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Thread: Code Geass: Black Knight/White Knight

  1. #51
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    i would choose lelouch, in fact for various reasons

    one is definitely the fact that he's a strategic genius, another is that he has never done anything for himself, it was all for nunally's sake, and some others well

    i thought suzaku was a nice guy as well but then he did the things he did xD

  2. #52
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtdlives View Post
    I would of said Lelouch until he killed Yufie( eventhough it was by accident) so I'm behind Suzaku. If I was Suzaku I would of killed Lelouch right there and then. No 2nd chances. That is Suzaku's one big flaw he isn't willing to go all the way like Lelouch he holds back when it comes to his friends even former friends. I still root for him though.
    Lelouch killed Euphie on purpose. Giving her the geass was an accident, but it didn't make killing her necessary or inevitable. Lelouch could have captured her a'ive and she could have been locked up, possibly for the rest of her life, and never been dangerous to anyone. Lelouch pased up several chances to eithr kill or capture Euphemia. Lelouch was so confident that Euphemia was not dangerous to him that he walked up to her, passed her within touching distance and walked on with his back to her before turning around and shooting her. What kind of person turns his back on a homicidal maniac? One who knows that maniac is not trying to kill him but loves and trusts him.
    ReEmember Lelouch came to the meeting that day planning to start a revolution sparked by Japanese anger at Euphie. Euphemia would have been in great danger of being killed. Lelouch could have come up with a plan to kill the Special Administrative Zone without killing Euphie, but he didn't. If he had come to the meeting with a different plan than start a revolution and kill Euphie then when he accidentally gave her the geass he might have come up with a plan to save her instead of kill her.
    As for Suzaku not killing Lelouch, he was like a cat that brings its human a critter it caught instead of eating it itself. He was thinking of others ahead of himself. He entered the Army in the hope of being killed and escaping his guilt or eventually rising to be important enough to help the Japanese. In twenty, thirty, or forty years. People who say Emperor Charles would never have promoted Suzaku that high forget that Charles, over forty years older, would be long dead by the time Suzaku could expect to reach such a position.
    The first few episodes of code geass convinced Suzaku that Zero's way was wrong and that his way was probably hopeless. Then he met Euphemia and she gave him hope of being able to help the Japanese now instead of in forty years. So when Lelouch shot Euphie it was back to square one for Suzaku and all he had to live for was killing Lelouch/Zero. But if Suzaku was offered a major promotion for bringing in Lelouch alive his sense of duty would force him to accept, and take a few steps forward toward his goal of being able to help the Japanese and give meaning to his life.
    Last edited by proEuphie; 02-22-2009 at 11:21 PM.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron has a reputation beyond repute Leleiron's Avatar
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    I can sympathize with Suzaku but compared to what Lelouch went through...
    I know that some of Suzaku's sad parts (spoiler: Euphemia dieing) are very tragic on Suzaku's part but you can also say the Lelouch was gravely injured by that too...
    I guess that I choose Lelouch out of pity on everything he's been through but I also admire how he it fought with it keeping everything in mind (eg: Nunnally)...


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  4. #54
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leleiron View Post
    I can sympathize with Suzaku but compared to what Lelouch went through...
    I know that some of Suzaku's sad parts (spoiler: Euphemia dieing) are very tragic on Suzaku's part but you can also say the Lelouch was gravely injured by that too...
    I guess that I choose Lelouch out of pity on everything he's been through but I also admire how he it fought with it keeping everything in mind (eg: Nunnally)...
    Who knows what Lelouch or Suzaku or other characters really suffered compared to other characters? Lelouch's main sufferings in his past were the death of Marianne, the wounding of Nunnally, and almost getting killed during the invasion of Japan. Suzaku's main past childhood sufferings were almost getting killed in the invasion of Japan and believing that Lelouch and Nunnally were dead, and killing his father to stop the fighting. Perhaps Lelouch had a bit more innocent childhood victemization since Suzaku did choose to kill his father to save thousands or millions of lives.
    But nobody knows how much they suffered inside during the seven years leading up to the beginning of the series.
    After the series opens a lot of Lelouch's and Suzaku's sufferings were partially self inflicted since they were caused in part by enemies reacting to their moves. If they had chosen differently their enemies would have reacted differently and they would have suffered diferently, and perhaps less.
    I don't see how you can justify Lelouch's rebellions as being done for Nunnally's sake. Were they intended to somehow magically heal Nunnally's conditions or bring her mother back to life? No. And Nunnally had lived a comfortable and safe life for years at Ashford, with no sign of assassins lurking in the bushes. Otherwise Lelouch would have changed their first names and moved to several isolated houses in several lands not rulled by Britannia. Starting revolutions and wars tends to make a lot of enemies. Lelouch had no right to do so until Nunnally was an adult and could give informed consennt for the dangers it might put her in. In fact nobody has a right to fight any war or revolution as long as there is a single child in the world too young to give informed consent to the dangers those wars and revolutions might put him or her in.
    Your reference to Euphemia dieing is an "Euphy-mism". Lelouch murdered her. He killed her when he could have captured her alive with no danger to himself and she could have been confined, for the rest of her life if necessary, with no danger to anyone. Considering how innocent Euphemia's normal self was, that seems to me to be one of the worst murders ever shown on television.
    How did Lelouch suffer for murdering Euphemia? Instead of honoring Euphemia as a goddess whose love for them was so strong she fought against the command to kill them as no human ever could, the Japanese, deceived by lelouch, hated her and accepted Lelouch as their savior.
    It is true that Lelouch shed a tear or two when ordering his men to kill Euphemia, and he later briefly seemed a bit depressed. But compared to the reactions of normal persons who kill someone, whether justly or unjustly, his regret seems rather muted.
    A few days later Lelouch was captured and his memories of his real life, including killing Euphemia, were supressed, and he want back to living the comfortable life of a high school student for a year, and he was happier than Suzaku, and infinitly happier than poor little Euphie, dead and possibly buried.
    When his memories were restored he went back to plotting revolution and revenge. He thought of Euphemia with regret a few times, And Cornelia, Suzku, and Nina caused him some trouble because they still loved her. But that hardly seems to compare with Suzaku's grief.
    [/quote]

  5. #55
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    You keep saying that Lelouch could have just captured Euphemia and tied her up somewhere versus shooting her. Sure she would be alive, but she would have constant thoughts of killing Japanese for the rest of her live and would most likely perish in madness. While she was on her deathbed, she had thoughts of killing Suzaku after realizing that he was Japanese. A command like "kill all the Japanese" is not a command that wears off, according to the rules of Geass. This type of command is not an eternal command (like Lelouch's command for Suzaku to live) but it will not wear off until all Japanese are effectively killed (which is not something that is likely to happen).

    Of course, one thing you seem to forget is the fact that Lelouch hates his half-siblings. He hates Clovis, he hates Cornelia, he hates Schneizel and he hates Euphemia. Now, he eventually develops feeling for her but he is not above using his own siblings, including Nunnally, for he own means. The very first thing he was going to do when he met with Euphemia in episode 22 was to have her shoot him to make him look like a martyr. There was nothing that Euphemia or Lelouch could say that could explain this happining. Lelouch could have blamed demons or even Charles but that wouldn't make sence to the people. Demons is too out of the ordinary and putting the blame on Charles would not have done anything. Euphemia was mentally stable and (as far as we know) did not have to much ill will towards her father. She did not have any need to, so the excuse that she went mad under the influence of Charles would not make any sence. Lelouch hate has father for many reasons:
    1. Calm after the death of his mother
    2. Took away Nunnally's eyesight with his Geass
    3. Was indirectly involved with the death of Marianne (and therefore the crippling of Nunnally)
    4. Used Lelouch and Nunnally as political hostages in Japan
    5. Invaded Japan, even knowing that this put his children in extreme danger and dissolved any protection they would have had
    6. Forced Lelouch and Nunnally into hiding
    And that was before Lelouch found out about the Sword of Akasha.
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  6. #56
    Senior Member ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy has a reputation beyond repute ichimoku_fanboy's Avatar
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    although lelouche was simply using the Black Knights and the Japanese people as a whole to be as big a pain in the *** to his father as possible, i agree with his efforts...

    he was actaully helping the world by being a huge pain for Brittania with the very limited resources and manpower Japan could muster, possibly if he was exiled to a different area, he prbly would have won the rebellion, but on the flip side he could have equally lost it just as fast...

    yes Suzaku was born Japanese, but he certainly didnt support his people nearly to the extent as an exiled Brittanian did, its actually kinda ironic, a japanese is fighting for Brit. and a Brittanian is fighting for Japan, its kind of an oxymoron XD

    but overall Lelouche was willing to discard personal values to win, and Suzaku repeatedly let his personal vendettas and beliefs get in the way of his duty, in fact if Zero hadnt commanded him to live, he wouldnt have survived to kill Lelouche...


  7. #57
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ichimoku_fanboy View Post
    although lelouche was simply using the Black Knights and the Japanese people as a whole to be as big a pain in the *** to his father as possible, i agree with his efforts...

    he was actaully helping the world by being a huge pain for Brittania with the very limited resources and manpower Japan could muster, possibly if he was exiled to a different area, he prbly would have won the rebellion, but on the flip side he could have equally lost it just as fast...

    yes Suzaku was born Japanese, but he certainly didnt support his people nearly to the extent as an exiled Brittanian did, its actually kinda ironic, a japanese is fighting for Brit. and a Brittanian is fighting for Japan, its kind of an oxymoron XD

    but overall Lelouche was willing to discard personal values to win, and Suzaku repeatedly let his personal vendettas and beliefs get in the way of his duty, in fact if Zero hadnt commanded him to live, he wouldnt have survived to kill Lelouche...
    *sigh*

    You do realize, of course, that Lelouch and Suzaku were working together for a good part if the series right? The Zero Requiem was something that was planned out between Lelouch, Suzaku and C.C a long time ago: to have as much hatred put on Zero as possible, so that when he revealed himself as Lelouch, that hatred would be focused on him. Once Zero (as Suzaku) killed him, the people would focus on recontruction and coming together (since Lelouch was a threat to everyone).

    To the Japanese, Suzaku was a traitor but he had valid points. Japan would not have survived the Britannian invasion. Period. They would have got their butt wiped and their country destroyed versus being taken over (Britannia did not destroy Japan; they wanted Japan for the Sakuradite, so they didn't want to destroy it). Suzaku knew this and Lelouch even told him that Suzaku made the right "decision" to shot his father. Japan was not in a position to resist a large empire like Britannia.

    Yes, Lelouch was willing to throw away some values, but he threw away such values like caring for his friends, family and the people who follow him. He could care less about his friends if they got in his way. He hated most of his family and was willing to kill his closest siblings to achieve what he wanted (killed Euphemia, took Cornelia prisoner, was willing to kill Nunnally if it came down to it). He was willing to start as a massacre in Shinjuku just to prove a point!

    Suzaku was blinded at some points by his own issues but he had good reasons to be. Killing his father, watching the woman he cared the most about get shot by his enemy, watching his enemy use his followers like pawns, finding out that his best friend IS his enemy. Suzaku has many reasons to be pissed off.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+ has a reputation beyond repute +Namiko+'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    You say that both Lelouch and Suzaku are guilty of murder, but peaceful situations came of them. If You think a peaceful situation came of Lelouch's murdering Euphemia, how? It is true that was a fool proof way of preventing Euphie from distrubing the peace in the future, but if locked up she would be no more likely to kill someone that you are, probably less so. Should you be killed to prevent the possibility you might kill somone?
    And Lelouch could have achieved a more peaceful revolution by capturing Euphemia and forcing Cornelia to surrender to him to save her. IN "Black KKnight" Lelouch said that Euphemia was Cornelia's weakenss, but he threw away that weakness for no good reason.
    [/quote]

    Ok I get it, you're ticked about Euphie. Ok? I understand what you're saying, but posting the same thing 3 times in a row is helping no one. I understand that you don't agree with me, but pleas get it out all at once or wait for more posts. ^^ Please and Thankyou

    I dont agree withEVERYTHING that Lulu does, but he evolved as a person and I dont know if you just missed the regret and love he felt for Euphie?

    Ok, I'll stop now.


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  9. #59
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    i'd go with the black knights.

  10. #60
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    You keep saying that Lelouch could have just captured Euphemia and tied her up somewhere versus shooting her. Sure she would be alive, but she would have constant thoughts of killing Japanese for the rest of her live and would most likely perish in madness. While she was on her deathbed, she had thoughts of killing Suzaku after realizing that he was Japanese. A command like "kill all the Japanese" is not a command that wears off, according to the rules of Geass. This type of command is not an eternal command (like Lelouch's command for Suzaku to live) but it will not wear off until all Japanese are effectively killed (which is not something that is likely to happen).

    Of course, one thing you seem to forget is the fact that Lelouch hates his half-siblings. He hates Clovis, he hates Cornelia, he hates Schneizel and he hates Euphemia. Now, he eventually develops feeling for her but he is not above using his own siblings, including Nunnally, for he own means. The very first thing he was going to do when he met with Euphemia in episode 22 was to have her shoot him to make him look like a martyr. There was nothing that Euphemia or Lelouch could say that could explain this happining. Lelouch could have blamed demons or even Charles but that wouldn't make sence to the people. Demons is too out of the ordinary and putting the blame on Charles would not have done anything. Euphemia was mentally stable and (as far as we know) did not have to much ill will towards her father. She did not have any need to, so the excuse that she went mad under the influence of Charles would not make any sence. Lelouch hate has father for many reasons:
    1. Calm after the death of his mother
    2. Took away Nunnally's eyesight with his Geass
    3. Was indirectly involved with the death of Marianne (and therefore the crippling of Nunnally)
    4. Used Lelouch and Nunnally as political hostages in Japan
    5. Invaded Japan, even knowing that this put his children in extreme danger and dissolved any protection they would have had
    6. Forced Lelouch and Nunnally into hiding
    And that was before Lelouch found out about the Sword of Akasha.
    Considering your quotation about enjoying madness you certainly make a big deal about Euphemia possibly going insane. Some forms of insanity can be pleasant. And some insanity can be cured.
    And why do you say that Euphemia was commanded to kill "all" the Japanese? Is that an exact quote? I thought It was "kill the Japanese" -- a minor point to someone in the stadium but it could be important.
    And is that all the Japanese everywhere or all the Japanese in the SAZ?
    I think that it is amazing that Lelouch manages to get anything done with the often imprecise geass orders he gives. There must be a lot of interpitation of those orders done by somebody or something.
    Why do you assume that Euphemia would be doomed to obey the geass forever, when all the evidence about Lelouch's form of geass comes from a period of less than two years of fictional time? How can Suzaku's geass command be called eternal, if all of the evidence about it comes from a period of less than two years?
    Didn't Suzaku's geass to survive fail to control him in episode 20 when he was about to give up and die? And Lelouch saw hm fighting bravely in that episode. Isn't facing danger in battle a violation of a command to survive?
    So Suzaku's command to survive affected hm strongly at first but a few days later failed to have any visible effect. And then it strangely recurred the next year, though at much lesser strength. It never forced him to resign from the military, become a health food nut, kidnap a bunch of people with compatable organs as possible donors, build an earthquake and fire proof house, etc. etc. as he would have done if the command to survive dominated him. And he would never have fought bravely again if it totally controlled him.
    So maybe Euphema would have gone on a killing rampage for a few hours or days and then seemed perfectly normal for weeks or months before feeling another, weaker, urge to kill Japanese. Probably every time she was released and certified as totally cured she and Suzaku would go on a date and it would start up and she would have to be rushed back to the asylum.
    Except that since Euphemia resisted her geass at first it is possible that her cycle would have been much shorter than Suzaku's. Perhaps by the time Lelouch caught up with her she was already alternating between her normal self and the geass control. She greeted Kallen as the girl from the island instead of merely noting "non Japanese". Later she apolgized to lelouch/Zero for mistaking him for a Japanese, so she knew at that point that she was killing Japanese. And soon after she asked him to assist her in administering the sAZ, which would be unecessary if she remembered depopulating it. And when she asked Lelouch why he shot her she obviously didn't remember doing anything to harm those that Zero protected. So she seems to have been pretty much out of the control of the geass at that point. Asking if Suzaku was Japanese could be due to hear normal self weakening and the geass regaining control for a brief moment.
    Anyway, Lelouch should have expected her to return to normal in few days if Suzaku was a good example.
    You say that hating someone makes killing them more justified? Anyway, as far we know Lelouch only hates Euphemia for being her father's daughter, not for anything she might have done to annoy him when they were nine. And Euphemia keeps Zero's identity and later address a secret. She clearly still loves Lelouch and Nunnally and wants to be part of their faimily again.
    I believe the point of the zero Requiem was to make Lelouch the target of all the hate in the world so all the hate would be gone once Lelouch died. So making Euphemia hated and then killing her would waste all the lovely hatred which could have been directed against Britannnia and Emperor Charles.
    Popular ideas to explain why someone is not guilty of willing the actions of their body include demonic possession, brainwashing, hypnotism, drugs, brain control implants, and insanity. Some of them should have been acceptable to the Japanese crowd to explain why they shouldn't waste any hatred on Euphemia. Instead they should hate the soldiers who obeyed the massacre order as well as earlier massacre orders from Clovis and Cornelia, and the policies of Emperor Charles who trained the soldiers to obey every order no matter how evil it was. And I think the crowd, who probably remember that Lelouch and Nunnally were sacrified by their father, would believe that Charles or other Britannians might use some kind of mind control on Euphemia to sabotage her plan for the SAZ. If Lelouch included himself among those other Britannians it would be true after all. [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-19-2009 at 10:07 PM.

  11. #61
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    I think even though Lelouch is similar to Light(I hate light) for some weird reason I will alway side with Lelouch.
    'If you love something let it go. If it comes back, It's yours.'

  12. #62
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Considering your quotation about enjoying madness you certainly make a big deal about Euphemia possibly going insane. Some forms of insanity can be pleasant. And some insanity can be cured.
    And why do you say that Euphemia was commanded to kill "all" the Japanese? Is that an exact quote? I thought It was "kill the Japanese" -- a minor point to someone in the stadium but it could be important.
    And is that all the Japanese everywhere or all the Japanese in the SAZ?
    I think that it is amazing that Lelouch mananges to get anything done with the often imprecise geass orders he gives. There must be a lot of interpetation of those orders done by somebody or something.
    Why do you assume that Euphemia would be doomed to obey the geass forever, when all the evidence about Lelouch's form of geass comes from a period of less than two years of fictional time? How can Suzaku's geass command be called eternal, if all of the evidence about it comes from a period of less than two years?
    Didn't Suzaku's geass to survive fail to control him in episode 20 when he was about to give up and die? And Lelouch saw hm fighting bravely in that episode. Isn't facing danger in battle a violation of a command to survive?
    So Suzaku's command to survive affected hm strongly at first but a few days later failed to have any visible effect. And then it strangely recurred the next year, though at much lesser strength. It never forced him to resign from the military, become a health food nut, kidnap a bunch of people with compatable organs as possible donors, build an earthquake and fire proof house, etc. etc. as he would have done if the command to survive dominated him. And he would never have fought bravely again if it totally controlled him.
    So maybe Euphema would have gone on a killing rampage for a few hours or days and then seemed perfectly normal for weeks or months before feeling another, weaker, urge to kill Japanese. Probably every time she was released and certified as totally cured she and Suzaku would go on a date and it would start up and she would have to be rushed back to the asylum.
    Except that since Euphemia resisted her geass at first it is possible that her cycle would have been much shorter than Suzaku's. Perhaps by the time Lelouch caught up with her she was already alternating between her normal self and the geass control. She greeted Kallen as the girl from the island instead of merely noting "non Japanese". Later she apolgized to lelouch/Zero for mistaking him for a Japanese, so she knew at that point that she was killing Japanese. And soon after she asked him to assist her in administering the sAZ, which would be unecessary if she remembered depopulating it. And when she asked Lelouch why he shot her she obviously didn't remember doing anything to harm those that Zero protected. So she seems to have been pretty much out of the control of the geass at that point. Asking if Suzaku was Japanese culd be due to hear normalself weakenng and the geass regaining control for a brief moment.
    Anyway, Lelouch should have expected her to return to normal in few days if Suzaku was a good example.
    You say that hating someone makes killing them more justified? Anyway, as far we know Lelouch only hates Euphemia for being her father's daughter, not for anything she might have done to annoy him when they were nine. And Euphemia keeps Zero's identity and later address a secret. She clearly still loves Lleouch and Nunnally and wants to be part of their faimily again.
    I believe the point of the zero Requiem was to make Lelouch the target of all the hate in the world so all the hate would be gone once Lelouch died. So making Euphemia hated and then killing her would waste all the lovely hatred which could have been directed against Britannnia and Emperor Charles.
    Popular ideas to explain why someone is not guilty of willing the actions of their body include demonic possession, brainwashing, hypnotism, drugs, brain control implants, and insanity. Some of them should have been acceptable to the Japanese crowd to explain why they shouldn't waste any hatred on Euphemia. Instead they should hate the soldiers who obeyed the massacre order as well as earlier massacre orders from Clovis and Cornelia, and the policies of Emperor Charles who trained the soliders to obey every order no matter how evil it was. And I think the crowd, who probably rmember that Lelouch and Nunnally were sacrified by their father, would believe that Charles or other Britannians might use some kind of mind control on Eeuphemia to sabotage her plan for the SAZ. If Lelouch included himself amoung those other Britannians it wotur be true after all.
    Assuming that Euphemia does not go insane but rather has the Geass pop up whenever a Japanese walks by (like how Suzaku's command to live only activates at certain times), what do you think should have happened to Euphemia? Sorry, but the Japanese are not going to accept the whole "Euphemia was crazy" excuse. She was fine before. Plus, like I said before, that excuse sounds like a feint. The Japanese are already sick of Britannia's bull crap so they are not going to accept that. And they are not going to drop their hatred for Euphemia and put on the soldiers simply because she was "crazy". They are going to hate her AND the soldiers no matter what. The Black Knights can not take care of her because the ENTIRE organization (save for 3 people) is Japanese. Any person could trigger the Geass. Britannia can not take care of her for several reasons. Euphemia no longer has a rank, title or status; she gave it up, so some people (especially Charles) may see no point in caring for her. Cornelia would not be best person to take care of her either. She is the Viseroy of Area 11; she is constantly in Japan, so any random moment can trigger the Geass. She could be sent to the royal palace in Pendragon, where she would have no chance of seeing a Japanese. Although, something on the news could trigger it. Plus, we all know what happened to Pendragon, right? It was completely destroyed by a F.L.E.I.J.A bomb later in series.

    Your example in episode 20 is not the best one. While it is true that Suzaku was about to give up and die, we do not know when (or if) the Geass would have activated due to Lelouch intervening at that point. The Geass command to live activates when Suzaku is feeling suicidal or when his life is mortal danger. It does not stop him (obviously) from serving in the military.

    I have said over and over that while we do not know the upper limits of a Geass, the rules for it say that a command has to be completed before it wears off. And we have long ones before; Suzaku is not the only one. Charles' Geass lasted on Lelouch and Nunnally for more than 7 years before C.C broke it on Lelouch and Nunnally broke it of her own will. Marianne's Geass lasted over 8 years. And C.C Geass lasted on people from her childhood to the later part of her adolesence (about 10 years).

    I never said that Lelouch was justified in killing Euphemia because he hated his family. What I said was that you should not be at all surprised that Lelouch decided to kill Euphemia instead of save her, considering what has first plan was. He did not care what would happen to Euphemia if she shot him and made him look like a martyr. She may have been captured or even killed, but Lelouch didn't really seem to care. He may have regretted the fact that he had to shot Euphemia, but it still only took him a few seconds to make that decision, carry it out and use it to his advantage.
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  13. #63
    Member Knightmare_Zero is a splendid one to behold Knightmare_Zero is a splendid one to behold Knightmare_Zero is a splendid one to behold Knightmare_Zero is a splendid one to behold Knightmare_Zero is a splendid one to behold Knightmare_Zero is a splendid one to behold Knightmare_Zero is a splendid one to behold Knightmare_Zero's Avatar
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    code geass is my favorite anime. i go with lelouch


    both made by me

  14. #64
    Junior Member KweK weK is on a distinguished road KweK weK's Avatar
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    Default I like white than black

    For me...
    ...Suzaku is more heroic type than Lelouch; and Suzaku have the traits I'm looking for a main character...

    But, I also like Lelouch at first...
    but in his attitude, i begun hating him...
    and the time Lelouch command his lovely sister, Leufie, to kill her self...
    I begun hating him the most!


    #5 Karino Tadashi

  15. #65
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    As you can guess from my user name, I mostly don't like Lelouch because he killed Euphemia when he could have easily captured her alive and kept her locked up safely, and also because of the geass directorate massacre, and some other crimes. But the more I write about it the more I keep spelling his name Lleouch, like it was Welsh (which is kind of fitting for a Britannian). Having to reype it all the time makes me really hate him. Why couldn't he have changed it to Cadwallader or Maelegwn or something else easy for me to type (with all the practice I've had due to my interest in Welsh history)?[/quote]

  16. #66
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KweK weK View Post
    For me...
    ...Suzaku is more heroic type than Lelouch; and Suzaku have the traits I'm looking for a main character...

    But, I also like Lelouch at first...
    but in his attitude, i begun hating him...
    and the time Lelouch command his lovely sister, Leufie, to kill her self...
    I begun hating him the most!
    Actually Lelouch planned to make Euphie shoot him which would start a revolution in which she would be in great danger of being killed, but then made peace with her, and then "accidentally" commanded Euphie to "kill the Japanese" (how many Japanese unspecified) and during the ensuing massacre Lelouch killed her, which I think is one of the worst murders ever on television, as you can see from my other posts. [/quote].

  17. #67
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Assuming that Euphemia does not go insane but rather has the Geass pop up whenever a Japanese walks by (like how Suzaku's command to live only activates at certain times), what do you think should have happened to Euphemia? Sorry, but the Japanese are not going to accept the whole "Euphemia was crazy" excuse. She was fine before. Plus, like I said before, that excuse sounds like a feint. The Japanese are already sick of Britannia's bull crap so they are not going to accept that. And they are not going to drop their hatred for Euphemia and put on the soldiers simply because she was "crazy". They are going to hate her AND the soldiers no matter what. The Black Knights can not take care of her because the ENTIRE organization (save for 3 people) is Japanese. Any person could trigger the Geass. Britannia can not take care of her for several reasons. Euphemia no longer has a rank, title or status; she gave it up, so some people (especially Charles) may see no point in caring for her. Cornelia would not be best person to take care of her either. She is the Viseroy of Area 11; she is constantly in Japan, so any random moment can trigger the Geass. She could be sent to the royal palace in Pendragon, where she would have no chance of seeing a Japanese. Although, something on the news could trigger it. Plus, we all know what happened to Pendragon, right? It was completely destroyed by a F.L.E.I.J.A bomb later in series.

    Your example in episode 20 is not the best one. While it is true that Suzaku was about to give up and die, we do not know when (or if) the Geass would have activated due to Lelouch intervening at that point. The Geass command to live activates when Suzaku is feeling suicidal or when his life is mortal danger. It does not stop him (obviously) from serving in the military.

    I have said over and over that while we do not know the upper limits of a Geass, the rules for it say that a command has to be completed before it wears off. And we have long ones before; Suzaku is not the only one. Charles' Geass lasted on Lelouch and Nunnally for more than 7 years before C.C broke it on Lelouch and Nunnally broke it of her own will. Marianne's Geass lasted over 8 years. And C.C Geass lasted on people from her childhood to the later part of her adolesence (about 10 years).

    I never said that Lelouch was justified in killing Euphemia because he hated his family. What I said was that you should not be at all surprised that Lelouch decided to kill Euphemia instead of save her, considering what has first plan was. He did not care what would happen to Euphemia if she shot him and made him look like a martyr. She may have been captured or even killed, but Lelouch didn't really seem to care. He may have regretted the fact that he had to shot Euphemia, but it still only took him a few seconds to make that decision, carry it out and use it to his advantage.
    You keep saying that here are examples of geass lasting for five to ten years and that therefore Euphie would have to be imprisoned for five to ten years and perhaps years more than that. And you seem to imply that being imprisoned for such a long time would be no better than death for a young girl.
    I suggest that you get in contact with Dr. Otto Habsburg, who was the head of the Habsburg dynasty and claimant to its thrones from 1922 to 2007, and ask him a hypothetical question about the Austrian revolution in 1918, when he was exiled from Austria with the rest of the Imperial family.
    Suppose that the new government wanted to execute or imprison the Habsburgs. Does he think it would have been better for him to have been imprisoned or forty or fifty or sixty years and not released until 1958 to 1978, or executed ninety years ago in 1918? [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-14-2009 at 01:46 PM.

  18. #68
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    You keep saying that here are examples of geass lasting for five to ten years and that therefore Euphie would have to be imprisoned for five to ten years and perhaps years more than that. And you seem to imply that being imprisoned for such a long time would be no better than death for a young girl.
    I suggest that you get in contact with Dr. Otto Habsburg, who was the head of the Habsburg dynasty and claimant to its thrones from 1922 to 2007, and ask him a hypothetical question about the Austrian revolution in 1918, when he was exiled from Austria with the rest of the Imperial family.
    Suppose that the new government wanted to execute or imprison the Habsburgs. Does he think it would have been better for him to have been imprisoned or forty or fifty or sixty years and not released until 1958 to 1978, or executed ninety years ago in 1918?
    I keep saying that because you keep saying that the longest time anyone has ever been under the influence of a Geass was only a year or two, while I (repeatedly) have shown examples of longer periods than that. The most obvious example would be Charles' use of his Geass on Lelouch and Nunnally. Both of them were under the influence of his Geass for over 7 years before having it broken (Lelouch) or breaking it on their own (Nunnally). Because of this, we know that the Geass can last AT LEAST this long.

    How many Japanese she was commanded to kill is ambiguous. The command was "kill the Japanese". She not stop with the people that were in the SAZ. She killed people standing immediately outside the SAZ plus she attacked Suzaku (who, while in the SAZ, was not a participate) and Kallen (who was even there). She commanded her soldiers to kill any Japanese they saw, not just to kill the Japanese in the SAZ.

    I am not comparing prison to death, however, someone like Euphemia, who has a strong relationship with those she loves and trusts, will most likely not handle being in confinement for a sentence that could possibly be for the rest of her life. If her Geass is not constantly active (like Suzaku's), it will activate anytime she is around someone who is Japanese or anything that triggers the Geass itself. However, there is evidence to the contrary. Suzaku's command to live wore off whenever conditions were safe for him again. Euphemia's command to kill the Japanese did not wear off even when Lelouch was standing right in front of her. Unlike Dr.Hapsburg, a man who might have been of sound mind, Euphemia was under the influence of something that can only be discribed as a spell that was compelling her to carry out the practical genocide of the Japanese people. A lot of people have suggested that Euphemia should have been taken prisoner but my question is, what would hapen to her after that?

    Like I said before, the Geass command to kill would either be in constant effect or trigger activated by her surroundings. She cannot be with her sister because Cornelia is Viceroy of Japan. She is always going to be in Japan. She cannot visit Suzaku, the man she loves, for more than obvious reasons. She cannot be with the Black Knights because the entire organization (except 3 people) are Japanese. Anything can set her off and she has already shown that she able to use a gun and pilot a Knightmare. Keeping her in the constant presence of a non-Japanese member (ie Diethard) may or may not work since she certainly did not forget who the Black Knights were (just knowing she is around a bunch of Japanese can trigger the Geass).
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  19. #69
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post

    How many Japanese she was commanded to kill is ambiguous. The command was "kill the Japanese". She not stop with the people that were in the SAZ. She killed people standing immediately outside the SAZ plus she attacked Suzaku (who, while in the SAZ, was not a participate) and Kallen (who was even there). She commanded her soldiers to kill any Japanese they saw, not just to kill the Japanese in the SAZ.
    How do you know the limits of the SAZ? Did you see signs in Japanese showing the borders of the SAZ?
    I remember soldiers shooting at Suzaku but not Euphemia shooting at him.

    And when did Euphemia attack Kallen? Kallen was hidden at a distance during episode 22 and couldn't have been attacked by Euphie then. And if you saw the same episode 23 as I did and think that Euphemia attacked Kallen you would make a poor witness in court:

    Prosecutor: So Ms Wolfgirl has testified that Euphemia attacked Kallen.

    Judge: Defense may cross-examine.

    Defense: Ms Wolfgirl, how many rounds did Euphemia fire at Kallen?

    Wolfgirl: Er, none.

    Defense: So how many times did Euphemia kick or punch Kallen's nightmare?

    Wolfgirl: She, er, didn't.

    Defense: So how did the encounter between them begin?

    Wolfgirl: Well, Euphemia was shooting at some fleeing Japanese when Kallen's nightmare bumped into Euphemia's.

    Defense: So Kallen initiated the physical contact?

    Wolfgirl: Well, er, yes, I guess you could put it like that.

    Defense: But I suppose that Euphemia reacted with violence to Kallen's actions.

    Wolfgirl: Yes. That arrogant [censored] called Kallen an Eleven and said how dare you do that to Princess Euphemia, or words to that effect.

    Defense: How brutal. What happened next?

    Wolfgirl: Kallen realized she was talking to the princess and said something like "I've got you now, you useless person", or something similar.

    Defense: So did Euphemia begin her attack then?

    Wolfgirl: No, when she recognized that Kallen wasn't Japanese her normal personality reemerged and she said something like "You're the girl from the island".

    Defense: You said that in a rather neutral or even friendly tone. Didn't Euphemia say it in a more hostile tone?

    Wolfgirl: No, she said it about like I said it.

    Defense: So their previous meeting on the island should have been friendly?

    Wolfgirl: Well, er, Kallen attacked Euphemia's knight, and Euphemia objected, and Kallen said something like stay out of it you useless puppet subviceroy, and Euphemia ordered her knight to attack Kallen.

    Defense: Did Euphemia insult Kallen back when she ordered her knight to attack?

    Wolfgirl: Well, no. Except when controlled by the geass Euphemia never insulted anybody.

    Defense: How did the fight go?

    WolfgirL: The ground collapsed and they fell into a lab in a cavern. Lelouch and Kallen stole a nightmare and escaped, and__

    Defense: And?

    Wolfgirl: Well, Kallen did shoot a machine gun in the general direction of Suzaku and Euphemia, but armored soldiers formed a shield around them to protect them.

    Defense: So in her normal condition Euphemia was so friendly that she was not hostile to someone who had tried to kill her?

    Wolfgirl: Well, er, no, she didn't seem to resent that.

    Defense: So what happened after Euphemia recognized Kallen, on the day of the Fuji Massacre?

    Wolfgirl: Kallen said something about Euphemia being doomed, and prepared to try to roast Euphemia to death, but Zero interrupted them.

    Defense: And what did Euphemia do to Kallen after the interruption? When did she get around to attacking Kallen?

    Wolfgirl: That was the end of it. They didn't meet after that.

    Defense: So that is how Euphemia attacked Kallen. I have no further questions, your honor.

    Judge: Does the prosecution wish to further examine the witness?

    Prosecution. No. your honor.

    And how far was Euphemia's broadcast command to kill Japanese transmitted? If it went all over Japan wouldn't Cornelia have been alerted within minutes? Wouldn't she have ordered the soldiers in the zone to stop the massacre and protect Euphemia and high-ranking guests, and restrain Euphemia if she insisted on attacking the Japanese? Wouldn't the Black Knights have had to fight a dense concentration of Britannian troops, or allow them to withdraw in peace, instead of finding them scattered to hunt Japanese? If Euphemia knew the range of her transmitter she would have an idea of where the soldiers would be obeying her. But I don't see how it could have reached far beyond the SAZ without Cornelia soon taking charge of the situation. [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 11-28-2009 at 11:01 PM.

  20. #70
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Assuming that Euphemia does not go insane but rather has the Geass pop up whenever a Japanese walks by (like how Suzaku's command to live only activates at certain times), what do you think should have happened to Euphemia? Sorry, but the Japanese are not going to accept the whole "Euphemia was crazy" excuse. She was fine before. Plus, like I said before, that excuse sounds like a feint. The Japanese are already sick of Britannia's bull crap so they are not going to accept that. And they are not going to drop their hatred for Euphemia and put on the soldiers simply because she was "crazy". They are going to hate her AND the soldiers no matter what. The Black Knights can not take care of her because the ENTIRE organization (save for 3 people) is Japanese. Any person could trigger the Geass. Britannia can not take care of her for several reasons. Euphemia no longer has a rank, title or status; she gave it up, so some people (especially Charles) may see no point in caring for her. Cornelia would not be best person to take care of her either. She is the Viseroy of Area 11; she is constantly in Japan, so any random moment can trigger the Geass. She could be sent to the royal palace in Pendragon, where she would have no chance of seeing a Japanese. Although, something on the news could trigger it. Plus, we all know what happened to Pendragon, right? It was completely destroyed by a F.L.E.I.J.A bomb later in series.

    Your example in episode 20 is not the best one. While it is true that Suzaku was about to give up and die, we do not know when (or if) the Geass would have activated due to Lelouch intervening at that point. The Geass command to live activates when Suzaku is feeling suicidal or when his life is mortal danger. It does not stop him (obviously) from serving in the military.

    I have said over and over that while we do not know the upper limits of a Geass, the rules for it say that a command has to be completed before it wears off. And we have long ones before; Suzaku is not the only one. Charles' Geass lasted on Lelouch and Nunnally for more than 7 years before C.C broke it on Lelouch and Nunnally broke it of her own will. Marianne's Geass lasted over 8 years. And C.C Geass lasted on people from her childhood to the later part of her adolesence (about 10 years).

    I never said that Lelouch was justified in killing Euphemia because he hated his family. What I said was that you should not be at all surprised that Lelouch decided to kill Euphemia instead of save her, considering what has first plan was. He did not care what would happen to Euphemia if she shot him and made him look like a martyr. She may have been captured or even killed, but Lelouch didn't really seem to care. He may have regretted the fact that he had to shot Euphemia, but it still only took him a few seconds to make that decision, carry it out and use it to his advantage.
    Why would any Japanese ever walk by Euphemia unless he was suicidal or didn't know who she was? Why would Euphemia, if not controlled by the geass, want to take a chance of triggering it? Why would the Briitannian government ever want her to come in contact with Japanese, unless of course they kill two birds with one stone and make her the head executioner in Japan? And maybe they would charge suicidal Japanese a fee to be killed by Euphemia and avoid the heavy fine that their survivors would otherwise have to pay if they deserted their duties through unsanctioned suicide.
    Why do you say the Japanese would never forgive Euphemia?. Was the Fuji massacre worse than Cornelia's Saitema Ghetto massacre? Cornelia didn't seem to be marked for death after the Saitema massacre. In real life American GIs were perfectly safe in post-war Japan, even though any one of them might have taken part in the genocidal air raids. General Douglas MacArthur didn't make any effort to stop those air raids, and so shared the guilt for them. Yet his administration of occupied Japan made him respected and even loved.
    (All the Britannians, except for Euphemia who seems to have made the Britannian army fight in a more civilized way at least once, share in the guilt for the Shinjaku and Saitema massacres because they did not object to them. All of the Japanese who fight for Japanese independence or at least desire it share the guilt of the worst terrorists who fight for Japanese independence, since they have not renounced the goal of Japanese independence in disgust at the crimes of the terrorists who share that goal. So Euphemia is just about the only good person in Code Geass).
    If Euphemia became the viceroy and was allowed to make the reforms she desired she might soon be worshiped as a goddess who was usually very kind and just but sometimes terrible and dangerous.
    Why do you make such a big deal about the problems of caring for one more prisoner in a world with thousands or millions of prisoners? If there were only three non-Japanese in the Black Knights Diethard was making a mountain out of a molehill when he made his speech about Zero attracting followers of all races and creeds. No wonder Zero put him in charge of propaganda. But Lelouch had a big source of non-Japenese recruits for the Black knights. He could use his geass on some of the non-Japanese at the stadium to make them guard Euphemia faithfully.
    But if Euphemia didn't need medical attention after being captured she could just be tied up, perhaps sedated, and basically ignored for a day or so. She would have to be checked now and then, and given water every few hours, and optionally be fed and allowed to go to the bathroom under guard. That would not tie up a lot of valuable manpower. And after the capture of Tokyo there would be thousands of Britannian prisoners eager to improve their life expectancies and/or save relatives kept as hostages by helping to guard Euphemia. And Lelouch could give them geass commands to guard Euphemia.
    Of course Lelouch could have released Euphemia after a few hours in exchange for whatever he could extort from Cornelia. The surrender of Suzaku and his Lancelot, or maybe the surrender of Tokyo, or all of Japan, or fighting the Black Knights in the open instead of in Tokyo, saving the lives of tens or hundreds or thousands of civilians if Lelouch still cared about that.
    And if Euphemia lived Cornelia would have no motive to say on as viceroy just to take out her hatred on the Japanese. in "Refrain" Cornelia told Euphie that she wanted to fight the Euro Universe on the EL Alemain front, and would leave Euphie in charge of "this area" as soon as the rebel groups were defeated. Once the Black Rebellion was crushed Cornelia could go fight the Euro Universe and keep Euphie guarded at her main headquarters, or take her back to Britannia to be locked up and cared for.
    I think that Euphemia and Cornelia are probably rich enough to pay for Euphemia's care without government help, especially if Cornelia has acquired a lot of loot in her conquests. And it would be better to possibly be killed in Pendragon at the age of seventeen to to be killed at Fuji at the age of sixteen. [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-19-2009 at 10:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post


    I am not comparing prison to death, however, someone like Euphemia, who has a strong relationship with those she loves and trusts, will most likely not handle being in confinement for a sentence that could possibly be for the rest of her life. If her Geass is not constantly active (like Suzaku's), it will activate anytime she is around someone who is Japanese or anything that triggers the Geass itself. However, there is evidence to the contrary. Suzaku's command to live wore off whenever conditions were safe for him again. Euphemia's command to kill the Japanese did not wear off even when Lelouch was standing right in front of her. Unlike Dr.Hapsburg, a man who might have been of sound mind, Euphemia was under the influence of something that can only be discribed as a spell that was compelling her to carry out the practical genocide of the Japanese people. A lot of people have suggested that Euphemia should have been taken prisoner but my question is, what would hapen to her after that?

    Like I said before, the Geass command to kill would either be in constant effect or trigger activated by her surroundings. She cannot be with her sister because Cornelia is Viceroy of Japan. She is always going to be in Japan. She cannot visit Suzaku, the man she loves, for more than obvious reasons. She cannot be with the Black Knights because the entire organization (except 3 people) are Japanese. Anything can set her off and she has already shown that she able to use a gun and pilot a Knightmare. Keeping her in the constant presence of a non-Japanese member (ie Diethard) may or may not work since she certainly did not forget who the Black Knights were (just knowing she is around a bunch of Japanese can trigger the Geass).
    Euphemia could have been visited by people she loved in prison or an asylum or when under house arrest. As far as I can tell Euphemia loved her father (at least a little, and he may not have returned it at all), and her mother (who may have been alive and able to care for her. If not that was another loss that Euphemia had learned to accept), and Cornelia, and any hypothetical full siblings they may have had (who might have been alive to help care for her. And if not that was another loss Euphie had learned to accept), and several half siblings such as Lelouch, Nunnally, Clovis (dead), maybe Schnitzel, and her boyfriend Suzaku. She could have had a few visitors or even one or more full time companions that she loved. Suzaku could have visited behind a glass wall or something.
    And if Euphemia lived Cornelia might give up the position of Viceroy of area Eleven. In "Refrain" she said she would go fight the Euro Universe as soon as the rebels were crushed. So she might give up the viceregal position to take care of Euphie while having another assignment. Why would a great general like Cornelia take a job as Viceroy of an already conquered Area like Japan except as a temperary assignment?
    Why do you say: "Euphemia's command to kill the Japanese did not wear off even when Lelouch was standing right in front of her."? When she saw Zero's mask she said something like "Sorry,I thought you were Japanese." so at that moment she knew that she had been killing Japanese. A moment later she asked Zero to help her administer the SAZ. That would not make sense if she remembered the massacre and the exodus of terrified fugitives.
    When Lelouch shot her she asked why. She didn't expect any danger from Zero, the protector and avenger of the Japanese, so she didn't remember the massacre. After Geass is done people don't remember what they did, so Euphemia seems to have been almost totally free from the geass when Lelouch shot her.
    And why do you worry so much about what would happen to Euphemia as a prisoner? Obviously she would have had problems, like most prisoners. And why do you make such a big deal about her knowing how to use a gun and a nightmare? Thousands and thousands of Britannian soldiers and Black Knights know how to use guns and pilot nightmares, and have obeyed orders to commit massacres, and have full access to guns and nightmares. Euphemia's potential danger to Japanese people is a drop in the bucket. [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-19-2009 at 10:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Assuming that Euphemia does not go insane but rather has the Geass pop up whenever a Japanese walks by (like how Suzaku's command to live only activates at certain times), what do you think should have happened to Euphemia? Sorry, but the Japanese are not going to accept the whole "Euphemia was crazy" excuse. She was fine before. Plus, like I said before, that excuse sounds like a feint. The Japanese are already sick of Britannia's bull crap so they are not going to accept that. And they are not going to drop their hatred for Euphemia and put on the soldiers simply because she was "crazy". They are going to hate her AND the soldiers no matter what. The Black Knights can not take care of her because the ENTIRE organization (save for 3 people) is Japanese. Any person could trigger the Geass. Britannia can not take care of her for several reasons. Euphemia no longer has a rank, title or status; she gave it up, so some people (especially Charles) may see no point in caring for her. Cornelia would not be best person to take care of her either. She is the Viseroy of Area 11; she is constantly in Japan, so any random moment can trigger the Geass. She could be sent to the royal palace in Pendragon, where she would have no chance of seeing a Japanese. Although, something on the news could trigger it. Plus, we all know what happened to Pendragon, right? It was completely destroyed by a F.L.E.I.J.A bomb later in series.

    You say if Euphemia lived she might have been in Pendragon when it was destroyed by a F.L.E.I.J.A bomb. Didn't Nina try and fail to make a F.L.E.I.J.A. bomb when she heard that Euphemia was killed? Didn't Nina later help Lloyd's team develop F.L.E.I.J.A a little sooner than they would have done without her help? Maybe the fighting would have been over by the time that a practical F.L.E.I.J.A weapon was developed, if Euphemia hadn't been killed. The shot that killed Euphemia was the shot that kept on giving death, destruction, and suffering. And it is better to die in Pendragon in the year 2018 than to die at Fuji in the year 2017.
    And if Euphemia was kept in some villa on the outskirts of Pendragon she might survive the blast. And even if she got a fatal case of cancer decades later as a result, she might still have lived a much long, healthier, and happier life than most girls contemporary to CC, and most girls though history, could have expected. And she might have been kept hundreds of miles from Pendragon.[/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-18-2009 at 09:25 PM.

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    Wow. I've read what each and everybody has posted and I must say that you all have points and feel more strongly about your choice. I know I'll probably get yelled (figuratively) at for my choice, but I side with Suzaku.
    He could have found another way for dealing with Euphemia, like modifying her Geass, tying her up, or whatever. His decision to kill Euphemia resullted in F.L.E.I.A., the worst weapon I've seen so far. F.L.E.I.A. probably resulted in thousands of death (both Britannian and Japanese).
    Also, Lelouch was a douche for using Rolo. All the poor kid wanted was to make Lelouch happy. Killing Shirley was a fluke. Hell, I almost cried when Rolo died protecting his 'big brother', and all I could think was that Lelouch didn't deserve to know Rolo.
    I also agree with proEuphie when Suzaku can't technically be a traitor to the japanese govt.
    Lastly, I agree with Suzaku's idea. To change the Britannian government from thre inside. I believe that is the best way to deal with Britannnia. Let's not forget, it's Charles that's evil, not all of Britannia. There were innocent Brittanians who wanted nothing with the war and just wanted to live their lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Assuming that Euphemia does not go insane but rather has the Geass pop up whenever a Japanese walks by (like how Suzaku's command to live only activates at certain times), what do you think should have happened to Euphemia?....Britannia can not take care of her for several reasons. Euphemia no longer has a rank, title or status; she gave it up, so some people (especially Charles) may see no point in caring for her. Cornelia would not be best person to take care of her either. She is the Viseroy of Area 11; she is constantly in Japan, so any random moment can trigger the Geass. She could be sent to the royal palace in Pendragon, where she would have no chance of seeing a Japanese. Although, something on the news could trigger it. Plus, we all know what happened to Pendragon, right? It was completely destroyed by a F.L.E.I.J.A bomb later in series.
    Are you suggesting that only members in good standing of the royal family are allowed to get psychiatric treatment or to be confined in mental institutions?
    While it is true that Emperor Charles has a huge family, and their life style may tend to drive them insane a lot, that would restrict the mental health industry to a very small pool of customers. Why would there be such a harsh restriction, unless perhaps Emperor Charles has a grudge against the mental health industry for some well-founded doubts about his mental condition expressed sometime in the past?
    And why would Cornelia keep the position of viceroy of Area 11, an already-conquered province, in preference to taking care of her beloved sister? If Cornelia was going to give up her warlike life style for anything, it would be to take care of Euphemia, not administer a relatively peaceful region. She only accepted the job as a temporary measure. By "Refrain" she was already talking about going to fight the Euro Universe as soon as the Japanese rebels were crushed. Cornelia did not want to be Viceroy of Area 11, it was an unsatisfying position she took out of a sense of duty because a strong hand was needed there after the death of Clovis and perhaps to prove that she had enough civilian government skills to make a good empress.
    And Cornelia could have taken care of Euphemia fine commuting from Japan to Britannia every weekend or whatever. Do you think that any employees of Cornelia would dare to disobey her orders for the care and protection of Euphemia? Cornelia would probably start by torturing one or more of them just as a slight hint of what she would do if they failed her. And if Euphemia watched that and her normal personality had any control over her she would do her best not to get them in any trouble. And if Euphemia's normal personality was in control a lot of the time her guardians would soon like her and want to do what was good for her. [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-18-2009 at 10:13 PM.

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