Child Beauty Pagents

[Miss Moonlight]

I know this is nothing new, but I saw this show on TLC about it when I was over my friend's house.

What do you think of mothers putting their young daughters in beauty pagents? is it harmless fun, or a detriment to a young girl's sense of self?

is it harmful to a growing girl's self-image or body-image because it teaches them at a young age that perfection, vanity and money is more important if you are a woman?

do you believe it robs them of a normal childhood where they will constantly be put in a competitive attitude against other women or people? are they being thrown into adult life too soon?

personally, it's not something i'd do to my daughter. It seems like alot of work, and many of the parents and grandparents in the show i've watched seemed to only want their children or grandchildren to "win" in these pagents because they would win cash or other prizes for themselves, or as one grandmother put it on the show, "grandma needs a new car!"

and, girls as young as two are being put in these pagents - they spray tan them, put lots and lots of makeup on them, fake eyelashes, fake hair, and put them through other "adult" beauty regmines.

Do you believe that parents/mothers who put their children in these pagents, are living through their children or using them to gain weath or status, or perhaps a unrealized dream of the mothers?

Do you feel that these pagents over-sexualize young girls?

Also, an article here.

[Magical Soul]

I think the mothers do it more for them selves.

[Miss Moonlight]

I think the mothers do it more for them selves.

Yes, that's what it seems like mostly, but I was just curious about everyone's opinions on them.

[Miya]

yes on all fronts. Those things are scary!
All it serves to do is implant terrible gender expectations on young women. They learn to associate success with looks, just like their shallow, petty, self absorbed mothers.
It's totally a case of parents living through children. They need their lives validated by having their freaky little spawn get a head start into the life of materialism they inexplicably value.
I hope i'm not coming off as mean about this, but I really do think that it's a terrible thing to do to a child.

[Srk]

What do you think of mothers putting their young daughters in beauty pagents?

1. Is it harmless fun, or a detriment to a young girl's sense of self?

2. Is it harmful to a growing girl's self-image or body-image because it teaches them at a young age that perfection, vanity and money is more important if you are a woman?

3. Do you believe it robs them of a normal childhood where they will constantly be put in a competitive attitude against other women or people?

4. "Grandma needs a new car!"

5. And, girls as young as two are being put in these pagents - they spray tan them, put lots and lots of makeup on them, fake eyelashes and other "adult" beauty regmines.

6. Do you feel that these pagents over-sexualize young girls?.

1. No, it's defnot harmless fun.

2. Oh, yes, that is quite harmful to the little girls' health. Perfection: no such thing. Vanity: not a good trait at all. Money: ha! Love is more important!

3. After these things, they will be so much more competitve, and more than likely they will be getting into fights in school about who is better than the other.

4. Lolwut? If that's not using the young girl as a freakin' tool for money and other valuable items, I don't know what is.

5. As young as two? Oh, God, what is the world coming to? None of all that make-up will do any good. It's the natural beauty that shines. Although lip gloss does, too, the natural beauty of the girl is more obvious to me than it is to those judges.

6. Yes, those pageants do over-sexualize the poor girls. They will always think they are better than the rest of the world (especially men) because of the horrible stuff their caregivers (i.e. parents, grandparents...) had put them through to make them win money for themselves. Only sparing a few dollars for the kid, of course.

[Ryth]

It's pretty much old news that this is highly detrimental to the mental health of the children. They're essentially brought up in an environment that makes them believe that they're essentially never good enough and the only thing that matters is dressing yourself up like you're a Barbie Doll.

[Diocletian]

All I know is that they will be my future wives. How they feed pedo bears with their loliness is none of my business until then.


I get the sarcasm moon.

Alright I'll be more meaningful. There really isn't anything sexual about BP. It's mostly all in your head. Anything can be sexual if you put enough thought into it. Childhood is about enjoying yourself and if you're enjoying yourself in the pagents then I can't see the problem.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

I think the mothers do it more for them selves.

Yes and no, I would say.
In most cases mother's do want to do it for themselves.
But then there are those truly mothers who think they are helping their daughters, they want to give their daughter something else.
In some cases mother's think they are installing self confidence in these girls and it usually doesn't work well in that case.
The girls come out to vain, to perfectionist, to popular, and have that ego attitude that isn't fit for a young lady.

[Luluko]

Childhood is about enjoying yourself and if you're enjoying yourself in the pagents then I can't see the problem.

This. If they want to dress up pretty, model their clothes and show off their singing/dancing/juggling/whatever talent because they like doing it, then there's no problem.

The bad thing starts when the little girls stop looking like little girls: with the heavy make-up, the over-styled hair, the not-so-childish dresses and so on.

An example: "Little Miss Sunshine" movie.

[Miss Moonlight]

Well, i'm not simply talking about normal "dress up" where they sing and dance; that's rarely harmful.

The bad thing starts when the little girls stop looking like little girls: with the heavy make-up, the over-styled hair, the not-so-childish dresses and so on.

Well, that was the point of the thread; most of the little girls in these pagents don't look like little girls at all, they look like little women -- with the heavy make-up, the over-styled hair, and the not-so-childish dresses.
There is a difference between normal childhood dress-up and making your daughter into a smaller and version of a grown woman. Children aren't simply small adults.

Not all pagents are like this, but alot are.

And @ Diocletian: filler.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Well, that was the point of the thread; most of the little girls in these pagents don't look like little girls at all, they look like little women -- with the heavy make-up, the over-styled hair, and the not-so-childish dresses.
There is a difference between normal childhood dress-up and making your daughter into a smaller and version of a grown woman. Children aren't simply small adults.

Not all pagents are like this, but alot are.

Yeah, but that doesn't just fall under pageants these days.
Have you went to a Macy's or Mervyns as of late.
These clothes they have for children, um yeah I'm not going to let my daughter[if I ever decide to have a family with a wife] wear something like that.
And then of course you have look at the real young girls "role models" Hannah Montana, etc.
So young girls aren't just exposed to those factors in pageants, they are also exposed to the factors in real life as well.

[Vintniv]

What wonderful stimulus these things. Isnt it great to set up a bunch of girls on a stage and judge them based on beauty that doesnt even exist yet? Just imagine what they will be like in the future. On its own degree, what kind of affects do you think this will have on them as they develop? If one of them wins, they become stuck up and think of themselves as beautiful, and if they lose, do they spend the rest of their lives questioning their own beauty by comparing themselves to this one time? Geez, this is how to start pretty great mental disorders later on in life. Nothing says beauty like an obsessive-compulsive disorder.

[Luluko]

Well, i'm not simply talking about normal "dress up" where they sing and dance; that's rarely harmful.

Well, that was the point of the thread; most of the little girls in these pagents don't look like little girls at all, they look like little women -- with the heavy make-up, the over-styled hair, and the not-so-childish dresses.
There is a difference between normal childhood dress-up and making your daughter into a smaller and version of a grown woman. Children aren't simply small adults.

Not all pagents are like this, but alot are.

You're talking like it's the pagents fault that kids show up like that. In reality, it's the parents own fault.

[Miss Moonlight]

You're talking like it's the pagents fault that kids show up like that. In reality, it's the parents own fault.

That was also addressed in the beggining of the first post in the thread; that the parents/caretsakers are responsible, not the pagents themselves.

What wonderful stimulus these things. Isnt it great to set up a bunch of girls on a stage and judge them based on beauty that doesnt even exist yet? Just imagine what they will be like in the future. On its own degree, what kind of affects do you think this will have on them as they develop? If one of them wins, they become stuck up and think of themselves as beautiful, and if they lose, do they spend the rest of their lives questioning their own beauty by comparing themselves to this one time? Geez, this is how to start pretty great mental disorders later on in life. Nothing says beauty like an obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Well, not only that (I am not saying all girls in pagents will turn out this way or are this way, but I feel it promotes these things) -- self-worth that is poor and dependant mostly on outer appearance (which will be constantly changing); self-worth dependant on other values that aren't an integral part of a normal healthy functioning; worth dependant on money and "winning", and a poor view of themselves and everyone else. What happens when/if they are no longer deemed "cute" enough to win any longer?

When they are children, the parents in these pagents (moreso the mothers) seem to parade their daughters around as "cute" little toys and make them jump through hoops to win money and other things. It isn't always harmful, but alot of parents are over-zealous in their need to win. Some parents will do anything to make their children win so that they can reap the rewards (money, goods, attention, their own inner needs, etc.)

But children and people aren't toys, so I think it's a form of objectification. Of course, this doesn't exist just in pagents. It exists everywhere for both men and (mostly) women and girls everywhere in society. I just used the pagent as a seperate example.

[Luluko]

That was also addressed in the beggining of the first post in the thread; that the parents/caretsakers are responsible, not the pagents.

Then the title of the thread is misleading. It should be about bad case of competitiveness among parents. Again, it's not the pagents fault and this case is not exclusively for beauty contests, it's a common situation in... almost every field.

But, then again, that's just my opinion.

[Darkandiel]

I am against child beauty pagents. It's sexualising young girls from a very young age, it can't be right. Most of those children are pushed into it by their idiot mothers. I remember seeing a show about this. Some of the kids were throwing temper tantrums. One little girl really didn't want to be there but her mother practically dragged her kicking and screaming. Just proves one thing it's the mother reliving her own stupid childhood fantasy of wanting to be a princess. Probably she didn't feel pretty enough growing up. Fake teeth, fake hair, fake eyelashes, heavy makeup, it disgusts me that these mothers would rob their daughters of their childhood like that.

On saying that, I see nothing wrong with kids being involved in talent shows, and normal town pagents etc,(many places have annual festivals for that kinda thing) it can be fun for the kids.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

I don't think it's any worse then, say, football*. That teaches horrible life lessons and maims and injures people. In most cases the reason people see pageants as a bad thing and see football as a good is sexism, pure and simple. Don't teach your daughter to be a "hussy"... but you go out and rip those other boys a new one, Timmy.

*- American or Other.

[Miss Moonlight]

Then the title of the thread is misleading. It should be about bad case of competitiveness among parents. Again, it's not the pagents fault and this case is not exclusively for beauty contests, it's a common situation in... almost every field.

No, it isn't misleading. It's quite simple. The thread isn't simply about "bad case of competitiveness among parents". If it were, then it would be titled "bad case of competitiveness among parents".

It's about child beauty pagents, and what you think about children dressing up as dolls in order to win money, goods, etc.

It was never stated anywhere that the pagents were to blame; I thought it was obvious that the parents were the ones making the choices to bring their children to these pagents.

Just proves one thing it's the mother reliving her own stupid childhood fantasy of wanting to be a princess. Probably she didn't feel pretty enough growing up. Fake teeth, fake hair, fake eyelashes, heavy makeup, it disgusts me that these mothers would rob their daughters of their childhood like that.

That was also partially my point, the parents seem to be overcompensating for themselves and using the children for their own needs. Glad to see someone else gets it.

I don't think it's any worse then, say, football*. That teaches horrible life lessons and maims and injures people. In most cases the reason people see pageants as a bad thing and see football as a good is sexism, pure and simple. Don't teach your daughter to be a "hussy"... but you go out and rip those other boys a new one, Timmy.

Besides competitiveness, does football really encourage poor-self image? I would think it would improve it, in most (although not all) cases.

Since child beauty pagents are focusing on the child (girl's) beauty and outer appearance as a means of gaining money and wealth (at a young age, and at a early part of their developmental/growing process), I wouldn't consider that the same exact thing. But I am not talking about beauty pagents in general; I am talking about child beauty pagents specifically.

Football players usually come in many sizes and can be the ugliest players ever, as long as they are good at the game. Girls in (child) beauty pagents usually cannot win if their beauty is deemed lacking.

She even said that she would make her girls to participate in a beauty competition to make her family be proud, and have her daughters to honor the family. Basically that's like forcing her girls to be the tools of brighten up herself. And same goes to most of those girls' parents. Little kids are not as powerful as adults in making decisions, so I'm sure that most part of the reason is the parents.

Yes, exactly. I am not talking about all beauty pagents or all child beauty pagents, but the ones that involve over-zealous mothers. In my opinion, depending on the age of the child, the child isn't old enough to make their own decisions, and usually just wants to please the parent.

The parent will often say "this is her choice, I don't push her", but in some cases I think that's a cop-out, because most children aren't capable of making rational decisions in the area of where a parent expects them to do something.

And yes, children as the ultimate tools for the parents/mother. That's what I was mostly getting at as well.

[-akichan-]

For a 5 year-old, she probably wouldn't know as much as parents about why is she in the pagents. Basically, it's usually the parents that makes or asks the little girl if they want to do it or not.

In my country, there is a yearly pagents of young girls, minimum age is 17. And that pagents has been ruining lots of girls thinkings. They think that looking beautiful and sexy showing on the TV is where they start to become a famous star, but at least they know why they are there, and they can choose to do it or not. But for the little girls, it is more likely to be the parents who make the decision. I have a friend who has 3 girls, and to her, the girls are the most beautiful angels in the whole universe, and she often show off her girls to other mothers. She even said that she would make her girls to participate in a beauty competition to make her family be proud, and have her daughters to honor the family. Basically that's like forcing her girls to be the tools to brighten up herself. And same goes to most of those girls' parents. Little kids are not as powerful as adults in making decisions, so I'm sure that most part of the reason is the parents.

I wonder if the winner would become a little movie star...young movie stars tends to give up their schooling and turn out so bad once they are grown up.

EDIT: Another cruel thing about parents is that as you said, the mother would state that they didn't push the girl, but they would ask her in a forceful way or say all these benefits to make the girl say yes. Of course the yes or no is up to the girl, but she wouldn't know how to paraphrase it in her head and make the best decision.

[Luluko]

No, it isn't misleading. It's quite simple. The thread isn't simply about "bad case of competitiveness among parents". If it were, then it would be titled "bad case of competitiveness among parents".

It's about child beauty pagents, and what you think about children dressing up as dolls in order to win money, goods, etc. I never once said anywhere that the pagents were to blame; I thought it was obvious that the parents were the ones making the choices to bring their children to these pagents.

But that's the thing! A beauty pagent, in this case for children, is just a competition that has rules and requirements. Just like in sports or any other thing you can think about.

The rules don't state you need to dress the child in a certain way (too mature, too childish), but they also don't say they can't. And why? Because they have categories ruled by ages, they can't be too picky, standards need to be general and it's up to the parent or caretaker to decide where to draw the line.

[LittleGirl]

I think they're completely disgusting, and creepy. Someone find a picture of one of these kids. It's messed.

[Darkandiel]

I don't think it's any worse then, say, football*. That teaches horrible life lessons and maims and injures people. In most cases the reason people see pageants as a bad thing and see football as a good is sexism, pure and simple. Don't teach your daughter to be a "hussy"... but you go out and rip those other boys a new one, Timmy.

*- American or Other.

I disagree, football is completely different. It is not about self image. Okay, there is a certain amount of "image" involved whereby, if you play good you get put on a pedestal or whatever. Still that image is not about personal appearance. I would be very disappointed if my mother put me through that as a little girl. Then I'm not American so it wouldn't happen here. It's not only about sexualising the child, it is also about giving the child a false sense of superiority. They are not living their childhood. They spend too much time indoors learning how to be a "young lady" how to walk, how to smile, how to act on stage. Football is fun. I can't see anyone learning to be violent from it. Okay maybe American football is a bit, I don't know much about it.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

Besides competitiveness, does football really encourage poor-self image? I would think it would improve it, in most cases.

It teaches you that you are no more then your accomplishments. Most football players have a very fragile self esteem, which isn't exactly a good thing.

Since child beauty pagents are focusing on the child (girl's) beauty and outer appearance as a means of gaining money and wealth (at a young age,vand at a early part of their developmental/growing process), I wouldn't consider that the same exact thing. But I am not talking about beauty pagents in general; I am talking about child beauty pagents specifically.

Football is focusing on physical accomplishment and aggressiveness to the exclusion of mental accomplishment. It's the same thing, insofar as they are stereotypical male traits v. stereotypical female traits.

Football players usually come in many sizes and can be the ugliest players ever, as long as they are good at the game. Girls in (child) beauty pagents usually cannot win if their beauty is deemed lacking.

Tell that to the 95 pound weakling-kid with asthma, or the 200 pound kid who runs the mile in 43 minutes. Discrimination is discrimination.

I disagree, football is completely different. It is not about self image. Okay, there is a certain amount of "image" involved whereby, if you play good you get put on a pedestal or whatever. Still that image is not about personal appearance.

No, it's about physical acomplishment, no real difference.

I would be very disappointed if my mother put me through that as a little girl. Then I'm not American so it wouldn't happen here. It's not only about sexualising the child, it is also about giving the child a false sense of superiority. They are not living their childhood. They spend too much time indoors learning how to be a "young lady" how to walk, how to smile, how to act on stage.

Welcome to the world of sports. Dads put their children in football to live vicariously through them, exactly the same as moms and beauty pageants. Most schools will let you slide on academics completely if you're decent at American Football, and I imagine similar traditions exist for soccer.

Football is fun. I can't see anyone learning to be violent from it. Okay maybe American football is a bit, I don't know much about it.

What, getting dressed up and pretending to be a star on stage isn't fun?

.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

I think they're completely disgusting, and creepy. Someone find a picture of one of these kids. It's messed.

To your horror here.Are you accomplished and happy now?

[Miss Moonlight]

But that's the thing! A beauty pagent, in this case for children, is just a competition that has rules and requirements. Just like in sports or any other thing you can think about.

The rules don't state you need to dress the child in a certain way (too mature, too childish), but they also don't say they can't. And why? Because they have categories ruled by ages, they can't be too picky, standards need to be general and it's up to the parent or caretaker to decide where to draw the line.

Usually, some parents (mothers, more specifically) can't draw the line when their child keeps winning and winning. In some more serious cases (which don't always reflect child beauty pagents in general) the parent becomes addicted.

The child then becomes a golden ticket to more weath, money, status -- in other words, a cash cow. The parents know that their child needs to be the best looking according to the pagents standards if they have a chance at winning, and of course every parents wants their child to win.

And i'm not sure of the exact rules, but i've watched a bunch of shows on child pagents. They are not doing anything wrong intentionally; but the problem stems from the fact that the parents sometimes cannot draw the line. It isn't a simple matter of how you dress the child; it's what it is teaching the child at a young age and probably for the rest of their lives. But like it was said already, this isn't just a problem in child pagents, it's an issue in society in general.

To your horror here. Are you accomplished and happy now?

Ah, well that's not the worst example, but I did learn that they often give the child fake teeth called "flappers" to hide any dental problems. It's possible that girl is wearing some because her teeth look slightly fake.