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Thread: Why did Lleouch say he would miraculously revive?

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    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Question Why did Lleouch say he would miraculously revive?

    In Episode 22 Lelouch told Euphemia he would make her shoot him. He said people only have room for one messiah. He said that the Japanese would see that she was a false messiah and he was a real messiah when he miraculously revived.
    Any statement must be either true or false in reality,and either true or false in the mind of the person who said it (though it can be partially true, and is more likely to be only partially true or false the more complicated it is).
    So was Lelouch's statement that he would miraculously revive true or false in reality, and true or false in his mind?

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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    In Episode 22 Lelouch told Euphemia he would make her shoot him. He said people only have room for one messiah. He said that the Japanese would see that she was a false messiah and he was a real messiah when he miraculously revived.
    Any statement must be either true or false in reality,and either true or false in the mind of the person who said it (though it can be partially true, and is more likely to be only partially true or false the more complicated it is).
    So was Lelouch's statement that he would miraculously revive true or false in reality, and true or false in his mind?
    To the world lelouch via britania died durring th invasion of japan, so him returning to britania in season two and reclaiming his former name, becoming the 99th emporer, tearing down the nobility of britania and freeing all the number nations this is his revival and him becoming the true messia. Except his older brother screws thing up and lelouch had to do what he had to to bring real peace to the world making himself the villian and dying for it. Hope that ansewrs your question.

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    It didn't mean it in the Jesus kind of way. He said that because he felt threatened by the SAZ. If the japanese started to trust Euphy, then the rebellion was done for. His plan was to tarnish Euphemia's reputation by doing something horrible (shooting Zero, Japan's). But, mind you, it wasn't going to be a fatal shot. And after that, people would stop supporting the SAZ and follow Zero on the path of rebellion.

    That was going to be his "resurrection". Zero's resurrection. Not Lelouch's.
    Last edited by Luluko; 03-02-2009 at 11:18 AM. Reason: oO It's 'it'... not 'I'.
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    Lol whatever he does he is completly insane and it's awesome.



  5. #5
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luluko View Post
    It didn't mean it in the Jesus kind of way. He said that because he felt threatened by the SAZ. If the japanese started to trust Euphy, then the rebellion was done for. His plan was to tarnish Euphemia's reputation by doing something horrible (shooting Zero, Japan's). But, mind you, it wasn't going to be a fatal shot. And after that, people would stop supporting the SAZ and follow Zero on the path of rebellion.

    That was going to be his "resurrection". Zero's resurrection. Not Lelouch's.
    But it would have to be a serious wound. If he made Euphemia give him a minor wound, like shooting him in the foot, the Japanese might not get agitated enough to revolt. Especially if Euphemia cried and acted sorry and maybe shot herself in the foot to atone. I can picture them lying in hospital beds side by side, feet up in the air, and bickering about who was the bigger idiot.
    So your theory is that Lelouch found a place in the body where a gunshot wound would look really dangerous but actually would have very little chance of being fatal. I suppose he would angle the gun properly and then order Euphemia to hold it without moving it and fire it. {/quote}

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackrosetwilight View Post
    To the world lelouch via britania died durring th invasion of japan, so him returning to britania in season two and reclaiming his former name, becoming the 99th emporer, tearing down the nobility of britania and freeing all the number nations this is his revival and him becoming the true messia. Except his older brother screws thing up and lelouch had to do what he had to to bring real peace to the world making himself the villian and dying for it. Hope that ansewrs your question.
    Schneizel barely (if any) had anything to do with Lelouch dying. That was something he and Suzaku planned to do from the start. Schneizel got (more or less) involved when Lelouch would not accept the demands of the U.F.N: to have limits put on his voting power to prevent him from getting an automatic majority due to the large size of Britannia. When he would not accept, he had Suzaku kidnap the U.F.N representatives but Schneizel attacked (utterly destroyed) Pendragon with the Damocles to make Lelouch back down (which obviouly did not work, since Lelouch took control of the Damocles, made Schneizel his [Zero's] servent and declared him Emperor of the World, which royally pissed off everyone around him).

    @proEupie: I am not entirely sure what exactly you are trying to ask. Whether Lelouch "revived" or not in mind and body is obvious in the show. He ends up reclaiming his name, Lelouch vi Britannia, and taking claim to the throne (something he renouced after his mother died) and, since everyone thought that he either disappered or died during the invasion of Japan, his return is seen as miraculous (until the whole "take over the world with an iron fist" part).

    Also, if Lelouch used his Geass to have Euphemia shoot him in a non-fatal area of his body, she would follow it. It would be painful but it could be done. And wound would not have to be too serious in order for the Japanese to revolt against the Britannians. The fact that Euphemia shot at him in the first place would be enough for him to look like a martyr, whether she wounded him or not. I can't think of any good excuse that she could use to explain why she would agree to a private meeting with Zero and then shoot at him.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 03-02-2009 at 05:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    But it would have to be a serious wound. If he made Euphemia give him a minor wound, like shooting him in the foot, the Japanese might not get agitated enough to revolt. Especially if Euphemia cried and acted sorry and maybe shot herself in the foot to atone. I can picture them lying in hospital beds side by side, feet up in the air, and bickering about who was the bigger idiot.
    Cute fanfic...

    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    So your theory is that Lelouch found a place in the body where a gunshot wound would look really dangerous but actually would have very little chance of being fatal. I suppose he would angle the gun properly and then order Euphemia to hold it without moving it and fire it. {/quote}
    That's not a theory, that's a fact and it's stated (and vastly explained) in the Stage 4 novel if people didn't pick it up already in the series.
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    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Schneizel barely (if any) had anything to do with Lelouch dying. That was something he and Suzaku planned to do from the start. Schneizel got (more or less) involved when Lelouch would not accept the demands of the U.F.N: to have limits put on his voting power to prevent him from getting an automatic majority due to the large size of Britannia. When he would not accept, he had Suzaku kidnap the U.F.N representatives but Schneizel attacked (utterly destroyed) Pendragon with the Damocles to make Lelouch back down (which obviouly did not work, since Lelouch took control of the Damocles, made Schneizel his [Zero's] servent and declared him Emperor of the World, which royally pissed off everyone around him).

    @proEupie: I am not entirely sure what exactly you are trying to ask. Whether Lelouch "revived" or not in mind and body is obvious in the show. He ends up reclaiming his name, Lelouch vi Britannia, and taking claim to the throne (something he renouced after his mother died) and, since everyone thought that he either disappered or died during the invasion of Japan, his return is seen as miraculous (until the whole "take over the world with an iron fist" part).

    Also, if Lelouch used his Geass to have Euphemia shoot him in a non-fatal area of his body, she would follow it. It would be painful but it could be done. And wound would not have to be too serious in order for the Japanese to revolt against the Britannians. The fact that Euphemia shot at him in the first place would be enough for him to look like a martyr, whether she wounded him or not. I can't think of any good excuse that she could use to explain why she would agree to a private meeting with Zero and then shoot at him.
    No. Lelouch/Zero was talking to Euphie about Zero "miraculously" reviving at a time and place that would convince the Japanese he was their true savior. That means there and within a few minutes, hours, or days of being shot. It had nothing to do with returning as prince Lelouch in Britannia sometime after the the revolution in Japan.
    As for Euphie making excuses for agreeing to a private meeting with Zero and then shooting him, I think she did not agree to a meeting but invited him to a meeting which would make it look even worse for her.
    But she might have been able to calm things down. She would have been very genuinely sorry. A historical example is fourteen-year-old king Richard II in 1381, though he was not the one who had actually killed Wat Tyler.
    Since Code Geass is an alternate history story, thre should be countless zillions of alternate universes, so I guess there are some where Lleouch died and yet Euphie was able to keep things peaceful.
    Zero would have to geass Euphie in private. Was he planning on staggering out of the vehicle saying that Euphie shot him, or was he planning on having her shoot him in public? And he should probably have ordered her to act happy about shooting him for some time afterwards. Otherwise she would revert to her normal self and be very confused and sorry.
    I can't help seeing some potential for black comedy in his plan. What if he told her to shoot him in an organ or area that he knew was safe but she didn't have his knowledge of anatomy and so had to guess where to shoot? Imagine how he would feel when he saw her aming the gun at the wrong part of him. Or what if she hesitated when she aimed the gun at him and somebody tired to stop her and the gun moved before it went off? Of course most Britannians wouldn't try to save Zero but what about Suzaku? he wouldn't want Euphie to betray someone, not even Zero.[/quote]

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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    No. Lelouch/Zero was talking to Euphie about Zero "miraculously" reviving at a time and place that would convince the Japanese he was their true savior. That means there and within a few minutes, hours, or days of being shot. It had nothing to do with returning as prince Lelouch in Britannia sometime after the the revolution in Japan.
    As for Euphie making excuses for agreeing to a private meeting with Zero and then shooting him, I think she did not agree to a meeting but invited him to a meeting which would make it look even worse for her.
    But she might have been able to calm things down. She would have been very genuinely sorry. A historical example is fourteen-year-old king Richard II in 1381, though he was not the one who had actually killed Wat Tyler.
    Since Code Geass is an alternate history story, thre should be countless zillions of alternate universes, so I guess there are some where Lleouch died and yet Euphie was able to keep things peaceful.
    Zero would have to geass Euphie in private. Was he planning on staggering out of the vehicle saying that Euphie shot him, or was he planning on having her shoot him in public? And he should probably have ordered her to act happy about shooting him for some time afterwards. Otherwise she would revert to her normal self and be very confused and sorry.
    I can't help seeing some potential for black comedy in his plan. What if he told her to shoot him in an organ or area that he knew was safe but she didn't have his knowledge of anatomy and so had to guess where to shoot? Imagine how he would feel when he saw her aming the gun at the wrong part of him. Or what if she hesitated when she aimed the gun at him and somebody tired to stop her and the gun moved before it went off? Of course most Britannians wouldn't try to save Zero but what about Suzaku? he wouldn't want Euphie to betray someone, not even Zero.
    The whole thing about Zero or Lelouch reviving was something I was not sure what you were talking about since its obvious that both things happened by the end of the series; it something that clearly happened. Lelouch (as Lelouch vi Britannia) is revived since he came back presumably from the dead. He was able to convince that Zero (not Lelouch) was their true savior since it is Zero (as Suzaku) that kills him and is able to free the world from his tyrannical rule.

    When it comes to the whole shooting thing, you are seriously overthinking it. While Euphemia may not have had the knowledge to aim a gun in a non-vital area of his body, Lelouch would. He planned on getting shot, so he would have had this information from the start. If she didn't know where to shoot, Lelouch would have just pointed it put to her (however, I wil have to give Euphemia the benefit of the doubt that she, as a 16 year old member of the royal family, already knows where organs like the stomach are; she is not stupid). Also, the gun that he had was not a real gun. It was a ceramic needle gun. He was searched for weapons before he had has meeting with Euphemia but it was with metal detectors; they would not have picked up the needle gun. The needle gun was not fatal anyway. She shot Dalton in the gut and he survived for another two episodes before dying guring the battle of Tokyo (from an explosion, not his wounds). So, she could have shot anywhere and Lelouch would have been fine. He had a helmet, so dying from a headshot is out of the equation.

    The very fact that she had a gun pointed at Zero or even just having a gun in her possession would make Zero look like a martyr. She could have acted confused and sorry but this would have just looked like some sort of feint in the eyes of the Japanese. Why did she have a gun in the FIRST PLACE? Why was it pointed towards Zero? It would be even worse if Zero got shot (which was the original plan). She invited Zero to the ceremony and when he showed up, she agreed to a private meeting with him. So, it would look terrible if she tried to shoot him (ie the SAZ was a trap or a lie, Zero was a martyr, etc), whether she hit him or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Schneizel barely (if any) had anything to do with Lelouch dying. That was something he and Suzaku planned to do from the start. Schneizel got (more or less) involved when Lelouch would not accept the demands of the U.F.N: to have limits put on his voting power to prevent him from getting an automatic majority due to the large size of Britannia. When he would not accept, he had Suzaku kidnap the U.F.N representatives but Schneizel attacked (utterly destroyed) Pendragon with the Damocles to make Lelouch back down (which obviouly did not work, since Lelouch took control of the Damocles, made Schneizel his [Zero's] servent and declared him Emperor of the World, which royally pissed off everyone around him).
    actually he does, had Schneizal not reveal lelouch true identity and the existance of the geass to the black knights, he would not have needed to sacrifice himself taking the blame for all the bad thing that happened and he would've remained as zero

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackrosetwilight View Post
    actually he does, had Schneizal not reveal lelouch true identity and the existance of the geass to the black knights, he would not have needed to sacrifice himself taking the blame for all the bad thing that happened and he would've remained as zero
    Although him taking all the world's hated, putting it on himself and having himself killed by Zero was the plan from the start (the Zero Requiem). That was something he, Suzaku and C.C planned out, so Schneizel only helped pulled it along (another "pawn", as Lelouch would put it). Schneizel was not responsible for Lelouch's death since Lelouch planned on dying from the start.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Although him taking all the world's hated, putting it on himself and having himself killed by Zero was the plan from the start (the Zero Requiem). That was something he, Suzaku and C.C planned out, so Schneizel only helped pulled it along (another "pawn", as Lelouch would put it). Schneizel was not responsible for Lelouch's death since Lelouch planned on dying from the start.
    so you telling me lelouch planned on Schneizel revealing his identity to the black knights, have them come try to kill him, knowing that rolo will come and save him and sacrfice his life to help him escape, so that he can eventually meet up with suzaku and CC again in order to start "zero's requiem" wow he one hell of a genius to plan all that. Schneizel set off the chain of event that led to zero's requiem

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackrosetwilight View Post
    so you telling me lelouch planned on Schneizel revealing his identity to the black knights, have them come try to kill him, knowing that rolo will come and save him and sacrfice his life to help him escape, so that he can eventually meet up with suzaku and CC again in order to start "zero's requiem" wow he one hell of a genius to plan all that. Schneizel set off the chain of event that led to zero's requiem
    That basically sums it up. Schenizel took one too many steps by trying to become a "god" but it wasn't something that Lelouch was not planning to do himself anyway. And he made sure that Schneizel would continue to help with the reconstruction of the world (the Geass command was for Schneizel to serve Zero, not Lelouch).
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  14. #14
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    The whole thing about Zero or Lelouch reviving was something I was not sure what you were talking about since its obvious that both things happened by the end of the series; it something that clearly happened. Lelouch (as Lelouch vi Britannia) is revived since he came back presumably from the dead. He was able to convince that Zero (not Lelouch) was their true savior since it is Zero (as Suzaku) that kills him and is able to free the world from his tyrannical rule.

    When it comes to the whole shooting thing, you are seriously overthinking it. While Euphemia may not have had the knowledge to aim a gun in a non-vital area of his body, Lelouch would. He planned on getting shot, so he would have had this information from the start. If she didn't know where to shoot, Lelouch would have just pointed it put to her (however, I wil have to give Euphemia the benefit of the doubt that she, as a 16 year old member of the royal family, already knows where organs like the stomach are; she is not stupid). Also, the gun that he had was not a real gun. It was a ceramic needle gun. He was searched for weapons before he had has meeting with Euphemia but it was with metal detectors; they would not have picked up the needle gun. The needle gun was not fatal anyway. She shot Dalton in the gut and he survived for another two episodes before dying guring the battle of Tokyo (from an explosion, not his wounds). So, she could have shot anywhere and Lelouch would have been fine. He had a helmet, so dying from a headshot is out of the equation.

    The very fact that she had a gun pointed at Zero or even just having a gun in her possession would make Zero look like a martyr. She could have acted confused and sorry but this would have just looked like some sort of feint in the eyes of the Japanese. Why did she have a gun in the FIRST PLACE? Why was it pointed towards Zero? It would be even worse if Zero got shot (which was the original plan). She invited Zero to the ceremony and when he showed up, she agreed to a private meeting with him. So, it would look terrible if she tried to shoot him (ie the SAZ was a trap or a lie, Zero was a martyr, etc), whether she hit him or not.
    One of my ideas is that maybe Lelouch was so depressed by the SAZ plan that he just decided to smash everything up (which would probably be overreacting). He expected to be killed when shot and just told Euphie he would miraculously revive as a little white lie perhaps. Then Nunnally would be protectorless and there would be a revolution and everyone would live or die according to chance.
    But if it really was a non lethal ceramic needle gun, then Lelouch would expect to survive and command the fighting at the SAZ. If Euphemia was captured he could magnamonously forgive her or hold her hostage or kill her. You did write elsewhere: "Of course, one thing you seem to forget is the fact that Lelouch hates his half-siblings. He hates Clovis, he hates Cornelia, he hates Schneizel and he hates Euphemia."
    In our world ceramic guns are made as lethal weapons to smuggle past metal detectors. If Code Geass ceramic needle guns are non lethal what are they used for? Do little kids use them for target practice until they are strong enough to hold metallic "real" guns?
    And I still have some practical questions about the details of lelouch's plan. If Euphemia was going to shoot lelouch on the stage she would have to get the gun from her vheicle onto the stage. Lelouch couldn't just hand her the gun and say "shoot me now."!
    Of course Euphemia's guards wouldn't search her for concealed wapons, but she didn't dress very well for carrying concealed weapons. Maybe all Britannian girls carry derringers in leg holsters (nope, not the ones at Ashford Academy) or somewhere, just in case they have to shoot a number. So Lelouch could tell Euphemia to replace her derringer with his needle gun and pull it on him at the right time.[/quote]
    So maybe that is why the more reactionary Britannians disttrust Euphemia. "Why doesn't she dress properly so she can carry more than one concealed weapon at a time like a decent Britannian girl?""
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-06-2009 at 09:16 PM.

  15. #15
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    One of my ideas is that maybe Lelouch was so depressed by the SAZ plan that he just decided to smash everything up (which would probably be overreacting). He expected to be killed when shot and just told Euphie he would miraculously revive as a little white lie perhaps. Then Nunnally would be protectorless and there would be a revolution and everyone would live or die according to chance.
    But if it really was a non lethal ceramic needle gun, then Lelouch would expect to survive and command the fighting at the SAZ. If Euphemia was captured he could magnamonously forgive her or hold her hostage or kill her. You did write elsewhere: "Of course, one thing you seem to forget is the fact that Lelouch hates his half-siblings. He hates Clovis, he hates Cornelia, he hates Schneizel and he hates Euphemia."
    In our world ceramic guns are made as lethal weapons to smuggle past metal detectors. If Code Geass ceramic needle guns are non lethal what are they used for? Do little kids use them for target practice until they are strong enough to hold metallic "real" guns?
    And I still have some practical questions about the details of lelouch's plan. If Euphemia was going to shoot lelouch on the stage she would have to get the gun from her vheicle onto the stage. Lelouch couldn't just hand her the gun and say "shoot me now."!
    Of course Euphemia's guards wouldn't search her for concealed wapons, but she didn't dress very well for carrying concealed weapons. Maybe all Britannian girls carry derringers in leg holsters (nope, not the ones at Ashford Academy) or somewhere, just in case they have to shoot a number. So Lelouch could tell Euphemia to replace her derringer with his needle gun and pull it on him at the right time.
    So maybe that is why the more reactionary Britannians disttrust Euphemia. "Why doesn't she dress properly so she can carry more than one concealed weapon at a time like a decent Britannian girl?""
    Your first idea is not even valid. Lelouch was not suicidal over the SAZ. He was was pissed off more than anything. He was certainly not depressed. The first thing he wanted to do was get to Euphemia and carry out his plan of having her shoot him. He did not want to die at that point. That would ruin the whole plan.

    How lethal the ceramic gun is does not really matter. She was able to kill one person with it, but it was an old man and she shot him in the chest. She also shot Dalton in the in the side but he was able to survive the wounds for about to more episodes before dying in Tokyo (because of his Knightmare blowing up, not his wounds). Lelouch might have been wearing protection of some kind. However, he did not have to be wounded. The very fact that Euphemia agreed to a private meeting with Zero but then turned around and shot him would make him look like a martyr.

    And I do not understand your questions. Lelouch was not going to hand her the gun while they were on stage. He was going to give it to her while he was in the room with her. That is why he requested the private meeting with her in the first place. And what evidence do you have to say that Britannian girls carry derringers with them? While this may be an idea of yours, you are basing a lot things off of this. Euphemia does not need to have a concealed weapon. She is barely in the public eye, much less IN PUBLIC, so why would she need a weapon (and that goes against her pacifistic attutide)? Plus, royal Britannian girls are able to choose Knights to protect them (even Cornelia, who can be seen on the front lines most of the time has a Knight), so why would these girls have guns on them? Cornelia may have several concealed weapons on her (a knife, a gun), but she is a soldier. Euphemia is not.

    Also, nobody (as far as Britannians go) distrusts Euphemia (she is a caring person; why not trust her?). If they do, they would certainly keep it to themselves, since, while Euphemia maybe a person to forgive, Cornelia is not and they would not want to make her mad: she is the Second Princess, the Viseroy of Area 11 and the General-in-Chief of the Britannian Army (yeah, making her angry is not the best idea). There are some people who do not like Euphemia but that is because of her naivite and her pacifistic stance. Her views of the world contradicts...well...EVERYBODY'S. Even Fifth Princess Carine le Britannia said that she hated Nunnally because of her pacifisim, so it wouldn't be to much of a stretch to say that she hated Euphemia too, although, since Euphemia is the Third Princess while Nunnally is the Eleventh, Carine may have pretended to like Euphemia while in her presence versus her constant hatred of Nunnally (especially with Cornelia around, who is higher in rank than Euphemia and twice Carine's age).
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  16. #16
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Your first idea is not even valid. Lelouch was not suicidal over the SAZ. He was was pissed off more than anything. He was certainly not depressed. The first thing he wanted to do was get to Euphemia and carry out his plan of having her shoot him. He did not want to die at that point. That would ruin the whole plan.

    How lethal the ceramic gun is does not really matter. She was able to kill one person with it, but it was an old man and she shot him in the chest. She also shot Dalton in the in the side but he was able to survive the wounds for about to more episodes before dying in Tokyo (because of his Knightmare blowing up, not his wounds). Lelouch might have been wearing protection of some kind. However, he did not have to be wounded. The very fact that Euphemia agreed to a private meeting with Zero but then turned around and shot him would make him look like a martyr.

    And I do not understand your questions. Lelouch was not going to hand her the gun while they were on stage. He was going to give it to her while he was in the room with her. That is why he requested the private meeting with her in the first place. And what evidence do you have to say that Britannian girls carry derringers with them? While this may be an idea of yours, you are basing a lot things off of this. Euphemia does not need to have a concealed weapon. She is barely in the public eye, much less IN PUBLIC, so why would she need a weapon (and that goes against her pacifistic attutide)? Plus, royal Britannian girls are able to choose Knights to protect them (even Cornelia, who can be seen on the front lines most of the time has a Knight), so why would these girls have guns on them? Cornelia may have several concealed weapons on her (a knife, a gun), but she is a soldier. Euphemia is not.

    Also, nobody (as far as Britannians go) distrusts Euphemia (she is a caring person; why not trust her?). If they do, they would certainly keep it to themselves, since, while Euphemia maybe a person to forgive, Cornelia is not and they would not want to make her mad: she is the Second Princess, the Viseroy of Area 11 and the General-in-Chief of the Britannian Army (yeah, making her angry is not the best idea). There are some people who do not like Euphemia but that is because of her naivite and her pacifistic stance. Her views of the world contradicts...well...EVERYBODY'S. Even Fifth Princess Carine le Britannia said that she hated Nunnally because of her pacifisim, so it wouldn't be to much of a stretch to say that she hated Euphemia too, although, since Euphemia is the Third Princess while Nunnally is the Eleventh, Carine may have pretended to like Euphemia while in her presence versus her constant hatred of Nunnally (especially with Cornelia around, who is higher in rank than Euphemia and twice Carine's age).
    If the needle gun was relatively harmless then the idea that Lelouch was suicidal must be false. But I still think that Lelouch was talking about reviving there in front of the Japanese instead of reappearing in Britannia. But reviving from a needle gun wound would not seem very miraculous, so perhaps Lelouch simply said that hoping to confuse Euphemia. She might waste a lot of time thinking about it.
    The idea that Britannian girls carry derringers-like guns is just a speculation. Probably they don't. What about Britaninan princesses? Lelouch had a good chance to find out in "Island of the Gods", in the scene where Euphemia was naked except for Zero's cloak wrapped around her, with her clothes laid on the sand. (I didn't notice any underwear. Was Lelouch playing with it behind the rock, or did she she oversleep and rush out of the palace half dressed that morning?) The clothes were dying from her swim to shore after being teleported into the ocean, I guess, though some fans speculate they might have had incestuous sex. Lelouch would have seen whether Euphemia had a weapon.
    Probably not.
    So after lelouch gave Euphie the gun in the G1 vehicle she would have to transport it to the stage.
    Lelouch and Euphemia could walk to the stage with Euphemia holding the gun, but that would make him look stupid for not noticing it before she shot at him.
    Euphemia could chase Zero to the stage waving the gun. But guards who saw her do that might think she wanted Zero shot and shoot at him.
    The next two options are better.
    Since Euphemia didn't dress for carrying concealed weapons very well, Lelouch might command her to put on a coat or jacket in the command vehicle. Everyone would wonder why she was wearing it until she pulled the gun out of a pocket.
    Better still, Lelouch could bring a leg holster (or simply some tape) and have Euphie carry the gun attached to her leg under her skirt, the best hiding place in her costume.
    I think the only other options for hiding the gun would be unpleasant.

    I'm sure everyone who knew Euphemia liked or even loved her, but that wouldn't stop those who disagreed with her from distrusting her opinions, like Lelouch in reverse. FDR probably had many rich, conservative, friends who liked him but considered him "a traitor to his class". There would have been a lot of conservative nobles in 1780s Austria loyal to Emperor Joseph II, and his personal friends, who considered his reforms dangerous to everything they held dear. So if Euphie had any reputation as a liberal or reformer she could have been politically distrusted by many of her closest friends and her siblings. General Darlton attended a meeting in epsiode 22 where Euphemia's "rebellion" was mentioned, as if proposing an innovative political plan was the same thing as attacking military bases.
    I think you should have said that Cornelia was a warrior, and Euphemia not. As princesses they are probably both sometimes soldiers, even if Cornelia leads from the front lines and Euphemia would probably be a staff officer at the main headquarters. As a pacifist she would want to help Britannia conquer the world and end war forever and to reduce the number of casualties as much as possible (especially needless civilian deaths like the presumed deaths of Lelouch and Nunnally), so she would have a motive to help plan and execute Cornelia's invasions with as little bloodshed as possible. Considering how needlessly bloody and destructive the Britannian invasion of Japan was, it should have been child's play to drastically reduce the casualties in later invasions, for someone motivated by sorrow for the deaths of Lelouch and Nunnnaly.
    At Narita Euphemia was in charge of the logistics, which would be especially heavy since the Britannians evacuated tens of thousands of civilians (probably at Euphemia's suggestion), and commanded the medical unit (probably because she cared about Britannians, honorary Britannians,and JLF prisoners all getting good medical attention), and made combat command decisions, and probably watched to make sure that Cornelia did not massacre the surrendered JLF personnel. So she may have been an experienced general, though not a warrior or a fighter. [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-09-2009 at 10:13 PM.

  17. #17
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    I know you are saying that the idea of Britannian girls carrying concealed derringers is just speculation but you are basing a lot on this idea that has zero evidence to it. Some it doesn't make sense. Euphemia would not be carrying a gun, not only because there is no evidence to say that it would be normal for someone of her rank to carry one, but also because it is against her very nature. Why search for a weapon on a person who is against conflict in the first place? This also causes problems with the idea of Lelouch giving Euphemia a leg holster. It wouldn't make sense for Euphemia to HAVE a leg holster (she doesn't have a gun and doesn't like using them) and she wouldn't be able to get at the holster (she would have to pull her dress almost all the way up in order to get at the holster, IF she is able to do that at all).

    Despite Euphemia having an open mind towards basically anybody, she does not have that many friends. Only a small number of people actually like her, let alone love her and most of the nobility can't stand her. The most known person would be Carine le Britannia who hates Nunnally and Euphemia, but she hate Euphemia more since, while both Nunnally and Euphemia are pacifists, Euphemia is more active about it. Pacifism is not just a political stance for Euphemia; it is part of her overall personality. When virtually every Britannian believes that their nation is the best, that they are above everyone in the world, especially the Numbers, it is hard to connect with someone who's views are completely opposite. Now, there are people who respect Euphemia, like Dalton and Guilford, however, all of the military respect Euphemia, since she is the Third Princess and the sub-Viceroy of Area 11. Sure, there may have been soldiers who didn't like Euphemia, but like I said before, they would have kept it to themselves (Euphemia is not the problem; Cornelia is).

    Just like with the "Britannian girls might carry derringers" idea, there is nothing to support the idea that all members of Britannian royalty serve in the Imperial Army in some way. Guinevere su Britannia, the First Princess, barely leaves the city of Pendragon, let alone serve in the military. The same went for First Prince Odysseus eu Britannia. As Crown Prince, he barely leaves Pendragon (he did leave for the engagement between him and Tianzi). Cornelia is the only member of the Imperial Family (that we know of) that actually serves in the Imperial Army. It would be a contradiction for Euphemia, a pacifist, to be a soldier. She doesn't like conflict of any sort, so she wouldn't be helping Britannia conquer the world (Britannia is doing this just fine without being peaceful about it). Also, Euphemia, Cornelia and the rest of the nobility do not think that Lelouch and Nunnally died as a result of the destruction of the invasion. They believe that the Japanese killed them after finding out their true identity (which we all know is not true and that Charles sent them there as political hostages).

    Also, I would not call Euphemia a "general" (Cornelia is a general and has almost 10 years on her sister). While she kept a cool head while in Narita, she was, technically, not in charge of anything while she was there. She only came to see what a battle looked like, not to serve. As sub-Viceroy, the military can defer to her if Cornelia is fighting or busy doing something else but she was not in charge of anything. Also, at the age of 16 and with only a few days of school under her belt, she would not be charge of something as mission critical as military logistics. That type of job goes to several people, not one just one person. If it did go to one person, it would be someone well experienced in military stratagy like Dalton, not Euphemia, who has virtually zero experience on the battlefield. She was not "in charge" of the medical unit (if there was one). She did point out that the G-1 was acting as a field hospital and that it should not move from battle (ordered by Cornelia, not Euphemia).
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    I know you are saying that the idea of Britannian girls carrying concealed derringers is just speculation but you are basing a lot on this idea that has zero evidence to it. Some it doesn't make sense. Euphemia would not be carrying a gun, not only because there is no evidence to say that it would be normal for someone of her rank to carry one, but also because it is against her very nature. Why search for a weapon on a person who is against conflict in the first place? This also causes problems with the idea of Lelouch giving Euphemia a leg holster. It wouldn't make sense for Euphemia to HAVE a leg holster (she doesn't have a gun and doesn't like using them) and she wouldn't be able to get at the holster (she would have to pull her dress almost all the way up in order to get at the holster, IF she is able to do that at all).

    Despite Euphemia having an open mind towards basically anybody, she does not have that many friends. Only a small number of people actually like her, let alone love her and most of the nobility can't stand her. The most known person would be Carine le Britannia who hates Nunnally and Euphemia, but she hate Euphemia more since, while both Nunnally and Euphemia are pacifists, Euphemia is more active about it. Pacifism is not just a political stance for Euphemia; it is part of her overall personality. When virtually every Britannian believes that their nation is the best, that they are above everyone in the world, especially the Numbers, it is hard to connect with someone who's views are completely opposite. Now, there are people who respect Euphemia, like Dalton and Guilford, however, all of the military respect Euphemia, since she is the Third Princess and the sub-Viceroy of Area 11. Sure, there may have been soldiers who didn't like Euphemia, but like I said before, they would have kept it to themselves (Euphemia is not the problem; Cornelia is).

    Just like with the "Britannian girls might carry derringers" idea, there is nothing to support the idea that all members of Britannian royalty serve in the Imperial Army in some way. Guinevere su Britannia, the First Princess, barely leaves the city of Pendragon, let alone serve in the military. The same went for First Prince Odysseus eu Britannia. As Crown Prince, he barely leaves Pendragon (he did leave for the engagement between him and Tianzi). Cornelia is the only member of the Imperial Family (that we know of) that actually serves in the Imperial Army. It would be a contradiction for Euphemia, a pacifist, to be a soldier. She doesn't like conflict of any sort, so she wouldn't be helping Britannia conquer the world (Britannia is doing this just fine without being peaceful about it). Also, Euphemia, Cornelia and the rest of the nobility do not think that Lelouch and Nunnally died as a result of the destruction of the invasion. They believe that the Japanese killed them after finding out their true identity (which we all know is not true and that Charles sent them there as political hostages).

    Also, I would not call Euphemia a "general" (Cornelia is a general and has almost 10 years on her sister). While she kept a cool head while in Narita, she was, technically, not in charge of anything while she was there. She only came to see what a battle looked like, not to serve. As sub-Viceroy, the military can defer to her if Cornelia is fighting or busy doing something else but she was not in charge of anything. Also, at the age of 16 and with only a few days of school under her belt, she would not be charge of something as mission critical as military logistics. That type of job goes to several people, not one just one person. If it did go to one person, it would be someone well experienced in military stratagy like Dalton, not Euphemia, who has virtually zero experience on the battlefield. She was not "in charge" of the medical unit (if there was one). She did point out that the G-1 was acting as a field hospital and that it should not move from battle (ordered by Cornelia, not Euphemia).
    You realize that the more you disprove my suggestion that Britannian girls, princessess, or Euphemia in particular, may have carried concealed weapons, the more you prove my point that Lelouch probably believed that Euphemia wouldn't have any way to carry one and he would have to provide not only the gun but the method of concealing it.
    So I think his best options would be to make her carry the gun in a pocket of a coat or jacket found in the G1 vehicle -- except that he couldn't knw for certain if theri were ny coats and jackets in it -- or else to bring some method of carrying a concealed weapon with him for Euphemia to use.
    Her guards wouldn't mind if she accompanied Zero to the stage pulling a little cart full of rifles, machine guns, pistols, rocket launchers, etc. but it would make Zero look stupid if she pulled a gun out of the cart and shot at him. If Zero acted like he trusted her after the audience had already begun to wonder what the purpose of the cart full of weapons was, he would seem a fool.
    Euphemia had to carry the gun concealed so that Zero would seem as surprised and deceived as the audience and no more stupid than they were. Since the audience members mostly considered themselves to be smart people, it would be alright for Zero's image if he was tricked as easy, but no easier, than the audience.
    I think a leg holster would be practical. Nobody would notice it while it was hidden uner Euphemia's dress, and if the movies and tv shows where I have seen them are any guide it would be easy for Euphemia to lift her dess and pull the gun out of the holster. I don't know why you wonder if Euphemia could even lift up her dress -- was she voted the weakest girl in the world or something?
    Anyway, this is an example of the imprtance of logistics, moving men and material, in war, since moving that little gun to the sage in a way which didn't make Zero seem stupid was crucal to the success of his plot to start a revolution.
    Confederate genral Nathan B. Forrestt, a brilliant cavalry tactician, paid trubute to the importance of logistics when he said that his secret of victory wes getting there first with the most men (usually parphrased as "Git there firstest with the mostest").
    General George Crook, the most successful Indian fighter in the West, owed a lot of his sucess to his use of pack mules to carry supplies over rough terrain where wagons couldn't go, and raising the performance of his mule trains to the maximum.
    Lord Garnet Wolsey gained his first fame by skillfully transporting his troops in canoes hundreds of miles thourgh rivers and lakes to reach the seccessionst areas in Alberta, Canada in 1870. Then in the Ahsanti War he and his staff landed in the deadly fever-ridden coast, recruited native laborers to construct a road into Ashanti territory and other natives to guard them from the Ashanti, and when the healthy season came and the road was ready, landed his troops, marched them rapidly up the road, shot the Ashanti army to pieces in a few battles, captured the capital, declared victory, and marched his soldiers back to the coast and sailed them away before the deadly fever season could begin.
    In the US Civil War General Henry Halleck was commander of the US army from 1862 to 1864 and chief of staff of the US army under General Grant from 1864 to 1865. General Hermann Haupt built up the army's military railroad system to carry immense loads of men and supplies. General Montgmery Meigs, the Quartermaster General, made the rapidly-growing Union army much better supplied than the Confederate enemy. They were very important to the war effort, despite hardly ever being in combat.
    In World War II General George Marshall, the US army chief of staff, and General Eisenhauer, supreme allied comander in Europe, were very important leaders despite never being in combat.
    I say that Euphemia was a much of a general at the Battle of Narita as Cornelia was, though of a very different type. As I remember Cornelia's conversation with Guildford in "Guren Dances",Cornelia said that Euphemia would handle (or manage) the logistics and oommand the medical unit. Commanding the medical unit is certainly commanding something, and Euphemia would have to command someone, presumably transport units, to be in charge of the logistics. Unless my memory is wrong, Euphemia was commanding someone.
    I don't know much about the Britannian comand structure at Narita. Cornelia was obviously in supreme command, and General Darlton and at least one other general commanded units under her. Cornelia probably should have commanded from the G1 vehicle but her style was to lead from the front. Thus her second in command should have been at the G1 vehicle but apparently all the other generals were the lead from the front type also. The officers in the G! vehicle with Euphemia may have been the logistical offiers under her supervision.
    As I remember, when Cornelia was cut off by the landslide and in danger, the officers told Euphemia that they must move the G1 vehicle forward to assist Cornelia. Euphemia told them that they musn't because the field hospital was there and the area where they had moved the civilians. And she added that Cornelia had ordered them not to move the vehicle.
    It looks to me like the officers believed the situation was so desperate they would have disobeyed Cornelia's orders if Euphemia had let them. And I think Euphemia would have charged off to rescue Cornelia despite Cornelia's orders if the civilians hadn't been in the way. Unless my memory is faulty, Euphemia was clearly making combat command decisions then and when she gave permission for Suzaku to engage. [/quote]

  19. #19
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    woot woot woot!!!! you two keep it up

  20. #20
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackrosetwilight View Post
    woot woot woot!!!! you two keep it up
    Thank you for appreciating our discussion/arguement.
    I just saw "Guren Dances" again and Lelouch told the Black Knights that a messiah has to pull off miracles. So that makes me think even more he was talking about being a messiah to the Japanese and not the Britannians. But reviving from a needle gun shot probably wouldn't seem very miraculous.
    So I suggest maybe he was trying to confuse Euphie and any Britannian leaders she might tell about his comment. They might waste time trying to figure out if Zero really could miraculously revive.
    This seems kind of weak to me. I just now thought that perhaps Lelouch's statement survived from an earlier draft script. Perhaps Lelouch was originally planned to have CC's power to revive and somebody forgot to take that statement out of the script when that idea was dropped.
    Even if that idea is true, it would be good to have an in-universe explanation of what Lelouch ment, whether Lelouch thought that it was true or a lie, and whether it actually would be true or false. [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-13-2009 at 08:13 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by proEuphie View Post
    Thank you for appreciating our discussion/arguement.
    I just saw "Guren Dances" again and Lelouch told the Black Knights that a messiah has to pull off miracles. So that makes me think even more he was talking about being a messiah to the Japanese and not the Britannians. But reviving from a needle gun shot probably wouldn't seem very miraculous.
    So I suggest maybe he was trying to confuse Euphie and any Britannian leaders she might tell about his comment. They might waste time trying to figure out if Zero really could miraculously revive.
    This seems kind of weak to me. I just now thought that perhaps Lelouch's statement survived from an earlier draft script. Perhaps Lelouch was originally planned to have CC's power to revive and somebody forgot to take that statement out of the script when that idea was dropped.
    Even if that idea is true, it would be good to have an in-universe explanation of what Lelouch ment, whether Lelouch thought that it was true or a lie, and whether it actually would be true or false.
    I can sort of imagine that. In "Guren Dances", took the whole messiah thing as more rhetorical than anything else. His group was losing faith in him when they were surrounded so he had to make a miracle in order for people to believe him (this was already the plan anyway). I think this makes some sense when in "Bloodstained Euphie" he told a Japanese woman that he was not the messiah of Japan that they all thought he was.

    In regard to your previous post, I don't Euphemia is so weak that she can lift up dress fabric. I was just saying that using a leg holster in the traditional place would require that she left up almost the entire side of her dress, keep the fabric up and draw the gun. You do not need a lot of strength to do this, however, it is extremely difficult to do in the type of dress that she is wearing (a knife would be great, but a gun would not be the best thing). Now if she put the holster lower on her leg, it would be much easier (although it still would not explain WHY Euphemia, a pacifist, was carrying a gun in the first place).

    When it comes to the Battle of Narita, I will admit I was wrong about one thing. Euphemia was put in command of the medical unit by Cornelia; I forgot since we never actually see her carry out this duty. Euphemia was to provide logistical support, but not put in charge of logistics itself. Like I said before, Euphemia is (was) only 16 and had never seen combat, let alone knew anything about combat strategy. Commanding a medical unit (if she actually got to do this at all) hardly makes her a general. A well trained leader, but certainly not a general. She couldn't move the G1 not just because of the civilians, but because the G1 was a field hospital and because her sister TOLD her not to move, not because that was a decision made on her own. Also, it is hard to tell if her sending the Lancelot out was a tactical decision or because she found Suzaku cute (she was staring at him the whole time during the conversation; she barely heard a word that Lloyd said, if she heard him at all).

    Britannian combat command structure (from what I have seen) is not that much different from real militaries and ones in different anime (Sunrise would know about this). Cornelia was Chief General of the Imperial Army. She would be on the front lines (if she was just a Viceroy, she would most likely stay in the G1). All command falls on her, however, different units are responsible for different things. Cornelia is not involved in logistics while on the battle field. That job goes to logistics officers. Euphemia was not commanding these officers.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 03-15-2009 at 01:21 AM.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie is infamous around these parts proEuphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    I can sort of imagine that. In "Guren Dances", took the whole messiah thing as more rhetorical than anything else. His group was losing faith in him when they were surrounded so he had to make a miracle in order for people to believe him (this was already the plan anyway). I think this makes some sense when in "Bloodstained Euphie" he told a Japanese woman that he was not the messiah of Japan that they all thought he was.

    In regard to your previous post, I don't Euphemia is so weak that she can lift up dress fabric. I was just saying that using a leg holster in the traditional place would require that she left up almost the entire side of her dress, keep the fabric up and draw the gun. You do not need a lot of strength to do this, however, it is extremely difficult to do in the type of dress that she is wearing (a knife would be great, but a gun would not be the best thing). Now if she put the holster lower on her leg, it would be much easier (although it still would not explain WHY Euphemia, a pacifist, was carrying a gun in the first place).

    When it comes to the Battle of Narita, I will admit I was wrong about one thing. Euphemia was put in command of the medical unit by Cornelia; I forgot since we never actually see her carry out this duty. Euphemia was to provide logistical support, but not put in charge of logistics itself. Like I said before, Euphemia is (was) only 16 and had never seen combat, let alone knew anything about combat strategy. Commanding a medical unit (if she actually got to do this at all) hardly makes her a general. A well trained leader, but certainly not a general. She couldn't move the G1 not just because of the civilians, but because the G1 was a field hospital and because her sister TOLD her not to move, not because that was a decision made on her own. Also, it is hard to tell if her sending the Lancelot out was a tactical decision or because she found Suzaku cute (she was staring at him the whole time during the conversation; she barely heard a word that Lloyd said, if she heard him at all).

    Britannian combat command structure (from what I have seen) is not that much different from real militaries and ones in different anime (Sunrise would know about this). Cornelia was Chief General of the Imperial Army. She would be on the front lines (if she was just a Viceroy, she would most likely stay in the G1). All command falls on her, however, different units are responsible for different things. Cornelia is not involved in logistics while on the battle field. That job goes to logistics officers. Euphemia was not commanding these officers.
    We don't seem to be communicating very well about the leg holster thing and why Euphemia would be wearing one. In my idea she would be wearing one because Zero brought one and commanded her to wear it. If she wore it low enough to draw the gun easily but high enough to be hidden by her dress, nobody else would notice it or wonder why she wore it. After she drew the gun everyone would assume that she wore the leg holster as part of her evil plan to kill Zero.
    So how do you think that Lelouch planned the small but vital task of getting the gun to the stage without Zero seeming foolish or stupid when Euphemia tired to shoot Zero?
    And Euphemia would have to be in charge of at least part of the logistics at Narita. If she stayed in the G1 but provided logistics support she would have been in charge of somebody who was moving stuff around the battlefield.
    I think you are wrong to say that the G1 was being used as a field hospital. Euphemia said that one of the field hospitals was ahead of the G1. I think there was an establishing shot of a field hospital at Narita dealing with the killed and wounded from the landslide in one of the following episodes, a lot of tents arranged in neat rows, if I remember right.
    And I think that the officers in the G1 could have been courtmartialled if Euphemia was not clearly their immediate superior.
    I believe they said: "Subviceroy, you must act. Move the G1 forward to assist Cornelia." and she said "No." And they said that Viceroy Cornelia was surrounded and in danger of being captured and they must go to her aid. And Euphie said that they mustn't that one of their field hospitals was ahead and the area where they had moved the civilians from all the area. Then she added that the G1 was their general hq and Cornelia had ordered her not to move it.
    If Euphemia was not the highest commander they were in contact with at the moment, if she was just a guest or observer, obeying her orders would be a court martial offense.
    Why would Euphemia send Suzaku out to fight and possibly be killed if she found him cute (and she was already wondering what he thought about her in "Refrain")? I think that the cuter she thought he was the less likely she would be to risk his life, and that is why it took her a minute to decide to send him in. She didn't want to send him into danger, but she finally decided she had to do it to help Cornelia. And whatever her motives, it was a decision with tactical results, which she made, which Lloyd thought she had the authority to make, which the officers who opposed it did not deny that she had authority to make -- which would have been a courtmartial offense for them if she didn't have authority. It sure sounds like she made a combat tactical decision with proper authority to do so.
    You say Euphie was only 16 and had never seen combat, let alone knew anything about combat strategy. Modern officers usually learn about combat strategy in school before they see combat.
    And she might have been only 16 but she was only 10 months and 6 days younger than Lelouch, the great military genius, according to their official birthdates. And Euphemia, unlike Lelouch, could take advantage of being Cornelia's sister. Maybe she accompanied Cornelia to command school and sat beside her and listened to the lectures and learned a lot more than most people would expect.
    And Euphie may have been only 16 but a lot of real armies have been commanded by boys 16 and younger.
    Cornelia and Euphemia were both princesses who could serve as military leaders. And though Cornelia did so much more often that Euphemia, I think that at the Battle of Narita Euphemia was just as much of a general as Cornelia. [/quote]
    Last edited by proEuphie; 03-15-2009 at 11:07 PM.

  23. #23
    Junior Member Rorschach' is infamous around these parts Rorschach' is infamous around these parts Rorschach' is infamous around these parts Rorschach' is infamous around these parts Rorschach' is infamous around these parts Rorschach' is infamous around these parts Rorschach''s Avatar
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    Lelouch was talking in the sense of Zero's symbolism if Euphy shot him he would "revive" and her words would mean nothing. You can't kill a symbol the only way to win is to destroy what it stands for.

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    Umm, everyone in Japan knows Lelouch is still alive, haha. They were joking about a new season with Suzaku as Zero and Lelouch playing minor roles here and there (probably not going to happen tho). The reason? Lelouch got his father (the Emperor's) code when he defeated him, which the Emperor got from V.V. This is why he was able to implant memories (the Emperor's former ability) into Nunally as he was "dying" at the end (he shows her the behind the scenes, with Suzaku and him talking about the plan, etc. and she reacts to that truth).

    At the VERY end, C.C. is seen on a wagon, and says "Right, Lelouch?" and tilts her head up towards the driver, who has Lelouch's stature. Also, in the context of what she was saying, she's saying that she was wrong to say that those with the power of Geass will be lonely. (i.e. Lelouch and her are eloping happily together ever after).

    Guess those things get lost in translation or maybe were a little too un-noticeable for some.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kreuzian View Post
    Umm, everyone in Japan knows Lelouch is still alive, haha. They were joking about a new season with Suzaku as Zero and Lelouch playing minor roles here and there (probably not going to happen tho). The reason? Lelouch got his father (the Emperor's) code when he defeated him, which the Emperor got from V.V. This is why he was able to implant memories (the Emperor's former ability) into Nunally as he was "dying" at the end (he shows her the behind the scenes, with Suzaku and him talking about the plan, etc. and she reacts to that truth).

    At the VERY end, C.C. is seen on a wagon, and says "Right, Lelouch?" and tilts her head up towards the driver, who has Lelouch's stature. Also, in the context of what she was saying, she's saying that she was wrong to say that those with the power of Geass will be lonely. (i.e. Lelouch and her are eloping happily together ever after).

    Guess those things get lost in translation or maybe were a little too un-noticeable for some.
    Not this theory again. Sorry, but Lelouch is quite dead. The writers confirmed it. Also:

    1. Codes are not given to people merely because they defeat them (that would be impossible for the most part since these people are immortal; Lelouch is probably the first to do so). Codes are transferred between the two people who made the contract (either forced or otherwise). Lelouch can't steal Charles' Code because he never made a contract with him. And even if he did, Geass powers are not stolen, since the person who had the Code lost whatever Geass they had when they obtained the Code in the first place.

    2. Taking the Code honestly defeats the entire purpose of the Zero Requiem: taking in all that has happened (Euphemia's death, the massacre, Shirley's death, Nunnally's use of F.L.E.I.J.A, etc) and placing it on his shoulders, paying for what he has done, and setting the world on a track for peace. Becoming immortal defeats that purpose.

    3. Lelouch can't "implant memories" into Nunnally if he has the Code. As I said before, a person either has a Geass or a Code; they can't have both at the same time. C.C lost her Geass when she got the Code and Charles lost his Geass when he got the Code. Nunnally is able to sense a lot from a person just from touching them and most likely understood what Lelouch was doing. If she learned "the truth" (as in, if he took the Code), she wouldn't be crying over his death.

    4. The scene you are referring to is actually a cropped image someone spread on the internet. If you watch the actual episode (all of it), not only do you never see the driver's face, when C.C says "Right, Lelouch", the episode ends pretty much at that moment, save for a look at origami crane (this is not the first time C.C has talked to herself). In fact, some videos contradict themselves. You either see the driver's face, then C.C (which is not true; again watch the entire episode) or you see C.C look up and then see the driver. You never see both events happen in the same video.

    5. The writers confirmed Lelouch's death...multiple times. Between interviews and magazine articles, they have said over and over that Lelouch is dead. Even the official guidebook for Code Geass (written by the writers, of course) pronounced him dead.
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