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Got to go with Lelouch, he chose to give the world a real peace instead of one forced upon if had decided to stay as emporer.
this should of had a poll
i'm on lulu's side 100%! he could have changed the world, stupid suzaku, i never liked him ><
You're like an angel from a picture book...
I agree with samurai fang, SOMEBODY GET OFF THEIR BUTTOCKS AND SHOOT SUZAKU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we know that but we're bored and having fun... besides my imagination sucks so I couldn't write a fan fiction anyways...
I think I would have to go with Lelouch. He does have similar ideals to Yagami Light but he is just a less psychotic and his aims aren't as murderous in mental nature (even though Lelouch did kill more people, even if they are just doing their jobs).
Light never did anything for his people, just what he thinks is justice. And was overly obsessed about winning over L...Also, I definitely don't like his evil cackle....
Lelouch did stand up for the people not of his heritage. But also he chose to oppose Britannia because of revenge. Plus, he did redeem himself in the end. Which goes a long way in my heart.
He's a tactical genius and somewhat sadistic (maybe in my head only lol) and very forward. I like that in general anime. Although I did like L in Death Note because of his genius abilities and non-emotional character.
I do love Suzaku but he just didn't do enough for me to really understand. He's just the fallen hero. Rival to Zero.
i like Suzaku but Lelouch is my fave. He's an obsession. Aside from that, Lelouch has a real purpose in fighting against his own country, unlike Suzaku.
so we held hands unconciously and then you taught me how to love truly- Ang Huling El Bimbo (The Last El Bimbo) by the Eraserheads
Giving Euphie the geass was an accident. Pointing the gun at her and pulling the trigger was murder. Lelouch came to the meeting planning to start a rebellion that would drive the Brittannians out of Japan, and he told Eupemia he was going to make her shoot him to start it. He was going to make the Japanese hate her almost as much as they did hate her later . That would have put poor little Euphie in great danger. And getting shot to start a revolution which will kill thousands of Brits and Japanese? Greater hate has no man than he who gives up his life to endanger those he should protect.
Lelouch could have thought of a plan to kill the SAZ without killing Euphemia, like making her resign from the position of administrator because it was too big and dangerous a job for her. But he didn't. And when he accidentally made her order the massacre he didn't waste much time going back to the old plan of killing her. He could have captured her alive easily but he shot her while she was talking to him. Euphemia didn't remember anything about the massacre and so must have been almost wholely out of the control of the geass when he shot her, for no good reason and without much evil reason that I can think of.
And some people think Suzaku was bad to fight against the friend she saw murder his girlfriend.
Last edited by proEuphie; 02-18-2009 at 10:10 PM.
But even if Lelouch's goals were right, he committed two terrible and evil crimes. The geass directorate massacre and the murder of Euphemia when he could have captured her alive with no danger to himself or others.
Last edited by proEuphie; 02-18-2009 at 10:57 PM.
oh good lord
As to the original question "Do I think that Suzaku is a "mighty hero" for killing Lelouch?" Yes and no. No, because he did not kill Lelouch for the reasons everyone might be thinking. Him killing Lelough in the end was something he and Lelough had planned the whole time. Lelouch was hated by...well...everyone after he became the ruler of the world. His death meant that everyone could now get together and rebuild since everyone's enemy was now gone (planning everything so that you would reach your goal by dying is pretty impressive). The reason why I also say yes is because Suzaku took on the role of being the new Zero. He threw away happiness and freedom so that peace could continue.
This is my war face.
This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.
Then Lelouch made peace with Euphemia, accidentally told her to kill the Japanese, and after a few minutes abandoned the peace and went back to starting a revolution and trying to kill Euphie. Even though saying that Euphie was crazy or possessed by demons or something and it wasn't her fault, but the fault of the evil Emperor Charles who had turned his soldiers into evil killers who would obey even the craziest order to kill people would direct the Japanese hatred toward Lelouch's arch enemy Charles and would be perfectly true. Euphie was "insane or possessed by demons or something" and Emperor Charles had "turned his soldiers into evil killers who would obey even the craziest order to kill people".
Lelouch's decision to blame the massacre on Euphemia and kill her was poor planning, sinch a lot of the Japanese hatred vanished when they heard that Euphemia was dead. That hatred could have been directed at the Emperor and used to make them more eager to capture Tokyo and eventually attack Brittannia.
Lelouch's planning was poor because he seems to have had a desire to kill Euphemia for some unknown reason(s).
Who has Lelouch killed beside Brittannian soldiers? He murdered JLF leaders by blowing up their ship because he thought they were evil terrorists or because they were rivals for leadership in the rebellion. At Narita he unleashed a landslide which killed a lot of Britannian soldiers and JLF men and went on the engulf the town of Narita. Lelouch didn't seem very sorry that he hadn't calculated it more carefully, in fact his leer reminded me of a typical villain.
Whether Lelouch knew it or not, Narita was mostly empty because the Brit. soldiers had moved the local poulation out of the war Zone. Later Euphemia refused to go to the rescue of her beloved sister Cornelia because it might endanger the cilivians.
In contrast, Lelouch and Cornelia fought a big battle in the Toyko settlement, where an unknown number of civilians were killed in the fighting: tens or hundeds or thousands or...
The destruction in Tokyo from the Britannian invasion indicates that thousands or millions were killed in all of Japan, and yet Lelouch said that Japanewas relatively undamaged because they surrendered after only a month, due to Suzaku killing his father. So Suzaku probably saved thousands or millions of lives.
But at Narita the Brits. fought in a very civilized and humane way. Did the Emperor order the change? or Prince Schnitzel? or Princess Cornelia, the same who ordered the Saitema massacre in "Attack Cornelia"? Isn't Euphemia with her close relationship with Cornelia the one most likely to be responsible? And isn't it quite likely that gentle Euphemia persuaded Cornelia to invade Area 18 in a more civilized way than the invasion of Area 11 and so saved thousands or millions of lives?
Saying that killing Euphie was a accident is like saying that killing her was an inevitable result of accidentally giving her the order to kill the Japanese instead of a conscious decision to kill her and saying that many people would have died if she lived is like saying that Euphemia would have killed many people if she had been captured alive by Lelouch and confined instead of being shot. Do you know how many many madmen who wanted to exterminate an entire nation or the whole human race have been locked up in prisons and asylums and never killed anybody again? If Euphie is such a terrible killing machine why isn't she considered the greatest warrior in all of anime?
Last edited by proEuphie; 02-18-2009 at 10:04 PM.
When Euphemia recognized Kallen she said "you're the girl from the island" in a remarkably nonhostile tone considering that the last time they met Kallen was firing a machine gun toward her. That was not the geass talking because her geass-controlled self would only care whether Kallen was a Japanese target. So apparently Euphemia reverted to her approximately normal self as soon as she saw a non-Japanese face. A little later Euphemia was under the control of the geas but reverted to her mainly normal self when she saw Zero, her brother in disguise. She talked like the Special Admiinstrative Zone was still going to function, indicating she didn't remember the massacre. And when Lelouch shot her she asked why. Either she didn't believe Lelouch would shoot someone who was talking calmly and could easily be captured alive, or else she didn't think that Zero, protector of the Japanese, had reason to consider her an enemy to the Japanese. So she probably didn't remember the massacre, which means that she was probably almost entirely out of the geass control.
So Lelouch should have kept her guarded by nonJapanese Black Knights.[/quote]
Last edited by proEuphie; 02-18-2009 at 11:02 PM.
And Lelouch could have achieved a more peaceful revolution by capturing Euphemia and forcing Cornelia to surrender to him to save her. IN "Black KKnight" Lelouch said that Euphemia was Cornelia's weakenss, but he threw away that weakness for no good reason. [/quote]
If you could kill Napoleon before the Hundred Days in 1815 to save that boy, and other boys, and tens of thousands of men, wouldn't you do it?
If you could kill Napoleon in early 1814 and save the lives of even more people, wouldn't you do it?
If you could kill Napoleon in early 1813 and prevent the Battle of Leipzig, or the Battle of the Nations, the bloodiest battle up to that time, and other battles, and save hundreds of thousands of lives, wouldn't you do it?
If you could kill Napoleon in early 1812 and prevent the Russian campaign and save even more lives, wouldn't you do it?
If you could kill a few hundred of the leading hawks in France and other European countries in 1792 and save the lives of a million men (and boys) killed in the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars, wouldn't you do?
If you could kill Francisco Solano Lopez and his top men in 1864, saving Paraguay from the crushing defeat which was to come, and saving thousands of children, wouldn't you do it?
If you could kill Ala ad-Din Muhammad Khwarizmshah and his hawkish advisers in 1218, saving millions of lives by forcing surrender to the Mongols, wouldn't you do it?
If you could kill a few hundred of the most hawkish leaders in the European nations in 1914, saving millions of lives by preventing World War I and thus World War II, wouldn't you do it?
If you could kill the founder of the Tai Ping movement before it got started, and save a million and a half lives killed in the Tai Ping Rebellion, wouldn't you do it?
If you could kill the delegates to succession conventions in 1860 and 1861 in a way which convinced the Southerners that God had struck them down in wrath, and so prevent the US Civil War, and save 600.000 lives, wouldn't you do it?
The ruins of Tokyo indicate that many thousands or millions of Japanese were killed in the Brittannian conquest. But Lelouch said that Japan was much better off than other areas because it surrendered after only one month, because Prime Minster Kururoghi was shot, because ten-year-old Suzaku shot his father. So Suzaku saved thousands and probably millions of lives with a single shot. That probably makes him the greatest child hero in anime.
As a teenager Suzaku joined the Brittannian army as an honorary Brittannian in the hope of eventually rising to a position where he could help the Japanese people after twenty or forty years, or maybe being killed to escape his guilt for killing his father.
When the resistance captured a van containing what they thought was poison gas, Viceroy Clovis panicked and ordered the Shinjaku Ghetto Massacre, slaughtering thousands of the Japanese the resistance had hoped to help. Suzaku was shot for refusing an order to kill someone but survived. Lelouch ended the massacre but murdered Clovis, and Suzaku was framed for the murder. Lelouch and the resistance rescued Suzaku, but he refused to join Zero and turned himself into the army. Both Suzaku and Lelouch acted like jerks, insulting the beliefs of the other.
Suzaku saw that he was right to reject violent resistance, because it leads to violent and unpredictable reactions,and more death and evil, which later events in the series constantly prove true. But he must have also felt that his way of trying to reform Britannia was hopeless.
Even though Lelouch knew first hand the hatred that the killing of a loved one can cause, and even though he hoped to take bloody vengeance on those responsible for killing his mother, he continued to try violent ways of reforming the world despite the constant unpredictable and disastrous results of his and his enemies' violence.
Then Suzaku met Princess Euphemia and she turned his life around even before they said that they loved each other. Now he had a regular life at school and "good" friends like Lelouch and Kallen and the best boss a teenage boy could imagine and hope to make things better for the Japanese now instead of in a generation or two.
Then Lelouch went to the meeting with Euphemia determined to prevent the Japense from freely choosing which way to go and force them to do it his way. He planned to make the Japanese hate Euphemia and start a revolution, probably killing Euphie. Face to face with her goodness, he relented and made peace, then accidentally commanded her to kill the Japanese and soon reverted to his original plan of starting a revolution and killing Euphie.
Lelouch saw Euphemiai resist the geass command for long seconds. He should have realized that her struggle far exceeded the limits of human variability and showed that she was super humanly good, and so somehow some type of supernatural or extraterrestrial being. She was probably incarnated as a human to show us the way to peace and justice and nonviolence. If her people don't exterminate the human race, probably soon after the last episode of Code Geass, they might send us another savior in ten thousand years or ten million years.
Lelouch could have gently restrained Euphemia while she was talking to him. Instead he shot her without warning before Suzaku's eyes, a shot which started Suzaku down the same road to evil that Lelouch had begun to take the first time he started to relax his scruples. Suzaku now wanted to kill and take vengeance.
Nina tried to create and use an atomic weapon to get revenge for Euphemia. It failed, but she joined an army research team and helped to prefect her weapon. I hear that in the second season it was used several times and killed millions of people, and that it was sometimes used by such former innocents as Nunnally and Suzaku.
I read that in the second season Britannia defeated the Euro Universe and a marriage alliance was arranged between the Brittannian first prince and the Chinese Empress, giving hope that mankind would be united in time to prevent the use of atomic weapons. But Lelouch sabotaged the marriage alliance and prevented a Britannian conquest of the world and atomic weapons began to be used.
After a Britannian world conquest it would have taken just a few hundred years for the Britannians and the numbers to gradually become one people, just as it took just a few hundred years for the people of hundreds of tribes conquered by the Japanese to become Japanese themselves.
Who knows how many thousands of years it will be until there is another chance to unite the human race as good as the one Lelouch prevented, and how many millions of people will be killed by atomic weapons in the wars that will be fought.
So Suzaku fired one shot and killed someone he loved, and suffered agonies of guilt for killing him, and saved millions of lives.
And Lelouch fired one shot and killed someone he supposedly loved,and suffered occassional feelings of mild regret for killing her, and deprived the world of Euphemia, and the hope of a movement of Euphemiaism, and possibly doomed the human race to extermination by her vengeful people, and helped cause atomic weapons to kill millions of people within a year, and turned former innocents like Nina, Suzaku, and Nunnally, into killers on a grand scale.
Last edited by proEuphie; 02-24-2009 at 09:52 PM.
IN the years 2017 and 2018 of the Brit. calendar there is no independent government of Japan to make treason laws. The only government with authority in Japan is the Britannian Empire, and therefore it is impossible to committ treason in Japan against any other authority than the Britannian Empire.
Accusing Suzakuof committing treason against the Japanse people or nationality is absurd. Treason is a crime against governments and it is decreed a crime because those governments want to frighten people from revolting against them.
No logical person would accuse Suzaku of treason against Japan any more than any logical person would accuse Benedict Arnold of treason against the United States during the American Revolution. Of course American history books call Arnold a traitor, but those same history books say that the United States began on July 4, 1776, instead of in 1783 when the peace treaty was signed and ratified.
Before 1783 the United States was not a government but a criminal organization and it was impossible to committ any crime against the United States. Benedict Arnold was a murderer and a traitor against Great Britain as long as he served the United States and he returned to his rightful Loyalty at the time of his so-called "treason" against the United States.
Nothing done by the United States before 1783 was legal. The British government could have kidnapped George Washington from his presidential mansion in Philadelphia in 1789 to 1797, smuggled him to Britain, and tried him for treason during the years 1775 to 1783, with much more right than Israel had to kidnap Adolf Eichmann from Argentina and try him for crimes committed in Europe, far beyond the jurisdiction of Israel.
Many governments go to the extreme of punishing enemy nationals on their territory for treason if they try to fight for their native lands, while punishing their own nationals for treason if they help enemy governments while on enemy territory. So if you are an enemy national in an enemy country in time of war you could be punished for treason by either the enemy country or your own country if you are not careful.
I think it was kind of silly for the US to try "Tokyo Rose" for treason for making propaganda broadcasts during world War II, since she did so in Japan while she was under Japanese jursidiction. I think it would be more resonable for the Japanese government to demand the extradition of surviving US bomber crews on the grounds that they were in Japanese airspace when they released their bombs and so were committing treason against the government in control of the area they were visiting.
I hope this discussion will remind you that being tried for treason is a terrifying prospect and that loosly accusing even fictional characters of treason might eventually lead to unjust actions against real people.
for more of my opinions about Lelouch and Suzaku see my other posts in this thread. [/quote]
Last edited by proEuphie; 03-25-2009 at 08:34 PM.
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