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Thread: Religion's role

  1. #1
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    Default Religion's role

    Well, another religious thread, yes, but a slightly different one... There are people out there, many of whom I know personally, that think of religion as a cancer that must be eliminated in order for mankind to survive and prosper. They believe that it is meaningless, and a curse on mankind. "All it does is cause wars, and suffering, and irrationality!!!"

    On the other hand, there are, well, the religious people themselves, that naturally disagree with this to say the least. Then, there are the potentially infinite viewpoints possible in between.


    What does AF think? Does religion play a role, should it be outlawed, what exactly is it's value and purpose? I have a viewpoint, of course, but I won't reveal it just yet, I'll just say that I am not atheist, but am not affiliated with any organized religion.

    Is religion really a "cancer", or a "curse"? (try to refrain from petty insults, we're mature people here, right? Try to actually back up your opinion with something. Keep it a clean, rational debate.)

    Don't worry about the world going to hell, because there's nothing you can do about it anyway. Just sit back, and enjoy the ride...

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    I don't think there's any point in destroying organized religion, any more than there is any point in destroying 9-11 Truthers. You teach logic, scientific method, and skepticism and the problems with religion will disappear.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    So, what role do you think religion plays, or what value does it have, if any, even though based on your post I think I can guess very little...

    Don't worry about the world going to hell, because there's nothing you can do about it anyway. Just sit back, and enjoy the ride...

  4. #4
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    Religion isn't really "cancer" or a "curse". It is really just people's need to believe in something that is larger than they are, to make them feel like they matter and belong, a way to impose order on the world (and society), and also a seemingly convenient way to condemn things when they don't agree with them. It is, in a way, today's mythology.

    There is no way to 'outlaw' religion since it has personal, psychological/emotional, and social roots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000
    You teach logic, scientific method, and skepticism and the problems with religion will disappear.
    Well, I think that's assuming that most religious people will even want to adopt those methods as the truth. Most christian/catholic people want to believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old, and no amount of logical reasoning or teaching them scientific facts is going to make them believe otherwise .. unless there are christians who believe in both creationism and evolution.
    Last edited by Miss Electric Moonlight; 01-16-2009 at 01:34 AM.
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    ...and those people that believe in both are part of that middle-ground I mentioned in the first post. Religion can give order and meaning to peoples' lives, and can cause good things, just some people... (**ahem** catholics...**ahem**) go overboard...

    Don't worry about the world going to hell, because there's nothing you can do about it anyway. Just sit back, and enjoy the ride...

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    catholics don't go over board they are just strong believers, and me being a catholic my self, I had many life and death expeariances in my life and in all of them life was granted to me because i believed in my religion, it might sound wierd but thats what i believe

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    Quote Originally Posted by M.X. View Post
    So, what role do you think religion plays, or what value does it have, if any, even though based on your post I think I can guess very little...
    Very little value, at least in organized religion. I'm not opposed to various forms of deism and near-deism.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonlightkisu View Post

    Well, I think that's assuming that most religious people will even want to adopt those methods as the truth. Most christian/catholic people want to believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old, and no amount of logical reasoning or teaching them scientific facts is going to make them believe otherwise .. unless there are christians who believe in both creationism and evolution.
    The appealing part about science is that it's logically fairly constant. You don't have to explain away why there's no geological evidence for a flood that covered the entire earth a few miles deep, for example. Or why the infinite number of turtles holding up the earth never show up on satellite pictures. There will always be a certain amount of people that will want to live in a dream world where magic happens to them and theirs to the exclusion of reality, but the majority of people aren't that way- they can be gradually convinced. You can see this in the reduced role people set aside for god now as compared to historically. The old God of the Gaps bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by M.X. View Post
    ...and those people that believe in both are part of that middle-ground I mentioned in the first post. Religion can give order and meaning to peoples' lives, and can cause good things, just some people... (**ahem** catholics...**ahem**) go overboard...
    Actually, in a lot of ways Catholics are pretty moderate. Relatively few are fundamentalists. Then again, they generally still do take a dim view of homosexuality, abortion, and in some cases what you do with the cracker after they give it to you.
    Last edited by Manhattan_Project_2000; 01-16-2009 at 01:59 AM.
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    Honestly, I completely support the concept of organized religion. It provides not only a sense of community and structure for people to live within, but a strong base of morality from which to make your own way in life as you grow up. Families belonging to one church usually have a ready-made network of trustworthy people in the event of an emergency, and of course as far as faith is concerned, it's good to know you're not alone in believing whatever you believe in.

    That being said, I distrust organized religion, because when you get down to it it's run by people. Humans. Mortal as you or I. However, as time progressed it turned into something absolutely ridiculous. Instead of being the fatherly shepherds of our souls, offering guidance and support when needed and sharing in our successes and happinesses, they became the Monarchs of our spirit. We MUST follow this. Any dissenting opinion is wrong, and should be punished, expelled, or eradicated. Pay tithes or face eternal damnation(It isn't that I'm against members of a church paying tithes, I'm just against this concept that it should be something that goes beyond "mandatory" and becomes more akin to "forced"). If you've sinned, you're more than welcome to sign a check and we'll put in a good word so it gets erased from the record. No worries. Heck, our priests have needs, howsabout you send your wives, your children over to us for a "private prayer session" or three? No, no, that's not a sin, you're servicing your church by giving of yourself! I'd commend you if we weren't keeping this completely quiet from the public!

    Yes I am aware that there are individual chapels, synagogues, mosques, etc., that are nothing like that and more akin to the shepherd role. They may even be particularly numerous and outnumber the vocal minority in their given religion that everyone sees. If that's the case, then they should either remove the negative aspects or remove themselves from that political faction of their greater faith(because that's all they really are, political factions). I am speaking of the overarching concept and what's been done with it on a worldwide scale.
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    I'm all for government discouragement of organized religion. You wouldn't have to round them up and send them to camps, all that would be necessary would be minor changes to education: Teach logic and reasoning, and begin early. Make faulty reasoning as obvious as forgetting to wear your clothes to work.

    This not only would undermine organized religion, it would also undermine politics, because the next time that hate-mongering preacher or that minister of defense is pulling their usual verbal manure, people will see his error in logic, and mock him.

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    The only problem with organized religion i have is when it includes hurting people.

  11. #11
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    Religion is a symptom not the disease itself.
    The disease is tribalism and it's part of human nature. We group up and find common identity within these groups. We then attack or at least condemn people who don't fit into our group. Religion is another group. Some of us are in many groups. We all flocked to this Anime forum, didn't we?

    I don't think we're ever going to be rid of Religion and why would we want to?
    If Religion stopped being, we'd just create new ones.



    Last edited by OmegaAlpha; 01-16-2009 at 03:30 PM.

  12. #12
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    "Does religion play a role, should it be outlawed, what exactly is it's value and purpose?"


    What, in the universe, has a value or purpose? Nothing, humans just give them this made up meaning, and worth.

    I don't see anything wrong with wanting to follow a religion.

    Neither is anything wrong with not following one.


    The problem I see is the religious people always conflicting with non-religious people.


    So now let's apply your "Does it play a role?" question.

    Liberals & conservatives.
    Democrats & Republicans.

    From the liberal perspective, Conservatives are ignorant of reality, they don't think for themselves, all they do is follow tradition. They sleep with a Bible under their pillow, it defines them.


    From the conservative perspective, Liberals are unmoral, unethical, and blindly follow science theories that have not been proven, like global warming and evolution. Liberals go against what the bible says, and are evil.


    Very obvious it plays a role, but the problem isn't religion itself, it's the stupid people, it's always the stupid people.

  13. #13
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    Am I a religious person? Yes.
    Am I Christian? No. In fact, some Christians would rather burn me.

    I am a religious in that I passionately follow my religion: Wicca. However, I do not force my religion down other people's throats and do not mind people practicing different religions from my own.

    Wicca is a close-knit religion in that coven members are very close and are usually close friends or even considered family. However, it is not an organized religion. You can worship any way you want. There are some basic philosophies in Wicca that are common to every branch but beyond that, a person is free to do whatever they want.

    Now, for obvious reasons, I not like organized religions. They have been the cause of many problems and came about through the greed of other people. Control, not worship, is the primary concern.

    However, I won't go so far as to say that organized religion (or religion in general) has to be outlawed. Being a witch, it would be more than awkward for me to advocate outlawing a particular religion.
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    Phliosphy>Religion. nuff said
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamaaina ^_^ View Post
    Phliosphy>Religion. nuff said
    Fact.

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    the first religious beliefs were mostly harmless attempts of explaining the unexplainable. then they became more like the emotional shelters. after that, most of them became either a means of crowd control, or a convenient device for justifying violence, or even both, and pretty much everyone used their chance to misconstrue the true meaning of what's written in the "holy scriptures".
    the truth is, even if we put a ban on the organized religion, people will always find some other reason to go to war. and even if that wasn't the case, no, i don't think we should just outlaw it, i think we should make them pay taxes like everyone else, arrest them for obstruction of justice when they keep silent about confessions and all that, prove them that their laws are inferior to ours. if they try to start a riot or something, just have someone quote the passages from the bible or whatever the hell they believe in to prove them that they're acting contrary to their own beliefs by organizing violence and unrest.


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3pleT View Post
    the first religious beliefs were mostly harmless attempts of explaining the unexplainable. .
    This lasted as long as it took to understand that other people had made up their own beliefs as to why things happen in life. Then tribalism comes in full force and it's holy war time!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamaaina ^_^ View Post
    Phliosphy>Religion. nuff said
    That is an absurd statement. Religion is a subset of philosophy. If philosophy is greater than religion, religion is greater than religion which is a contradiction.
    Last edited by Eris; 01-16-2009 at 04:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Waverly View Post
    That is an absurd statement. Religion is a subset of philosophy. If philosophy is greater than religion, religion is greater than religion which is a contradiction.
    Religion is believeing. Philosophy is you own personel thinking and reasoning. Religion has customs, traditions and rituals. philosophy doesnt, that's why its greater/better/pwns religion
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    I'm a christian and go to church or as you say it participate in organize religion. Do you need religion to run the country. I don't think you do. I feel that countrys that use religion to run them can be kind of scary, but on the other hand. Talking about removing religion from the country like a cancer has me kind of scared. How do you do this? Do you break into peoples homes and if they have any religious material on them they go to jail or even worse special camps as the Nazis called them, or do we just excute anybody who has any religous beliefs. I'm not just talking about christians. I mean thier are muslims, wiccans, hindus, jews, are we going to hunt them all down, and kick them out of the country. I'm all for believing in whatever you belive as long as your not hurting anybody, but telling people they can't be religious isn't democracy it's communism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamaaina ^_^ View Post
    Religion is believeing. Philosophy is you own personel thinking and reasoning. Religion has customs, traditions and rituals. philosophy doesnt, that's why its greater/better/pwns religion

    Not quite. What defines a religion is a belief system that includes a deity or deities. A philosophy is a belief or a system of beliefs, a doctrine. There is both organized philosophy (modern example is Buddhism, but many ancient greek schools of philosophy were pretty ritualistic) and personal religion.

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    buddhism is both religion and philosphy depending on which sect you research. also many philosophies reject or do not acknowledge a diety or god.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamaaina ^_^ View Post
    Religion is believeing. Philosophy is you own personel thinking and reasoning. Religion has customs, traditions and rituals. philosophy doesnt, that's why its greater/better/pwns religion
    I agree with you and yet I utterly disagree with you on the drug issue.
    interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaAlpha View Post
    I agree with you and yet I utterly disagree with you on the drug issue.

    interesting.
    dont cha' love it ^_^
    Last edited by kamaaina ^_^; 01-16-2009 at 04:35 PM.
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    To get rid of religion wouldn't change anything. The religious people would still follow their beliefs only they'd be angry at the government or whoever caused the ban. There would still be plenty wars and arguments over other issues.



    Bring me back!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by edward10 View Post
    I'm looking for episodes that have hungry girls with growling stomachs
    I lol'd at this



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