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Thread: *SPOILERS* Did Euphie Escape...

  1. #76
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcePriestess View Post
    I don't actually remember what words Lelouch said to gods, but he ordered them to "kill" Marianne and Charles(Of course you don't know that she was alive, do you?). And at that time he ordered this, his Geass adapted to another eye and he had 2 geass eyes, which means he became even more stronger than he already was. Since he used his geass on Nunally with stronger geass, she managed to resist it a little at the beginning, but obeyed in the end. So the point is that Euphemia encountered only "weak" Geass of Lelouch.
    But Euphemia and Nunnally were capable of resisting a geass command, and the gods were not, so Euphemia and Nunnlly must both be superior to the gods, even if Euphie is perhaps a thousand to a million times superior to Nunnally. But you say that Lelouch used a double-eyed geass command on the gods.

    Oh, wow! A double-eyed geaas command! Shouldn't that be maybe twice as powerful as a single-eyed geass command? So at the most the gods would have been just twice as capable of resisting a geass command as Nunnally, and Euphemia was between a thousand and a million times superior to Nunnally if judged by the speed of breaking a geass.

    Nunnally resisted but did not break a double-eyed geass command and broke a forgetting gess, while Euphemia resisted and defeated a command geass which was much stronger than a forgetting geass and thousands of times faster than Nunnally, so even if the geass commmand she broke was not a double-eyed one she still seems incredibly superior to Nunnally who in turn is probably superior to every other person that is considered to be merely human in the world of code geass. I think that is the very least that can be said about Ephemia's greatness.

    I think it wold be advisable to give up trying to disprove Euphemia's greatness, before you end up trying to convince me and our readers that the gods were not as insignificant as some people think they were, that actually the gods were almost as great as Euphemia!

    P.S. Shouldn't Lelouch have commanded the gods not to bring Charles and Marianne back to life? Wouldn't the gods simply bring them back to life as soon as lleouch left if the gods had even the slightest desire for Charles and Marianne to be alive? And if the gods didn't have even the slightest desire for Charles and Marianne to be alive, the gods would probably have killed them if Lleouch simply asked them to, without using his geass.

    Thus Lleouch should have added "and never bring them back to life!" to his geass command if he wanted Charles and Marianne to stay dead. Perhaps he did and it was cut from the script for reasons of time. Perhaps the writers forgot about that and painted themselves into yet another R2 corner.

    But if the gods were commanded to never bring Charles and Marianne back to life and had time travel capability they could resurrect them and send them back in time to Lleouch's era if they ever broke the geass command after countless millions or billions of years. So it seems they never did break the geass command and thus they were infinitely inferior to Euphemia in geass breaking ability.

    If the gods did not have time travel ability they might not bother to resurrect Charles and Marianne after lleouch was dead and they didn't need to do so to annoy him. But that would mean that they failed to break their geass command before lleouch died, and thus were much inferior to Euphie in geass breaking ability.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-04-2009 at 12:06 AM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Oh, wow! A double-eyed geaas command! Shouldn't that be maybe twice as powerful as a single-eyed geass command? So at the most the gods would have been just twice as capable of resisting a geass command as Nunnally, and Euphemia was between a thousand and a million times superior to Nunnally if judged by the speed of breaking a geass.
    *sigh* Okay, there are two things that you are clearly disregarding:

    1. Euphemia NEVER broke her Geass. She may have been close, really close, or really, REALLY close, but getting close does not mean actually doing it, so she never broke the Geass, especially since (and here's what you keep forgetting) THE GEASS CAME BACK!

    I would have been amazed if Euphemia broke the Geass and returned to reality in the middle of a battlefield (holding a gun), while being surrounded by carnage and destruction, and yet, act calm and collected about it.

    2. There is no point in comparing the speeds of breaking the Geass since 1) you are comparing two different types of Geass from two different people and 2) Euphemia never broke her's.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Nunnally resisted but did not break a double-eyed geass command and broke a forgetting gess, while Euphemia resisted and defeated a command geass which was much stronger than a forgetting geass and thousands of times faster than Nunnally, so even if the geass commmand she broke was not a double-eyed one she still seems incredibly superior to Nunnally who in turn is probably superior to every other person that is considered to be merely human in the world of code geass. I think that is the very least that can be said about Ephemia's greatness.
    Nunnally DID break a double-eyed Geass...FROM CHARLES! He has the Geass in both of his eyes! This was revealed baack during the second episode of R2 (I will again assume that you did not watch R2).

    And I will again point out that Euphemia didn't break the Geass placed upon her, so there is no point in comparing her "Geass breaking speed" to Nunnally's, when Euphemia never broke the Geass to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    I think it wold be advisable to give up trying to disprove Euphemia's greatness, before you end up trying to convince me and our readers that the gods were not as insignificant as some people think they were, that actually the gods were almost as great as Euphemia!
    I am not trying to disprove anything about Euphemia's "greatness" (again, its a cartoon; settle down) since most of the evidence that you have presented as proof of her "greatness" is not valid. That's like saying that you like Bill Gates because he is a monkey trainer. Sure, there are plenty of things one can like about him, but you can't like him for being a monkey trainer because that is not true (and there is no point in arguing otherwise). Euphemia is a good character and all, but you can't say that she is better than anyone else because she broke the Geass, broke it faster or because she resisted longer than anyone else because that is not true (and there is no point arguing otherwise).

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    P.S. Shouldn't Lelouch have commanded the gods not to bring Charles and Marianne back to life? Wouldn't the gods simply bring them back to life as soon as lleouch left if the gods had even the slightest desire for Charles and Marianne to be alive? And if the gods didn't have even the slightest desire for Charles and Marianne to be alive, the gods would probably have killed them if Lleouch simply asked them to, without using his geass.
    No. That was an implied command. Lelouch could have been direct about the command or just implied what it meant. Charles and Marianne are the only ones involved in stopping the progress the time, so while Lelouch could have just said "Kill Charles and Marianne", he didn't have to. Telling the gods not to stop the progress of time would be the same as telling them to stop the people who are trying to stop the progress of time, and since Charles and Marianne are the only ones trying to do that, they are the ones who are killed.

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    But that would mean that they failed to break their geass command before lleouch died, and thus were much inferior to Euphie in geass breaking ability.
    Well, again, Euphemia never broke the Geass; she MAY have been close (your opinion, not mine) but being close, again, doesn't mean anything (being ClOSE to breaking the Geass does not mean that one ACTUALLY did). Also, if we assume that everyone has the same chance of resisting the Geass, the gods would have had only have half the chance of resisting the Geass than if it was in just one eye; twice the power means one's chance of resistance (whatever it may be) would be cut in half.

    So Euphemia may have resisted, but she was only facing Lelouch's Geass when it was in just one eye. The gods (and Nunnally, for that matter) had to deal with it when it was in both of Lelouch's eyes, so your previous point is moot. That's like saying that a person who survived getting hit by a car was better than a person who died after getting hit by a semi. Yeah, the first person survived but they faced a lesser threat than the guy who died; there is no comparison between the two.
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  3. #78
    Member Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor has a reputation beyond repute Alkazor's Avatar
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    hey, I read this whole thing, do I get a prize?
    Based on everything I've seen here and in the series, and my understanding of Geass as a whole, I think Euphie was close but once the command is given, it's a battle of wills.

    Shirley resisted Geass when Lelouch ordered her to live, she wasn't even phased, but the command was impossible. Lelouch broke Charles Geass, with help from C.C., but we've discussed that. Nunnaly resisted Lelouch's Geass, and so did Euphie, but...

    I think they were only able to resist because Lelouch didn't want them to be controlled in the first place. He must have been dying inside when he had to use his geass on Nunnaly, the one person he would never use it on, and Euphie was an accident. I think they were only able to resist because Lelouch wanted them to break the geass.

    Everything else I could comment on has already been covered...in detail...and I read it... Ow.

    Also, Bill Gates is the coolest monkey trainer alive.
    Last edited by Alkazor; 08-04-2009 at 10:34 PM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    So you assume that Lelouch would have killed Euphemia because she was a threat to his plans, and you ask why he didn't kill Suzaku who you think was a bigger threat to his plans.

    I don't think that Lelouch killed Euphemia because she was a threat to his plans. Lelouch's other attackers and defenders may think they know why he killed Euphemia, but I have thought of dozens of reasons why Lelouch might have killed Euphemia (and that's not counting my Letterman-style list of silly reasons) but I don't claim to know if Lelouch killed her because of any one or combination of those reasons. His actual motives, unlike many of his possible motives, are a mystery to me.
    Look Im just saying Lelouch never intended or wanted to kill Euphy when they met at the SAZ, he had his chance at the island when she revealed Lelouch identity and knew it might one day threaten his plan but yet he let her live then. Not only that it was even revealed that he had some romantic feeling for her after he killed her and even regrets doing it too and you cant deny that. As I said before the sudden activation of his geass giving Euphy the accindental command, Lelouch incomplete knowledge about his geass, his emotional break down, his need for revenge and his calculating logic all led him to conclude that he must kill Euphy in order to carry on his revenge.
    But lets get back to Lelouch character he's not the type to willingly sacrifice the life of someone close to him and if you seen R2 Lelouch didnt want Rolo to give up his life to save his even though Rolo killed Shirley and lelouch also wanted to kill him too or how he lied to Kalen that everything he did such as the rebelion was just a game for his own amusment so she wouldnt sacrifice her life fighting her own comrads to save his. Euphy was just unlucky so get over it and move on to another princess. Oh yes that also reminds me Lelouch captured Cornellia and locked her up, so again Euphy was just unlucky, fortunetly Conellia was spared so Im guessing your feeling got through... well sort of.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkazor View Post
    hey, I read this whole thing, do I get a prize
    Yes, irreparable brain damage. I didn't even get through a half a page of proEuphie's uberbias before my soul recoiled in horror, so I can only imagine the lasting genetic damage a full dose would do.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Woah, those are extremely long post. Why do you guys have to quote the really big ones? Not just parts, the ENTIRE thing! I won't even bother reading this, just had to make that comment.

  7. #82
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    Wow. There was somebody who actually read all of this(that's like reading a bible, as somebody said in previous posts). Actually I think whatever we say, and it doesn't matter that we are right, ProEuphie will keep defending Euphemia and trying to prove her wrong fact that Euphemia broke Geass. Actually we don't have to go further into this conversation. The writers/creators of Code Geass may have never thought about her breaking Geass and just made Euphemia "another victim of the Geass" in order for Code Geass to have more episodes. So I don't see the point in arguing with ProEuphie anymore,because she will keep defending Euphemia(as her nickname says), no matter what we will say.
    It is stupid to be afraid to die, but the most stupid thing is to be afraid to live.

  8. #83
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Apparently nobody read all of my post # 68.

    It has always been debated whether the geass failed to take control of Euphemia in the sickbay because it realized that she was too weak to kill and thus gave up trying to make her kill, or because she defeated the geass command.

    As I said near the bottom of post # 68, on Saturday, 08/01/09, I remembered what we all knew and what we all should have remembered months ago. Euphemia was certainly strong enough to kill Suzaku and other Japanese people while she was struggling with the geass command in the sickbay.

    Afterward, she continued to use, in a nonviolent manner, a power or ability which can be used to kill one person or countless millions of persons when used in a violent manner. It is a skill which makes each of us potentially capable of destroying all life on Earth.

    Many people have used that talent or ability to save or harm people born decades, or centuries, or thousands of years later than their own deaths. Many people who lived hundreds or thousands of years ago have used that skill to change the way we live our lives today.

    If you haven't yet remembered such an obvious thing, which I felt so stupid for not remembering months ago, it is a power which the geass command had made her use to kill Japanese people. So the geass command should have been able to remember making her kill that way before, and if it didn't have any memory it should have thought of using that killing method just as easy and fast as it thought of using that killing method the first time.

    So if you haven't remembered it yet, you'd better think fast, or wait some minutes before you read on.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    And that power to save or kill which Euphie was still strong enough to use was:

    Talking.

    Euphemia could have asked Suzaku to get the captain of the Avalon on the intercom. And then she could have ordered the captain to kill Suzaku and any other Japanese (prisoners, honorary Britannians, etc.) aboard, and head for the nearest ghetto to blast it with the Avalon's weapons!!

    Yes, the geass command knew that Euphemia was still strong enough to kill. So Euphemia defeated and broke it for the first or the second time in the sickbay,
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-08-2009 at 10:16 PM.

  9. #84
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcePriestess View Post
    Wow. There was somebody who actually read all of this(that's like reading a bible, as somebody said in previous posts). Actually I think whatever we say, and it doesn't matter that we are right, ProEuphie will keep defending Euphemia and trying to prove her wrong fact that Euphemia broke Geass. Actually we don't have to go further into this conversation. The writers/creators of Code Geass may have never thought about her breaking Geass and just made Euphemia "another victim of the Geass" in order for Code Geass to have more episodes. So I don't see the point in arguing with ProEuphie anymore,because she will keep defending Euphemia(as her nickname says), no matter what we will say.
    see my post # 83.

  10. #85
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin Natsume View Post
    Woah, those are extremely long post. Why do you guys have to quote the really big ones? Not just parts, the ENTIRE thing! I won't even bother reading this, just had to make that comment.
    see my post # 83.

  11. #86
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    Yes, irreparable brain damage. I didn't even get through a half a page of proEuphie's uberbias before my soul recoiled in horror, so I can only imagine the lasting genetic damage a full dose would do.
    see my post # 83.

  12. #87
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkazor View Post
    hey, I read this whole thing, do I get a prize?
    Based on everything I've seen here and in the series, and my understanding of Geass as a whole, I think Euphie was close but once the command is given, it's a battle of wills.

    Shirley resisted Geass when Lelouch ordered her to live, she wasn't even phased, but the command was impossible. Lelouch broke Charles Geass, with help from C.C., but we've discussed that. Nunnaly resisted Lelouch's Geass, and so did Euphie, but...

    I think they were only able to resist because Lelouch didn't want them to be controlled in the first place. He must have been dying inside when he had to use his geass on Nunnaly, the one person he would never use it on, and Euphie was an accident. I think they were only able to resist because Lelouch wanted them to break the geass.

    Everything else I could comment on has already been covered...in detail...and I read it... Ow.

    Also, Bill Gates is the coolest monkey trainer alive.
    see my post # 83.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    *sigh* Okay, there are two things that you are clearly disregarding:

    1. Euphemia NEVER broke her Geass. She may have been close, really close, or really, REALLY close, but getting close does not mean actually doing it, so she never broke the Geass, especially since (and here's what you keep forgetting) THE GEASS CAME BACK!

    I would have been amazed if Euphemia broke the Geass and returned to reality in the middle of a battlefield (holding a gun), while being surrounded by carnage and destruction, and yet, act calm and collected about it.

    2. There is no point in comparing the speeds of breaking the Geass since 1) you are comparing two different types of Geass from two different people and 2) Euphemia never broke her's.



    Nunnally DID break a double-eyed Geass...FROM CHARLES! He has the Geass in both of his eyes! This was revealed baack during the second episode of R2 (I will again assume that you did not watch R2).

    And I will again point out that Euphemia didn't break the Geass placed upon her, so there is no point in comparing her "Geass breaking speed" to Nunnally's, when Euphemia never broke the Geass to begin with.



    I am not trying to disprove anything about Euphemia's "greatness" (again, its a cartoon; settle down) since most of the evidence that you have presented as proof of her "greatness" is not valid. That's like saying that you like Bill Gates because he is a monkey trainer. Sure, there are plenty of things one can like about him, but you can't like him for being a monkey trainer because that is not true (and there is no point in arguing otherwise). Euphemia is a good character and all, but you can't say that she is better than anyone else because she broke the Geass, broke it faster or because she resisted longer than anyone else because that is not true (and there is no point arguing otherwise).



    No. That was an implied command. Lelouch could have been direct about the command or just implied what it meant. Charles and Marianne are the only ones involved in stopping the progress the time, so while Lelouch could have just said "Kill Charles and Marianne", he didn't have to. Telling the gods not to stop the progress of time would be the same as telling them to stop the people who are trying to stop the progress of time, and since Charles and Marianne are the only ones trying to do that, they are the ones who are killed.



    Well, again, Euphemia never broke the Geass; she MAY have been close (your opinion, not mine) but being close, again, doesn't mean anything (being ClOSE to breaking the Geass does not mean that one ACTUALLY did). Also, if we assume that everyone has the same chance of resisting the Geass, the gods would have had only have half the chance of resisting the Geass than if it was in just one eye; twice the power means one's chance of resistance (whatever it may be) would be cut in half.

    So Euphemia may have resisted, but she was only facing Lelouch's Geass when it was in just one eye. The gods (and Nunnally, for that matter) had to deal with it when it was in both of Lelouch's eyes, so your previous point is moot. That's like saying that a person who survived getting hit by a car was better than a person who died after getting hit by a semi. Yeah, the first person survived but they faced a lesser threat than the guy who died; there is no comparison between the two.
    see my post # 83.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    *sigh* Okay, there are two things that you are clearly disregarding:

    1. Euphemia NEVER broke her Geass. She may have been close, really close, or really, REALLY close, but getting close does not mean actually doing it, so she never broke the Geass, especially since (and here's what you keep forgetting) THE GEASS CAME BACK!

    I would have been amazed if Euphemia broke the Geass and returned to reality in the middle of a battlefield (holding a gun), while being surrounded by carnage and destruction, and yet, act calm and collected about it.

    2. There is no point in comparing the speeds of breaking the Geass since 1) you are comparing two different types of Geass from two different people and 2) Euphemia never broke her's.



    Nunnally DID break a double-eyed Geass...FROM CHARLES! He has the Geass in both of his eyes! This was revealed baack during the second episode of R2 (I will again assume that you did not watch R2).

    And I will again point out that Euphemia didn't break the Geass placed upon her, so there is no point in comparing her "Geass breaking speed" to Nunnally's, when Euphemia never broke the Geass to begin with.



    I am not trying to disprove anything about Euphemia's "greatness" (again, its a cartoon; settle down) since most of the evidence that you have presented as proof of her "greatness" is not valid. That's like saying that you like Bill Gates because he is a monkey trainer. Sure, there are plenty of things one can like about him, but you can't like him for being a monkey trainer because that is not true (and there is no point in arguing otherwise). Euphemia is a good character and all, but you can't say that she is better than anyone else because she broke the Geass, broke it faster or because she resisted longer than anyone else because that is not true (and there is no point arguing otherwise).



    No. That was an implied command. Lelouch could have been direct about the command or just implied what it meant. Charles and Marianne are the only ones involved in stopping the progress the time, so while Lelouch could have just said "Kill Charles and Marianne", he didn't have to. Telling the gods not to stop the progress of time would be the same as telling them to stop the people who are trying to stop the progress of time, and since Charles and Marianne are the only ones trying to do that, they are the ones who are killed.



    Well, again, Euphemia never broke the Geass; she MAY have been close (your opinion, not mine) but being close, again, doesn't mean anything (being ClOSE to breaking the Geass does not mean that one ACTUALLY did). Also, if we assume that everyone has the same chance of resisting the Geass, the gods would have had only have half the chance of resisting the Geass than if it was in just one eye; twice the power means one's chance of resistance (whatever it may be) would be cut in half.

    So Euphemia may have resisted, but she was only facing Lelouch's Geass when it was in just one eye. The gods (and Nunnally, for that matter) had to deal with it when it was in both of Lelouch's eyes, so your previous point is moot. That's like saying that a person who survived getting hit by a car was better than a person who died after getting hit by a semi. Yeah, the first person survived but they faced a lesser threat than the guy who died; there is no comparison between the two.
    My post # 83 proves that Euphemia broke and defeated her geass command in a matter of seconds (if counted from her first noticing it) or minutes or hours (if counted from the time Lelouch gave it to her) in the sickbay of the Avalon. Thus the only question left is whether she broke it earlier, when talking to Lelouch.

    Is the cup half empty or half full?

    I am willing to admit that Euphemia may not have totally defeated and destroyed and broken her geass, and you seem to think that is a great failure on her part, but look at it from the point of view of the hypothetical supervisor of her geass command:

    "What! You lost control of your subject? How could you disgrace us like that? And don't claim that you were still trying to regain control when she died. I saw how she whipped you in the sickbay. And even if you had retaken her, you would still be the first geass command ever to let the subject slip out of your control!"

    Or suppose in an alternate universe Lelouch and the Black Knights never came to rescue the victims of the Fuji Massacre for some reason. About the time that Euphemia was talking to Lelouch in the aired episode, she might have been pointing her cannon at a group of trapped Japanese people when suddenly she lowered it and her nightmare stood still and silent and the frightened people waited a second and then ran out of there as fast as they could. A few minutes later all the Britannian nightmares started marching back to the stadium under Euphemia's orders now that she had come completely out of the geass trance.

    Suppose we visited some of those lucky survivors on an anniversary of that day and they heard us arguing about whether Euphemia had completely broken her geass command. Wouldn't they think the argument was pointless? She had broken the geass command completely enough to not shoot them and enough to call off the massacre. Wasn't that complete enough?

    Why do you insist that Nunnally completely broke her geass command? Wasn't that just a few episodes before the Zero Requiem, and probably just a few days? If Nunnally was normal wouldn't she spend a third of her time asleep? If her geass made her forget that she could see for a few minutes while she was sleeping, how could she ever know?

    If she had a dream which switched back and forth from vision to nonvision, and she remembered it when she woke up, she would just assume that was a relatively normal consequence of her abnormal experience of regaining vision after years of blindness.

    And wouldn't Nunnally probably expect there was a chance she would lose her vision again suddenly, and be prepared for that? So if it did happen for short periods she probably wouldn't have any accidents worth telling other people about. If she was still in a wheelchair at that time she'd probably have someone to push and do the steering anyway.

    If she was lying in bed watching television and went blind she might just listen to it until her sight came back. Or maybe Nunnally spent some of those days before the Zero Requiem sitting chained up in a dungeon in a deep depression staring blankly off into space. If she lost her vision for a few seconds or minutes now and then, would she react strongly enough for any of her fellow prisoners to notice and ask what was the problem? And what would she tell them, if she temporarily couldn't even remember that she once had vision?

    I don't think any such hypothetical problems would be reasons to claim that Nunnally did not break her blindness geass. And I say there is not much reason to assume that Nunnally broke her geass any more completely than Euphemia broke her geass command.

    You say there is no reason to compare the speeds at which Euphemia and Nunnally broke there geases because they were different geasses. I say that most people would estimate the difference in a way that makes Euphemia do something harder much, much, faster than Nunnally does something easier, so of course you don't want them compared.

    And thus there is reason for noticing that Euphemia broke her geass thousands of times faster than Nunnally did, if counted from the times the geasess were given.

    Euphemia and Nunnally both resisted geass commands for the same amount of time, though humans cannot resist at all, and one command was single-eyed and one was double eyed. If the resistance time is the same for single-eyed and double-eyed commands, perhaps the time to break them would be the same, in which case Euphemia would capable of breaking a double-eyed command much faster than the gods did, if they ever did.

    If one form of geass was harder to break than the other, most people would imagine it would be a geass command, and thus Euphemia accomplished a more difficult feat much faster than Nunnally accomplished a less difficult feat.

    And it may not have mattered if Charles' had double-eyed geass when he used a forgetting geass on Nunnally. Didn't you once write that Nunnally could not have resisted Charles giving her the geass because she was in the hospital after being shot? This is how you describe Euphemia in the sickbay of the Avalon: "Euphemia had just been shot in the stomach. She was in an intensive care unit. She just came out of surgery. I think that qualifies as totally helpless, don't you?"

    And yet, as my post # 83 shows, Euphemia managed to defeat her geass command in that feeble condition. In seconds. That would be a lot less amazing if she had earlier broken the geass command when talking to Lelouch, and thus her subconscious mind knew exactly what to do

    And you would probably claim that Nunnally was in a somewhat similar condition in the hospital when Charles visited her and gave her a forgetting geass. So she couldn't resist. Although Euphemia did resist and defeat the geass command trying to come back

    But Nunnally's condition may have also made it harder for Charles to give her the geass. Perhaps it was so hard for him to be certain that she was conscious enough for him to geass her that he did it more than once, hoping that she stayed conscious at least once long enough to receive an entire geassing. And if she could barely hear him and barely keep even one eye open for a second at a time his double-eyed geassing might not have been much of an advantage. Perhaps when he heard that she was now blind he thought that with luck it might last five or ten years which might be enough time.

    If double-eyed geasses are harder to break than single-eyed geasses, that would reduce Euphemia's margin of superiority over Nunnally to perhaps ten times to ten thousand times. Poor Euphemia! Only ten to ten thousand times as great as the only other member of her species known to live on Earth! How shameful!
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-07-2009 at 10:21 PM.

  15. #90
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    *sigh* Okay, there are two things that you are clearly disregarding:

    1. Euphemia NEVER broke her Geass. She may have been close, really close, or really, REALLY close, but getting close does not mean actually doing it, so she never broke the Geass, especially since (and here's what you keep forgetting) THE GEASS CAME BACK!

    I would have been amazed if Euphemia broke the Geass and returned to reality in the middle of a battlefield (holding a gun), while being surrounded by carnage and destruction, and yet, act calm and collected about it.
    My post number 83 shows that Euphemia defeated her geass command in the sickbay of the Avalon, as does a part of my post # 68 that you apparently never bothered to read.

    As for right before Lelouch shot her, Euphemia reduced the influence of the geass upon her to almost zero, so that it didn't influence her actions anymore. From her point of view the glass was about 90 % full, from the point of view of the geass it was about 90% empty. And of course if she had a few more minutes without being shot she might have totally and absolutely defeated the geass.

    I say that preventing the geass from controlling you is defeating it enough to satisfy the people it doesn't make you shoot, even if it still keeps trying to regain control.

    And yes the geass came back and as my post # 83 proves she defeated it in seconds. Which makes it almost certain that her subconscious mind figured out to defeat the geass and did defeat it before she was shot, and thus it could remember how to defeat the geass when it tried to regain control.

    And Nunnally's blindness geass probably came back from time to time, depriving her of sight for a few minutes or seconds, without causing her too much annoyance. That would not be enough to make you say that Nunnally did not defeat her blindness geass, so why should you say that Euphemia did not defeat her geass command?


    So you think that Euphemia would freak out when she suddenly found herself on a battlefield, holding a gun, with a bloody dress.

    Even though that was similar in some ways to being teleported to Kaminejima, or rather into the ocean and having to wade or swim ashore and maybe almost drowning, and then seeing a dreaded rebel leader pointing a gun at you, and sounding just a little bit excited as you ask him if he is your long lost brother and not to shoot you. And perhaps other similar experiences we know nothing about.

    Maybe you should list all the other times she freaked out in moments of stress. Try listing all the moments of stress Euphemia was in and all the times she freaked out. During her episodes Euphemia was in danger and stress about as often as any of the other characters, who were soldiers and rebels. I believe that Euphemia got panicked, excited, and stressed out about zero times, unlike some of the tough and hardened soldiers and terrorists who lost their cool more often than Euphemia.

    You really expect Euphemia to run around waving her arms yelling: "Help! Help! Where am I? What happened?"
    instead of simply trying to figure out where she is and remember how she got there?

    That is not up to your standard of argument. You are not arguing about how the Code geass universe works but simply saying that a character must behave the way you expect them to. Even though no other character is known to have ever obeyed a geass command while their unconscious mind fought intense mental battles with the geass command and eventually freed them from the control of the geass command. There are no other examples to compare Euphemia's mental condition to. Unless people who complete their geass commands and come out of the trance behave exactly the same way, and it would simply be an assumption to claim that they do.

    Maybe Euphemia is often suddenly transported to strange alien worlds.
    Maybe Euphemia is a sleepwalker and is used to waking up in strange places.
    Maybe some unknown geass user gave Euphemia a geass which makes her do things periodically, and she often comes out of a geass trance in strange places.
    Maybe imperial princes and princesses get a mental conditioning to enable them to be calm in moments of crisis and danger, and it worked a lot better on Euphemia than on some others, like Clovis, for example.

    Or maybe Euphemia is just not very excitable in moments of danger and stress.

    My post # 83 shows that Euphemia was still strong enough while in the sickbay to kill using a method the geass command had made her use before. Therefore the geass command would not have abandoned its attempt to take her over and make her kill. Euphie must have defeated the geass command in the sickbay in a matter of seconds.

    That would be a lot less amazing if she had already defeated the geass command, after minutes or hours of struggle, while she was talking to Lelouch, and thus could remember how to do it when the geass command reemerged in the sickbay.

    Her behavior of not doing anything to obey the geass command while talking to Lelouch is pretty close to proof that she defeated her geass command enough to escape from its control and not even notice its feeble attempts to make her kill, so the victory over the geass command in the sickbay is hardly needed as additional evidence that Euphemia defeated the geass command while talking to Lelouch.

    Prepared to be amazed, because Euphemia did defeat her geass command while talking to Lelouch and did act calm and cool when she suddenly found herself on a battlefield holding a gun.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-09-2009 at 04:27 PM.

  16. #91
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    I-I read all the posts...I think I am going to be sick.

    To be on topic: I think that Euphemia was unable to carry out the geass commands at the end so it was kinda overridden. Just my opinion.
    Last edited by Seņor Nobody; 08-05-2009 at 09:41 PM.
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  18. #93
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    Woohoo, more to read.

    Just FYI, I did read the bible. It was shorter. It was a pocket bible, but I think it was still shorter.

    Now the Wheel of Time series...that was longer. There's a book to base a religion off of

    Anyway, ProEuphie, posts 83 and 68 have been countered effectively.
    If I wasn't really hungry and didn't have to pee, I' might join in and re-watch the entire fiasco. I might even re-read this thread. But I have to pee, and then eat, and by then I'll have forgotten what I was doing and play a game or watch TV. But I might be back. So I guess my god-knowledge will have to wait.

    Also, for the rest of us, I plan on condensing this thread a little. I'll post summaries of the posts for everybody else, weather they care or not.

    EDIT: Somehow I came back, but I've decided to rewatch episodes 22 and 23 of Lelouch of the Rebellion. "Bloodstained Euphie" and "At Least with Sorrow".

    Here are magical links.
    discussion starts at 16:06.
    Last edited by Alkazor; 08-05-2009 at 10:27 PM.

  19. #94
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkazor View Post
    Woohoo, more to read.

    Just FYI, I did read the bible. It was shorter. It was a pocket bible, but I think it was still shorter.

    Now the Wheel of Time series...that was longer. There's a book to base a religion off of

    Anyway, ProEuphie, posts 83 and 68 have been countered effectively.
    If I wasn't really hungry and didn't have to pee, I' might join in and re-watch the entire fiasco. I might even re-read this thread. But I have to pee, and then eat, and by then I'll have forgotten what I was doing and play a game or watch TV. But I might be back. So I guess my god-knowledge will have to wait.

    Also, for the rest of us, I plan on condensing this thread a little. I'll post summaries of the posts for everybody else, weather they care or not.

    EDIT: Somehow I came back, but I've decided to rewatch episodes 22 and 23 of Lelouch of the Rebellion. "Bloodstained Euphie" and "At Least with Sorrow".

    Here are magical links.
    discussion starts at 16:06.

    how can you say that posts 83 and 68 have been counted effectively?

    If Euphemia could talk she could order people killed. She talked for a long time (well, minutes at least) after the geass was no longer bothering her. Her geass knew that she had been able to talk people to death before by ordering a massacre. Thus the geass knew that she was strong enough to kill.

    No self respecting geass command would just abandon a subject who still had so much potential for carrying on the mission. The only possible reason why the geass did not take over Euphie must be that she defeated it in just seconds.

    Please point out the numbers of any posts where anyone even discusses that point, let alone counters it.

    Then the question becomes, when Euphie defeated the geass command in the sickbay, was it for the first or the second time? Did she defeat it before, while talking to Lelouch? But after my post # 83, I don't see how anyone can seriously discuss that point without admitting that Euphie defeated her geass command in the sickbay of the Avalon.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-05-2009 at 11:47 PM.

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    Unlike some people I like to try to keep my info in one post, so the summaries are gonna be massive. (Don't worry, we love you ProEuphie) ^_-

    Anyway, after watching the episodes again, here's what it looks like. is Euphie resisted the Geass for a number of reasons. First, she never killed before, and she loves the Japanese. That would be like asking Santa to murder children. He'd do it, but he'd be reluctant. Second, Lelouch really didn't want her to either, and since Geass has so much to do with willpower, Lelouch's lack of a will for her to kill might have helped. Third, there's really no way, short of about 30 FLEIJA weapons that could take out every Japanese person. It could also be that his eye just went permanent, or the C.C. had just sent Suzaku into C's world (Or whatever the hell happened there) or Chuck Norris could have politely asked her not to. There's a number of reasons she resisted.

    As for her talking to people, Geass doesn't turn you into a robot that can only do things that count towards the goal. It makes you work towards that goal. Nunnaly told Lelouch the key was his. That didn't help her hand it over. Suzaku rushed to his death on multiple occasions, and the geass just had to take over in those situations. I'm sure I could re-watch a few other episodes and find some more people who did personal things while working towards the command.

    As for the sickbay, I think there was more happening internally there. She would have preferred to die for Suzaku then kill him. The geass command flashed back to her when she remembered he was Japanese. It was then suppressed, and that's when her health took a turn for the worse. If your body can't carry out the command, it just turns off. I'm sure she could have come back from a bullet wound. Suzaku escaped an explosion, Orange came back from the dead, Guilford jumped out of a FLEYJA blast, Mao survived like, 50 bullets...She probably had a stronger will to save the Japanese than to live.

    Anyway, the way Geass works is complicated, but basically, the eye opens a place in the brain, making them vulnerable to the power of suggestion (Schneizal was pretty accurate when he said it was like a deep hypnosis) and then they say something, and the person does what they interpret it to mean. Euphie can handle killing the Japanese however she wants. If that means sitting down for Tea with Zero, then that's ok. That's probably why it doesn't work on animals (I have no evidence that it does or doesn't, but I do know he never used it on an animal, so I'll assume it doesn't work since Lelouch couldn't tell it what to do and have it understand).

    I'll edit this with the arguments from the other post later, and I'm sure WolfGirl will want to post something. Anyway, it's 11 AM and I'm gonna go ahead and go to sleep.
    Last edited by Alkazor; 08-06-2009 at 11:49 AM.

  21. #96
    Senior Member Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko's Avatar
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    First: I loved your post <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkazor View Post
    As for her talking to people, Geass doesn't turn you into a robot that can only do things that count towards the goal. It makes you work towards that goal. Nunnaly told Lelouch the key was his. That didn't help her hand it over. Suzaku rushed to his death on multiple occasions, and the geass just had to take over in those situations. I'm sure I could re-watch a few other episodes and find some more people who did personal things while working towards the command.
    I'll add the teacher from R1 who told Lelouch what was going to appear in the test. Teachers from R2 who went blind eye to Lelouch and Rolo's behavior. And that girl that was ordered to carv the wall. She acted normal, until she was sent to Britannia and was unable to keep carving the wall at Ashford.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkazor View Post
    As for the sickbay, I think there was more happening internally there. She would have preferred to die for Suzaku then kill him. The geass command flashed back to her when she remembered he was Japanese. It was then suppressed, and that's when her health took a turn for the worse. If your body can't carry out the command, it just turns off.
    I don't think that the geass command turned off, the scene gave me the idea that Euphemia's logical process wasn't working anymore because she was getting weaker and dying. The order was there, but she wasn't able to connect the dots anymore. I don't know how to describe it, it's a weird feeling, like feeling light headed and then passing out.
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  22. #97
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luluko View Post
    First: I loved your post <3



    I'll add the teacher from R1 who told Lelouch what was going to appear in the test. Teachers from R2 who went blind eye to Lelouch and Rolo's behavior. And that girl that was ordered to carv the wall. She acted normal, until she was sent to Britannia and was unable to keep carving the wall at Ashford.



    I don't think that the geass command turned off, the scene gave me the idea that Euphemia's logical process wasn't working anymore because she was getting weaker and dying. The order was there, but she wasn't able to connect the dots anymore. I don't know how to describe it, it's a weird feeling, like feeling light headed and then passing out.
    Of course a geass command would not make people do anything except what the command said to do and any necessary steps. It wouldn't make them do anything odd or unusual or even normal in addition to what they were commanded to do. If they were interrupted while working on obeying their command it would let them react naturally but would be more and more likely to cut it short as they took more time to handle the interruption. That would be the easiest and least suspicious method of getting the job done.

    You have to remember that some of those people were given geass commands to do something n the future, and of course they would live their normal lives until it was time to start doing what they were commanded to do. They were not in the geass trance yet (and might never be, if they were killed or something else happened to make it pointless for the geass command to even try carrying out the task).

    And some of those people, like the girl who carved a cross on the wall every day, were given commands to be obeyed periodically. It would probably take her one to ten minutes every day to walk to the wall, carve the cross, and walk back to a place that was part of her normal routine. She would only be in the geass trances for one to ten minutes every day, and would be her normal self the rest of the time.

    And even if people did react like their normal selves while in a geass trance, the geass command would make them get back to work after a second or so. The geass command would let a girl say hello to her friend, but if she then started to give a synopsis of the last several episodes of their favorite soap opera the geass command would make tell her friend she had to go, instead of letting her waste minutes.

    The geass command could not stop Euphemia from apologizing to Lelouch, but after that it should have made her do something to find more Japanese people to kill and it didn't. As the seconds tick away and Euphemia does not get on with exterminating the Japanese or discuss it with Zero while he is right there and obviously capable of helping or hindering the slaughter, it sure becomes harder and harder to believe the geass is in control of her.

    I'm sure Euphemia was not in prime mental condition in the sickbay, but she did become aware of an urge to kill Suzaku, and she did struggle against it, and she did seem peaceful after that. And then she asked Suzaku to go back to school and live a normal life, worried about his future once she was gone. And after that she asked Suzaku how the ceremony went, and did she do well, and were the Japanese happy. It seems to me that she was fairly rational then, and she could have understood a concept like "kill all Japanese! Contact the captain and order him to kill every Japanese he can find!" at least as easy as the concepts she did handle accurately. She didn't ask Suzaku to marry a whale with green fur, or ask if she had made a good impression while tickling the African missionaries, or anything else which indicated that she was very confused.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-07-2009 at 10:50 PM.

  23. #98
    Senior Member Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    You have to remember that some of those people were given geass commands to do something n the future, and of course they would live their normal lives until it was time to start doing what they were commanded to do. They were not in the geass trance yet (and might never be, if they were killed or something else happened to make it pointless for the geass command to even try carrying out the task).

    And some of those people, like the girl who carved a cross on the wall every day, were given commands to be obeyed periodically. It would probably take her one to ten minutes every day to walk to the wall, carve the cross, and walk back to a place that was part of her normal routine. She would only be in the geass trances for one to ten minutes every day,and would be her normal self the rest of the time.

    And even if people did react like their normal elves while in a geass trance, the geass command would make them get back to work after a second or so. The geass command would let a girl say hello to her firend, but if she then started to give a synopsis of the last several episodes of hteir favorite soap opera the geass command would would make tell her friend she had to go, instead of letting her waste minutes.

    The geass command oculd not stop Euphemia from apologizing to Llelouch, but after that it should have made her do something to find more Japanese people to kill and it didn't. As the seconds tick away and Euphemia does not get on with exterminating the japanese or discuss it with Zero while he is right there and obviously capable of helping or hindering the slaughter, it sure becomes harder and harder to believe the geass is in control of her.
    I wasn't contradicting his post, just offering more examples. The only one who turned violent and was sent to an instution for her behavior was the girl who used to carv the wall at Ashford. Everyday she tried to go back to Ashford to follow the command. Pretty hard since she was back at Britannia.
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  24. #99
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luluko View Post
    I wasn't contradicting his post, just offering more examples. The only one who turned violent and was sent to an instution for her behavior was the girl who used to carv the wall at Ashford. Everyday she tried to go back to Ashford to follow the command. Pretty hard since she was back at Britannia.
    Whose post were you not contradicting? ProEuphie's post or Alkazor's post? You didn''t name "him" so now you have me wondering who, if anyone, should reply to your post # 98.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-07-2009 at 10:56 PM.

  25. #100
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackrosetwilight View Post
    Look Im just saying Lelouch never intended or wanted to kill Euphy when they met at the SAZ, he had his chance at the island when she revealed Lelouch identity and knew it might one day threaten his plan but yet he let her live then. Not only that it was even revealed that he had some romantic feeling for her after he killed her and even regrets doing it too and you cant deny that. As I said before the sudden activation of his geass giving Euphy the accindental command, Lelouch incomplete knowledge about his geass, his emotional break down, his need for revenge and his calculating logic all led him to conclude that he must kill Euphy in order to carry on his revenge.
    But lets get back to Lelouch character he's not the type to willingly sacrifice the life of someone close to him and if you seen R2 Lelouch didnt want Rolo to give up his life to save his even though Rolo killed Shirley and lelouch also wanted to kill him too or how he lied to Kalen that everything he did such as the rebelion was just a game for his own amusment so she wouldnt sacrifice her life fighting her own comrads to save his. Euphy was just unlucky so get over it and move on to another princess. Oh yes that also reminds me Lelouch captured Cornellia and locked her up, so again Euphy was just unlucky, fortunetly Conellia was spared so Im guessing your feeling got through... well sort of.
    What you can''t seem to realize is that Lelouch let Euphemia pick up and keep a machine gun and then left the safety of his armored nightmare to walk up to her. It seems that Lelouch knew that Euphemia's normal self would never want to harm him and that the geass command would never make her shoot him unless he acted overtly hostile. Suspicion of possible hostile intent would not be enough to make the geass act.

    Lelouch was in total command of the situation when he killed Euphemia. It would have been just as fast, just as easy, and just as safe for Lelouch and the Japanese to capture her as to kill her. What possible justification could there possibly be in anyone's wildest imaginations for killing someone who doesn't even know that you are hostile to them and will not be dangerous if confined with reasonable security?

    Haven't you heard the saying "never point a gun at anyone you don't want to kill"? If you do it might go off accidentially and kill them. Lelouch pointed a gun at Euphemia once in "Black Knight", twice in "Island of the Gods", and for a fourth time in "Bloodstained Euphie", and again when he shot her in "At Least with Sorrow". And there was no justification for it any time.

    And so what if Lelouch regrets killing Euphie? Every normal (and most abnormal) person feels regret after killing somebody, whether it is murder or a justified killing.

    My grandmother told me a story how my grandfather went hunting and shot a pheasant which she cooked for dinner. But he couldn't eat it and cried and said he was sorry he killed such a beautiful bird.

    Who displayed an amount of regret most fitting to the deed? My grandfather or Lelouch?

    A lot of people would say that my grandfather was not an action hero but an overly kind and sensitive civilian. But my grandfather was also an eighteen-year-old war hero who killed and captured several enemy soldiers.

    The soldiers that my grandfather killed, wounded, and captured might have believed that he was way too much of an action hero and wished that he was a lot more kind, gentle, and sensitive.

    I believe that my grandfather's regret for killing a bird was a lot closer to the right level than Lelouch's mild regret for killing Euphemia was.

    Millions and millions of soldiers and policemen have killed people in situations which they believed made it justified, and yet suffered a lot of guilt for it for the rest of their lives. Countless millions of men have agonized over their deeds and wished there had been a way not to kill.

    Millions of men would have given anything to go back in time and make the other person love and trust them enough so that they could capture them in perfect safety instead of having to kill them. Lelouch didn't need to go back in time to change anything, he already had a chance to capture someone in perfect safety instead of having to kill them.

    It may have been perhaps the best chance that any warrior or rebel in the history of his world ever had to avoid a lifetime of well-deserved guilt. A chance that comes along once in countless billions of lifetimes. And he didn't use that chance but killed Euphie anyway.

    And for that he felt a little more regret than my grandfather felt for killing a bird!
    Last edited by proEuphie; 08-08-2009 at 12:10 AM.

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