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Thread: *SPOILERS* Did Euphie Escape...

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    are you saying that I should not hate Allelujah or think he is evil? Maybe not. He is sort of an analogy to possessed Eupheia, after all. But I think that he should have thought twice, three times, four times, and many more times before joining a paramilitary organization if he knew that he had Hallelujah's personality inside waiting to take over at the worst possible moments. Celestrial Being must be very short of good gundam pilots if they think they have to keep Allelujah despite th danger of Hallelujah.
    Assuming that is what happened...which it didn't. Again, its best if you ask a question for confirmation, then continue with your hypothesis, rather than present it as fact.

    Allelujah joined Celestial Being after coming to terms with the fact that he was a super soldier. While Hallelujah is a murderous personality based solely on instinct, when they are working together, its basically two brains working together in one person (Allelujah's planning with Hallelujah's instincts), which makes them a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield.

    Also, Allelujah joined with the side mission of preventing people like him from existing, so destroying the HRL lab was something that he had been planning for a while. He just hesitated at the last minute when thought about rescuing the kids, which caused Hallelujah to step in.

    Of course,
     
    Allelujah suffered a brain injury that damaged the quantum brain waves in his head, causing the "death" of Hallelujah
    .
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  2. #202
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Assuming that is what happened...which it didn't. Again, its best if you ask a question for confirmation, then continue with your hypothesis, rather than present it as fact.

    Allelujah joined Celestial Being after coming to terms with the fact that he was a super soldier. While Hallelujah is a murderous personality based solely on instinct, when they are working together, its basically two brains working together in one person (Allelujah's planning with Hallelujah's instincts), which makes them a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield.

    Also, Allelujah joined with the side mission of preventing people like him from existing, so destroying the HRL lab was something that he had been planning for a while. He just hesitated at the last minute when thought about rescuing the kids, which caused Hallelujah to step in.

    Of course,
     
    Allelujah suffered a brain injury that damaged the quantum brain waves in his head, causing the "death" of Hallelujah
    .
    You say that Allelujah hesitated at the last minute when he thought about rescuing the kids and Hallelujah got involved. This is about when I tuned into the episode, at the debate beween A & H.

    Anyway, your statement implies that the original plan was to destroy the lab with everyone in it, including the child victims. If so, that was an evil plan.

    Why couldn't Allelujah have broken in every window of the building and seen who was in every room and given them warning shots from a machine gun if he had a machine gun attachment, warning them to get out of the building as fast as possible? He could have started at the top and worked his way down, using his loud speaker to warn everyone to get out as soon as possible since he was about to blow up the building.

    It seems to me that he could have evacuated the builidng in a few minutes (and twice as fast if there were two Gundams on the mission) and herded everyone safely away from the building, and blown it up. He could have separated the adults from the children, machine gunned the more evil-looking adults, and ordered the rest to take the children to safety or die.

    Soon after the building was blown up an evil-looking scientist was arrest fro taking part in unlawful experiments, Presumably he was the director of the super soldier project. It was way to soon for investigators to examine the wreckage and find evidence of illegal activity and evidence that a specific person was the mad scientist in charge.

    So he must have been arrested because of information that Celestrial Being had supplied, information that was credible enough for someone to be arrested. If so, Celestrial Being should have had evidence that was credible enough to expose and shut down the super soldier project. And of course if any more evidence was needed, it would be a lot more likely to come from the testimony of living experimenters and subjects drivien from the labe before it was destroyed instead of from their dead bodies.

    Anyway, what good does it do to blow up one lab full of experimenters and subjects? Wouldn't the experimenters have to give superior authorities in some other location reports on their activities detailing their methods? And if the project was a success, wouldn't it be expanded to include other locations?

    It seems to me that the best way to destroy the super soldier program would be a gundam secret mission to kidnap the leaders of the nation responsible and torture them on television until they ordered that the super soldier program and all other programs Celestrial Being considered evil to be abolished and ended. And they would continue to be tortured periodically until Celestrial Being had proof that those programs had been ended.

    Then they could continue to rule their nation long distance from where they were held by Celestrial Being, with the warning that every time they gave an order Celestrial Being considered evil they would be tortured until it was countermanded.

    Anyway, it seems to me that if Celestrial Being approved a mission that was highly likely or certain to result in the deaths of many innocent children, then all the members of Celestrial Being are evil.

    And of course in the real world there are many teenagers and children who volunteer or are kidnapped to become trained as warriors in Asia, Africa, and Latin America. There are many less science fictional and more traditional programs to turn kids into less extreme versions of super soldiers.

    So every member of the US military should chose now what they are going to do if they ever discover a campground or compound where children are being trained to be guerrillas or terrorists or rebels. Will he take the easy but evil route and call in an air strike or artillery fire to wipe out everyone, or should he find another way to defeat the enemy which will increase the probability of survival for the children?

    Actually the Pentagon should decree that in such a situation every US soldier must find a different way, a way that greatly increases the probability that the children will survive, while at the same time decreeing that the adult trainers and leaders of child warriors should always be summarily executed, and the political leaders who approve the use of child warriors are guilty of murder and must be executed upon conviction of using child warriors.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 10-28-2009 at 11:36 PM.

  3. #203
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    and we're at the what if's again

  4. #204
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Anyway, your statement implies that the original plan was to destroy the lab with everyone in it, including the child victims. If so, that was an evil plan.

    Why couldn't Allelujah have broken in every window of the building and seen who was in every room and given them warning shots from a machine gun if he had a machine gun attachment, warning them to get out of the building as fast as possible? He could have started at the top and worked his way down, using his loud speaker to warn everyone to get out as soon as possible since he was about to blow up the building.

    It seems to me that he could have evacuated the builidng in a few minutes (and twice as fast if there were two Gundams on the mission) and herded everyone safely away from the building, and blown it up. He could have separated the adults from the children, machine gunned the more evil-looking adults, and ordered the rest to take the children to safety or die.
    Did you read what I posted? I said that the original plan was to DESTROY the lab. Its rather pointless to offer alternatives to a plan that never existed in the first place. It was only when Allelujah finally got to the lab that he hesitated, deciding that he should try and save the children instead. However, the hesitation caused Hallelujah to step in.

    Could Allelujah have thought up of all those ways to save the children? Yes, he could have. However, the simple hesitation was enough to trigger Hallelujah's appearance, causing the destruction of the lab anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    So he must have been arrested because of information that Celestrial Being had supplied, information that was credible enough for someone to be arrested. If so, Celestrial Being should have had evidence that was credible enough to expose and shut down the super soldier project. And of course if any more evidence was needed, it would be a lot more likely to come from the testimony of living experimenters and subjects drivien from the labe before it was destroyed instead of from their dead bodies.

    Anyway, what good does it do to blow up one lab full of experimenters and subjects? Wouldn't the experimenters have to give superior authorities in some other location reports on their activities detailing their methods? And if the project was a success, wouldn't it be expanded to include other locations?
    AGAIN, you are making assumptions of something you don't really know and are running with them as fact. Again, it would have been better for you to ask about it and make a hypothesis based on that rather than make something up.

    The super soldier program ended the moment the facility was destroyed. The public found out about it during the investigation of the building. The HRL military was already well aware of the super soldier program (they were using them...duh), so there were no suprises on that front.

    The scientist you saw get arrested was arrested because he found a connection between Allelujah (known as E-0057) and Soma Peries, another super soldier, but never told anyone. Every time the two met on the battlefield, Soma would have a reaction to Allelujah's quantum brainwaves. Lieutenant Colonal Sergei Smirnov (Soma's commander) previously asked the scientist if there was a reason why this happened. The scientist knew the reason, but never told Sergei.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Anyway, it seems to me that if Celestrial Being approved a mission that was highly likely or certain to result in the deaths of many innocent children, then all the members of Celestrial Being are evil.
    Well, this is Bandai, so it is not so black-and-white. In fact, just like the actions of the Black Knights in Code Geass, the actions of Celestial Being cause a conundrum: If peace is obtained through violent means, then is it truly peace? Is it even worth it? The actions of Celestial Being have caused the amount of battles to go down, but if it was caused by violent actions, is that peace a good thing? Its one of those complex conundrums (ones that you have proven to not be able to understand).

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    So every member of the US military should chose now what they are going to do if they ever discover a campground or compound where children are being trained to be guerrillas or terrorists or rebels. Will he take the easy but evil route and call in an air strike or artillery fire to wipe out everyone, or should he find another way to defeat the enemy which will increase the probability of survival for the children?
    Or I could take the route that I am trained to take: to report to my commander for further orders. "Call in an air strike"? Yeah, this is real-life, not video games. Lay off the Call of Duty.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 10-31-2009 at 07:04 PM.
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    The Point Is: Why are we talking about Gundam 00 in a Code Geass thread??

    Besides, if you factor in Gundam, its point is to make lots of stuff explode with a big 'Boom' (Boomz, if you prefer) and impact, so as to wipe everyone there out and cause Mass Destruction, simply.


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    Quote Originally Posted by xRiikox View Post
    The Point Is: Why are we talking about Gundam 00 in a Code Geass thread??

    Besides, if you factor in Gundam, its point is to make lots of stuff explode with a big 'Boom' (Boomz, if you prefer) and impact, so as to wipe everyone there out and cause Mass Destruction, simply.
    Gundam and Code Geass are made by the same guys and share many similarity.

    Also gundam isnt all about explosions and killing everyone

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    Quote Originally Posted by xRiikox View Post
    The Point Is: Why are we talking about Gundam 00 in a Code Geass thread??

    Besides, if you factor in Gundam, its point is to make lots of stuff explode with a big 'Boom' (Boomz, if you prefer) and impact, so as to wipe everyone there out and cause Mass Destruction, simply.
    Gundam was the first realistic mecha genre anime involving in depth character development, ethics, tragedies of war, maybe some philosophy and politics on the way.

    Basically the forefather of a lot of topics handled in Code Geass (which is part of a genre that Gundam founded) from political struggles to Lelouch wearing a mask. There are certain Gundam series that do make a lot of things go "boom" or rise power levels over nine thousand or complete nonsensicalness, but please don't throw the whole Gundam metaverse along with that.
    Last edited by B Gundam; 11-01-2009 at 11:24 AM.
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  8. #208
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    Personally, I do not think Euphemia escaped the Geass until AFTER Lelouch shot her. The second after the bullet hit her, she realized what was going on. This is when she escaped the Geass, but not completely as it still somewhat effected her on her death bed.

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  9. #209
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Did you read what I posted? I said that the original plan was to DESTROY the lab. Its rather pointless to offer alternatives to a plan that never existed in the first place. It was only when Allelujah finally got to the lab that he hesitated, deciding that he should try and save the children instead. However, the hesitation caused Hallelujah to step in.

    Could Allelujah have thought up of all those ways to save the children? Yes, he could have. However, the simple hesitation was enough to trigger Hallelujah's appearance, causing the destruction of the lab anyway.
    Thank you for filling me in about about plot elements that I missed.

    So you seem to be saying that the original plan was to destroy the lab. Unless Allelujah and the rest of Celestrial being thought the lab was temporarily empty due to an intermission since the last class was "graduated" and before a new class was assembled, the plan to destroy the lab was what I would call evil.

    Doesn't Celestrial Being employ any old fashioned infantry? If they had any they could fly some in with a Gundam as an escort, send the infantry to defeat any guards, take everyone else prisoners back n the infantry's ship, and the gundam could blow up the lab.

    And if Celestrial Being doesn't have any infantry of its own it might be able borrow some from a friendly nation it has helped. Or even swoop down on an isolated enemy unit, threaten them with instant death unless they surrender, take a few as hostages, and send the rest to capture the lab and liberate the children and release them when they are done.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Well, this is Bandai, so it is not so black-and-white. In fact, just like the actions of the Black Knights in Code Geass, the actions of Celestial Being cause a conundrum: If peace is obtained through violent means, then is it truly peace? Is it even worth it? The actions of Celestial Being have caused the amount of battles to go down, but if it was caused by violent actions, is that peace a good thing? Its one of those complex conundrums (ones that you have proven to not be able to understand).

    I don't see the complex conundrum.

    If everyone in the world was a good as Euphemia, if every military commander was as careful as she about reducing collateral damage and reducing the amount of killing as much as possible. then war would be an okay thing. So long as as the death and suffering was restricted to adults who had volunteered to serve and risk their lives then fine by me. But since there is no way to guarantee that all warriors would take a lot of care not to harm noncombatents in the future, war must be abolished.

    The world must have peace -- eternal peace if possible. So I have no problem with peace obtained though violence. But I have a big problem with anyone who seeks peace or any other goal he thinks is worthwhile who thinks that because he (thinks that he) will do a great deal of good it is right for him to do any amount of evil to achieve that good, so long as the evil is less the good he hopes to achieve.

    Suppose that in alternate universe one Person A1 never tries to unify the world and countless trillions of persons are killed in wars in the next billion years.

    His alternate self Person A2 in alternate universe two who conquers the world killing five billion people but saving trillions of lives in the next billion years would make a better choice than A1.

    His alternate self Person A3 in alternate universe three who unites the world by peaceful negotiation but has to kill one billion rebels and saves trillions of lives in the next billion years would be better than Person A2.

    His alternate self Person A4 in alternate universe four who conquers and unites the world killing only fifty million people and saving trillions of lives in the next billion years would be better than Person A3.

    His alternate self Person A5 in alternate universe five who unites the world by peaceful negotiation but has to kill one million rebels and saves trillions of lives in the next billion years would be better than Person A4.

    And so on. Best of all would be Person A482,385,468 in alternate universe 482,385,468 who unites the world and saves trillions of lives in the next billion years without killing a single person.

    Since it is obviously unwise to send someone emotionally involved on a mission the leaders of Infernal Being - I mean Celestrial Being -- should not have sent Allelujah on the mission. And if no other Gundam master except Allelujah could be induced to go then obviously destroying the lab which produced super soldiers did not seem like a high priority to anyone except Allelujah. And if so it was clearly not something worth killing even one child for.

    If one of the plans I suggested had been adopted and if Allelujah had not been sent on the mission and Hallelujah had not taken over, the lab would have been destroyed and the children rescued (and they could have testified about the super soldier program and given Celestrial Being good publicity).

    Celestrial Being could have easily destroyed the lab and saved the children. Thus destroying the lab and killing the children reveals that they don't care much about how many people - even children - they kill in their operations.

    At the end of the episode there was a conversation in which someone described Celestrial Being as the most feared terrorist organization in the world. Since the show was produced after 09/11/2001 for a Japanese and international audience including Americans, I would think that the original writers and the translators should have been very precise and not used the word terrorist unless it was fairly accurate. There seems no business sense in calling your protagonists terrorists unless they are actually terrorists.

    It is scientifically possible for a terrorist organization to do more good than evil and maybe even save the world from some danger, but the odds of that happening are very slight. Very, very, very, very, very slight. I believe that all terrorist organizations are so inherently evil that only one out of countless millions of terrorist organizations will ever do more good than harm. Thus nobody should ever make a story in which a terrorist organization does more good than harm, let alone saves the world, until there have been millions of stories in which terrorist organizations do more evil than good.

    Terrorists or not, Celestrial Being seems too evil to be worthy protagonists of a story. And the same goes for the Black Knights and the Britannians (except for Euphemia) in Code Geass.

    I can picture a war story in which all the major characters are as good as Euphemia. And in which one or more of those characters eventually decides that he, she, or it has been fighting on the wrong side and switches sides. And this character may feel horribly guilty about all the people he, she. or it has killed while fighting for a side which he, she, or it now believes is the wrong side in the conflict.

    But at least that character can take comfort in knowing that he, she, or it has always tried to prevent the deaths of noncombatants and win with as little killing as possible, and thus has much less blood on his, her, or its hands (or tentacles) than someone who fought without trying to reduce the deaths to a minimum.

    If even a character as good and innocent as Euphemia might happen to be a member of the wrong side and thus do more harm than good, someone who is as ruthless as Celestrial being, or their opponents, or the Black Knights and the Britannians is only likely to do more good than evil by sheer accident. I see no point in making a story about evil people who by some utterly unlikely chance happen to be fighting for the right cause and thus happen accidentally to save the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Or I could take the route that I am trained to take: to report to my commander for further orders. "Call in an air strike"? Yeah, this is real-life, not video games. Lay off the Call of Duty.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 12-18-2009 at 09:59 PM.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by xRiikox View Post
    The Point Is: Why are we talking about Gundam 00 in a Code Geass thread??

    Besides, if you factor in Gundam, its point is to make lots of stuff explode with a big 'Boom' (Boomz, if you prefer) and impact, so as to wipe everyone there out and cause Mass Destruction, simply.
    Because in a previous post someone recommended it to me as a series in which nobody gets killed and I happened to have seen one of the episodes in which one of the protagonists blew up a lab full of children.

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    All Right, sorry, and I admit my mistake. Gundam 00 does actually have many characters with depth, and it is also one of my favourite series. Just that I was pissed of at the time I posted it.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Because in a previous post someone recommended it to me as a series in which nobody gets killed and I happened to have seen one of the episodes in which one of the protagonists blew up a lab full of children.
    -Then the person who recommended you the series was wrong.


    いつからかの思い出

  12. #212
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    Doesn't Celestrial Being employ any old fashioned infantry? If they had any they could fly some in with a Gundam as an escort, send the infantry to defeat any guards, take everyone else prisoners back n the infantry's ship, and the gundam could blow up the lab.

    And if Celestrial Being doesn't have any infantry of its own it might be able borrow some from a friendly nation it has helped. Or even swoop down on an isolated enemy unit, threaten them with instant death unless they surrender, take a few as hostages, and send the rest to capture the lab and liberate the children and release them when they are done.
    I am astonished you haven't achieved World domination yet with the plans you can always come up with. I never though infantry was so easy to come by. I guess Celestial Being should have blackmailed the World into Peace and it somehow magically works. What are you waiting for? Go do it, achieve World Peace, we'd all like that, or most people at least.

    And while you're at it go come up with other plans like "why don't we just clone Kira Yamato a billyun tiems and make him win all wars without killing pplz?".

    And so on. Best of all would be Person A482,385,468 in alternate universe 482,385,468 who unites the world and saves trillions of lives in the next billion years without killing a single person.
    Lets not forget that for every A you count actually saving more than they kill, there are tenfold more As causing more damage than they prevent if they'd had not tried such a ridiculous plan in the first place with the same ideas, hundredfold more As simply failing or dying and achieving nothing and thousandfold more As who didn't even try in the first place.
    Last edited by B Gundam; 11-02-2009 at 09:29 AM.
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    Lets not forget that for every A you count actually saving more than they kill, there are tenfold more As causing more damage than they prevent if they'd had not tried such a ridiculous plan in the first place with the same ideas, hundredfold more As simply failing or dying and achieving nothing and thousandfold more As who didn't even try in the first place.
    LMAO!
    Aw, the wonderful sound of AF.

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    I can't think of any that come to mind at the moment, but my default response to a personal attack is "Your dog has hepatitas". It doesn't work all the time, but hoo-boy when it does, it works wonders.

  14. #214
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    I am responding to post # 150

    Quote Originally Posted by +Namiko+ View Post
    Quote: "And how can killing Euphemia add to the drama? "
    Are you blind? Wait stupid question, why else would you have started this thread.

    Ummm...

    last time I checked, someone Dying adds to drama, which is kind of why all those people in Dramas, you know, DIE!?
    Killing Euphemia did not add to the drama, it added to the cheap melodrama. If Lelouch was in a situation where Killing Euphemia and not killing her would both lead to evil results he could have chosen to kill her from some well motivated, dramatic reason. But Lelouch was in a situation were capturing Euphemia was clearly far superior to killing her and killed her anyway for no apparent reason. That is melodrama, not well written drama.

    Quote Originally Posted by +Namiko+ View Post
    The point I am making, again and again and again, is that YOU dont seem to be able to handle it. You are obviously either way to young or way to immature to handle it. So go watch Kim Possible where no one dies and have fun.
    These days even the protagonists of Disney shows sometimes turn out to be evil. See, for example, the "Franken Girl" and "Three Monsters" episodes of Wizards of Waverly Place.

    Quote Originally Posted by +Namiko+ View Post
    Quote: "If you like his response to my post you should read my post number 144 in which I respond to it."

    and if that was some attempt to be smart with me, dont, you WILL lose.
    I was just saying that I refuted his post in my post # 144.


    Quote Originally Posted by +Namiko+ View Post
    You seem to be completely unaware that you sound like a five year old with a dictionary who just watched peter cottontail get shot.


    Anime characters are pawns to the producers of the show. Code geass was made to get money. The DEATH of a nice character made it more interesting and the twist was so unexpected that it made people wonder "what will happen next?"
    The death of Euphemia made me lose all interest in what happened next. I was not interested in finding out what happened to the various evil characters on the show after that. Euphemia had more goodness than all the other characters put together, so what happened to her was more important than the fates of all the other characters put together. So what is the point of watching to find out which minor plot twists will happen in the second season, when the plot twist which has already happened is more important than all the others put together? Apparently the producers of Code Geass believed that it was impossible to underestimate the ethical standards of anime fans.


    Quote Originally Posted by +Namiko+ View Post
    And yes, lelouch did suffer.
    He lost his mother,
    his fahter didnt want him and treated him like a political tool,
    hie BEST friend became his enemy
    his was forced to kill his sister and brother
    his father took nunally away
    he was left alone near the end of the series
    He was lead to believe that Nunnaly was, dead, which tore him apart.
    He discovered that his mother was actually a psycho that really didnt care much for him anyway
    His sister hated him despite the fact that every thing he had done was for her

    dont you TELL me that he didn't suffer as much as ANYONE on that show. no one even came close.
    Was Euphemia's mother ever mentioned? It is possible that she died or something and that Cornelia raised Euphemia for several years. And she lost Marianne, who was a friend to her and possibly like a mother to her.
    Euphemia's fahter didnt want her and treated her like a political tool.
    Her long-lost brother treacherously murdered her.
    She was forced to go into battle at Narita to make sure that Cornelia did not massacre the JLF and/or the Narita towns people.
    her father sent nunally away
    She often felt alone when she saw how everybody was willing to do evil things.
    She was lead to believe that Nunnaly and Lelouch were dead, which tore her apart for seven years - much longer than Lelouch believed that Nunnally was dead.
    She discovered that her brother was actually a psycho that really didnt care much for her anyway
    The Japanese hated her despite the fact the her last words were hopes for their happiness.

    Here is just one character, Euphemia, who seems to have suffered about as much as Lelouch did. But it took a geass command to make a mass murderer out of her. As long as she had control of herself, she didn't let her suffering turn her vengeful - unlike Lelouch.

    If you can watch Lelouch order the geass directorate massacre of his own free will and still be shocked by his death, how can you watch Euphemia struggle desperately against a geass command before ordering a massacre and not be even more shocked by her death than by Lelouch's?

    I am certain that many of the countless millions of unnamed extras in Code Geass had much more tragic lives with much more suffering than Lelouch did. Many persons whose fathers abandoned their mothers before they were born, whose mothers died in childbirth or abandoned them to orphanages when they were born or who neglected them terribly. They were passed from foster family to foster family or largely ignored in orphanages Finally they found loving families to adopt them, but just as they were settling in their new families were viciously murdered by crazed cultists or slaughtered in a Britannian invasion or the Black Rebellion or killed in an earthquake or other natural disaster and they found their way back to orphanages.

    Then new families found them and they overcome their fears that they would jinx the new family and found brief happiness before their new homes in Tokyo or Pendragon were destroyed by F.R.E.I.J.A. They were instantly vaporized or their shattered bodies were pinned under rubble and their struggles could not get them free as the raging fires came closer and closer and___or they survived the bombing and wandered around in a daze until radiation sickness killed them.

    I read that tens of millions were killed in Tokyo and Pendragon. So many of the victims must have had such tragic lives before being killed at the age of fourteen, or twelve, or ten, or younger.

    Quote Originally Posted by +Namiko+ View Post
    You fail as an anime fan.
    I am not an anime fan. I have watched a bunch of animes and thought that many of them were interesting and enjoyable. I don't want to be anime fan if I have to give up all my ethical standards to succeed as one.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 12-18-2009 at 10:35 PM.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    I am astonished you haven't achieved World domination yet with the plans you can always come up with. I never though infantry was so easy to come by. I guess Celestial Being should have blackmailed the World into Peace and it somehow magically works. What are you waiting for? Go do it, achieve World Peace, we'd all like that, or most people at least.

    And while you're at it go come up with other plans like "why don't we just clone Kira Yamato a billyun tiems and make him win all wars without killing pplz?".
    What a wonderful idea! After conquering the world I will be sure to identify you and have you honored as the one who inspired me to overthrow all the tyrannies that were constantly slaughtering people in their struggles against one another and replacing them with a world-wide tyranny which will be peaceful because there won't be any other governments to fight against. So what do you think a fair reward show be? Should I make you a duke, a king, a king of kings, a king of kings of kings, or do you want one of the higher titles?

    Just kidding. World conquest has already been my plan for some time now.


    Quote Originally Posted by B Gundam View Post
    Lets not forget that for every A you count actually saving more than they kill, there are tenfold more As causing more damage than they prevent if they'd had not tried such a ridiculous plan in the first place with the same ideas, hundredfold more As simply failing or dying and achieving nothing and thousandfold more As who didn't even try in the first place.
    Yes, attempts to end war by unifying the world through conquest and/or negotiation can fail. Therefore it is always better to pursue those plans with the minimum of bloodshed so if they fail at least the minimum of lives will have been wasted.

    But not trying to unify the world by conquest and/or by peaceful negotiation but just hoping that somehow people in large groups will stop behaving as violently as they did in the past does not seem very sensible to me.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 12-17-2009 at 11:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotomi Ichinose View Post
    Personally, I do not think Euphemia escaped the Geass until AFTER Lelouch shot her. The second after the bullet hit her, she realized what was going on. This is when she escaped the Geass, but not completely as it still somewhat effected her on her death bed.

    she only escaped from it once she passed away

  17. #217
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    I just started watching Gundam 00, so no comment on that.





    Was Euphemia's mother ever mentioned? It is possible that she died or something and that Cornelia raised Euphemia for several years. And she lost Marianne, who was a friend to her and possibly like a mother to her.
    Euphemia's fahter didnt want her and treated her like a political tool.
    Her long-lost brother treacherously murdered her.
    She was forced to go into battle at Narita to make sure that Cornelia did not massacre the JLF and/or the Narita towns people.
    her father sent nunally away
    She often felt alone when she saw how everybody was willing to do evil things.
    She was lead to believe that Nunnaly and Lelouch were dead, which tore her apart for seven years - much longer than Lelouch believed that Nunnally was dead.
    She discovered that her brother was actually a psycho that really didnt care much for her anyway
    The Japanese hated her despite the fact the her last words were hopes for their happiness.

    Here is just one character, Euphemia, who seems to have suffered about as much as Lelouch did. But it took a geass command to make a mass murderer out of her. As long as she had control of herself, she didn't let her suffering turn her vengeful - unlike Lelouch.
    1. NO ONE CARES ABOUT EUPHY'S MOTHER!
    2. Marianne was not her friend. She merely had her plate on her wall.
    3. Charles was never shown treating her poorly.
    4. MURDER MURDER MURDER MURDER! Jesus! You love that word. He didn't MURDER her, he defeated her in battle. Don't say, "It wasn't a battle." It was.
    5. Oh, "forced to go to Narita." What about how Lelouch had to see all the Japanese people killed mercilessly when he was only ten years old.
    6. What the hell does "her father sent Nunnally away." mean?
    7. She felt useless, because she wasn't smart. That's all.
    8. She was totally over Lelouch and Nunnally.
    9. He LOVED her! Are you ****ing blind?
    10. She didn't see that they hated her because she was in heaven by that point.

    You proved nothing besides that she was a whiny little emo girl. Euphy had no clue what suffering was. She never was abandon. She never was punished. She never lost anything. Lelouch loses his mother, his home, his dear sister(euphy who he loved VERY MUCH), his girlfriend, his brother, and his life. He dies hated by the world he sacrificed himself to save.
    I doubt there are any anime characters who suffered as much as him, and are still strong enough to cope with it. I can name two Shin Kanzato and Edward Elric. That's it.
    I'm sick of you spamming the CG boards. Either move on or shut up before someone reports you.
    Last edited by Rolo Vi Britannia; 12-10-2009 at 01:17 PM.


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  18. #218
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    not yet completed 12/11/09. Still uncompleted 1230 am Saturday 12/12/09. Still uncompleted Monday morning. still uncompleted Weds. 12/16/09 still unfinished 12/17/09. finally completed 12/20/09 1222 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post


    I just started watching Gundam 00, so no comment on that.







    quote=Rolo Vi Britannia;2359661]
    1. NO ONE CARES ABOUT EUPHY'S MOTHER!
    2. Marianne was not her friend. She merely had her plate on her wall.
    3. Charles was never shown treating her poorly.
    4. MURDER MURDER MURDER MURDER! Jesus! You love that word. He didn't MURDER her, he defeated her in battle. Don't say, "It wasn't a battle." It was.
    5. Oh, "forced to go to Narita." What about how Lelouch had to see all the Japanese people killed mercilessly when he was only ten years old.
    6. What the hell does "her father sent Nunnally away." mean?
    7. She felt useless, because she wasn't smart. That's all.
    8. She was totally over Lelouch and Nunnally.
    9. He LOVED her! Are you ****ing blind?
    10. She didn't see that they hated her because she was in heaven by that point.
    You are responding to points from my post # 214 which were responding to points that +Namiko+ made in her post # 150. Thus each of my points is phrased to refute one of Namiko's points.

    1. You say that NO ONE CARES ABOUT EUPHY'S MOTHER!. Perhaps no Code Geass fans care about her. But you can be certain that Cornelia and Euphemia cared abut her. And if she is dead by the time of Code Geass you can be certain that her death was just as traumatic for Euphemia as Marianne's death was for Lelouch.

    2. you say that Marianne was not Euphemia's friend. But Euphemia had fond memories of watching the stars with Lelouch, Nunnaly, and Marianne. It seems to me that children who enjoy doing things with their playmates and their playmates's parents think of their playmates's parents as their friends, and are saddened by the deaths of those friends, however those friends actually feel about them.
    What does the expression about having her plate on the wall mean? And who is supposed to have had whose plate on the wall?

    3. You say that Charles was never seen treating Euphie poorly. I don't think that Charles was ever seen interacting with Euphemia. Many people have said that Charles had no feelings of love for any of his children. You can be certain that the vast majority of children suffer if either of their parents has no love for them. And when the massacre started in episode 22 Charles saw and laughed "He did it! He geassed her!" with amusement. That shows how little concern he had with her well-being, and she is likely to have sensed that over the years.

    4. You say:MURDER MURDER MURDER MURDER! Jesus! You love that word. He didn't MURDER her, he defeated her in battle. Don't say, "It wasn't a battle." It was.

    I started to respond to this and decided to start a new post, # 63 on page 3 of my thread Euphemia's Murder, in which I point out examples of people murdered in battle. It would be too long to include them as part of this post.
    continued 12/16/09

    5. This was phrased the way it was because it was a response to a point of +Namiko+'s and thus may be a little weak compared to various things that Lelouch and other characters went though. But remember all the children at Narita who did not see a terrible slaughter because the Britannians did not massacre anybody there. And the reason why they did not slaughter and massacre was probably because Euphemia forced herself to go to witness what was done at Narita and forced herself to be stubborn and insist on going when Cornelia opposed her going.

    6. +Namiko+ wrote that "His father sent Nunnally Away", presumably meaning during the period between the two seasons. So I responded to that point by writing that "Her (Euphie's) father sent Nunnally away" meaning that he sent Euphemia's playmates Nunnally and Lelouch to Japan as hostages where they were soon reported killed, when Euphie was only nine. Does that explain the difficult puzzle of what "her father sent Nunnally away." means?

    7. Euphemia did feel useless in episode 20. What do you mean that Euphemia wasn't smart? Can you point out any evidence she had a low I.Q.? I suppose you think that she wasn't smart enough to be ruthless and brutal, or something like that. If so, you are wrong; there is no relationship between Evilness Quotient and Intelligence Quotient.

    8. Euphemia didn't seem over Lelouch and Nunnally in episodes 19 and 21.

    9. You are blind if you think that Lelouch loved Euphemia significantly. He may have loved her enough to be sad for her death from time to time, but he didn't love her enough to not kill her when he had no good and humane reason to kill her and many practical and sensible reasons to keep her alive.

    10. I admit that Euphemia never actually knew that the Japanese hated her. But you are going into treacherous waters when you claim that she went to heaven before the the Japanese started hating her. Do you know what proof of the existence of an afterlife would do to ethical standards and how much it might complicate discussions of right and wrong? In the thread Lelouch(Zero) - Villain or Hero of Justice? posts 55, 56, 57 and 65 by +Namiko+ and myself contain a discussion of that problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    You proved nothing besides that she was a whiny little emo girl. Euphy had no clue what suffering was. She never was abandon. She never was punished. She never lost anything. Lelouch loses his mother, his home, his dear sister(euphy who he loved VERY MUCH), his girlfriend, his brother, and his life. He dies hated by the world he sacrificed himself to save.
    I doubt there are any anime characters who suffered as much as him, and are still strong enough to cope with it. I can name two Shin Kanzato and Edward Elric. That's it.
    I'm sick of you spamming the CG boards. Either move on or shut up before someone reports you.
    Euphemia didn't seem very whiny to me. I don't remember her complaining about anything.

    You say that she never lost anything. I say that she lost a lot when a member of her family was murdered and her two closest half siblings and playmates were exiled and then reported killed when she was only nine.

    Your statement that Lelouch lost his dear sister (euphy who he loved VERY MUCH) reminded me of child-murdering hypocritical Merovingian kings Clothaire I and Clothaire II and I started to discuss their crimes here, but for reasons of length I made a post # 64 in my thread Euphemia's murder discussing their crimes and lies.

    Let's just say that they killed children without any need to.

    Euphemia would have been easy for Lelouch to capture alive. If confined she would have been no more dangerous than anyone else, so there was no good or humane reason, such as protecting the Japanese from her, to prefer killing her to capturing her. Thus there was no ethical justification for killing her. Thus killing her was murder.

    I say that anime fans who got used to thinking of Lelouch as a good person because he was the protagonist of Code Geass and so forgave him for murdering Euphemia when he had no good or humane reason to kill her, have taken a giant step toward lowering their ethical standards so much that if someone ever made animes in which Clothaire I and Clothaire II were the protagonists they would forgive the Clothaires for their utterly needless murders of children.

    When Lelouch met with Euphie in episode 22 he said that he was going to make her shoot him, thus sparking a riot what would start his revolution. Did Lelouch imagine that the angry Japanese, rioting and starting the revolution, would content themselves with booing Euphie and throwing rotten tomatoes at her? No, he imagined that they would try to kill her. And apparently he didn't care if they killed her or not or even wanted them to kill her.

    Your statement that Lelouch suffered a lot by losing his girlfriend is also dubious. In the first season Kallen became a member of the student council and got to know the other members. But at least once Kallen was about to kill one of the other members when she suspected her secret was about to be exposed. When the Black Knights took over Ashford Academy during the Black Rebellion Kallen thought that she hoped that the other student council members got away -- despite the fact she had been prepared to kill at least one of them recently. Lelouch thought that with the Black Knights guarding Ashford Nunnally would be safe. Lelouch did not think about the safety of any of his other friends, including his girlfriend Shirley. So he was not as worried about Shirley's safety as someone who just weeks ago might have killed Shirley to keep her secret safe!

    Yes, Lelouch might have been upset when Shirley was killed by Rollo. But during the Black Rebellion he was not shown thinking about her safety. He didn't love her enough to think that having the Black Knights at Ashford would protect her as well as protecting Nunnally.

    I think that Lelouch loved Euphemia, Shirely, and Nunnally enough to feel mild regret over needlessly killing Euphemia, and wild grief when Shirley was killed, and terrible grief when he thought that Nunnally was dead. But I don't think that he loved any of them enough to change his actions while they were alive to reduce the probability that they would be killed as a result of his actions. Pointing a gun at Euphemia and pulling the trigger without any sensible or humane reason proves that point in regard to her. As for Shirley and Nunnally, once Lelouch gained the power of geass he could control where they lived and where he would start his rebellions against Britannia. So starting a rebellion in the same country and the same city as Shirley and Nunnally lived seems like reckless endangerment of their lives.

    Lelouch's love was worthless if it was strong enough to make him regret the deaths of his loved ones after they were dead but not strong enough to keep him from endangering and even killing them. It was a weak and useless kind of love, strong enough to make him feel guild and sorrow but not strong enough to protect those that he loved from his actions.

    Here are some paragraphs you chose not to quote from my post number 214: I am certain that many of the countless millions of unnamed extras in Code Geass had much more tragic lives with much more suffering than Lelouch did. Many persons whose fathers abandoned their mothers before they were born, whose mothers died in childbirth or abandoned them to orphanages when they were born or who neglected them terribly. They were passed from foster family to foster family or largely ignored in orphanages Finally they found loving families to adopt them, but just as they were settling in their new families were viciously murdered by crazed cultists or slaughtered in a Britannian invasion or the Black Rebellion or killed in an earthquake or other natural disaster and they found their way back to orphanages.

    Then new families found them and they overcome their fears that they would jinx the new family and found brief happiness before their new homes in Tokyo or Pendragon were destroyed by F.R.E.I.J.A. They were instantly vaporized or their shattered bodies were pinned under rubble and their struggles could not get them free as the raging fires came closer and closer and___or they survived the bombing and wandered around in a daze until radiation sickness killed them.

    I read that tens of millions were killed in Tokyo and Pendragon. So many of the victims must have had such tragic lives before being killed at the age of fourteen, or twelve, or ten, or younger.


    My point # 4 from post # 146 in Did Euphemia escape from her Geass Before Lelouch Shot her?

    4) And what to you mean that Lelouch suffered a lot during the series? What about Suzaku?

    He certainly suffered a lot more from the death of Euphemia than Lelouch did. For the whole year between the first and second seasons Lelouch did not remember anything from his past life and thus did not feel any guilt, remorse, or regret, for killing Euphemia. He even believed the official Brittannian story that she had ordered the massacre and been executed by the imperial government. If he ever thought about her it was as a notorious criminal who he didn't know and got what she deserved.

    While Suzaku, depending on how much he loved Euphemia, would not have let a day, or maybe an hour, go by without thinking of her with sorrow. I wonder how many times during that year he cursed himself for obediently bringing Lelouch back alive, instead of torturing hm to death in bloody vengeance.

    Suzaku turned out to be so great a failure at the whole "get bloody vengeance on those who kill your loved ones" thing that eventually he had to become a henchman of his enemy, helping him in his plans in return for the promise of being able to kill him when he wanted to be killed. People who want revenge on their enemies all agree its no fun to kill them when they want you to do it.

    And I think that Nunnally suffered more than Lelouch from their separation for a year between the first and second seasons, since Lelouch could not even remember that he had a sister Nunnally.

    And for the year between the first and second seasons, which probably lasted much longer than both seasons combined, Lelouch was punished for rebellion, treason, and murder by living the life of a wealthy, popular, high school student. What a fiendish punishment! What cruelty! How barbaric!


    I have seen Fullmetal Alchemist and I only hope that many of the fans of that show are as disgusted by your comparison of Lelouch and Edward Elric as I am.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 01-22-2010 at 11:14 PM.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    not yet completed 12/11/09. Still uncompleted 1230 am Saturday 12/12/09.



    You are responding to points from my post # 214 which were responding to points that +Namiko+ made in her post # 150. Thus each of my points is phrased to refute one of Namiko's points.

    1. You say that NO ONE CARES ABOUT EUPHY'S MOTHER!. Perhaps no Code Geass fans care about her. But you can be certain that Cornelia and Euphemia cared abut her. And if she is dead by the time of Code Geass you can be certain that her death was just as traumatic for Euphemia as Marianne's death was for Lelouch.
    2. you say that Marianne was not Euphemia's friend. But Euphemia had fond memories of watching the stars with Lelouch, Nunnaly, and Marianne. It seems to me that children who enjoy doing things with their playmates and their playmates's parents think of their playmates's parents as their friends, and are saddened by the deaths of those friends, however those friends actually feel about them.
    What does the expression about having her plate on the wall mean? And who is supposed to have had whose plate on the wall?
    3. You say that Charles was never seen treating Euphie poorly. I don't think that Charles was ever seen interacting with Euphemia. Many people have said that Charles had no feelings of love for any of his children. You can be certain that the vast majority of children suffer if either of their parents has no love for them. And when the massacre started in episode 22 Charles saw and laughed "He did it! He geassed her!" with amusement. That shows how little concern he had with her well-being, and she is likely to have sensed that over the years.
    4. You say:MURDER MURDER MURDER MURDER! Jesus! You love that word. He didn't MURDER her, he defeated her in battle. Don't say, "It wasn't a battle." It was.
    Let's take the Fall of Constantinople in 1453, a historic battle. The novel The Prince of India, or why Constantinople Fell by Lew Wallace has it's climax at the Fall of Constantinople, a real battle. The protagonist is The Wandering Jew of medieval legend, condemned to walk the Earth until the second coming of Christ. He quarrels with Emperor Constantine and helps Sultan Mehmet II capture Constantinople. And in the final assault he and his henchman, a ferocious warrior, pass through the fighting until they come to Constantine and The wandering Jew orders his henchman to kill Constantine.
    That certainly seems like an act of murder to me, even though it takes place in a battle.
    to be continued
    I plan to add a lot of examples of historic persons murdered during battles.

    5. This was phrased the way it was because it was a response to a point of +Namiko+'s and thus may be a little weak compared to various things that Lelouch and other characters went though. But remember all the children at Narita who did not see a terrible slaughter because the Britannians did not massacre anybody there. And the reason why they did not slaughter and massacre was probably because Euphemia forced herself to go to witness what was done at Narita and forced herself to be stubborn and insist on going when Cornelia opposed her going.

    6. +Namiko+ wrote that "His father sent Nunnally Away", presumably meaning during the period between the two seasons. So I responded to that point by writing that "Her (Euphie's) father sent Nunnally away" meaning that he sent Euphemia's playmates Nunnally and Lelouch to Japan as hostages where they were soon reported killed, when Euphie was only nine. Does that explain the difficult puzzle of what "her father sent Nunnally away." means?

    7. Euphemia did feel useless in episode 20. What do you mean that Euphemia wasn't smart? Can you point out any evidence she had a low I.Q.? I suppose you think that she wasn't smart enough to be ruthless and brutal, or something like that. If so, you are wrong; there is no relationship between Evilness Quotient and Intelligence Quotient.

    8. Euphemia didn't seem over Lelouch and Nunnally in episodes 19 and 21.

    9. You are blind if you think that Lelouch loved Euphemia significantly.

    10. I admit that Euphemia never actually knew that she the Japanese hated her. But you are going into treacherous waters when you claim that she went to heaven before the the Japanese started hating her. Do you know what the existence of an afterlife would do to ethical standards and how much it might complicate discussions of right and wrong? In the thread Lelouch(Zero) - Villain or Hero of Justice? posts 55, 56, 57 and 65 by +Namiko+ and myself contain a discussion of that problem.




    Euphemia didn't seem very whiny to me. I don't remember her complaining about anything.

    You say that she never lost anything. I say that she lost a lot when a member of her family was murdered and her two closest half siblings and playmates were exiled and then reported killed when she was only nine.

    Your statement that Lelouch lost his dear sister (euphy who he loved VERY MUCH) reminds me of a statement that the Frankish King Clothaire II made in 612 when he condemned the aged Queen Brunhilda to a horrible death. He said that she had caused a feud in the Merovingian Dynasty which had resulted in the deaths of ten kings and princes. Which was true. Except that Clothaire's mother Fredegunda had really stated the feud by murdering Brunhilda's sister.

    And except that he, Clothaire II, had himself ordered the deaths of the last two victims in the royal family, Brunhilda's little great grandsons. If Clothaire considered the deaths of those two boys part of the terrible tragedy of the feud and a part of the reason to execute Brunhilda, why didn't he simply not have them killed? He could have had their long hair cut short and then forced them to become monks and confined them in a monastery as several other Merovingian kings and princes were.

    Euphemia would have been easy for Lelouch to capture alive. If confined she would have been no more dangerous than anyone else, so there was not good or humane reason, such as protecting the Japanese from her, to prefer killing her to capturing her. Thus there was no ethical justification for killing her. Thus killing her was murder.

    When Lelouch met with Euphie in episode 22 he said that he was going to make her shoot him, thus sparking a riot what would start his revolution. Did Lelouch imagine that the angry Japanese, rioting and starting the revolution, would content themselves with booing Euphie and throwing rotten tomatoes at her? No, he imagined that they would try to kill her. And apparently he didn't care if they killed her or not or even wanted them to kill her.

    Your statement that Lelouch suffered a lot by losing his girlfriend is also dubious. In the first season Kallen became a member of the student council and got to know the other members. But at least once Kallen was about to kill one of the other members when she suspected her secret was about to be exposed. When the Black Knights took over Ashford Academy during the Black Rebellion Kallen thought that she hoped that the other student council members got away -- despite the fact she had been prepared to kill at least one of them recently. Lelouch thought that with the Black Knights guarding Ashford Nunnally would be safe. Lelouch did not think about the safety of any of his other friends, including his girlfriend Shirley. So he was not as worried about Shirley's safety as someone who just weeks ago might have killed Shirley to keep her secret safe!

    Here are some paragraphs you chose not to quote from my post number 214: I am certain that many of the countless millions of unnamed extras in Code Geass had much more tragic lives with much more suffering than Lelouch did. Many persons whose fathers abandoned their mothers before they were born, whose mothers died in childbirth or abandoned them to orphanages when they were born or who neglected them terribly. They were passed from foster family to foster family or largely ignored in orphanages Finally they found loving families to adopt them, but just as they were settling in their new families were viciously murdered by crazed cultists or slaughtered in a Britannian invasion or the Black Rebellion or killed in an earthquake or other natural disaster and they found their way back to orphanages.

    Then new families found them and they overcome their fears that they would jinx the new family and found brief happiness before their new homes in Tokyo or Pendragon were destroyed by F.R.E.I.J.A. They were instantly vaporized or their shattered bodies were pinned under rubble and their struggles could not get them free as the raging fires came closer and closer and___or they survived the bombing and wandered around in a daze until radiation sickness killed them.

    I read that tens of millions were killed in Tokyo and Pendragon. So many of the victims must have had such tragic lives before being killed at the age of fourteen, or twelve, or ten, or younger.

    I give up. You've done nothing but make me hate Euphemia. Congrats troll, you did your job. I pretty much guessed that you're a Euphy hater making fun of her fans. All you proved to me is that you are to insane to tell he difference between reality and fiction and don't realize good entertainment. Instead you try to fill it with logic and 'right and wrong". I'm finished you and your complete spam. It's ridiculous.


    You're stupid if you think that Lelouch didn't care about Shirley. But I guess you never watched her death, huh?

    I don't feel like explaining how blind YOU are if you don't understand Lelouch. I stand by my last post. Someone really should report you for spamming.
    Goodbye you overly offensive *****.
    Last edited by Rolo Vi Britannia; 12-12-2009 at 12:50 PM.


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  20. #220
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    too much BS to read

  21. #221
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    ugh i could only read the first couple paragraphs of that word wall. and lelouche had feelings for everyone who died .both euphemia and shirley dying were inconveniences. heck he was even angered and saddened by both events. oh yeah and to answer the question of the topic euphemia only weakened the geass when she was with suzaku but never stopped. lelouche is a brittanian and was thus not in the danger of being shot.

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  22. #222
    Searching Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger has a reputation beyond repute Dragon Ranger's Avatar
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    jesus lay off the long paragraphs

  23. #223
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    what mines barely a couple sentences. its not as bad as you make it seem.

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  24. #224
    Cardinal of Eden Vital Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia has a reputation beyond repute Rolo Vi Britannia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sr. machinehead View Post
    what mines barely a couple sentences. its not as bad as you make it seem.
    I think he was referring to proeuphie, otherwise he would have quoted you.


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  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolo Vi Britannia View Post
    I think he was referring to proeuphie, otherwise he would have quoted you.

    sr machinehead is not that bright

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