Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

[Magelation]

Awesome cinematic trailer here.

What do you guys think? I'm half-tempted to get WoW just because of that. It's a pity that that might make Arthas a killable boss though =/

[Evockzi]

WoW is a good game... but Blizzard screwed it up... Period... they made Epic gear insanely easy to get which defeated the purpose. I might go back to playing if Wrath of the Lich king has some challenge.

First time watching that cinematic before though, pretty good alot better then the Burning Crusade, maybe even better then the first one.

[UnknownFav]

I've been waiting for this for a long time on the continue of Warcraft III but it's on World of Warcraft so maybe next time... I would play it... maybe.

[Magelation]

xD I've never played WoW either. IMO it's a soul-sucking game.

I wish they'd make this on the offline version too =|

[Sanosuke23]

WotLK shall be making me very happy, oh yes yes.

Norse/Celtic themes AND an overhaul for the Paladin class? You couldn't make Sano happier short of giving him a GM account and free reign to abuse it.

[Diocletian]

I've never played WOW yet I feel a connection right now.....

[Brewmaster]

I think they might ruin the fun of the game with this one.
I mean warriors will do insane damage with dual wielding two handers.Warlocks with unstoppable chaos magic that beats even the pally bubble.
Pallies doing insane damage like never before!Ive seen videos its insane.
Rogues doing shadow dance and doing stealt every few seconds.I mean wth that is gonna make something new out of ambush.Stun lock goodbye.
And i wont even name the rest.Dunno all those mighty skills sound fun and interesting but the game is not what it used to be.I will still be glad to see Arthas pwning everyone.
Oh and another thing.I expect it to be a massive Death Knight abuse lol its gonna be hundreds of them running around raising undead.It is gonna be madness!

[Kishiro]

I think they might ruin the fun of the game with this one.
I mean warriors will do insane damage with dual wielding two handers.Warlocks with unstoppable chaos magic that beats even the pally bubble.
Pallies doing insane damage like never before!Ive seen videos its insane.
Rogues doing shadow dance and doing stealt every few seconds.I mean wth that is gonna make something new out of ambush.Stun lock goodbye.
And i wont even name the rest.Dunno all those mighty skills sound fun and interesting but the game is not what it used to be.I will still be glad to see Arthas pwning everyone.
Oh and another thing.I expect it to be a massive Death Knight abuse lol its gonna be hundreds of them running around raising undead.It is gonna be madness!

There is a limit of one Death Knight per account per server. Regardless of faction or server type. So if you play on a PvE server, you must choose which faction your Death Knight will be on.

They are trying to do more to balance out pvp aspects of each class, but you will always have one class/spec that destroys another. PvP mechanics are for the most part based around group battles.

There will be balance. But the balance is meant for the appropriate level ranges and groups.

[Brewmaster]

There is a limit of one Death Knight per account per server. Regardless of faction or server type. So if you play on a PvE server, you must choose which faction your Death Knight will be on.

They are trying to do more to balance out pvp aspects of each class, but you will always have one class/spec that destroys another. PvP mechanics are for the most part based around group battles.

There will be balance. But the balance is meant for the appropriate level ranges and groups.

Yeah i know about the limit for DK but still there are gazillion of players.I think its gonna be insane.
Bah dunno about the balance.I think at first there will be some class that will own most of the others with no sweat.Especially warriors with the ability to get a chance on each critical hit to do execute.Now ain't that overpowered o_o

[Mousie]

Im what you would call a wow addict >.<
i play about 6 hours a day and cant wait for WOTLK hehe

gonna be awsome getting all my lkvl 70's to lvl 80
+ deathknight class ( looks awsome)

Yeah i know about the limit for DK but still there are gazillion of players.I think its gonna be insane.

Bah dunno about the balance.I think at first there will be some class that will own most of the others with no sweat.Especially warriors with the ability to get a chance on each critical hit to do execute.Now ain't that overpowered o_o

As to that
The most significant change to warriors IMO if they are arms spec will be the ability to duel-weild 2H weapons
Wich is going to make them insanely strong ,
If the characters Haste rating is reasonable the decrease in speed will make little difference
as u said in an earlier post

[Kishiro]

Im what you would call a wow addict >.<
i play about 6 hours a day and cant wait for WOTLK hehe

gonna be awsome getting all my lkvl 70's to lvl 80
+ deathknight class ( looks awsome)



As to that
The most significant change to warriors IMO if they are arms spec will be the ability to duel-weild 2H weapons
Wich is going to make them insanely strong ,
If the characters Haste rating is reasonable the decrease in speed will make little difference
as u said in an earlier post

They've been saying they were going to do that for a long time with the warriors and DWing two handers. We'll see if that sticks.

[Sanosuke23]

Screw Warriors, Ret Aura is going to be affected by Spellpower now. That and AoE HoT makes me :3 more than anything else. Not to say all of Pally's changes(Hand spells, allegedly STR>Spellpower like AGI>AP for Hunters or Rogues) aren't :3-worthy.

For the uninformed, general spell damage and healing or healing and spell damage on an item is being converted to Spellpower. Healing gets a bigger boost from Spellpower than damage does overall to keep the bonus you'd get at the same general rate it's at now.

[Brewmaster]

Jeez i saw a video on youtube with a WOTLK pally.That was insane.I mean they get some kind of a new strike that damages people around him and he regains healt according to damage.That is insane but still good.

[xCloudz]

i saw some private servers with Dark Knight at every race playable. you can search those on xfire

[Cantelope]

As a rogue, I think Shadow Dance is incredibly stupid from an offensive stand point. Everyone's like LOL OMG AMBUSH AGAIN AND AGAIN. It takes two seconds for one tick of energy to restore. One tick is 20 energy. Ambush costs 60 energy. It takes 6 seconds to regain enough energy to do an Ambush.

If you do the math, you'll be able to maybe get off two ambushes that are worth anything, and the then third one will take too long to even matter, and the fourth one even more-so.

Now, using openers that actually DON'T suck, after Cheap Shot and Garrote, what else is there to use?

Anyways, it's clearly not meant to be used as an offensive ability, but instead as another escape mechanism, which is so characteristic of the subtlety tree.


Also, about warriors dual wielding two-handers, I get the feeling it's going to turn out pretty bad for them without Mortal Strike.

Also, that cinematic trailer was freaking AWEESOOMME.


And Evockzi, I don't see how making good gear easily obtainable ruined the game in any aspect whatsoever. Personally, I think it's a GREAT thing. This helps make the general differences in gear among the player-base almost worthless, and puts more emphasis on player SKILL instead of GEAR.

[Brewmaster]

As a rogue, I think Shadow Dance is incredibly stupid from an offensive stand point. Everyone's like LOL OMG AMBUSH AGAIN AND AGAIN. It takes two seconds for one tick of energy to restore. One tick is 20 energy. Ambush costs 60 energy. It takes 6 seconds to regain enough energy to do an Ambush.

If you do the math, you'll be able to maybe get off two ambushes that are worth anything, and the then third one will take too long to even matter, and the fourth one even more-so.

Now, using openers that actually DON'T suck, after Cheap Shot and Garrote, what else is there to use?

Anyways, it's clearly not meant to be used as an offensive ability, but instead as another escape mechanism, which is so characteristic of the subtlety tree.


Also, about warriors dual wielding two-handers, I get the feeling it's going to turn out pretty bad for them without Mortal Strike.

Also, that cinematic trailer was freaking AWEESOOMME.


And Evockzi, I don't see how making good gear easily obtainable ruined the game in any aspect whatsoever. Personally, I think it's a GREAT thing. This helps make the general differences in gear among the player-base almost worthless, and puts more emphasis on player SKILL instead of GEAR.

Hm yes but i have seen rogues doing ambushes around 4k+ crit.Now hm doing just 2 of them as you say is around 8k.So that will take pretty much all the health down.Plus you gain combo points so you can do an easy kidney to stop the enemy from running away.And another thing the S-set gives you an additional 10 energy.Also if you go a bit further into assass tree you can get another 10 energy.If you chose to go for combat you have adrenaline rush.Hm now that would be good wouldn't it?
Also you can manage well without Mortal Strike.I mean you would have Bloodthirst which is not so bad either.Yes you will lack the 50% less heal but doing massive damage with dual wielding 2 handers will make up for that.Also if they really insist on healing the good old pummel will do the trick.
Oh and yes i must agree on the gear thing.Making it easier to get good gear is a good thing.As you said it will allow for more of a skill test than better gear owning low geared people.

[Cantelope]

Hm yes but i have seen rogues doing ambushes around 4k+ crit.Now hm doing just 2 of them as you say is around 8k.So that will take pretty much all the health down.Plus you gain combo points so you can do an easy kidney to stop the enemy from running away.And another thing the S-set gives you an additional 10 energy.Also if you go a bit further into assass tree you can get another 10 energy.If you chose to go for combat you have adrenaline rush.Hm now that would be good wouldn't it?
Also you can manage well without Mortal Strike.I mean you would have Bloodthirst which is not so bad either.Yes you will lack the 50% less heal but doing massive damage with dual wielding 2 handers will make up for that.Also if they really insist on healing the good old pummel will do the trick.
Oh and yes i must agree on the gear thing.Making it easier to get good gear is a good thing.As you said it will allow for more of a skill test than better gear owning low geared people.

Sigh. First of all, when WotLK comes out, a well-geared player will have 20k, or near 20k hp. Second of all, you only have 71 talent points. How do you expect to get the 51 point talent Shadow Dance, and the THIRTY ONE point talent in either Combat or Assassination?

If you get 10 extra energy, you have to wait one tick to do a second ambush, and then another tick to do a kidney shot. So in the span of 6 seconds, you've done two ambushes (which HOPEFULLY initiation kicked in, so you get two combo points each), and then you do a 4 point kidney shot WITH ONLY 5 ENERGY TO ATTACK WITH.

Oh yeah, and not all healers stand still and cast greater heal while you're wailing on them waiting for a pummel.

[Brewmaster]

Sigh. First of all, when WotLK comes out, a well-geared player will have 20k, or near 20k hp. Second of all, you only have 71 talent points. How do you expect to get the 51 point talent Shadow Dance, and the THIRTY ONE point talent in either Combat or Assassination?

If you get 10 extra energy, you have to wait one tick to do a second ambush, and then another tick to do a kidney shot. So in the span of 6 seconds, you've done two ambushes (which HOPEFULLY initiation kicked in, so you get two combo points each), and then you do a 4 point kidney shot WITH ONLY 5 ENERGY TO ATTACK WITH.

Oh yeah, and not all healers stand still and cast greater heal while you're wailing on them waiting for a pummel.

Yes well then that way there will be way better weapons and meaning rogues will do even more damage to get up to that 20k hp so instead of doing 4k they will do way more.So still doing a few ambushes and taking off at least half of the hp from an opponent does good job now don't you think.Taking the rest of opponents hp is not gonna be so hard.I mean there is always blind.gouge and stuff to allow you to regen enough energy.So i think that way you just ambush a few times then blind then wait for energy then attack which will probably disable the opponent and all that massive ambush and big damage spam will make him want to heal or run but then you would kidney him and the rest is easy.
Oh and yes well if they want to heal they will have to stand once.And since warriors have ways to disable fear(either Death Wish or the rage thing or even the medallion making them hard to be stopped) they will be killed with no much trouble.
By the way my mistake for the talents i got a bit away with it sorry.

[Cantelope]

When a rogue has no energy, it's a window of opportunity for the opponent. The rogue for sure can't shiv, or if he can, only once, and then if it's a shaman or druid, they can cleanse the poison and gain range. The rogue has to wait four agonizing seconds for a shadowstep. That's plenty of time for a heal.

Gouge uses more energy than you regen with.

Blind is only once per fight, and most opponents have their pvp trinket ready for it.

Anyways, you don't get it, getting a target down to whatever % of HP doesn't matter with Ambush, because it's worthless if they aren't DEAD in a few seconds. The DPS is absolutely terrible, and the longer a fight lasts, the more the rogue is in trouble, which is absolutely the scenario in a fight between two opponents with resilience and stamina gear.

Just admit it, Ambush sucks, and forever will suck. Shadow Dance isn't OP. Warriors will probably even out in the end also.

[Brewmaster]

Ever heard of sprint?Or maybe you never even played a rogue.Since seemingly you forget about skills.And no i have nothing to admit.I am just saying that it will be a pretty good skill that will allow much damage.Yes they have their pvp trinket.But you have the combo cloak of shadows and vanish.Easy to run and let your energy regen.Don't you think.Now you should admit that it is simply good and ambush does not suck or maybe if you even played a rogue you don't know how to use it.
Ehm and warriors will still pwn but of course there will be classes that can stop each of them i am not saying they will be invincible just that those combos will pretty much rock and own a lot.
Oh also i forgot to say that is to point in a few things.Rogues ambush crits will slow opponents atack speed and movement speed.Also forgot about preparation maybe?The thing that resets the cool-down on shadow steep evasion, cold blood, vanish and sprint.I see even more opportunities to run and regen energy then strike back again.Oh yeah and the talent that reduces the cost of ambush by 15 and energy cost of hemo by 5.Even more opportunity.

[Cantelope]

Ever heard of sprint?

Yes.

Or maybe you never even played a rogue.Since seemingly you forget about skills.And no i have nothing to admit.I am just saying that it will be a pretty good skill that will allow much damage.Yes they have their pvp trinket.But you have the combo cloak of shadows and vanish.Easy to run and let your energy regen.Don't you think.Now you should admit that it is simply good and ambush does not suck or maybe if you even played a rogue you don't know how to use it.

You just wasted cloak of shadows, and vanish (you can't do it again for a whole 3-5 minutes) so you can let your energy regen, while your opponent either heals/bandage/eat/drink/prepare for your next wave of attacks, while you have TWO COOLDOWNS LESS. And yes, I PLAY a rogue, and yes, my arena ratings are over 2000, I can safely assume I know what I'm talking about.

Also forgot about preparation maybe?The thing that resets the cool-down on shadow steep evasion, cold blood, vanish and sprint.I see even more opportunities to run and regen energy then strike back again.Oh yeah and the talent that reduces the cost of ambush by 15 and energy cost of hemo by 5.Even more opportunity.

/facepalm

Yes, because you totally want to be using a 10 minute cooldown every fight right? All so you can kill ONE person. Again, just admit it, Ambush sucks in any respectable form of pvp (arena).

[Brewmaster]

Yes.
You just wasted cloak of shadows, and vanish (you can't do it again for a whole 3-5 minutes) so you can let your energy regen, while your opponent either heals/bandage/eat/drink/prepare for your next wave of attacks, while you have TWO COOLDOWNS LESS. And yes, I PLAY a rogue, and yes, my arena ratings are over 2000, I can safely assume I know what I'm talking about.

/facepalm

Yes, because you totally want to be using a 10 minute cooldown every fight right? All so you can kill ONE person. Again, just admit it, Ambush sucks in any respectable form of pvp (arena).

Erm maybe when they "rest" you could sap? O_o;;
Also cloak gets back fast now doesn't it.The cool down it not that big also there is a talent that reduces the cool down on it.
Also KILLING ONE PERSON is good now don't you think???For arena.Also if it was a battle ground you wouldn't need to use all those cool downs since there will be more people so ehm someone takes their attention while you ambush and get their hp in two hits.That would be called teamwork.
And no i will not admit that it sucks since it is very good and was made for a reason.And shadow dance is here to make it be more usable.

[Sanosuke23]

@Cantelope: CLEARLY IT WAS MEANT FOR WORLD PVP THEN. :B

Actually though I'm joking now that I've said that it's possible, since there's allegedly going to be a dedicated world PvP zone in Northrend.

[Cantelope]

Erm maybe when they "rest" you could sap? O_o;;

You have to wait 5 seconds for them to drop combat. If they have heals, they can get off two power heals, easily taking them back to 100%, because your ambushes will not get a full stack of wound poison on them (2 apps at MOST, if you're LUCKY).

Also cloak gets back fast now doesn't it.The cool down it not that big also there is a talent that reduces the cool down on it.

Which talent? And CloS is only a 1 minute cool-down, but if you don't use it wisely, you've got a minute where you're helpless.

Also KILLING ONE PERSON is good now don't you think???For arena.Also if it was a battle ground you wouldn't need to use all those cool downs since there will be more people so ehm someone takes their attention while you ambush and get their hp in two hits.That would be called teamwork.

No, just getting some chump, and the two of you taking on two other people separately is NOT teamwork. Teamwork is you taking forever to kill one-guy, and with all the holes in your attack pattern, the team mate heals his buddy, CC's either you or your partner, and the two of them proceed to grind one of you into a bloody pulp with ease. This is why you'll probably never see a team rating above 1600.

And no i will not admit that it sucks since it is very good and was made for a reason.And shadow dance is here to make it be more usable.

k.

@Cantelope: CLEARLY IT WAS MEANT FOR WORLD PVP THEN. :B

Actually though I'm joking now that I've said that it's possible, since there's allegedly going to be a dedicated world PvP zone in Northrend.

And I might agree with this because Waylay disables item use (pots) for 8 seconds.

[Brewmaster]

You have to wait 5 seconds for them to drop combat. If they have heals, they can get off two power heals, easily taking them back to 100%, because your ambushes will not get a full stack of wound poison on them (2 apps at MOST, if you're LUCKY).

Blind as i mentioned if must.

Which talent? And CloS is only a 1 minute cool-down, but if you don't use it wisely, you've got a minute where you're helpless.

Here is a link with all the new rogue talents.Check it out. :]
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue

No, just getting some chump, and the two of you taking on two other people separately is NOT teamwork. Teamwork is you taking forever to kill one-guy, and with all the holes in your attack pattern, the team mate heals his buddy, CC's either you or your partner, and the two of them proceed to grind one of you into a bloody pulp with ease. This is why you'll probably never see a team rating above 1600.

Yes indeed but if your friend is a CC and he does it to the other guy while you ambush the crap out of the other one then he joins you in the mashing.That would be for arena but i was talking more for BG PvP where team work is good with that skill shadow dance that is.
By the way i don't play rogues that much.My main class is Priest in which i know the most.

k.

Also i think that we will continue debating forever lol