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Thread: Spoilers Warning: Code Geass friends to foes

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Spoilers Warning: Code Geass friends to foes

    Hello.
    I want to know what you guys think about the friend-turned-foe relationship between Lelouch and Suzaku.
    They have been such great friends since young, but as soon as Suzaku discovered Lelouch was actually Zero who kiled Euphemia, he totally turned against him, to the extent of shooting him.
    But then again, he cried when he had to kill Lelouch in the end.

    So do you think Suzaku had ever really turned to hate Lelouch after he killed Euphemia?
    Or had that lingering feeling of friendship always been deep down in Suzaku's heart despite Zeros actions?


    I personally find it extremely sad that it had to turn out this way cos' Lelouch had always regarded Suzaku as his first friend even when he knew Suzaku was piloting Lancelot against him, and he even entrusted the job of killing him to Suzaku with a smile.

    Do tell me what you think.

  2. #2
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    I think that it is very sad that Lelouch murdered the best person in the world of Code Geass. I don't see why you care about anything which happens after Euphemia's murder, since that was the worst thing that could possibly happen.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-20-2009 at 02:46 PM.

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    I think Lelouch should of used another geass saying forget the command then let her run off and kill some people.
    A human bitten by pureblood vampires turn into vampires themselves. When that happens, there can be only one of two results, Their blood becomes toxic and die, or slowly suffering the pain of transforming into a vampire. Other vampires don't possess this dark power that purebloods have. I respect his strength of will, he was only a human, yet he resisted the powerful vampire instinct for four years. ~ Kaname Kuran,



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    Junior Member tommyhales has a little shameless behaviour in the past tommyhales's Avatar
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    lol u got this all wrong yes he hates zero but lelouch is still his best freind so wile he plays around as zero he will try to kill him but when he is lelouch they are best freinds and they both have commen intests the younger sister

  5. #5
    the day dreaming voyager little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine has a reputation beyond repute little miss sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyhales View Post
    lol u got this all wrong yes he hates zero but lelouch is still his best freind so wile he plays around as zero he will try to kill him but when he is lelouch they are best freinds and they both have commen intests the younger sister
    True.
    But don't you think it's impossible that Suzaku can still call Lelouch a best friend after he killed someone he loves? Wanting to kill Zero would be one thing, but since Suzaku knows Zero=Lelouch, would it make a diff if he killed Lelouch when Lelouch isn't acting as Zero?

    To Havoc and Beyond!

  6. #6
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    Their relationship was the only thing (apart from Rolo, Jeremiah and Sayoko) that kept my interest in the trainwreck that was R2.

    That being said, I don't think that during the last episodes were they worked together they considered themselves as "best friends". It was impossible to go back and be like they used to. Euphemia's death is just... so deep and a no-no forgiving matter between them. Even if it was an accident.

    Nonetheless, it doesn't matter that a friend wronged you in some way or another, it's painful to let go and forget. Suzaku's tears at the end when he had to kill Lelouch were perfectly normal. I would have been worried if hand't cried.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AkiraRayneRyuu View Post
    I think Lelouch should of used another geass saying forget the command then let her run off and kill some people.
    I;m not sure what you mean. Actually lelouch did let Euphie run off and kill some people, since he failed to stop her from getting out of the command vehicle. I guess he was too surprised to react quickly If he had managed to grab Euphemia and tie her up, things could have been b far different. He couldn't give her another geas command, but if he talked fast heough he might have persuaded her get into his Gawain or walk into a closet or something he could have locked her in while thinking aof a better plan. Lelouch always thought faster when trying to kill people than save them. [/quote]

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    I;m not sure what you mean. Actually lelouch did let Euphie run off and kill some people, since he failed to stop her from getting out of the command vehicle. I guess he was too surprised to react quickly If he had managed to grab Euphemia and tie her up, things could have been b far different. He couldn't give her another geas command, but if he talked fast heough he might have persuaded her get into his Gawain or walk into a closet or something he could have locked her in while thinking aof a better plan. Lelouch always thought faster when trying to kill people than save them.
    [/quote]
    you cant undo a geass and it only works once per person, Not true in season two though.

  9. #9
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    you cant undo a geass and it only works once per person, Not true in season two though.
    Not true in season 2?
    When did he use Geass on someone twice?
    I can't seem to recall.

    To Havoc and Beyond!

  10. #10
    Senior Member blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by little miss sunshine View Post
    Not true in season 2?
    When did he use Geass on someone twice?
    I can't seem to recall.
    Shirly. he use it twice on her because orange-kun caneled it. However Luleuch last command ordering her her not to die didnt work.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackrosetwilight View Post
    Shirly. he use it twice on her because orange-kun caneled it. However Luleuch last command ordering her her not to die didnt work.
    When did he use Geass on her for a second time since the first season besides the one ordering her not to die?

    To Havoc and Beyond!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko has a reputation beyond repute Luluko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by little miss sunshine View Post
    When did he use Geass on her for a second time since the first season besides the one ordering her not to die?
    It was after Jeremiah used his Geass Canceler on her. While she was dying, Lelouch tried to Geass her to live, you can see that her eyes glow in the way they do when the order is received. But it was imposible due to the seriousness of her wound, in her state she couldn't follow the command.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luluko View Post
    It was after Jeremiah used his Geass Canceler on her. While she was dying, Lelouch tried to Geass her to live, you can see that her eyes glow in the way they do when the order is received. But it was imposible due to the seriousness of her wound, in her state she couldn't follow the command.
    That was one of the saddest part in season 2 it was also the first time his geass trully failed to do anything and the time he needed it most, which was diffrent for Euphy when it activated when he didnt want it to and then she went on a killing spree forcing lelouch to kill her.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackrosetwilight View Post
    That was one of the saddest part in season 2 it was also the first time his geass trully failed to do anything and the time he needed it most, which was diffrent for Euphy when it activated when he didnt want it to and then she went on a killing spree forcing lelouch to kill her.
    Lelouch was not forced to kill Euphemia. The geass command to kill the Japanese made it necessary to kill her OR capture her and keep her prisoner until the danger was over because the geass wore off, or she died, or the Japanese all decided to become Wa people instead of Japanese, or the Japanese all died of a terrible plague, or whatever. If Euphemia was commanded to kill the Japanese in the stadium she would soon be unable to tell which Japanese she met had been in the stadium.
    Euphemia was the equivalent of an insane killer. And the proper procedure with insane killers is to capture them alive if it can be done with no danger to the police officers or civilians, and only kill them if it is necessary to prevent them from killing an innocent person RIGHT NOW.
    When Lelouch shot Euphemia she was not pointing a bazooka at a school bus full of children who had arrived late and didn't know what had happened, she was not aiming her machine gun at a Japanese faimily trapped in a corner, and she was not entering the command codes on a super scientific device that would kill all the non-Britannians within a radius of five miles. She was not about to kill anyone. She was talking to Lelouch/Zero.
    When Lelouch destroyed Euphemia's nightmare and she crawled out of the wreckage he could have picked her up in the hand of his nightmare and put her in the hatch and tied her up and she could have been restrained for the rest of her life if necessary.
    Lelluch got out of the safety of his nightmare and walked up to Euphemia, who recognized Zero as her brother Lelouch in disguise and gave him a friendly greeting. Lelouch seemed to get within touching distance without Euphemia making any hostile moves. Lelouch could have shot Euphemia in the arm or the leg, or punched her in the jaw or the stomach, and captured her. He could have invited her into his nightmare where Lelouch and CC could have tied her up, ending all danger from her.
    Instead he walked past her, confident she wouldn't shoot him in the back, turned and pointed his gun at her (for the fifth time), aimed not at her arm or leg but at her torso packed with vital organs, and pulled the trigger. Lelouch was not forced to do any of those things. He chose to do those things.
    Code Geass fans may think that it was necessary to kill Euphemia, and even the creators of Code Geass might officialy decree that it was necessary for Lelouch to kill Euphemia, but that does not make it necessary for Lelouch to kill Euphemia according to the laws of ethical conduct which apply in the real world, the laws that any decent hero should follow. Lelouch murdered Euphemia. [/quote]

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luluko View Post
    Their relationship was the only thing (apart from Rolo, Jeremiah and Sayoko) that kept my interest in the trainwreck that was R2.

    That being said, I don't think that during the last episodes were they worked together they considered themselves as "best friends". It was impossible to go back and be like they used to. Euphemia's death is just... so deep and a no-no forgiving matter between them. Even if it was an accident.

    Nonetheless, it doesn't matter that a friend wronged you in some way or another, it's painful to let go and forget. Suzaku's tears at the end when he had to kill Lelouch were perfectly normal. I would have been worried if hand't cried.
    Why do you say that Euphemia's death was an accident? it was not an inevitable result of the accidental geas command. It was not even a necessary result of the geas command in order to save Japanese lives. If captured, euphemia could have been locked up for the rest of her life if necessary and not been dangerous to anyone.
    Lelouch passed up several chances to capture Euphemia. He could have grabbed her in the hand of his nightmare. He walked past her within touching distance, where he could have shot her in the arm or leg or punched her in the jaw or stomach and captured her. Or he could have invited her into his nightmare where he and CC could have tied her up.
    Lelouch walked away from Euphemia, with his back to her, confident that she loved and trusted him enough not to shoot him in the back (or else that her machine gun was unloaded), turned around, and without warning pointed his gun at her (for the fifth time) aimed not at an arm or leg but at her torso packed with vital organs, and pulled the trigger.
    That doesn't seem like an accident to me. That seems like deliberate murder [/quote]

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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Why do you say that Euphemia's death was an accident? it was not an inevitable result of the accidental geas command. It was not even a necessary result of the geas command in order to save Japanese lives. If captured, euphemia could have been locked up for the rest of her life if necessary and not been dangerous to anyone.
    Lelouch passed up several chances to capture Euphemia. He could have grabbed her in the hand of his nightmare. He walked past her within touching distance, where he could have shot her in the arm or leg or punched her in the jaw or stomach and captured her. Or he could have invited her into his nightmare where he and CC could have tied her up.
    Lelouch walked away from Euphemia, with his back to her, confident that she loved and trusted him enough not to shoot him in the back (or else that her machine gun was unloaded), turned around, and without warning pointed his gun at her (for the fifth time) aimed not at an arm or leg but at her torso packed with vital organs, and pulled the trigger.
    That doesn't seem like an accident to me. That seems like deliberate murder
    It was an accident because he didn't meand to give her that order. And up until then that wasn't a way to reverse a Geass.

    And yes, I'm pretty sure Euphemia would've lived happily trapped somewhere in Britannia and unable to be with Suzaku.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luluko View Post
    It was an accident because he didn't meand to give her that order. And up until then that wasn't a way to reverse a Geass.

    And yes, I'm pretty sure Euphemia would've lived happily trapped somewhere in Britannia and unable to be with Suzaku.
    Giving her the order was an accident. How Lelouch reacted to that accident was his choice.

    The geass command turned Euphie into the equivalent of an insane mad dog psycho killer. And what do the police do with insane mad dog psycho killers?
    They shoot them, when those killers are about to kill some innocent person, or when those killers are about to somehow get out of sight of the police, like by dropping down a manhole into the sewers to emerge at an unpredictiable location.
    But they don't shoot insane mad dog psycho killers when they are not, at the moment, actively endangering people.
    They don't shoot mad dog psycho killers who are talking calmly with police officers.
    They don't shoot mad dog psycho killers who let police officers get within touching distances without threatening them and who can be easily captured alive with no danger to the police officers or innocent bystanders.
    No police officer would ever shoot an insane mad dog psycho killer if he felt safe enough with him to turn his back on him as Lelouch did with Euphie.

    How would you feel if your best friend got high on her brother's drugs and believed every one was controlled by aliens, and went on a killing spree? And if her brother talked to her, and calmed her down, and got close enough to shoot her in the arm or leg, or punch her in the jaw or stomach, and capture her, or maybe sweet talk her into surrendering to those nice police officers who have been freed of alien control. And instead he shot her down without warning. How would that make you feel? And how would your best friend feel if you showed her this post and told her that you still support what Lelouch did to Euphie?

    And how do you think the families of insane mad dog psycho killers who have been killed by the police feel when
    they see movies or tv shows like Code Geass? Shows where the hero kills an insane mad dog psycho killer who he could have captured alive with no danger. Maybe they wonder if the police who killed their loved one saw too many of those movies and tv shows and passed up chances to capture him alive.

    There are hundreds of insane mad dog psycho killers alive today who have been captured by the police, and who are more or less happy in institutions. They eat and drink, work and play, read books and watch tv and interact with the kind or brutal guards, other inmates, and psychiatrists. Their lives are full of little triumphs and defeats, just like the lives of free people.
    And all of them are happier than rotting, decaying corpses would be.

    Euphie would have been far happier trapped somewhere in Britannnia and unable to see Suzaku than as a rotting corpse.
    Do you think she would have been chained to the wall of a dank dungeon, or maybe have a whole castle to live in, or maybe be locked in a padded cell, or maybe have a private island somewhere antipodal to Japan? Who knows?
    And maybe she wouldn't be locked up at all. Maybe the Britannians would say "way to go!" and think that the insanely kind princess had finally wised up and learned the right way to deal with the numbers.
    Maybe she would have been made the viceroy of Area Ten or Area Fifteen or some area that didn't depend on Japanese trade or tourism and would be able to make life better for the numbers there.
    You think that Euphemia and Suzaku found true love, and maybe they did. But perhaps it was just the first teenage romance for both of them, and they would have broken up and found other people. I think that most girls are better off alive and unable to see their boyfriend then dead.

    I think that most defenders of Lelouch use a very melodramatic and unrealistic code of ethics to judge his actions. While I judge them by a code of ethics that I expect real people to follow in real situations.
    Perhaps in such discussions you should say "I think that what (Character X) did was right by melodramatic ethics, though wrong by real world ethics". Or: "I like (Character X) even though any real person who does some of the things he does would be evil". That way you would avoid any suggestion to the readers of your posts that it would be right to behave in real life like (Character X).

    I am getting close to four times the age of you and many other anime fans. I have spent those years watching a lot of tv, reading a lot of newspapers, magazines, and books, and doing a lot of thinking about real and fictional events. Even when I was your age I would never have been naive and melodramatic enough to believe that anyone was better off dead, When I was your age I thought that I understood the world better than any adult and better than any kid my age. And now that I am much older and wiser, I know that I was right. When I was your age I believed that I alone, in all the world. understood the true horror of death, and since then I have become more and more convinced that death is the worst thing possible or imaginable[/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-02-2009 at 03:23 PM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Giving her the order was an accident. How Lelouch reacted to that accident was his choice.

    The geass command turned Euphie into the equivalent of an insane mad dog psycho killer. And what do the police do with insane mad dog psycho killers?
    They shoot them, when those killers are about to kill some innocent person, or when those killers are about to somehow get out of sight of the police, like by dropping down a manhole into the sewers to emerge at an unpredictiable location.
    But they don't shoot insane mad dog psycho killers when they are not, at the moment, actively endangering people.
    They don't shoot mad dog psycho killers who are talking calmly with police officers.
    They don't shoot mad dog psycho killers who let police officers get within touching distances without threatening them and who can be easily captured alive with no danger to the police officers or innocent bystanders.
    No police officer would ever shoot an insane mad dog psycho killer if he felt safe enough with him to turn his back on him as Lelouch did with Euphie.
    Thee ae hundreds of insane mad dog psycho killers alive today who have been captured by the police, and who are more or less happy in institutions. They eat and drink, work and play, read books and watch tv and interact with the kind or brutal guards, other inmates, and psychiatrists. Their lives are full of little triumphs and defeats, just like the lives of free people.
    And all of them are happier than rotting, decaying corpses would be.
    Euphie would have been far happier trapped somewhere in Britannnia and unable to see Suzaku than she would have been as a dead body.
    Do you think she would have been chained to the wall of a dank dungeon, or maybe have a whole castle to live in, or maybe be locked in a padded cell, or maybe have a private island somewhere antepodal to Japan? Who knows?
    And maybe she wouldn't be locked up at all. Maybe the Britannians would say "way to go!" and think that the insanely kind princess had finally wised up and learned the right way to deal with the numbers.
    Maybe she would have been made the viceroy of Area Ten or Area Fifteen or some area that didn't depend on Japanese trade or tourism and would be able to make life better for the numbers there.
    You think that Euphemia and Suzaku found true love, and maybe they did. But perhaps it was just the first teenage romance for both of them, and they would have broken up and found other people. I think that most girls are better off alive and unable to see their boyfriend then dead.
    I think that most defenders of Lelouch use a very dramatic and unrealistic code of ethics to judge his actions. While I judge them by a code of ethics that I expect real pople to follow in real situations.
    [/quote]
    if you want to realistic moral than here one. If your dog got rabies and it was too late to cure it would you shoot that dog before it spreads the rabies to other people? same thing could be applied to what happend to euphy

  19. #19
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    if you want to realistic moral than here one. If your dog got rabies and it was too late to cure it would you shoot that dog before it spreads the rabies to other people? same thing could be applied to what happend to euphy[/quote]

    Rabies is 99.9999 percent fatal. Shooting a rapid animal saves it from a painful death as well as protecting others. But they don't shoot rabid humans. Which is very good for the very few who have supposedly survived it. And Euphemia was certainly the highest and least animalistic of all the Code Geass characters.
    Being geass commanded is not always or usually fatal. And rabies is spread from one animal or person to the next, while Euphy would be able to kill people, not infect them with the compulsion to kill. Thus killing rabid animals breaks the cycle of transmission of rabies. Killing insane killers does not break a cycle of transmission of homicidal mania (homicidal mania is not like Night of the Living Dead zombiism) but merely prevents them from killing, and locking them up works just as well.
    If I was a former insane killer, or a close relative of an insane killer, I would be very distressed by the insistence of Lelouch's defenders that the only thing to do with an insane killer is to kill him or her.
    About four hundred years ago, a two headed circus freak murdered a man in Paris. He was locked up instead of executed because his two heads were two different persons and it was considered evil to kill an innocent person merely to execute a murderer.
    Any insane killer might have his original innocent personality in his body and brain, and any person controlled by the geass should have his or her original personality inside waiting to resume control of the body when the geass task is complete. Killing Euphemia's geass-controlled body would kill her original innocent personality. Thus capturing her alive, which Lelouch could have done easily, would be much better than killing her.[/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-02-2009 at 07:20 PM.

  20. #20
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    if you want to realistic moral than here one. If your dog got rabies and it was too late to cure it would you shoot that dog before it spreads the rabies to other people? same thing could be applied to what happend to euphy

    Rabies is 99.9999 percent fatal. Shooting a rapid animal saves it from a painful death as well as protecting others. But they don't shoot rabid humans. Which is very good for the very few who have supposedly survived it. And Euphemia was certainly the highest and least animalistic of all the Code Geass characters.
    Being geass commanded is not always or usually fatal. And rabies is spread from one animal or person to the next, while Euphy would be able to kill people, not infect them with the compulsion to kill. Thus killing rabid animals breaks the cycle of transmission of rabies. Killing insane killers does not break a cycle of transmission of homicidal mania (homicidal mania is not like Night of the Living Dead zombiism) but merely prevents them from killing, and locking them up works just as well.
    If I was a former insane killer, or a close relative of an insane killer, I would be very distressed by the insistence of Lelouch's defenders that the only thing to do with an insane killer is to kill him or her.
    About four hundred years ago, a two headed circus freak murdered a man in Paris. He was locked up instead of executed because his two heads were two different persons and it was considered evil to kill an innocent person merely to execute a murderer.
    Any insane killer might have his original innocent personality in his body and brain, and any person controlled by the geass should have his or her original personality inside waiting to resume control of the body when the geass task is complete. Killing Euphemia's geass-controlled body would kill her original innocent personality. Thus capturing her alive, which Lelouch could have done easily, would be much better than killing her.
    In most cases, a rabid dog is killed not only because it can spread the disease, but also because it is a threat to the people. Euphemia was not killing people AT THAT MOMENT but she was a threat. If a Japanese person passed by, she would have shot him, no question. When it comes to insane killers, the police do shot to kill when it comes to that situation. They may not be harming anyone at that point, but it is best to neutralize the situation before it gets worse.

    It is true that a person's latent personality is still dormant in their mind while they are under the influence of the Geass. However, it only comes back when the Geass wears off. In Euphemia's case, her Geass was not going to wear off. A Geass ONLY wears off once the command is completed or if the person breaks of their own willpower (Nunnally is the ONLY person who has done this). Euphemia would have to kill all of the Japanese (as per the command given to her) in order for her to be broken out of the Geass. She COULD have been captured but she might have gone insane trying to fulfill the command while restrained or in prison. She would be alive and we could still look at her pretty face while she goes nuts trying to find some Japanese to kill.

    Maybe she could have lived in a happy little castle somewhere and made the Viseroy of some area but you are forgetting one thing: SHE WOULD STILL BE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE GEASS! IT DOES NOT WEAR OFF!!
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  21. #21
    Senior Member blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight has a reputation beyond repute blackrosetwilight's Avatar
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    you know just get over it already. Lelouch wanted to join Euphy but thing just went bad and he had to kill her since he couldnt undo the geass and he needed the japanese people support, so he couldnt let euphy kill them all. It's unfortunate but the lives of all the japanese people out weighed little euphy single life. Beside you gotta give her prop for killing more people than lelouch himself ever could in a single episode.

  22. #22
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackrosetwilight View Post
    you know just get over it already. Lelouch wanted to join Euphy but thing just went bad and he had to kill her since he couldnt undo the geass and he needed the japanese people support, so he couldnt let euphy kill them all. It's unfortunate but the lives of all the japanese people out weighed little euphy single life. Beside you gotta give her prop for killing more people than lelouch himself ever could in a single episode.

    You kind of damn Lelouch with faint praise (or perhaps you should have written a little more clearly) You say that Lelouch couldn't let Euphie kill all the Japanese (actually I member him saying merely "kill the Japanese", with no all) because he needed their support. I think that Lelouch was evil but I wouldn't go so far as saying he didn't care about the Japanese as people but only needed their support.
    As I keep saying Euphie could have been captured alive. Than she could have been kept prisoner. Tied up in Lelouch's Gawain at first, then transferred to the care of the closest batch of non-Japanese Black Knights.
    In the real world people are kept prisoner for months, years, or decades, by family members or by criminals, in makeshift prisons. Armies on the march keep their prisoners marching with them, not even locked up in any kind of building but merely under guard. Lelouch had dozens of giant war robots, thousands of Black knights, and even a submarine as large as an atomic submarine of our world. And yet some fans claim that he didn't have the resources to kieep Euphemia prisoner.
    IF YOU CAN CAPTURE SOMEONE ALIVE WITH NO DANGER TO YOURSELF, AND KEEP THEM FROM HARMING OTHER PEOPLE BY HOLDING THEM PRISONER, YOU MUST DO IT. It is not equally good to kill someone or take them prisoner. It is only permissable to kill someone if you have to do it in order to save lives. Lelouch could have taken Euphie prisoner with no danger to himself or others. He could have held her captive for a hundred years, if necessary, with very litle danger she would escape and kill somone. But instead he chose of his own free will to shoot her without warning. That seems like murder to me. I can't accept Lelouch as any kind of a good person if he committs such a murder.
    So it doesn't matter if the lives of all the Japanese people outweigh Euphie's life (and they might not, since her resistance to the geass indicates that she is probably more than Human). Lelouch could have saved all the Japanese people and Euphie too.
    I don't give Euphie props for killing a lot of people, I give her props for saving a lot of people. Why did the Britannian army evacuate the civilians from Narita, saving their lives when the landslide slammed into the town, which was very different from their slaughters diring the invasion of Japan? I think because Euphemia was at Narita the Britannians had to fight in a civilized and humane way.
    If millions of japanese were killed during the invasion, and millions more would have been killed if Japanan hadn't surrendered so soon, the typical Britannian invasion must have been really brutal. But if Euphemia persuaded Cornelia to plan and execute her invasions with the least amount of civilians deaths possible, millions of lives could have been saved during each invasion. So perhaps Euphemia saved millions of lives.
    And is there any evidence how many people were killed in Clovis's Shinjaku Ghetto Massacre, Cornelia's Saitema Ghetto Massacre, the accidental Fuji Massacre, and Lelouch's geass directorate Masscre? [/quote]

  23. #23
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    In most cases, a rabid dog is killed not only because it can spread the disease, but also because it is a threat to the people. Euphemia was not killing people AT THAT MOMENT but she was a threat. If a Japanese person passed by, she would have shot him, no question. When it comes to insane killers, the police do shot to kill when it comes to that situation. They may not be harming anyone at that point, but it is best to neutralize the situation before it gets worse.

    It is true that a person's latent personality is still dormant in their mind while they are under the influence of the Geass. However, it only comes back when the Geass wears off. In Euphemia's case, her Geass was not going to wear off. A Geass ONLY wears off once the command is completed or if the person breaks of their own willpower (Nunnally is the ONLY person who has done this). Euphemia would have to kill all of the Japanese (as per the command given to her) in order for her to be broken out of the Geass. She COULD have been captured but she might have gone insane trying to fulfill the command while restrained or in prison. She would be alive and we could still look at her pretty face while she goes nuts trying to find some Japanese to kill.

    Maybe she could have lived in a happy little castle somewhere and made the Viseroy of some area but you are forgetting one thing: SHE WOULD STILL BE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE GEASS! IT DOES NOT WEAR OFF!!
    A rabid dog is a threat to people mainly by spreading rabies. It is true that a rabid dog can injure a human so badly that they die long before the disease can get started. But a rabid dog could be confined and cared for like a rabid human. I doubt if any Japanese people would have been passing by when Lelouch was shooting Euphemia. She had been shooting at a crowd of fleeing Japanese when Kallen interrupted her. Why would those Japanese stop running and turn back toward the danger? Lelouch could have picked Euphie up in the hand of his nightmare or else blasted her as soon as she crawled out of the wreckage of her nightmare. But he didn't. So either he didn't see any Japanese peope around or he didn't care if she started shooting at them.
    As I said Lelouch walked up to what seems like touching distance of Euphemia. If he saw anyone she might have started to shoot at he could have shot her in the arm or leg, or punched her in the stomach or jaw, or knocked the gun out of her hand. Was he afraid to try anything because she always beat him at martial arts when they were children?
    He could have asked her to put down the gun and go to his nightmare to discuss things. If she did put down the gun and go to his nightmare she would have been unable to attack anyone she saw on the way and Lelouch could have grabbed her and held her until CC and Kallen came to help restrain her -- unless she always used to clobber him when they practiced martial arts as children.
    Lelouch walked away from her, with his back to her. He wasn't worried about her shooting him in the back or shooting anybody else who might be around. Then he turned around and shot her.
    If Lelouch saw anyone in the area who might have been in danger from Euphemia, he could have captured her or killed her as soon as she crawled out of the wreckage of her nightmare. He could have killed her a little sooner than that by blasting her nightmare with one of his big weapons on the Gawain.
    And even earlier when Lelouch entered the Gawain at the end of episode 22, he should have been fairly close to Euphemia's position and in a super powerful nightmare. He seemed to have a good chance to kill or capture Euphemia. But apparently he didn't or couldn't use that chance.
    So I don't see how capturing Euphemia would have used up a lot of time during which a Japanese might have come into sight and been shot. Lelouch coul have picked her up in one hand of the Gawain and used the other hand to pull any weapons she carried out of her hands many seconds before the time when he did shoot her. Many seconds of great danger to any Japanese who were in sight of Euphemia, so apparently there weren't any. [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-05-2009 at 10:24 PM.

  24. #24
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    You kind of damn Lelouch with faint praise (or perhaps you should have written a little more clearly) You say that Lelouch couldn't let Euphie kill all the Japanese (actually I member him saying merely "kill the Japanese", with no all) because he needed their support. I think that Lelouch was evil but I wouldn't go so far as saying he didn't care about the Japanese as people but only needed their support.
    As I keep saying Euphie could have been captured alive. Than she could have been kept prisoner. Tied up in Lelouch's Gawain at first, then transferred to the care of the closest batch of non-Japanese Black Knights.
    In the real world people are kept prisoner for months, years, or decades, by family members or by criminals, in makeshift prisons. Armies on the march keep their prisoners marching with them, not even locked up in any kind of building but merely under guard. Lelouch had dozens of giant war robots, thousands of Black knights, and even a submarine as large as an atomic submarine of our world. And yet some fans claim that he didn't have the resources to kieep Euphemia prisoner.
    IF YOU CAN CAPTURE SOMEONE ALIVE WITH NO DANGER TO YOURSELF, AND KEEP THEM FROM HARMING OTHER PEOPLE BY HOLDING THEM PRISONER, YOU MUST DO IT. It is not equally good to kill someone or take them prisoner. It is only permissable to kill someone if you have to do it in order to save lives. Lelouch could have taken Euphie prisoner with no danger to himself or others. He could have held her captive for a hundred years, if necessary, with very litle danger she would escape and kill somone. But instead he chose of his own free will to shoot her without warning. That seems like murder to me. I can't accept Lelouch as any kind of a good person if he committs such a murder.
    So it doesn't matter if the lives of all the Japanese people outweigh Euphie's life (and they might not, since her resistance to the geass indicates that she is probably more than Human). Lelouch could have saved all the Japanese people and Euphie too.
    I don't give Euphie props for killing a lot of people, I give her props for saving a lot of people. Why did the Britannian army evacuate the civilians from Narita, saving their lives when the landslide slammed into the town, which was very different from their slaughters diring the invasion of Japan? I think because Euphemia was at Narita the Britannians had to fight in a civilized and humane way.
    If millions of japanese were killed during the invasion, and millions more would have been killed if Japanan hadn't surrendered so soon, the typical Britannian invasion must have been really brutal. But if Euphemia persuaded Cornelia to plan and execute her invasions with the least amount of civilians deaths possible, millions of lives could have been saved during each invasion. So perhaps Euphemia saved millions of lives.
    And is there any evidence how many people were killed in Clovis's Shinjaku Ghetto Massacre, Cornelia's Saitema Ghetto Massacre, the accidental Fuji Massacre, and Lelouch's geass directorate Masscre?
    You are not getting it, are you? I don't think anyone is praising Lelouch for killing his half-sister. However, Lelouch (in case you haven't noticed) is a person who will use any means to get to the desired end. Since he accidentally used his Geass on her and caused her to massacre many Japanese people, he decided to use it to his advantage (and yes, Euphemia would have to be DEAD in order for this to work). He didn't really care about her circumstances when he planned to have her shot him, so he barely cared about fatally shotting her (he didn't want to do it, even regretted it, but he did it really quickly).

    And you keep saying that he could have taken her prisoner. But then what? Keep her in a prison cell for the rest of her life while she goes insane trying to find some Japanese to kill? If she is kept around the Black Knights, an organization FULL of Japanese, she is going to go nuts. And you said she should be watched over by the non-Japanese members of the Black Knights. Are you even aware how many non-Japanese members of the Black Knights there are? Three. There are only 3 (not counting the ones they meet later). Lelouch, Diethard and Rakshatta. They are the only ones. Kallen may count but she is still half-Japanese. And they all have better things to do than watch over a crazy princess (who would be better off dead than screaming like a foaming nutcase while she tries desperately hard trying to kill people). Plus, keeping her around while she has a blood lust for Japanese would not be the best idea. Having her surrounded by guns, other weapons, disguises and Knightmares (yes, Euphemia can pilot a Knightmare) while she wants to kill people...yeah, not smart.

    As I have said over and over and over again, by the rules of the Geass, a command like "kill the Japanese" DOES NOT WEAR OFF!!! UNTIL A COMMAND HAS BEEN COMPLETED, THE GEASS DOES NOT WEAR OFF!! She has to complete the command in order to break the Geass. She apparently did not have the will power (like Nunnally) to break it since she went off to kill some people. Its not clear what, exactly, caused the Geass to halt when she was dying, since the Geass will cease if a person is physically unable to do the task commanded of them (in Euphemia's case, she was unable to kill Suzaku since she was two steps away from death). A Geass command can last years. Suzaku was under Lelouch's "live" command for over a year. And Lelouch and Nunnally were under the influence of Charle's Geass for nearly a decade.

    I am sorry to say (no I am not, Euphemia is cartoon character) that, in situations like Euphemia, the police (or the military for that matter) do not pull any strings with people like her. They are not going to wait until the person is no longer a threat. They are going to take them down before they become EVEN MORE of a threat. Even when Lelouch was with her, SHE WAS STILL A THREAT. She was not a threat to him but if any Japanese were to run by her, she would have killed them in a heartbeat. That makes her a threat. If Britannia got to her, she would have been in trouble. If Lelouch captured her, she could have killed some of the Black Knights (again, give the girl come credit; she is naive, not weak; she at least knows how to pilot a Knightmare, so there is no telling what else she knows).
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    In most cases, a rabid dog is killed not only because it can spread the disease, but also because it is a threat to the people. Euphemia was not killing people AT THAT MOMENT but she was a threat. If a Japanese person passed by, she would have shot him, no question. When it comes to insane killers, the police do shot to kill when it comes to that situation. They may not be harming anyone at that point, but it is best to neutralize the situation before it gets worse.

    It is true that a person's latent personality is still dormant in their mind while they are under the influence of the Geass. However, it only comes back when the Geass wears off. In Euphemia's case, her Geass was not going to wear off. A Geass ONLY wears off once the command is completed or if the person breaks of their own willpower (Nunnally is the ONLY person who has done this). Euphemia would have to kill all of the Japanese (as per the command given to her) in order for her to be broken out of the Geass. She COULD have been captured but she might have gone insane trying to fulfill the command while restrained or in prison. She would be alive and we could still look at her pretty face while she goes nuts trying to find some Japanese to kill.

    Maybe she could have lived in a happy little castle somewhere and made the Viseroy of some area but you are forgetting one thing: SHE WOULD STILL BE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE GEASS! IT DOES NOT WEAR OFF!!
    Why do people say that geass does not wear off? Check the article on Canon (fiction) in Wikipedia. The only things that are certainly Code Geass canon are the episodes. And the total time from the first to the last episode is probably about one to two years. Thus there is no evidence, except from sources which may or may not be canon, that any geass command ever lasted more than one or two years before wearing out. If Bob is aged two, nobody can truthfully say "Bob has been in prison for twenty years".
    If Lelouch commanded someone to work steadily at the beginning of the show, by the end of the show that person would have worked for about two thirds (allowing for sleep) of one to two years, or about 9 to 18 moinths.
    And that would have been the maximum known amount of time spent obeying a geass command.
    The girl who marked a cross on the wall may have spend one to ten minutes on average walking to and from the wall and marking the cross. If she did so for one to two years that would be about 365 to 7300 minutes or 6.08 to 121.6 hours, or 0.25 to 5.06 days, actually obeying the geass command.
    I believe that General Darlton may have followed a geass command for about 6 to 24 hours.
    And I don't see how there could be canonical evidence for a geass command getting more than a few hours, or days, or weeks, or months, of effort out of someone.
    Clearly there is no reason to believe that geass commands wear out in less time that the longest known period of actual effort that a person was compelled to do by a geass command. And equally clearly there is no evidence whether someone would keep on obeying a geass command until completion of his task or simply give up when the geass command wore out, at some period beyond the longest known period of geass-compelled effort.
    [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-05-2009 at 10:59 PM.

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