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Thread: Religion's role

  1. #101
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate Ninja from SPACE View Post
    You either haven't grasped what he's saying, or you're deliberately misunderstanding it (i.e. putting up a straw man). Either way, shame on you.
    I was not entirely sure what he is saying, which is why I started my post by saying "are you suggesting that...", since I had an idea about what he is saying (and gave my argument based on that) but I was still not exactly sure (I was actually hoping that is not what he meant, which is why I wrote my post the way I did). In any case, unless there some underlying message that I do not yet understand, I still disagree. I may have misunderstood what he is saying but I did not do it on purpose.

    I disagree that religion, in and of itself, is a bad thing that harms or kills people. That might sound weird coming from someone who is a witch and has had many clashes with Christians (and history has more evidence of this), but it is because of my beliefs why I say religion is not a bad thing. I can not say "religion kills!" because I am still a follower of a religion (Wicca). It would be a little awkward to support the elimination of religion, yet practice a religion at the same time.
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  2. #102
    Senior Member OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha has a reputation beyond repute OmegaAlpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post

    I disagree that religion, in and of itself, is a bad thing that harms or kills people. That might sound weird coming from someone who is a witch and has had many clashes with Christians (and history has more evidence of this), but it is because of my beliefs why I say religion is not a bad thing. I can not say "religion kills!" because I am still a follower of a religion (Wicca). It would be a little awkward to support the elimination of religion, yet practice a religion at the same time.
    It's nice that you're a friendly "witch". I personally don't think we should eliminate religion in general. (I don't even think it's possible) I just think it's important to not kid ourselves. The "big 3" religion's holy texts clearly state to kill non believers or infidels. This is a matter of fact.

    Just because you call something "religion" does not make it off limits. If your book says everyone who does not believe in said book will burn for eternity, you're the one being rude and arrogant. When non believers take on Christianity and Islam (2 of the more frequently attacked religions) they have history and the bible on THEIR side.
    The biggest advocate and tool for becoming a non believer is actually sitting down and reading the bible.
    I came from a Catholic family and I love them deeply. The fact remains that the book they draw their morality is unscientific, violent, sexist and homophobic.
    Last edited by OmegaAlpha; 01-29-2009 at 07:54 PM.

  3. #103
    Moderator / Chat Admin Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Are you suggesting that religion has absolutely no faith in it, since you claim that faith and religion are two entirely different things that do not intersect?

    Faith and religion are different things by definition but it is very hard to separate faith out of religion, as if to say religion has no faith in it.

    I didn't say that at all. Quite the contrary, Faith is a large and important aspect of Religion. It's the way that religion as an institution teaches people myths as though they were historic fact and uses their faith to manipulate the way they think and act that causes varying levels of social and personal harm.

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  4. #104
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    The problem with the old communist texts is that what they called capitalism, and what we call capitalism today are two entirely different things. Capitalism back then was just as terrible as they described it. It had large issues, with a very few people making a lot of money, and the rest essentially living as slaves with no rights to speak of and no chance of making it out of poverty.

    However. Capitalism has changed over the last 150 or so years, partially as a reaction to Marx and communism. The lines between classes have blurred. The sad part is that socialism doesn't seem to realize this, and and keeps using the same arguments and terminology as they did 150 years ago, making the ideology largely unable to deal with the challenges that have arisen with capitalism today.
    First of all I want to make it clear I'm no socialist. However, I disagree strongly with dismissing Marxist schools of thought because they supposedly "use the same arguments and terminology as they did 150 years ago", which is far from true. What about the critiques of modern society by the Frankfurt School, and writings critiquing late-capitalist society by contemporary Marxist thinkers like Antonio Negri (who illustrated his concept of Empire/Multitude in "Empire" co-authored by Michael Hardt), Deleuze/Guattari ("Anti-Oedipus"), or Frederic Jameson ("Postmodernism: The Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism") who are very far from dogmatically Marxist, yet apply Marxist concepts to modern capitalist society?

    As you have pointed out, capitalism today differs wildly from what it was when Capital was first published. Yet I believe that there are fundemental flaws in the system which the modern mode of capitalism you describe still has not found a way to solve, and there are several key terms in Marxism that are still relevant in this newfound context. Or to put it another way, nobody else has been able to offer an alternative ideology that can "deal with the challenges that have arisen with capitalism today".

    Excuse me for going so off tangent, but this is something I've been thinking about often lately. I suppose the debate on the left is even more prominent in Japan because there is currently a very real rift in class between temporary workers (Haken-Shain) who are basically being recruited for nothing by large companies and laid off at times of crisis with zero respect, and workers assured job securities (Sei-Shain, literally "true workers").
    Last edited by Datenshi; 01-31-2009 at 07:32 AM.
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  5. #105
    Member M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X. has a reputation beyond repute M.X.'s Avatar
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    WOW, didn't think this topic would explode like this, anyway, I guess it goes back to my old argument from the "Too old for anime" thread. Basically, if you want to follow a religion, or not, do it because you truly believe it, and want to follow that path. Before you choose, look inside, and ask yourself: Am I doing this because I truly, in the heart of hearts, believe in the path I've chosen, or am I just doing it because of either emotional shelter or as part of a tribe mentality.....That is my opinion.

    Don't worry about the world going to hell, because there's nothing you can do about it anyway. Just sit back, and enjoy the ride...

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