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Thread: Wage Inequality

  1. #1
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    Default Wage Inequality

    This chart shows the wage earned in that year by a CEO in the U.S. and compares it to the workers wage during that same year. As you can see, the CEO wage has increased a lot, whereas the workers income has barely increased. In 2007, the average CEO earned 14,200,000 and the worker earned 36,140. The worker would have to work 393 years to make what the CEO earned in a year. My question to you is: Is this fair? Should the CEO be earning so much money than the worker?

    ----------CEO-- ---Worker-- -Ratio
    1970---- 700,000--- 28,000-- 25x
    1980--- 1,268,400-- 30,200-- 42x
    1990--- 2,918,003-- 27,271-- 107x
    2000-- 14,857,317-- 28,300-- 525x
    2007-- 14,200,000-- 36,140-- 393x

    British – 25x Canadians – 23x Germans – 13x Japanese – 11x


    I believe this is unfair. Why does a CEO need so much money? It's no wonder that a vast majority of the U.S population is going through a hard time right now. The company should distribute some money amongst its workers rather than give a CEO a huge chunk of the earnings. Otherwise, it'll be one of those scenarios where the rich remain richer, while the poor remain poor.


    Last edited by SigmaSD; 11-07-2008 at 07:47 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Like my teacher says "Follow the money". And she's right. The money is what makes you better than everyone else. If the CEO wanted he could move the company to Mexico and pay them one dollar an hour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SigmaSD View Post
    Otherwise, it'll be one of those scenarios where the rich remain richer, while the poor remain poor.


    You mean like, oh I don't know, the rest of human history?

    This sort of thing is old news, and as long as we retain a capitalist economic model, it will never change.

  4. #4
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    How much harder is it to get the CEO's position than the worker's position? Some jobs are harder to get than others; it's only natural that the rare jobs are paid more.

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    It's amazing how people complain about how they aren't paid enough, when, in America, none of them ever work.

    They ask for more money, when they never deliver anymore work.

    Trust me, I've seen my dad's business. Half the employees are sleeping, 1/4 are eating, and the rest are barely working.

    If more people would work, maybe they could EARN a higher wage.

    [This only goes for America, though. If you're from Canada, Mexico, etc, what I said may not apply to you.]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memento Mori View Post
    It's amazing how people complain about how they aren't paid enough, when, in America, none of them ever work.

    They ask for more money, when they never deliver anymore work.

    Trust me, I've seen my dad's business. Half the employees are sleeping, 1/4 are eating, and the rest are barely working.

    If more people would work, maybe they could EARN a higher wage.

    [This only goes for America, though. If you're from Canada, Mexico, etc, what I said may not apply to you.]
    You speak of raises. I've been to my dad's work as well and they are like three guys working and four others looking at pr0n or talking. This is a trucking company btw and it seems like the guys cutting wood get raises and the guys actually truck driving are scared to ask for a raise.

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    Rich get richer, poor get poorer.

    And there's America for you.
    If each mistake being made is a new one, then progress is being made.

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    Well thats just how it goes.If you want more money you have to work and fight for it.Like Memento said most worker sit around doing nothing and complain about pays being low.Well here the situation is pretty much the same.I know some people who work their butts of working and gain nothing.You just have to try hard for more money.Slacking never gets you anything.
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    You tend to hint towards communism, a shared sence of equality for all based on a system of trust and sharing. But you seem to be missing a few underlining issues. Although a CEO may earn much more money it's due to a few reasons, the most important being risk. A worker simply turns up, does his job, gets paid and leaves. Not much financial risk at all in all consideration. Although investing in a company, taking the proactive step towards economic freedom, managing that investment and optimising its potential growth.. that is the role of the CEO. Like in industries like mining danger pay exists, your risk something and you generally earn more. Well the same applies for investors. They risk their own money and so they deserve the output they receive.

    Although i guess we must take into account drive, motivation, natural intelligence and its application in ones life. It's not fair that some of us are born smarter than others, but does it mean its wrong to assurt that to our advantage?

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
    You speak of raises. I've been to my dad's work as well and they are like three guys working and four others looking at pr0n or talking. This is a trucking company btw and it seems like the guys cutting wood get raises and the guys actually truck driving are scared to ask for a raise.
    I work part time at a sawmill while im studying for my external qualifications. I can assure you that your average "wood cutter" is on much less money than you can image. I cut wood all day ( i work dam hard too ) on a docking saw and a planer, i earn a simple $12 an hour. The truck drivers who transport what i cut? Most are on at least $30 an hour with a lot of overtime benefits. Things are just a little different from what you perceive them to be.
    Last edited by twill; 11-08-2008 at 05:03 AM.

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    Wage inequality can be on one hand the driving force of capitalism. It is in human nature to strive always for the best, and maybe even for perfection. That means physical and intellectual work. To achieve this you need to be set on your purpouse, invest in your knowledge / education in order for the future to obtain a nicely-paid job. Wage inequality can be the driving motor of modern societies. Who won't want to be (very) good paid? Who of these people will understand that for achieving that it is important to give his/her best?
    The answer is: those who will do their best to achieve this financial wealth. And as it is known, rational self-interest is the principle on which laissez-faire capitalism is set on.
    The more competition, the better for everyone. Learn to be competitive and you'll get your high wage.

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    No, I don't think it's unfair, that CEO has worked hard to get to his/hers position and an average joe worker has not.


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojack View Post
    How much harder is it to get the CEO's position than the worker's position? Some jobs are harder to get than others; it's only natural that the rare jobs are paid more.
    I agree that the work and the responsibility is higher, but that doesn't mean that CEO wages should be insanely high. Just look at countries like Britain, France, Germany, and Japan. Their CEO's only earn 25x more money or less. The US CEO earned 325x more than the average worker. I don't think that much money should go to one person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken One View Post
    Well thats just how it goes.If you want more money you have to work and fight for it.Like Memento said most worker sit around doing nothing and complain about pays being low.Well here the situation is pretty much the same.I know some people who work their butts of working and gain nothing.You just have to try hard for more money.Slacking never gets you anything.
    I agree. Some people really work themselves like dogs to support their family, and then there's those individuals that could care less about work. It's too bad there isn't a way to determine who works hard and who doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by twill View Post
    You tend to hint towards communism, a shared sence of equality for all based on a system of trust and sharing. But you seem to be missing a few underlining issues. Although a CEO may earn much more money it's due to a few reasons, the most important being risk. A worker simply turns up, does his job, gets paid and leaves.
    I'm not saying that they should be paid equally. I'm just saying that being paid 325x is too much. Maybe 50x or 100x more money is ok, but 325x is a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis View Post
    No, I don't think it's unfair, that CEO has worked hard to get to his/hers position and an average joe worker has not.
    This isn't always the case. What about those rich kids that inherit their parents company. One of my friend was telling me that his friend's parents own a chain restaurant, and they'll be leaving him in charge. His parents give him 20 dollars an hour for stocking products, and he doesn't show up for work as often.

    I also heard that most CEO's have a safety net. Whenever they know or think they're going to get fired, they immediately sign a contract with another company, in a CEO position. That way, they can screw up a company, but they'll have a job at another.

    Does everybody work hard to get where they are? I don't think so.
    Last edited by SigmaSD; 11-08-2008 at 11:39 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigmaSD, the quadruple poster View Post
    I agree that the work and the responsibility is higher, but that doesn't mean that CEO wages should be insanely high. Just look at countries like Britain, France, Germany, and Japan. Their CEO's only earn 25x more money or less. The US CEO earned 325x more than the average worker. I don't think that much money should go to one person.
    I wasn't talking about the actual work a CEO does (I don't know what a CEO does and I'm not one of those people who pretend to), I was saying that it takes hard to work to get the position. Success is based on hard work and luck, and a lot of workers are making what they do because they didn't try to make it big. A CEO position is very hard to get, and I think it's alright for them to be rewarded for making office.

    Having the incentive of sextuple 0's also attracts more people to try to get the position, so the company has a better pool of candidates to choose from. If a CEO was paid like his comrades, who would bother trying to get to the top?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis View Post
    No, I don't think it's unfair, that CEO sets his own salary, and an average joe worker does not.
    There, I fixed it for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kojack View Post
    Having the incentive of sextuple 0's also attracts more people to try to get the position, so the company has a better pool of candidates to choose from. If a CEO was paid like his comrades, who would bother trying to get to the top?
    That argument really doesn't justify that level of salaries. Double the salary would be plenty incentive. Besides, there aren't all that many brass positions, I'm sure someone would sacrifice themselves.
    Last edited by Eris; 11-08-2008 at 04:18 PM.



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    People in this thread are stupid. The only alternative to extremely stratified wages isn't flat wages and communism. For example:

    Set a maximum wage of 5 million (including bonuses/retirement/amenities, excluding insurance). Plenty of incentive is left for the janitor's sons out there, and the companies waste less money on paying people to tell other people what to do from the golf course. Maybe if Wall Street wasn't paying their executives billions of dollars (with billions more if in bonuses if they did a good job [read: take large risks with your money]) it would be a different story. I pulled the number out of my butt, by the way: You could multiply it by 20 times and it would still be better then it is now. It's just that after you've bought a swanky house, a dozen cars and a yacht there's no point in obtaining any more cash- it loses it's worth.

    Money is like playing Pokémon. After you've defeated the Elite Four there's no point in grinding any more levels, unless you're trying to beat your friends. And frankly, that's a horrible waste of time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    People in this thread are stupid. The only alternative to extremely stratified wages isn't flat wages and communism. For example:

    Set a maximum wage of 5 million (including bonuses/retirement/amenities, excluding insurance). Plenty of incentive is left for the janitor's sons out there, and the companies waste less money on paying people to tell other people what to do from the golf course. Maybe if Wall Street wasn't paying their executives billions of dollars (with billions more if in bonuses if they did a good job [read: take large risks with your money]) it would be a different story. I pulled the number out of my butt, by the way: You could multiply it by 20 times and it would still be better then it is now. It's just that after you've bought a swanky house, a dozen cars and a yacht there's no point in obtaining any more cash- it loses it's worth.

    Money is like playing Pokémon. After you've defeated the Elite Four there's no point in grinding any more levels, unless you're trying to beat your friends. And frankly, that's a horrible waste of time.
    NAP! You go to the Battle Tower. The battle tower could mean death...
    Last edited by Diocletian; 11-08-2008 at 07:56 PM.

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    Well, there's no real life equivalent to the Battle Tower so it really doesn't apply.

    On the other hand, it's pretty much the same thing as fighting your friends, only for people with no friends.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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  18. #18
    Nanobyte's minion SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    People in this thread are stupid.
    Please don't insult people, everyone has a right to post their opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    Plenty of incentive is left for the janitor's sons out there, and the companies waste less money on paying people to tell other people what to do from the golf course. ... It's just that after you've bought a swanky house, a dozen cars and a yacht there's no point in obtaining any more cash- it loses it's worth.
    Exactly, they may have more responsibilities, but the money they make reduces their stress, and they could just hire someone to do the hard work for them. In fact, they have so much money, that they could retire in just a decade of work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    Money is like playing Pokémon. After you've defeated the Elite Four there's no point in grinding any more levels, unless you're trying to beat your friends. And frankly, that's a horrible waste of time.
    Well, in Pokemon, you're still supposed to catch 'em all, but nobody really does that anyway. CEO's on the other hand just decide not to give up their corporate positions, they strive to get more money 'cause to them, money is power. (Though I must admitt not all corporate executives are the same)
    Last edited by SigmaSD; 11-08-2008 at 08:15 PM.
    If Minecraft had a Japanese intro.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=H5qFZjuKet4

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    Super Saiyan Dango


  19. #19
    Viva la Touhou !!!!! CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack's Avatar
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    If the CEOs at WaMu, AIG, and Mervyns ever wonder why their company sunk they should just take a long look at their last paycheck. No, I dont think its fair at all. All that money doesnt need to go to one or two people when the company and the workers... oh yes, AND THE ECONOMY would benefit so much more from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    Plenty of incentive is left for the janitor's sons out there...
    Lets not forget "Joe the Plumber". rofl




  20. #20
    Immortal Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute Inferno Alchemist's Avatar
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    That's because the CEO runs the company and over sees it. They earned their spot, and thus their money.

    But I do believe that workers should be paid more, like enough to live off of.

  21. #21
    Nanobyte's minion SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD has a reputation beyond repute SigmaSD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno Alchemist View Post

    But I do believe that workers should be paid more, like enough to live off of.
    Exactly. Especially the average single mom who has to raise all her children with extreme effort. (Like my mom)
    Last edited by SigmaSD; 11-08-2008 at 11:37 PM.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23's Avatar
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    Are CEOs paid exorbitant amounts of money, to the point that they'd probably be able to start up another business and create more jobs themselves? Yes. Yes they are. Is it incredibly idiotic in my personal opinion, and creates an aura of indispensability around said CEOs? Yes, yes it is and it does. SHOULD it change? Yes, in my opinion yes it should. Then again, I'm not the one collecting such a huge paycheck, if I were in that chair I'm sure I'd think it was a perfectly sound and reasonable decision. In fact, they'd probably be underpaying me, the stingy bastards.

    If the business is dumb enough to spend it all on one person and NOT on the small army that actually runs the place, then the CEO would be a fool to not take that paycheck. On a side note, my heart goes out to all the poor working-class and lower-rung corporate folks that will be out of a job when the company inevitably tanks.
    Visit the Toy Dungeon Studios Store and buy a shirt or zipper pull, damnit!

  23. #23
    boopaloop! 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT has a reputation beyond repute 3pleT's Avatar
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    along with censorship, education, and culprits of columbine incident (among others), this is just one of million things americans got wrong... VERY wrong. yet somehow, altogether, it all fits into their neat little package of passing blame on whomever, cause when these workers start to strike (and they WILL eventually), they will be blamed when some crazy kid kills someone, and once again, nobody will even mention 2nd amendment. and i sure as hell hope obama will change this, but it's very unlikely.

    ...whoa, that was quite a rant
    Last edited by 3pleT; 11-10-2008 at 07:49 AM.


  24. #24
    There's nothing new Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanosuke23 View Post
    Are CEOs paid exorbitant amounts of money, to the point that they'd probably be able to start up another business and create more jobs themselves? Yes. Yes they are. Is it incredibly idiotic in my personal opinion, and creates an aura of indispensability around said CEOs? Yes, yes it is and it does. SHOULD it change? Yes, in my opinion yes it should. Then again, I'm not the one collecting such a huge paycheck, if I were in that chair I'm sure I'd think it was a perfectly sound and reasonable decision. In fact, they'd probably be underpaying me, the stingy bastards.

    If the business is dumb enough to spend it all on one person and NOT on the small army that actually runs the place, then the CEO would be a fool to not take that paycheck. On a side note, my heart goes out to all the poor working-class and lower-rung corporate folks that will be out of a job when the company inevitably tanks.
    Well, to be fair it's the board of directors that determines the board of director's pay. So if we expected the capitalist system to fix this problem with the capitalist system, we'd have to trust small groups of individuals* to not be greedy bastards, and as history can attest that rarely works out.

    *- Also, many of them are Business Majors. From the simple fact that they went to school on their parents money and walked away with a Business Degree we can assume they have no decency or pride.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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  25. #25
    Senior Member Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind has a reputation beyond repute Kariya The Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haoie View Post
    Rich get richer, poor get poorer.

    And there's America for you.
    Here in Mexico, everyone's poor! : D

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