Americans new anime is crap, what do you think?

[Amray The II]

All countries are different. Japan is a country that just happens to enjoy much more maturer themes than that of America. It is true that America do make more child aimed animations because they care deeply about the way their young grow up, but I do not see Japanese children killing eachother or having ninja style fights with shurikens and such. It is just adaption.

Here in Britain common channels sometimes put 18+ movies on at just 3PM. In America that is probably counted as a sin. We all have our own cultures and enjoyable themes. Japan happen to be amazing at producing amazing adultic animations that have become famous worldwide that even children watch. Hellsing here is a 15+. In Japan it is what we know as a PG. (Parental Guidance) which is the second to lowest certificate that is given here.

[Sanosuke23]

I've been thinking and I don't think the argument really is about which is superior in a one to one setting. I think it's more an argument about demographics.

God bless the guys who made GI Joe, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and all the other cartoons we grew up watching. They were great....when we were kids. But I'm an adult now, as are you and many other people in this forum. And as an adult, I want different things. I don't want a clear cut good vs evil. I want adult situations, adult emotions, adult plot, deeper colors, and more realism. And the only place to get that is unfortunately Anime.

No, really? Yeah of course there's more widespread adult animation in Japan compared to America, that wasn't the argument to begin with. It was one of maturity and sophistication. For example, you claimed that there were series that lacked any kind of themes an adult would be able to appreciate as an adult. This is not true, and I cited Daria for that because it's aimed at older teens/early twenties and as a slice-of-life/comedy series we can relate to a fair number of situations the show uses. As for depth and continuity, I cited Gargoyles. Have you ever gone back and watched that now? It's got a lot more going for it than you probably remember. Good and Evil AREN'T so clear cut in a lot of the cases there. They make a good number of recurring villains pretty fleshed out, and they deal with characters who are more shades of gray than black or white.

What I think the problem is, is that like many others you think violence, gore, profanity, and sex equals a mature, sophisticated story. This is not the case. Yes it's mature, but it's mature in the same way porn is mature. Kids shouldn't really watch it, but it isn't exactly going to enrich your life after watching it.

As long as Venture Brothers and Metalacolypse are the exception to the rule in America that animated productions are only for kids, I have to go overseas. It's an unfortunate fact.

To be fair I think mainstream animation in this country is dying out. The fact that Williams Street has so far ignored the fans demanding they make more Korgoth of Barbaria and instead flooded their programming block with TIM AND GODDAMNED ERIC CRAP shows that most companies are looking for cheap and easy more than quality. Cartoons are dying out, being replaced by what basically amounts to fifteen minutes in Flash.

Not an opinion but a fact that the widespread belief is that cartoons are for kids and anime is just japanese cartoons.

You see where I bolded it? Do you see? Here, I'll add an underline:

Not an opinion but a fact that the widespread belief is that cartoons are for kids and anime is just japanese cartoons.

RIGHT THERE IS THE GODDAMN PROBLEM WITH YOUR ARGUMENT HERE. You seem to think that because they're targeted at kids or families, that the majority of American cartoons are somehow lower than Japanese cartoons. THEY ARE NOT. THEY ARE ALL CARTOONS.

That sentence up there in quote tags is what we like to call a "blanket statement," in that it covers an issue in a very broad and general manner, like throwing a blanket over it. ALL anime is not Neon Genesis Evangelion. There are hundreds of anime that are so unbelievably throwaway we in the US will probably never see them. Even if we do, they're so vapid and uninteresting we won't care.

Compare that to The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack, which AT SURFACE LEVEL is aimed at children. However, did you ever stop to think about how and why they use "candy" to represent most of the seedier aspects of pirate/adventurer life like alcohol, drugs, sex, etc.? Have you ever taken a look at the West episode, and appreciated the hallucination scene as the psychedelic trip it is?

Hell, even CHOWDER has little nuances you probably kind of ignore because it's brightly colored and nobody drops the F bomb. Schnitzel is the most accurate depiction of an adult in cartoons EVER. He hates his job. he's got a hobby he likes but keeps separate from his work acquaintances, he goes out after work to relax, and he finds having to babysit his boss's kid a hassle because it isn't in his job description but he does it anyway because he needs the job. Compared to hot robot chick in the military or wacky harem series #238174863910, that's much more "sophisticated."

However, unlike you I don't treat it all as SERIOUS BUSINESS where one has to be clearly above the other. I can appreciate the nuances and good qualities of both without having to classify them as Japanese and American.

They're all just cartoons, dude.

[Deadeye31]

That's the problem. I don't want Chowder. I Don't want Gargoyles.I don't want drama or archetypes dressed up in flashy colors. I want realism. I want to see real friggin human beings! I want to see a sexy Cyborg who kicks butt and demands the admiration of all around her. I want to see how 5 kids deal with the power to annihilate space stations the size of cities. I want to see the drama that occurs when a guy can't get up the courage to tell a girl he loves her.

I don't want flashy colors. I don't want sponges or starfish or fairies or whatever the hell they are in Chowder's world. I want HUMAN FRIGGIN BEINGS! I don't want candy to be a metaphor for drugs. If the guy wants to smoke, let him friggin smoke!

In short, I don't want make believe characters and animals that skirt the line. I want to see human beings who go over and deal with the consequences. I want to see death, desctruction, emotion and how REAL human beings deal with it. I want it Rated R and in my face, not G and metaphored to all hell.

[Gjallarhorn]

That's the problem. I don't want Chowder. I Don't want Gargoyles.I don't want drama or archetypes dressed up in flashy colors. I want realism.

You must really hate most pre-90s anime, then. And most anime in general. Realism, and a lack of flashy colors is pretty far and few between. It's just that those far and few between series are the ones that get popular here in the West.

[Zycolette]

Well, it must be agreed that everyone has their own opinion. As soon as everyone realizes that I can begin to explain my own opinion.

I think that Japan does create some really great anime(RIP Osamu Tezuka) and cartoons. America does too in another form. These two are very different and should not be mixed up with one another. I'm implying that American's should not make a cartoon based on a Japanese shows. Neither should the Japanese. Well, not just the Japanese but any other countries.

[Sanosuke23]

That's the problem. I don't want Chowder. I Don't want Gargoyles.I don't want drama or archetypes dressed up in flashy colors. I want realism. I want to see real friggin human beings! I want to see a sexy Cyborg who kicks butt and demands the admiration of all around her. I want to see how 5 kids deal with the power to annihilate space stations the size of cities. I want to see the drama that occurs when a guy can't get up the courage to tell a girl he loves her.

I don't want flashy colors. I don't want sponges or starfish or fairies or whatever the hell they are in Chowder's world. I want HUMAN FRIGGIN BEINGS! I don't want candy to be a metaphor for drugs. If the guy wants to smoke, let him friggin smoke!

In short, I don't want make believe characters and animals that skirt the line. I want to see human beings who go over and deal with the consequences. I want to see death, desctruction, emotion and how REAL human beings deal with it. I want it Rated R and in my face, not G and metaphored to all hell.

Congratulations on using descriptions to negatively describe cartoons that describe most anime for the third time in this thread.

Also, congratulations on failing to make the connection that the anime YOU like and gravitate to is not indicative of ALL anime.

A third congratulations for failing to understand that you've been arguing that anime IN GENERAL is superior to American cartoons, which is just silly.

Finally, congratulations on wanting REAL people out of DRAWN entertainment.

I think I've made my point in this thread as much as I possibly can. Anything further would be like clotheslining a paraplegic.

[Memento Mori]

Deadeye31: You seem to think that just because it's from America, and not Japan, it's automatically kiddish, immature, and not worth watching past the age of 14.

Then you argue that anime is superior to it. And don't say you're not, because this entire time, you've been talking about how great anime is, and how cartoons are made with little effort.

First of all, I repeat this.

Anime was cartoon's baby.

So, basically, anime came from cartoons, if you think of them as two different things.

Japan just used a different style with it.

Second, anime is not superior to cartoons.

There will always be a cartoon that is better than a lot of anime, while there will always be an anime better than a lot of cartoons.

Why do I have to repeat myself?

Because you obviously don't get it.

Stop looking at anime like it's some grand form of unique artwork that deserves to rule the world, despite it not being a real person.

[Amray The II]

Anime was influenced from animations from Russia, Germany, France, and America. So this places as a major fact in the production and history of Japanimation. Although that is not to say that Japanimation would not exist at all to this day if other countries did not produce animation. But obviously it still would have taken a lot of years for them to begin with the idea. That can be said for many other countries too though. It is just that some parts of Europe and the United States happened to think of it first. I am sure that if Japan thought of it first then they would still have the same unique style that they have now, but I admit that that is just my own opinion. All countries produce animation with their own style, excluding the "Japanese influenced cartoons" produced in America. That is something that I still do not understand.

[Deadeye31]

What are you guys defending? I mean, is a 15 year old cartoon about Gargoyles and Chowder all we got? And those are suppose to compare to anything out of Japan? And don't get me started on Disney. They dropped the ball after they went CG only. Nowadays all they've got is Kung Fu panda and this space monkey movie.

IF you know of any serious attempts as something along the lines of the animes I've mentioned throughout this topic, then by all means let me know. Otherwise get this, it may not be superior just because it's from Japan, but Just because we make cartoons too doesn't mean we are just as good.

[Memento Mori]

Japan has a lot of crap, too, you know. O_o

Now you're acting like it's a superior country, or something.

Chowder and Gargoyles isn't all we ever had, if you're really that ignorant.

Avatar is a pretty deep show, Megas XLR was epicly awesome that still had a storyline, Samurai Jack was awesome, all from AMERICA.

We have our shows, and Japan has their's.

HOW many times must I repeat myself?!

[Sanosuke23]

When you're using NGE and Yu Yu Hakusho as arguments you lose the right to complain about how old a show I mention is, tbh.

[Deadeye31]

oh yeah, Samurai Jack. Yeah, that was awesomeness on paper. Almost forgot how much I loved that show though I never got to see the ending. Why can't we have more stuff like that?

[Sanosuke23]

Because Genndy Tartakovsky hates happiness.

[wolfgirl90]

You've heard of the terms A, B, and C ratings when it comes to movies. Like a Summer blockbuster has a bigger budget and bigger stars than a Sci-Fi channel movie so they are ranked appropriately. Well the same is true in animation. It may be a funny show, but the show doesn't rank as high because the budget, plot line and characters aren't as good. Sure, you get a laugh or two and may enjoy it (though I hate sci-fi channel level stuff) but Chin Chan is no Ghost in the Shell or Evangelion.

To use an analogy, why do you have Iron Man as your avatar? because that scene rocked genuinely. But you don't pick a scene from a made-for-TV movie because those scenes are of much less quality.

While its true that movies are often ranked based on the amount of money spent, that does not automatically make the higher budget movies of higher quality or more popular than those that took less money to make.

In fact, with that argument, you have made anime look like crap compared to American cartoons. Despite what you may see, anime does not have a higher animation budget than an American cartoon. It is actually much less than you think. It takes more money to make an episode of Spongebob Squarepants than it does to make episodes of most anime.

Anime is a form of "limited animation", which means that things such as shadows and light and camara tricks are used to trick the viewer into believing that more movement is happening than what is really there. The same technique is used in low-budget Saturday morning cartoons.

[Deadeye31]

But some how they manage to pull it off. If they did that for Ghost in the Shell, I don't care. Gundam Wing recycled a lot of footage but I think it was still awesome.

I don't really have anything against American made stuff. I just wish we had more animation like the ones from Japan. Though that would be both a blessing and a curse. It would be a curse in that Anime wouldn't be all that special anymore but a blessing that we get serious entertainment instead of all the slapstickery we have nowadays.

If there is one thing that can't possibly ever compare. Japanese Anime openings ROCK. I can't do it. I can't hate a single one of them. From Ghost in the Shell's Rise to Gundam Wing's Rythm emotion. It's simply incredible. The music seems to always fit PERFECTLY. It's the one flawless thing about anime: the music they use is both apropriate and extremely memerable.

[jtdlives]

I think we all just have to agree to disagree. By the way I'am looking forward to the new stars cartoon on cartoon network though it is in cgi. I still think anime is better.

[WolfShot]

I think we all just have to agree to disagree.

Unfortunately that's not how the world works. You can't quite agree and disagree at the same time [It's almost like putting oil in water and expecting the two to mix perfectly]. America and Japan will show what they both want to show, I will truthfully admit though that american cartoons are nothing like they used to be [ Ed, Edd and Eddy, Megas XLR (Thanks for the reminding Mori) and Pokemon (Use to be awesome) And Digimon]. But on another note Cartoons and Anime are different [Just cause they're both on paper doesn't mean a damn thing]. That's all for now, read and enjoy.

[Memento Mori]

Unfortunately that's not how the world works. You can't quite agree and disagree at the same time [It's almost like putting oil in water and expecting the two to mix perfectly]. America and Japan will show what they both want to show, I will truthfully admit though that american cartoons are nothing like they used to be [ Ed, Edd and Eddy, Megas XLR (Thanks for the reminding Mori) and Pokemon (Use to be awesome) And Digimon]. But on another note Cartoons and Anime are different [Just cause they're both on paper doesn't mean a damn thing]. That's all for now, read and enjoy.

It is true the quality of American cartoons this generation has gone downhill, but so has the quality of anime.

I have yet to see a more recent anime with a good story, not too many cliches, and good animation.

[Zombiliciouss]

The truth is: there will always be two sides of a coin. Some people will think american anime blows, some will think it is great. You are reading too much into his post shadow (no offense)

My opinion: American cartoons DO blow these days. I remember when they use to be good; but I respect other people's opinions

[Ai Hayakawa]

I hate that cartoon (I will not refer to it as anime, it insults anime), the character design is freakin horrible, I saw the first 10 min. of an episode, never watched it again. The story from the small amount of the episode I saw was retarded.

HORRIBLE CARTOON!!!!

You would be referring to Transformers:Animated... It would be more of an animated cartoon than Anime right?

[Sanosuke23]

It is true the quality of American cartoons this generation has gone downhill, but so has the quality of anime.

I have yet to see a more recent anime with a good story, not too many cliches, and good animation.

This. Everything kind of sucks in comparison to older stuff.

Actually now that I say that, if you compare Japanese and American stuff from the same time periods they're pretty similar quality.

[Amray The II]

It is true the quality of American cartoons this generation has gone downhill, but so has the quality of anime.

It depends. Kyoto Animation's animation is absolutely beautiful. On Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu (no, I am not using it because it is popular, so don't start complaining) the animation was incredible, not to mention the character designs and plot, and that anime is as recent as they come. The story was nothing amazingly in-depth but it was interesting. Unfortunetly people down-grade anime's that are popular these days because they are so overrated. I thought I would give this anime a try because I love all of the genres in which it had and I found it amazing.

I have yet to see a more recent anime with a good story, not too many cliches, and good animation.

Watch Black Blood Brothers if you have not done so already. Animation is decent, voice acting is superb, very recent, the Opening song is done old style, and it shows vamipric events that have not been shown on any other vampire anime that I have seen. The plot is also very in-depth and amazing. There is a majority of back tracking to the story tracing back to the early 19th century so that you can see more of what has happened and why the events that occur are happening in the present.

No clichés. Well..maybe one or two but that is it. Most of the anime is very unexpecting.

[Sanosuke23]

@Kajiwara: The secret to Haruhi's success is that it's based on a novel series. From what I'm told the books are more elaborate, and they kinda reverse-engineered the show into something more palatable for mainstream television.

Come to think of it, if someone did the same to, say, Harry Potter, I wonder how it would come out?

[Kagome]

Maa...quite the argument here...

While I will take no stand either way on whether anime from Japan is or isn't cartoons, I will say that the majority of American animation has been thrashed in by Japanese animation. If you look at nearly all of what is considered "good" American animation of today-you'll find that a *lot* of it has Japanese influences.

Gargoyles-though a late 90's Disney animation-(and undoubtedly my FAV show in its day) if you look in the credits you will see Japanese artist names within them! Lyke OMG NOWAI! It's true, however.

Avatar-Although *everyone* agrees it's not Japanese animation, it quite *obviously* reflects the popular art styles of the Japanese.

Power Puff Girls, Transformers, the new TMNT, the new X-men series' same deal. Whether we like it or not-American animators have gotten lazy and gone down from the great stuff it once had. I.E. Looney Tunes, Tail Spin, Doug, Rocco's Modern Life, Duck Tales, Darkwing Duck, Freakazoid, Batman the Animated Series, Superman, the Amazing Spider-Man etc... Pretty much everything early 90's and before was when American made animation was GOOD. Now-it relies far too much on our friends from across the pacific ocean.

And that's my two cents for now...>.>

[Diocletian]

Cave drawings will always surpass anime AND cartoons.

Silly bull there were homo-sapiens on the other side!You better hide!

That story is original.