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Thread: Old games vs new games, oh what a battle.

  1. #1
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    Default Old games vs new games, oh what a battle.

    So do you enjoy the classic games more, or the new games?

    Classic Games = Pac man, Ms Pac man, etc

    New Games - Super Mario sunshine[kinda new], Madden 09, etc

    I like the new ones better, but I like the old ones too. I like playing games, no matter when it was made.
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    You need a better definition of what seperates a classic and modern title.
    If each mistake being made is a new one, then progress is being made.

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    Well I stink at explaining things as you may on noticed but I'll try to the best of my ability lol.

    Classic = The old games you find in the arcade, like pac man. Also, the first mortal kombat is on this list. Pretty much games made before 1997.

    New Games - Games made after 1997 I guess.
    Last edited by Yoko Littner; 01-07-2009 at 12:41 PM.
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    I Like both, you can get more simple pleasure out of old games but thats it. for epic fun new games are the way to go.

  5. #5
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    I like the newer games.

    If you would like a more specific answer:
    Games ranging from '1997-Present' I find I enjoy the most. That is not to say that I dislike the games before the specified time though.
    That which is; is the truth.

  6. #6
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    It depends. I don't like old games where the purpose is to just get the high score (the only exception is pacman). But there are some old games that really are worth playing.

    But my vote goes to new games since they're more fun to play with, and there are more options available to the player.
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    Older. I've been a fan of Metal Slug for years now & saying I prefer newer would betray Metal Slug.

  8. #8
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    i love the classics, the new games may have styled gameplay, amazing graphics and such but the old games...they have memories....i would take memories over stylized graphics anyday
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  9. #9
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    I say all new games are getting too much like movies and dont play good anymore

    plus I hate all that "simon says" crap shenmu started

  10. #10
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    I prefer both. I like some of the new games that can keep my occupied for long hours, but I also like old games because some have no ending, which occupies me for longer. It just depends on how I feel. =3

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  11. #11
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    A lot of my favorites end up in the SNES era, including Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, and Tales of Phanstasia. But, as a whole I think games are getting better and the standard is increasing for big titles.

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    I both like classic and new games.
    Sometimes I just a feeling to play the old school games like on my C64 (computer for games only) or the Atari consoles( mainly Pit Fall games) and some games SNES like Legend of Zelda - A link to the past, Mario World - Yoshi's Island 1 and 2 and Mario All Star.
    I like new games because sometimes for the graphics or 'cause of the game play or maybe it's a continuation of series I follow like the Final Fantasy games.
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    you should of made this a poll any way
    i prefer new games
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    If 1997 is the cut off then I'm going with older games.

  15. #15
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    Personally, I like the old games the best. The plots were very original and even though the graphics weren't the best, they are still very entertaining to play. Usually, I would pick the new games, because of the great graphics, but it's the plot that really hooks me into a game

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    It doesnt really make much sense to think about which you prefer when it comes to this. Do you like stone-age homes where we lived in caves, or do you prefer the modern home with running water and electricity? When it comes to games, the old games were simple because they had simple technology. The possibilities were quite limited with 2D technology. Today, With gaming technology advancing all the time, games are becoming more complicated. The physics in half-life 2 is a perfect example of complexity in new games.

    Newer games make you think at a greater scale and hence you feel you achieve at a greater scale. What was the greatest tactical decison someone made while playing pacman? Getting the high score in pacman is just as fulfulling as squeezing your fingers in a tight jar to pick out the hardest to reach jelly bean. A modern FPS about WW2 makes you feel you really could do a few things in the army.

    Newer games can also do many things that older games cant do. They can immerse you in an alternate form of reality with a memorable visual and aural experience, they can let you play with someone else across the globe, and they could probably do all the things older games did... if they wanted to.

    Games have improved not only through technology, but through standards. Games in the old era did not have high standards. Doom was a classic, but it was about shooting anything that moved, unless it was a door. If a FPS like that was released today it would be named and shamed... unless it has the graphical improvements to redeem itself. If you guys havent noticed, Painkiller is the modern doom. But its no classic.

    At this point i think there really isnt much to prefer with the old era. Perhaps the only reason for any doubt in this issue is because the old 2D technology associated with the old era is probably still the best for platformer games. Games like mario, street fighter, and megaman. That seems fair enough. Simple genres dont seem to mix well with complicated mechanics. But that seems to be changing as we see titles like street fighter 4.

    Anyways, ive rambled enough. I think ive convinced myself that the new is better than the old and the only reason one would prefer the old is because of some sense of nostalgia. We associate good times with classic games because they gave us plenty of joy and they were the pinnacle of gaming... back then. Sometimes i think we hold onto old games like how old people hold onto old music.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by /Aifa| View Post
    The possibilities were quite limited with 2D technology. Today, With gaming technology advancing all the time, games are becoming more complicated. The physics in half-life 2 is a perfect example of complexity in new games.
    This is unfair. All you're addressing is the realism of newer games versus older ones.


    Newer games make you think at a greater scale and hence you feel you achieve at a greater scale. What was the greatest tactical decison someone made while playing pacman? Getting the high score in pacman is just as fulfulling as squeezing your fingers in a tight jar to pick out the hardest to reach jelly bean. A modern FPS about WW2 makes you feel you really could do a few things in the army.
    Actually, most people will agree that newer games are easier than older ones from the nes-somethinsomething era. You can't compare pac-man to something like starcraft.

    Newer games can also do many things that older games cant do. They can immerse you in an alternate form of reality with a memorable visual and aural experience, they can let you play with someone else across the globe, and they could probably do all the things older games did... if they wanted to.
    Graphics are important, but they arnt everything. Like in Legend of the Dragoon. I admit graphically it's a great game, but the story, battle system, and a lot of other stuff were seriously lacking. I mean if your such a graphics hound you'd be happy playing Soul Calibur 4 over Soul Calibur 1. Also, the latter is the internet not games. If the high speed existed back when atari was out I'm sure there'd be like online Boxing or something.

    Games have improved not only through technology, but through standards. Games in the old era did not have high standards. Doom was a classic, but it was about shooting anything that moved, unless it was a door. If a FPS like that was released today it would be named and shamed... unless it has the graphical improvements to redeem itself. If you guys havent noticed, Painkiller is the modern doom. But its no classic.
    One of Dooms major pushes in popularity is that it was originally shareware (demo) and you could buy the retail if you wanted. It was also one of the first shooters to have death match. Games have higher standards today because it's a bigger business today. Newer techology and cash don't scale equally so it's a lot more expensive to make a game now then it was back then. This is one reason why games are becoming shorter. (for the most part).

    Also, the standards for the big games (like common household names) have probably stayed the same. As in, "Be sure this game breaks sales records."


    At this point i think there really isnt much to prefer with the old era. Perhaps the only reason for any doubt in this issue is because the old 2D technology associated with the old era is probably still the best for platformer games. Games like mario, street fighter, and megaman. That seems fair enough. Simple genres dont seem to mix well with complicated mechanics. But that seems to be changing as we see titles like street fighter 4.
    It's pretty widely accepted that Super Metroid is the best metroid game in the series, and that Zelda: OOT is the best zelda game. Also that Chrono Trigger is among the greatest RPGS of all time, that Soul Calibur 1 (2 in some cases) are the better games. That Final Fantasy 6 or 7 are the best ones, Golden Eye is one of the greatest FPS of all time. Super Mario Brothers 3 basically rules platforming. Castlevania: SotN is probably the best game in the series (although those GBA games come close). I'd even say that Morrowind was better than Oblivion. (although both are amazing games). I could go on.

    Anyways, ive rambled enough. I think ive convinced myself that the new is better than the old and the only reason one would prefer the old is because of some sense of nostalgia. We associate good times with classic games because they gave us plenty of joy and they were the pinnacle of gaming... back then. Sometimes i think we hold onto old games like how old people hold onto old music.
    Nah, some people like old games because they are actually good, and actually some of them are better then the new games.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by /Aifa| View Post
    It doesnt really make much sense to think about which you prefer when it comes to this. Do you like stone-age homes where we lived in caves, or do you prefer the modern home with running water and electricity? When it comes to games, the old games were simple because they had simple technology. The possibilities were quite limited with 2D technology. Today, With gaming technology advancing all the time, games are becoming more complicated. The physics in half-life 2 is a perfect example of complexity in new games.
    It makes plenty of sense. Some people just prefer different things and it can be nice to talk about it. And we're on a internet forum. In the Video Games section. Seems to be as good as any place to discuss this topic.

    Newer games make you think at a greater scale and hence you feel you achieve at a greater scale. What was the greatest tactical decison someone made while playing pacman? Getting the high score in pacman is just as fulfulling as squeezing your fingers in a tight jar to pick out the hardest to reach jelly bean. A modern FPS about WW2 makes you feel you really could do a few things in the army.
    memorizing patterns is thinking. Deciding what you're going to do in games like Herzog Zwei and Military Madness involve thinking. It was always there. Even in Pac Man it's there.

    Newer games can also do many things that older games cant do. They can immerse you in an alternate form of reality with a memorable visual and aural experience, they can let you play with someone else across the globe, and they could probably do all the things older games did... if they wanted to.
    I have no problems getting immersed in older games. If the story is there then my imagination can do the rest. Which is something younger people who grew up with bright "beautiful" 3d games seem to lack.

    Games have improved not only through technology, but through standards. Games in the old era did not have high standards. Doom was a classic, but it was about shooting anything that moved, unless it was a door. If a FPS like that was released today it would be named and shamed... unless it has the graphical improvements to redeem itself. If you guys havent noticed, Painkiller is the modern doom. But its no classic.
    True, standards have gotten better. But like Chrono said it's become a bigger industry. And graphical improvements to redeem itselfs? err graphics arent everything.

    At this point i think there really isnt much to prefer with the old era. Perhaps the only reason for any doubt in this issue is because the old 2D technology associated with the old era is probably still the best for platformer games. Games like mario, street fighter, and megaman. That seems fair enough. Simple genres dont seem to mix well with complicated mechanics. But that seems to be changing as we see titles like street fighter 4.
    Street Fighter 4 may have gone the 3d route with the graphics. Something they probably needed to do in order for it to sell well. It's still very much a 2d fighter though. They're even using 2d hit boxes.

    Anyways, ive rambled enough. I think ive convinced myself that the new is better than the old and the only reason one would prefer the old is because of some sense of nostalgia. We associate good times with classic games because they gave us plenty of joy and they were the pinnacle of gaming... back then. Sometimes i think we hold onto old games like how old people hold onto old music.
    Somewhat true on the nostalgia part. But when it comes to music, good music (or games) is good music no matter when it came out.

  19. #19
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    Ugh, that is such a tedious way of replying. Very well, ill do my best to follow..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrono1219 View Post
    This is unfair. All you're addressing is the realism of newer games versus older ones.
    Im not addressing realism. Have you played half-life 2? Half-Life 2 actually made you think because it integrated physics into its gameplay. They gave you a gravity gun for a reason. There was this one part of the game i was stuck because i couldnt comprehend that you actually had to place barrels on this object to get a see-saw effect. That is just one example from the game. Older technology could not offer gameplay on that level.

    To add to that, older technology had lower quality sound. You know, the beeps similar to the ones from a tamagotchi. Hence it is not possible to have game genres such as karaoke and other music games in the old era.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chrono1219 View Post
    Actually, most people will agree that newer games are easier than older ones from the nes-somethinsomething era. You can't compare pac-man to something like starcraft.
    I didnt compare pacman to starcraft. During the era where they had pong and pacman they had games that didnt require you to think too deeply. Starcraft is a 98 game so its between the new and old. But even the earliest forms of RTS and FPS games were very simple compared to modern versions. In classic C&C, a tank rush beats everything. In Quake, you shoot everything. In C&C3, the tank rush is a risky strategy. In Quake 4, you have teammates you shouldnt shoot.

    New games offer depth and they can also provide pong simplicity if they want to. Every free desktop game i download is as deep as pong.

    Are you really going to say that crash bandicoot is easier to play than super mario world? Who are these 'most people' anyway?



    Quote Originally Posted by Chrono1219 View Post
    Graphics are important, but they arnt everything. Like in Legend of the Dragoon. I admit graphically it's a great game, but the story, battle system, and a lot of other stuff were seriously lacking. I mean if your such a graphics hound you'd be happy playing Soul Calibur 4 over Soul Calibur 1. Also, the latter is the internet not games. If the high speed existed back when atari was out I'm sure there'd be like online Boxing or something.
    You really need to think back to the big picture. Why did i mention graphics? Why did i mention online gameplay? The old era of games could not offer superior graphics nor online gameplay. Did i say graphics are everything? No. I said graphics of today offer the level of immersion an old game could not offer. If you want to argue with me there, say something more insightful than: "yeah, well you dont need graphics anyway. and i betcha it would be the same if they had high speed internet back in 1992"



    Quote Originally Posted by Chrono1219 View Post
    One of Dooms major pushes in popularity is that it was originally shareware (demo) and you could buy the retail if you wanted. It was also one of the first shooters to have death match. Games have higher standards today because it's a bigger business today. Newer techology and cash don't scale equally so it's a lot more expensive to make a game now then it was back then. This is one reason why games are becoming shorter. (for the most part).

    Also, the standards for the big games (like common household names) have probably stayed the same. As in, "Be sure this game breaks sales records
    Stop losing the plot. Are we talking about games for consumers or producers? Are we game developers or casual gamers? We are consumers, so we are only concerned with the final product. Not how many units it needs to ship or the budget. Thats a producer's concern. Besides, you have only proved my point with your words there anyway. Im not concerned about WHY standards are higher today, but you have tried to prove why by saying its a bigger business. Therefore, you agree that newer games have higher standards than older games. Which is our topic.







    Quote Originally Posted by Chrono1219 View Post
    It's pretty widely accepted that Super Metroid is the best metroid game in the series, and that Zelda: OOT is the best zelda game. Also that Chrono Trigger is among the greatest RPGS of all time, that Soul Calibur 1 (2 in some cases) are the better games. That Final Fantasy 6 or 7 are the best ones, Golden Eye is one of the greatest FPS of all time. Super Mario Brothers 3 basically rules platforming. Castlevania: SotN is probably the best game in the series (although those GBA games come close). I'd even say that Morrowind was better than Oblivion. (although both are amazing games). I could go on.
    What was the point in saying all that? Youve just provided examples for my point that 2D is superior for platforming. Why?

    For the record, people love FF7 for its story and characters. They dont miss all their characters being virtually the same in combat. Eg, Tifa does 9999 damage as easily as Cloud. Cloud is an EX-SOLDIER dude while Tifa is some girl from a village. Makes no sense.

    Story is something that hasnt really changed between new and old games. Dont be surprised if some older titles are loved for their story and characters.



    Quote Originally Posted by Chrono1219 View Post
    Nah, some people like old games because they are actually good, and actually some of them are better then the new games.
    In life, when you make a point it is wise to also offer justification and proof. 'Nah' is not good enough. And if youre trying to speak for the niche of gamers that prefer the old retro games over new games then look at the statistics. The majority of gamers play new games. Fallout 3 alone has sold over 4.7 million copies in 4 months. How many bargain snes games have been sold in those 4 months? How many download hits has your favourite emulator site recieved in the last 4 months? Any prizes for guessing what the majority of gamers prefer when it comes to new vs old?


    If you somehow missed what i was trying to say initially i will repeat in a nutshell. Newer games can offer many things that older games can not offer. They have the benefits of many improvements in gaming standards. Clearly, new games can be similar to old games if they wanted to, but newer games have seemed to have moved on. Therefore, with all this in mind newer games are more favourable to the modern gamer than older games.

    If you want to prove me wrong feel free. But dont wander off track by further justifying my points with more examples and then start talking about game developers' concerns when we are not game developers.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rf switch View Post
    It makes plenty of sense. Some people just prefer different things and it can be nice to talk about it. And we're on a internet forum. In the Video Games section. Seems to be as good as any place to discuss this topic.
    I never said you couldnt talk about your favourite old games. I provided my opinion with the intent of only convincing myself. I even stated it clearly. If i were to try and deprive you of your free will to enjoy old games and talk about them then i would have tried to convince all of you.

    I didnt see the point in comparing new to old and i compared it to prefering stone homes to modern homes because i think i would have to travel very far to find someone who prefers pacman and pong over newer games. And if they did prefer older games, i have a feeling it would be for nostalgic reasons which makes the comparison lose its significance. What would be more important at that point would be when you were born and what games were available to you as a kid.


    Quote Originally Posted by rf switch View Post
    memorizing patterns is thinking. Deciding what you're going to do in games like Herzog Zwei and Military Madness involve thinking. It was always there. Even in Pac Man it's there.
    I didnt say you didnt need to think in older games. I said most older games like pacman didnt require you to think too deeply compared to most newer games. Mainstream gamers in the new era are quite good at thinking along with playing. Jump onto an online server of any popular game and you will be surprised about how witty and cunning your opponent can be. You will also be surprised at how well a team of players can play together in team based games. The older era didnt offer co-operative thinking because the technology wasnt there.


    Quote Originally Posted by rf switch View Post
    I have no problems getting immersed in older games. If the story is there then my imagination can do the rest. Which is something younger people who grew up with bright "beautiful" 3d games seem to lack.
    Ive played new and old games too but based on my experiences there are many things that new games do which the imagination could not have hoped to achieve. I can be quite imaginative too. I drew the picture in my sig and i do a lot of other arty stuff. The level of detail in a game like Bioshock exceeds the imagination of most people who arent novelists. I imagine thats why books are popular. They seem to guide the imagination without images or sounds. It seems an immersive game of the old era is somewhat closer to a good book than the virtual reality immersion of newer games. That being said, we can say that older games cannot offer virtual reality, which is very immersive because it uses our senses and not just our minds.



    Quote Originally Posted by rf switch View Post
    True, standards have gotten better. But like Chrono said it's become a bigger industry. And graphical improvements to redeem itselfs? err graphics arent everything.
    First of all, Painkiller is not a good game by modern standards. Graphics can redeem because the level of detail is mesmerising to many gamers. Look at some screenshots or read some reviews if you care to know about it. They acknowledge that the game is mindless run-and-gun but the graphics and detail of modelling environments and such allow it to redeem itself a little. We all appreciate art or eye-candy, and that game actually offers a degree of that. On a scale of 10, that game is about a 7 at best in modern standards.

    And this sentiment about modern gamers thinking graphics are everything is a little exaggerated. Gamers actually dont enjoy games that are 'all show and no go'. The classics of recent times are actually games that are appreciated for their gameplay or detailed story or reality. Farcry is loved for its massive environments which allow gamers to feel a sense of endlessness. Call of Duty offers a very realistic and intense war experience through every detail. MGS4 was a theatrical masterpiece with the high calibre in gameplay and visual and audio detail to complement it. Fallout 3 and Bioshock simply offer a high level of immersive gaming and they both have great stories and plot to go with them. Mass Effect is overall an RPG success.

    Like i said before, whether its a big or small or cheap or expensive industry is irrelevant. At the end of the day, there are differences to new and old games. Why this has happened does not matter because we dont think about game developing budgets when we play our old-school RPGs. We just enjoy the experience.



    Quote Originally Posted by rf switch View Post
    Street Fighter 4 may have gone the 3d route with the graphics. Something they probably needed to do in order for it to sell well. It's still very much a 2d fighter though. They're even using 2d hit boxes.
    I dont see the significance of this comment. A platformer will always be 2D in nature and i have never objected to that. A 3D platformer is not supposed to change that. Its just meant to offer the visuals and some other perks like changing camera angles.


    Quote Originally Posted by rf switch View Post
    Somewhat true on the nostalgia part. But when it comes to music, good music (or games) is good music no matter when it came out.
    Well i hope more people think like that because as far as i can tell, people seem very concerned about who the artist is more than the music itself. Im sure youre right about good music though, but in reality i dont think it would be easy to get the typical new generation of kids to appreciate good music from generations ago.
    Last edited by /Aifa|; 01-15-2009 at 11:09 PM.

  21. #21
    ☆Good Lucky☆ BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly has a reputation beyond repute BestFly's Avatar
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    Im not addressing realism. Have you played half-life 2? Half-Life 2 actually made you think because it integrated physics into its gameplay. They gave you a gravity gun for a reason. There was this one part of the game i was stuck because i couldnt comprehend that you actually had to place barrels on this object to get a see-saw effect. That is just one example from the game. Older technology could not offer gameplay on that level.
    First off, I've played Half-Life 2. It's one of the greatest games ever made, and possibly the best game you could choose to make your point. Except that half life 2 is pretty dated now and could be considered old on many standards.

    To add to that, older technology had lower quality sound. You know, the beeps similar to the ones from a tamagotchi. Hence it is not possible to have game genres such as karaoke and other music games in the old era
    Music and Sound adds a lot to a game. But the advancement of it is just the advancement in technology, not in human innovation.

    I didnt compare pacman to starcraft. During the era where they had pong and pacman they had games that didnt require you to think too deeply. Starcraft is a 98 game so its between the new and old. But even the earliest forms of RTS and FPS games were very simple compared to modern versions. In classic C&C, a tank rush beats everything. In Quake, you shoot everything. In C&C3, the tank rush is a risky strategy. In Quake 4, you have teammates you shouldnt shoot.
    I chose starcraft because as far as thinking goes, RTS games like starcraft are probably the standard. It's unfair to put atari games side by side with them. Atari could barely do platformers, it was among the most simple, barebones systems out there. BY the time systems reached snes many restrictions that the atari, and even the nintendo had, were released. Once the playstation was released the 3d graphics cap was lifted. After that whatever human innovation or such that was waiting to come out could, and the only sure advancements would be technical (music, graphics, etc)

    I'm not saying some newer games are good, even great, but theres a huge difference in a RTS/Racing/Sports game improving (among the easiest to improve) and a RPG/ActionAdv/Puzzle (among the hardest to improve).

    New games offer depth and they can also provide pong simplicity if they want to. Every free desktop game i download is as deep as pong.
    I don't quite get what you're getting at here.

    Are you really going to say that crash bandicoot is easier to play than super mario world? Who are these 'most people' anyway?
    I can't comment on Crash since I've only played a little of it. But most people, is indeed most people. The consensus is that because of the bigger business games have become made for more casual users. I'm not saying some hard games don't come out, but most of the time games are noticiably easier.


    You really need to think back to the big picture. Why did i mention graphics? Why did i mention online gameplay? The old era of games could not offer superior graphics nor online gameplay. Did i say graphics are everything? No. I said graphics of today offer the level of immersion an old game could not offer. If you want to argue with me there, say something more insightful than: "yeah, well you dont need graphics anyway. and i betcha it would be the same if they had high speed internet back in 1992"
    I never said you don't need graphics, I just simply suggested that they are far less important than you think. Again, the internet itself does not make games better. Having online play on a lot of games is basically required now, but that's more like a perk then an ingenious invention some game developer made.


    Stop losing the plot. Are we talking about games for consumers or producers? Are we game developers or casual gamers? We are consumers, so we are only concerned with the final product. Not how many units it needs to ship or the budget. Thats a producer's concern. Besides, you have only proved my point with your words there anyway. Im not concerned about WHY standards are higher today, but you have tried to prove why by saying its a bigger business. Therefore, you agree that newer games have higher standards than older games. Which is our topic.
    The point I was making was that standards have risen where they have to. Technological advancement will always raise the bar, but when it comes down to playability, story, composition, lasting appeal, replay, and overall fun those standards have been the same since each one was intergratd into games.
    What was the point in saying all that? Youve just provided examples for my point that 2D is superior for platforming. Why?
    SO you didnt notice a couple of rpgs, a action/adventure game, a fps, a fighting game, and an open world rpg?

    For the record, people love FF7 for its story and characters. They dont miss all their characters being virtually the same in combat. Eg, Tifa does 9999 damage as easily as Cloud. Cloud is an EX-SOLDIER dude while Tifa is some girl from a village. Makes no sense.
    Yeah, like once you start getting to higher levels, or if you really trick out on materia.

    Story is something that hasnt really changed between new and old games. Dont be surprised if some older titles are loved for their story and characters.
    Even beyond story, some new games are just bad, unplayable, etc. I'm not saying all old games are, but if you got something graphically stunning like crysis, and game it superman 64 you'd have the best looking crap game ever. No one could argue it being better then even a game like pacman.
    In life, when you make a point it is wise to also offer justification and proof. 'Nah' is not good enough. And if youre trying to speak for the niche of gamers that prefer the old retro games over new games then look at the statistics. The majority of gamers play new games. Fallout 3 alone has sold over 4.7 million copies in 4 months. How many bargain snes games have been sold in those 4 months? How many download hits has your favourite emulator site recieved in the last 4 months? Any prizes for guessing what the majority of gamers prefer when it comes to new vs old?
    You can't use sales records and compare them to the sales of the old games now. You need to compare them to the sales of old games back then. Then you need to adjust for the number of people who actually played games (the number has gone up). Also look at games like Pokemon which sell purely on popularity, if anything gamers prefer pokemon to fallout 3.

    If you want to prove me wrong feel free. But dont wander off track by further justifying my points with more examples and then start talking about game developers' concerns when we are not game developers.
    Why dont you try reading into things more. So far all you've proven is that graphics and stuff like that have gotten better.

    Also, you're obviously extremely biased to newer games and you've obviously justified all your choices etc. I'd go as far to say that you actually do think a game like final fantasy 12 is a better game than final fantasy 6. Or that Halo is better than golden eye.
    Last edited by BestFly; 01-16-2009 at 09:56 AM.

  22. #22
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    Im not going to reply to every one of your insignificant points because AGAIN you have wandered off track. This is not a comparison between the quality of games back then vs today. You are trying to even the ground which is pointless. Dont bother saying stuff like 'well Atari could only make simple games back then because it was a barebone system'. The fact is, today I would personally use an Atari system as a doorstop and play on a PS3. Dont refer to sales of games back in 1995 because that does not tell us what people are playing today.

    Also, HL2 is not dated. Especially not in this debate. Dont try and tell me that a 2004 masterpiece based on new-age technology still being used today is in the same category as the classics of the snes era. If youve been paying attention ive distinguished old games and new games by saying old games are the ones based on old 2D technology. Which makes sense because all along people in this thread have referred to old games as pre 1997, pacman, etc.

    Also, you are wrong about online playability not being important. Today, it is a big factor in deciding how good a game is to play. Not to mention there are games like WoW which are completely devoted to online gaming. And Even grandparents know about WoW.

    The question in the thread was simple. Do you enjoy old games more or new games? Today, would you rather drive a 1993 honda civic or a 2009 honda civic? Its a simple question. The only reason why there is any debate is because plenty of people including myself enjoy the odd 2D RPG now and then. But if i were to pick today between new games and old games i would gladly choose new games for many reasons. And that was the topic.

    They say there are 3 types of people. People that can only think small and observe little details. People that can only think in the big picture and cant analyse well. And people that can think big and small to the same extent. Since you have always avoided arguing with me in the big picture and since you have always wandered off track by pulling yourself away with little details, i am lead to believe that thinking in the big picture is not for you. And for the record, i havent played ff12 and i dont care much for halo or goldeneye.



    The point I was making was that standards have risen where they have to. Technological advancement will always raise the bar, but when it comes down to playability, story, composition, lasting appeal, replay, and overall fun those standards have been the same since each one was intergratd into games.
    Again, you made a point which you didnt justify. Replay value is actually higher in modern games. Back in the day, you finish your single-player game, and that was it. You were lucky to play that game with any friends assuming it supported it. Today, you finish your single-player game, you can then hop online to play people all over the country, you can embrace the modding community and modify the game, or you can download extra content from the developer. Clearly, newer games offer more replay value. When it comes to story and appeal, are you seriously convinced that the old Metal Gear has more of that than the new MGS4?

    You try to dismiss technology and gaming standards and say that the only important things are story, appeal, etc. You then say that story, appeal, etc has been the same for old and new games so therefore they are on even ground. But that only makes you ignorant in the public eye. There is a reason why the success of FF games is also attributed to cutting-edge graphics, FMVs, and improvements over each predecessor. Every sequel is expected to improve on its predecessor. If you wrote reviews for games today based on your basic criteria you would be questioned by the gamers.

    technological advancement is significant in the gaming community. People knew the technological advancements of the SNES over the NES. And today, people know the advancements of the PS3 over the PS2. And Rising standards for games is also significant. If you released a no-brainer like pong for the snes im sure back then it wouldnt be a big hit.



    SO you didnt notice a couple of rpgs, a action/adventure game, a fps, a fighting game, and an open world rpg?
    As i said before, the newer games do all those genres better than the older games. I had justification too. So It wasnt relevant. Platformers are the only relevant genre. Though its hard to grasp what is relevant when you wander off from the point all the time.




    Yeah, like once you start getting to higher levels, or if you really trick out on materia.
    Are you trying to make excuses for that one flaw i pointed out in FF7? It is such an obvious flaw and to see you try to defend it is mind-blowing.
    Last edited by /Aifa|; 01-16-2009 at 10:05 PM.

  23. #23
    Member Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai has a reputation beyond repute Ai no nai's Avatar
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    Default new old games

    I love the new games that continue off the old. For instance metal gear solid. If youv played the first few and have been fans you appreciate that the 4th rocked so much.
    What im saying is that old games that were great always continue to make even better games
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    Now here I go. Shining Finger!!!!

  24. #24
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    Dont refer to sales of games back in 1995 because that does not tell us what people are playing today.
    Then dont refer to sales period. You can't say a game is better because it came out 2 weeks ago and is selling better than a game that came out 10 years ago.
    Also, HL2 is not dated. Especially not in this debate. Dont try and tell me that a 2004 masterpiece based on new-age technology still being used today is in the same category as the classics of the snes era.
    If youve been paying attention ive distinguished old games and new games by saying old games are the ones based on old 2D technology. Which makes sense because all along people in this thread have referred to old games as pre 1997, pacman, etc.
    Whatever standard your setting up is flawed. If graphics and music quality etc are so important than anything from last generation should be considered dated. The only reason people are saying the 1997 thing is because the OP set that as the mark for the "poll".

    Also, you are wrong about online playability not being important. Today, it is a big factor in deciding how good a game is to play. Not to mention there are games like WoW which are completely devoted to online gaming. And Even grandparents know about WoW.
    First off I never said it was not important, and I did say it was basically required. But, it dosent actually make the game itself better. Also, you can't even compare online games to anything that you would consider old.
    The question in the thread was simple. Do you enjoy old games more or new games? Today, would you rather drive a 1993 honda civic or a 2009 honda civic?
    This is a terrible example. I know nothing about cars, almost. I do know that some old cars look great and a lot of people would kill for one.

    Its a simple question. The only reason why there is any debate is because plenty of people including myself enjoy the odd 2D RPG now and then. But if i were to pick today between new games and old games i would gladly choose new games for many reasons. And that was the topic.
    Fine, but dont go saying new games are always superior to older games just because you like newer games better.
    Since you have always avoided arguing with me in the big picture and since you have always wandered off track by pulling yourself away with little details, i am lead to believe that thinking in the big picture is not for you.
    You've basically tried to make one point the whole time, that because of a "higher standard" that new games are better. You're eating the onion before peeling it.
    Again, you made a point which you didnt justify. Replay value is actually higher in modern games. Back in the day, you finish your single-player game, and that was it. You were lucky to play that game with any friends assuming it supported it. Today, you finish your single-player game, you can then hop online to play people all over the country,
    All online play does is give you an endless supply of friend. The players add the replay value not the game itself.
    you can embrace the modding community and modify the game, or you can download extra content from the developer.
    Adding new content does not constitute replay, since it's new.

    Clearly, newer games offer more replay value. When it comes to story and appeal, are you seriously convinced that the old Metal Gear has more of that than the new MGS4?
    I've never played MGS or MGS4, I have played 2 and 3. But even so, you cant chose probably a pair of games that fits your argument well and use it as the basis for every single game.

    You try to dismiss technology and gaming standards and say that the only important things are story, appeal, etc. You then say that story, appeal, etc has been the same for old and new games so therefore they are on even ground.
    So do books or movies get better? If story can get better than books have to get better to, same with movies, or even tv. Why is it that so many times people pick up old books, or "old" movies or something and think that it's awesome.

    But that only makes you ignorant in the public eye. There is a reason why the success of FF games is also attributed to cutting-edge graphics, FMVs, and improvements over each predecessor. Every sequel is expected to improve on its predecessor. If you wrote reviews for games today based on your basic criteria you would be questioned by the gamers.
    So I'm supposed to give ffxii extremely high marks because it simply looks pretty? Sure it's graphically stunning for a ps2 title, but anyone who played it would account for several major flaws in the game. Every sequel is expected to improve, but not every sequal does.

    technological advancement is significant in the gaming community. People knew the technological advancements of the SNES over the NES. And today, people know the advancements of the PS3 over the PS2. And Rising standards for games is also significant. If you released a no-brainer like pong for the snes im sure back then it wouldnt be a big hit.
    Obviously people know about it, but you can't compare a generation of games like pongs and compare it to now. At least compare it to a game that has a story, characters, music, replay, playability, etc.

    As i said before, the newer games do all those genres better than the older games. I had justification too. So It wasnt relevant. Platformers are the only relevant genre. Though its hard to grasp what is relevant when you wander off from the point all the time.
    But you can only come up with some very easy examples of games that are forced to build off each other. If new games did everything but platformers better then every new good game would be considered a masterpiece, since obviously Castlevania 64 is sooo much better than castlevania 3.
    Are you trying to make excuses for that one flaw i pointed out in FF7? It is such an obvious flaw and to see you try to defend it is mind-blowing.
    Call it a flaw if you want. But, the flaw did not exist in older FF games. Yes, older.

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    Then dont refer to sales period. You can't say a game is better because it came out 2 weeks ago and is selling better than a game that came out 10 years ago.
    Sigh, this is a hopeless argument. I used fallout 3's recent sales of 4.7 million units to say that at least 4.7 million people are playing new games today based on one game alone. I made that clear previously. I even stated again how im not comparing the quality of games back then and now. If you wander off track again and try to interpret me as saying 'fallout 3 is better than older games' then youre doing exactly what i accuse you of doing.


    Anyways, sorry but i didnt read anything after that quote. I have a bit of a temper these days and this has now become frustrating so its not worth it. Ive asked twice for a simple, concise, and relevant response and i never got one. I think thats the least i deserved when you approached me with a big argument. This is now like a very long argument where in the end you forget about what youre arguing about in the first place but you just want to be right about something. So lets not waste each other's time anymore. I dont even know you and you dont know me. If i have insulted you in any personal way then i apologise for that. I wont talk to you anymore and im sure you wont bother with me anymore. You are right, and I am right. Have a good day.
    Last edited by /Aifa|; 01-17-2009 at 01:18 PM.

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