maybe its because its difficult to translate the term marriage across cultures - I feel like marriage can be a spiritual embodiment that does not have to include religion. But then again what about religious gays who believe in God?

When I think of marriage I think of a lifetime commitment with the person I love. I don't care if God is involved or not. If it makes his parents happy and brings the family together, sure. But God doesn't have to be there.

Gay couples aside, obviously some straight couples don't have religious ceremonies defined by your standards of marriage. Marriage itself is a broad term, like love, that involves every culture under the sun - religion aside, it is expressed and carried out in various ways, just like its instigator. In technicality it might only relate to religion. In practice everyone uses the term to describe a celebration of a couple's life time together.

I'm pretty sure Chinese marriage has existed since like, 5000 BC. along with other cultural examples. If you want marriage to be exclusively between the couple and God you're going to have to come up with a different word/legal idea for every other culture along with gay couples.

[Eris]

Just to pick nits, Marriage is a religious ceremony, not a human right. If any religion wants to withhold that ceremony from certain people they have that authority.

That is actually quite true. No religion should be forced to perform rituals it doesn't want to perform. BUT! This isn't the case here (if it was, you could simply have the some dude with an ordainment from the Universal Life Church wed you*) The problem is that for some reason, a few religions have gotten the authority to dictate what ceremonies every other religion shall be allowed to perform.

* they ordain anyone who wants to become a minister, no strings attached.

[SigmaSD]

I just don't get why some people have a problem with gay marriage. If your straight, it doesn't affect you so why argue against it. This should be a debate that should be decided by gay people, not straight people.

To be honest I don't see why people care so much about marriage anyway. It's said that nearly half of married couples end up filing for divorce after a year or so after marriage. And studies have shown that people nowadays just live together and have kids, but they do not get married.

[Mmmmmmmmmm]

You don't seem to understand so I will make it very simple for you:

You, and your opinions should not overpower the rights of others. (Even IF you have the majority) The overwhelming issue that you're failing to see is that your OPINION on morality should not be law for everyone else when it comes to civil rights.

Gays being allowed to get married would not effect your civil rights but banning them from getting married does effect their rights. You don't get hurt from it being legal, they DO get hurt from it being illegal. Get it?

If we took a vote during the height of slavery in the US, slavery would stand.
You don't put civil rights to a vote.

I'll admit My 99% examples were probably a bit obtuse for this situation
but the general idea should be simple enough.

Again, it will just be a matter of time until you'll have to deal with gay marriage in every state,
so I suggest you get used to it.

(I think we'll have to just agree to disagree and this will be my last post on this thread because I'm bored of the discussion.)

I got it, but as you said, I was just commenting on the 99%.

I just don't get why some people have a problem with gay marriage. If your straight, it doesn't affect you so why argue against it. This should be a debate that should be decided by gay people, not straight people.

To be honest I don't see why people care so much about marriage anyway. It's said that nearly half of married couples end up filing for divorce after a year or so after marriage. And studies have shown that people nowadays just live together and have kids, but they do not get married.

Because marriage is "sacred".

[Cless Alvein]

I believe marriage, broadly, is a human right. I understand what you're trying to say but I don't think people care (about the religious aspect) as much as you think. I don't mean that in a mean way - maybe its because its difficult to translate the term marriage across cultures - I feel like marriage can be a spiritual embodiment that does not have to include religion. But then again what about religious gays who believe in God?

The religious aspect is the only argument that even holds up, albeit feebly, against SSM. What's the secular argument? "Ew, gross."? Some religious people are more open minded than others, but there are also gay couples who are religious and don't get married because they think it would be wrong.*

When I think of marriage I think of a lifetime commitment with the person I love. I don't care if God is involved or not. If it makes his parents happy and brings the family together, sure. But God doesn't have to be there.

This is why I'm sceptical about the overinflated image of marriage, myself. I can hold a lifelong commitment to someone I love without signing a contract declaring my intention to do so, thanks. The rest is just a party that comes later as far as I'm concerned.

Gay couples aside, obviously some straight couples don't have religious ceremonies defined by your standards of marriage. Marriage itself is a broad term, like love, that involves every culture under the sun - religion aside, it is expressed and carried out in various ways, just like its instigator. In technicality it might only relate to religion. In practice everyone uses the term to describe a celebration of a couple's life time together.

People have been asking gods/spirits to bless/protect their spiritual unions since the dawn of both concepts. That's why I characterize it that way. The amount of attention paid to that tradition waxes and wanes depending on the time and place, but secular unions are almost a modern afterthought in comparison.**

I'm pretty sure Chinese marriage has existed since like, 5000 BC. along with other cultural examples. If you want marriage to be exclusively between the couple and God you're going to have to come up with a different word/legal idea for every other culture along with gay couples.

I want any discriminatory, Church sanctioned ceremonies to be between the couple and their God. Government recognized unions that act as gatekeepers to civil rights and benefits shouldn't be able to discriminate.

I think that Lola and I agree in essence, but I enjoy comparing ideas on the role and influence of organized religion in this topic.

* Anecdotally. No link, sorry.

** http://www.pflagsanjose.org/advocacy/hist.html

[SigmaSD]

Because marriage is "sacred".

0_o I'll just take this comment as a non-sequitar.

[Heinekenrana]

In this morning's news: Maine's governor has signed a bill to legalize gay marriage.

[Señor Nobody]

In this morning's news: Maine's governor has signed a bill to legalize gay marriage.

Huzzah!

The movement is gaining momentum! I hope it spreads!

[Heinekenrana]

New Hampshire and Rhode Island are the only two states in New England that haven't passed it yet, and the legislature of New Hampshire is sending the bill to the governor very soon, if what I read is correct.

[Eris]

New Hampshire and Rhode Island are the only two states in New England that haven't passed it yet, and the legislature of New Hampshire is sending the bill to the governor very soon, if what I read is correct.

In the spirit of the New Hampshire state motto: Pass the bill or change your motto.

[Rem Nightfall]

Because marriage is "sacred".

As long as they aren't forcing you to marry a man, I still don't see a problem.

[Mmmmmmmmmm]

As long as they aren't forcing you to marry a man, I still don't see a problem.

I was commenting on all marriage. Not gay marriage. And marriage use to actually be sacred, not getting married, getting divorced. I know people who are still traditional. They are married but hate each other. They don't talk to each other or nothing; but still live in the same house. They divide everything into halves. It's ridiculous in my opinion.

[Tetsanosuke]

I was commenting on all marriage. Not gay marriage. And marriage use to actually be sacred, not getting married, getting divorced. I know people who are still traditional. They are married but hate each other. They don't talk to each other or nothing; but still live in the same house. They divide everything into halves. It's ridiculous in my opinion.

Makes you wonder why they got married in the first place. =o

[Rem Nightfall]

I was commenting on all marriage. Not gay marriage. And marriage use to actually be sacred, not getting married, getting divorced. I know people who are still traditional. They are married but hate each other. They don't talk to each other or nothing; but still live in the same house. They divide everything into halves. It's ridiculous in my opinion.

Marriage can be a troublesome thing. Most people who get married are the ones who cannot or haven't fully committed to a relationship. To many people think, it's oh I love them...let's get married. No it isn't that. It something much much much more then that. There is more then, I love him so much let's get married.

[Mmmmmmmmmm]

Marriage can be a troublesome thing. Most people who get married are the ones who cannot or haven't fully committed to a relationship. To many people think, it's oh I love them...let's get married. No it isn't that. It something much much much more then that. There is more then, I love him so much let's get married.

This is why people should wait beyond the age of late teens and early twenties to get married instead of jumping the gun and only being married for a year or two.

[Rem Nightfall]

This is why people should wait beyond the age of late teens and early twenties to get married instead of jumping the gun and only being married for a year or two.

No. People should wait till they are fully committed to a relationship and believe they are ready. Not because the world says you have to get married and have a kid. But because you both are responsible emotionally, and physically enough to marry. And where you both know you have committed to your fullest.

[Mmmmmmmmmm]

No. People should wait till they are fully committed to a relationship and believe they are ready. Not because the world says you have to get married and have a kid. But because you both are responsible emotionally, and physically enough to marry. And where you both know you have committed to your fullest.

People have different opinions of a full commitment, and some don't even care.

[Capernicus]

Hurray for Maine! *confetti*

[Memento Mori]

Hurray for Maine! *confetti*

How many more states to go, Cap?

[Capernicus]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_197850.html

http://www.examiner.com/x-4106-Calif...d-by-lawmakers

45 =D I'm excited for this summer. Governor Baldacci is a smart man imo.