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Thread: War in Iraq

  1. #1
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    Default War in Iraq

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...02968312745410

    This is what is really going on in the war in Iraq. This is all true. May not be aproprate for younger viewers. Verses are all dirct from the KORAN. Kinda graphic. What do you think? Does the view on the war change now?

    This is the film by Geert Wilders. He's a Dutch writer who is now under protection from the Islamists in the Netherlands.

    This is the film that has the EU and the Muslim world with their pants in a wad right now.
    Most websites have removed it, including You Tube.
    ALL bowing to threats.
    Google still has it posted as of today but, will probably bow to pressure soon.
    Can be a little tough to watch in spots. But this is really what we are up against.

  2. #2
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    I would off watched it but i got bored. and its depressing.

  3. #3
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    Considering Iraq did not attack America, no.

    note: didn't watch, browsed through a few points of the movie. Seems like a Koran quote, followed by shock images.

    'merica needs to hurry up and claim the oil.
    Last edited by Kojack; 09-30-2008 at 12:12 PM.

  4. #4
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    We should have never went to Iraq and we should have never went to war. And I have always believed this, and the video didn't change my cause. The moment we went to war I said, oh crud.

  5. #5
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    /me lulz at America's mini-Viet Nam

  6. #6
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    i never understood why people started fighting in the first place
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninja legend View Post
    i never understood why people started fighting in the first place
    Resources, resources, resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat View Post
    Resources, resources, resources.
    i guess so
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  9. #9
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    I really don't like the war in iraq. It could of been avoided.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat View Post
    Resources, resources, resources.
    It's more than that. War is also a way of artificially inflating the demand for products and resources, thus giving the economy a boost. Though, it's like the boy who cried wolf, if you do it too many times, it will stop working. Which is what we're seeing right now.



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  11. #11
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    There are lots of reasons for war. Resources, overpopulation, power, ideology, religeon.

    But at any rate this video doesn't have to do with the war in Iraq overmuch, especially the getting into it in the first place part.

    And obviously "westernized" muslims don't feel that way. We've got millions in the US and even with everything that's been going on we haven't seen a terror attack in ages and the ones we did have were from people from other countries origionally.

    However it should make you concerned about a nuclear Iran, especially the bits where their president is talking.

  12. #12
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    Actually, I speculate nukes is probably the main reason we have international terrorism looking like it does today. Since declaring old fashioned war against a country with an nuclear arsenal will guarantee that your country takes a swim in a sea of mushroom clouds quicker than you can say "Mutually Assured Destruction", it's very convenient to be able slip your local fanatics money and weapons under the table, and have them fight for you -- while you deny any involvement.



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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Actually, I speculate nukes is probably the main reason we have international terrorism looking like it does today. Since declaring old fashioned war against a country with an nuclear arsenal will guarantee that your country takes a swim in a sea of mushroom clouds quicker than you can say "Mutually Assured Destruction", it's very convenient to be able slip your local fanatics money and weapons under the table, and have them fight for you -- while you deny any involvement.
    Nah. That wold make sense. But the countries sponsering terrorism couldn't threaten us, or even Israel really, through conventional means in the first place. So the nukes are fairly irrelevant.

    But yes I'm sure they'd rather invade Israel with overwhelming force as opposed to just blowing up women shopping in the market now and then.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    There are lots of reasons for war. Resources, overpopulation, power, ideology, religeon.
    So in other words:
    Resources, getting more resources to continue growing, having the ability to control more resources, and two things that tell you you have the obligation to take other people's resources. Splitting hairs much?

    But at any rate this video doesn't have to do with the war in Iraq overmuch, especially the getting into it in the first place part.

    And obviously "westernized" muslims don't feel that way. We've got millions in the US and even with everything that's been going on we haven't seen a terror attack in ages and the ones we did have were from people from other countries origionally.

    However it should make you concerned about a nuclear Iran, especially the bits where their president is talking.
    Well, I heard about a terror attack on American soil just the other day. Of course, it was to Muslims and not from Muslims. Great job, America! Show them Muslim babies who's boss!
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat View Post
    "Resources, resources, resources".
    Quotation marks needed for alleged ideas.
    I think it's more than resources.I can tell you I'm going to steal money from you to buy a samich, but what proof do you have I didn't buy cigarettes w/ it?

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    Im almost afraid to ask but, why?
    Why war?
    Just...WHY!?
    Although, I must say that I would much rather us have war over there than over here in America.
    Not that I agree with war in the first place or anything.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finvarra View Post
    Im almost afraid to ask but, why?
    Why war?
    Just...WHY!?
    Although, I must say that I would much rather us have war over there than over here in America.
    Not that I agree with war in the first place or anything.
    Because war is like a sandwhich w/ mayonaise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
    Quotation marks needed for alleged ideas.
    I think it's more than resources.I can tell you I'm going to steal money from you to buy a samich, but what proof do you have I didn't buy cigarettes w/ it?
    That's still resources. Whether you use them yourself, or trade them for something you want more doesn't matter. You don't invade a country on a whim- you want something. That something could be people, iron, oil, uranium... whatever. It's a rather simple concept.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Radical religious zealots are frightening indeed. The part that scared me the most was the sign that said "BE PREPARED FOR THE REAL HOLOCAUST." We can't allow any of these crazed governments that claim they're going to destroy Israel get any sort of nuclear power.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
    Quotation marks needed for alleged ideas.
    I think it's more than resources.I can tell you I'm going to steal money from you to buy a samich, but what proof do you have I didn't buy cigarettes w/ it?
    I think a few of you need to actually sit down and consider what resources may entail. You are the third person now I've seen basically splitting hairs and basically just saying the same thing in a different, unnecessarily longer way.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat View Post
    I think a few of you need to actually sit down and consider what resources may entail. You are the third person now I've seen basically splitting hairs and basically just saying the same thing in a different, unnecessarily longer way.
    You've missed my point.
    You can go in looking for oil and say your making progress, but there might be other reasons as to what your really looking for.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
    You've missed my point.
    You can go in looking for oil and say your making progress, but there might be other reasons as to what your really looking for.
    Ah, my bad then.

    But, although the topic is about the Iraq war, my comment was more so directed towards the top reasons for war in general, right alongside territorial expansion, those two being the most common causes.

  23. #23
    Yoko Littner Fan Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    So in other words:
    Resources, getting more resources to continue growing, having the ability to control more resources, and two things that tell you you have the obligation to take other people's resources. Splitting hairs much?
    First, there is a difference between putting y in terms of x and saying y = x. There is a substantial difference between "having the ability to control more resources" and "having more resources".
    In the end, you're simplifying things to a point where your fundamental reason for all wars bares no fruit. Why not just say "People have wars because they think they should do so."? Sunnyside isn't splitting hairs but elaborating to a reasonable extent.

    Second, your definitions are fail.

    With overpopulation, explain to me how lowering the population leads to "getting more resources to continue growing". Manpower is a resource, and killing them is opposite to growth.

    Why even state that religions and ideologies are "things that tell you you have and obligation to take other people's resources."? That's so absurdly biased and inaccurate that even you know it is false. Just blatantly say "I hate religion" out of nowhere and be done with it.




    As far as this topic goes, I do believe there are a bunch or radical Islamic factions in the middle east, and their actions are far more heinous than those of modern Christian factions.
    That being said, I don't think the U.S. is obligated to do anything about it, especially since the international community is sitting on their thumbs for the most part.
    The war on terrorism is being fought through military force when it is a war that can only be fought with reason. If you have any faith in humanity, why worry about the proliferation of absurd ideologies? (In the case you don't have faith in humantiy, why not just be completely apathetic?)
    When it comes to the Iraq war, I believe that our initial entry was justified based on the high suspicion of WMDs and level of support given by the American people and the federal legislative branch. I don't believe that our continued occupation after not being able to find WMDs was just though. The idea that Bush had to come up with another reason for the war is absurd. He should have just said "All suspicions terminated, we're leaving". I would have been satisfied with that.

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    ChibiFireAngel was here dieing25 is infamous around these parts dieing25's Avatar
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    This is really what the world is up ageinst and frankly it scares me. This is never going to stop. They are teaching thier littler kids things that are just wrong.

    "Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

    "If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

    "Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)

    "Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

    "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

    "If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

    "O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)

    "When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)

    "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)

    "When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)

    "In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)

    "How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)

    "Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)


    Islam - The Religion Of Peace
    http://www.al-islami.com/islam/religion_of_peace.php

    1. Introduction.

    Today, many non-Muslims regard Islam as a religion that promotes violence, terrorism and war. Unfortunately, they rely in their view of Islam on the general media, which is not always accurate in reporting the news. Many media outlets, such as TV, radio, newspapers and magazines, are influenced by their investors or owners who have certain agendas and who want to promote certain values and points of view. Other media outlets are simply after the "big story", in order to make more money and more profits. Others are simply "followers", who only gather news from other sources, re-package it and try to sell it again purely as a business.

    In all these cases, the news reporting is not accurate, but is driven by ulterior motives or simply by profits. Only very few media organizations are committed to providing accurate and true information, regardless of financial gain. Therefore, people today should be very careful in what they take from the media.

    Before blindly accepting what the TV, radio or newspaper is reporting, one should think critically about what is being reported. Is this being reported accurately, or is it being exaggerated or even completely fabricated? Who are these people reporting the news, and do they have vested interests to report the story in a certain way, or are they completely objective and fair? Critical thinking is very important in all aspects of life, especially when it comes to accepting the media reports about important and controversial issues.

    Islam is in fact a religion that promotes peace and understanding among people of all faiths, and it strongly prohibits all forms of violence and aggression against all people regardless of their faith or race.

    And they call islam the religion of peace.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    First, there is a difference between putting y in terms of x and saying y = x. There is a substantial difference between "having the ability to control more resources" and "having more resources".
    In the end, you're simplifying things to a point where your fundamental reason for all wars bares no fruit. Why not just say "People have wars because they think they should do so."? Sunnyside isn't splitting hairs but elaborating to a reasonable extent.
    Having resources naturally implies the ability to control them, or else you wouldn't "have" them now would you? Resources are a form of power, whether that power is military (guns and soldiers) or economic (trade goods). I could just as easily say that all wars are fought over the acquisition of power, but instead I am drawing away from such intangibles and saying that war is fundamentally an economic exercise.

    With overpopulation, explain to me how lowering the population leads to "getting more resources to continue growing". Manpower is a resource, and killing them is opposite to growth.
    I assumed the person I was quoting was talking about obtaining land and resources to alleviate the pressures of overpopulation, but even if we did mean sending your people off to die that would still add to one's resources. Starving people are a drain on your economy and worth little as a resource. Sending them off to die is analogous to reducing extraneous costs to increase your profit margin. That said, I can't think of a single country in history that has sent people off purely to get killed- there has always been an overreaching agenda, ergo your inturpretation isn't a cause of war.

    Why even state that religions and ideologies are "things that tell you you have and obligation to take other people's resources."? That's so absurdly biased and inaccurate that even you know it is false. Just blatantly say "I hate religion" out of nowhere and be done with it.
    Of course, we were talking in context about Religion and ideologies used as a cause of war, not Religion and ideologies used as an excuse to seek peace. See: World War II and The Crusades. Ideology (In this case Nazism) and/or Religion in both cases lead people to believe it was their right to loot and control the enemy.
    Last edited by Manhattan_Project_2000; 10-01-2008 at 11:14 AM. Reason: Clarification
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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