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Thread: Goku vs Superman

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsterisk! View Post
    I have no clue as to the yield of Goku's strongest attack (or what it'd actually be); I was pointing out that Superman's ability to withstand nukes wasn't special at all.

    Well, I can't say I actually expected to win with such claims. I was reaching for anything. I concede on that point.
    My teleportation argument still stands, though.
    If Superman feels like bringing the Justice League into the picture, Goku will also bring in Piccolo, Vegeta, Krillin, etc.

    Out of curiousity (not argument), why does no sun have little affect on Superman where more sunlight instantly powers him up? Shouldn't both effects take a similar amount of time?
    Yes, that was my point, that Superman is by no means immune to a massive nuclear attack.

    This is where Supes outdoes Goku though. Recuperation. Remember, without Sensu Beans, Goku would take a lot longer to recover than Supes as he could get closer to the sun to recover, so it's sort of of stalemate on that count.
    But not only that, I think that Supes could possibly be faster than Goku. Rememeber their speed is based on entirely different powers, so he would need to hold him down for that time, though don't quote me on that.

    It's not that it would have no effect on him, but he stores the energy like a battery. So in other words when the energy is gained it is not used the next second, but stored. But is absorbed immediately. Though I'm not sure the phrase "instantly powers him up" is correct. This depends on your definition of "powers up". This could be true however depending on how close he got to the sun.

    For example, lets say he had no access to (star) sunlight for a certain time.
    If he was expending large amounts of energy during this time without sunlight, it would clearly have an effect on him, and he would grow weaker quicker than if he was not very active.

    The three week example was wrong on my part, in a battle scenario that is. But I was overstating my point because no battle will last weeks. At the most a day.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasphemous Feind View Post
    Are you sure that you are talking about the same Goku here? He loved to fight.
    Yes exactly, that was my point I was making about other people.
    I agree, Goku loves to train hard, and fight (for sport, not to hurt)!

  3. #28
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    Superman is said to have a body stronger then steel... so don't that mean he would win?? ( also before superman is actually alot stronger then how they made him now just in case u didn't no.)

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    LOL what a nice thread
    I go for superman, stronger, faster...
    (and that red ugly briefs he wears would ad him some extrapower >.> if not, he should take them off <.<)
    Yeah, he should kick Goku *stary-eyed*



  5. #30
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    No, no body of steel.
    It's just one of the names he is known by, like: Superman: The Man of Steel, or Superman: The Man of Tomorrow, etc.

    Yeah that was the Silver Age Superman, but that all changed in the massive DC Comics event, "Crisis on Infinite Earths", where the multiverse was changed along with many characters into a single universe (or so it was thought...).
    But yes, the Silver Age Superman would indeed have been an interesting fight. But I still maintain that Goku would beat the current Superman (for reasons stated in previous posts).

  6. #31
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    lolol you all know nothing!!! its obvious Goku would woop on Superman mainly because Goku can power up all the way to like Super Sayin4 or some bull, and once he hits that level theres no stopping Goku he can destroy anyone!
    hed be alot stronger and faster than superman plus he has that kamehameha x10! it would anihilate superman , what does superman have? speed strength and laser eyes .. cheap! goku can just teleport towards him, behind him, above him, around him and woop on him like hes nothing. i say supermans equivalent to vegeta when he first arrives on earth and gets wooped on by goku... i bet a better match would be Superman Vs Krillin .. ahahah! now that sounds more fair for superman...

  7. #32
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    That would be one epic battle
    Although theres no way Superman could win
    Goku would win

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  8. #33
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    I think it would be a good close fight but Goku would win in the end.

  9. #34
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    SUPERMAN HAX THE UNIVERSE.
    SRSLY.
    HE CAN'T DIE.
    AND THAT "DEATH OF SUPERMAN" CARTOON MOVE.
    HE COMES BACK.
    GOKU CAN DIE LOTS.
    HE DOES DIE LOTS.
    GOKU WOULD GET PWND.
    FACE IT.
    SUPERMAN HAS LASER EYES. SRSLY.
    ARE YOU PEOPLE CRAZY?
    AND THE HURRICANE SNEEZES.
    AND HE TAKES 50 CAL. GUNSHOTS TO THE EYE.
    NO RLY GOKU WOULD DIE.
    Goku is cooler, but Superman cheats. You notice that the only way superman even bleeds a LITTLE bit is the MAGICAL RADIATION GREEN ROCK+ stabbing? Did you notice that Goku bleeds a lot when he get hit in the nose?
    NOTICE THAT?


  10. #35
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    Superman would totally win! lolz!

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shedra View Post
    SUPERMAN HAX THE UNIVERSE.
    SRSLY.
    HE CAN'T DIE.
    AND THAT "DEATH OF SUPERMAN" CARTOON MOVE.
    HE COMES BACK.
    GOKU CAN DIE LOTS.
    HE DOES DIE LOTS.
    GOKU WOULD GET PWND.
    FACE IT.
    SUPERMAN HAS LASER EYES. SRSLY.
    ARE YOU PEOPLE CRAZY?
    AND THE HURRICANE SNEEZES.
    AND HE TAKES 50 CAL. GUNSHOTS TO THE EYE.
    NO RLY GOKU WOULD DIE.
    Goku is cooler, but Superman cheats. You notice that the only way superman even bleeds a LITTLE bit is the MAGICAL RADIATION GREEN ROCK+ stabbing? Did you notice that Goku bleeds a lot when he get hit in the nose?
    NOTICE THAT?
    Of course Superman can die. His return was only a one time thing. Those exact same circumstances can not be repeated.
    It's really tough to judge, but Supes would probably be able to take out a Super Saiyan (Level 1). An Asceneded Saiyan, or Gohan's level when he defeated Cell, now that would be a battle.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsterisk! View Post
    I have no clue as to the yield of Goku's strongest attack (or what it'd actually be); I was pointing out that Superman's ability to withstand nukes wasn't special at all.

    Well, I can't say I actually expected to win with such claims. I was reaching for anything. I concede on that point.
    My teleportation argument still stands, though.
    If Superman feels like bringing the Justice League into the picture, Goku will also bring in Piccolo, Vegeta, Krillin, etc.

    Out of curiousity (not argument), why does no sun have little affect on Superman where more sunlight instantly powers him up? Shouldn't both effects take a similar amount of time?
    Okay, here's the deal as I understand it:

    Superman has decades of power saved up. It would take him decades to power down. In fact, there's a miniseries where the sun had been blotted out and twenty years later while he was still nigh-invulnerable and had most of his power intact, he was noticably weaker. He doesn't instantly charge up or super-heal or anything in direct sunlight, but the energy he expends to do anything is minmal compared to the amount his body can hold and is currently holding at any given time.

    Superman can react and move at speeds only slightly slower than Goku's teleportation. On reaction time alone Supes has Goku beat. However, the outcome doesn't hinge on reaction time alone, because as you said he still needs the power to injure Goku.

    This is why I linked to the various -Age Supermans in my opening post. His strength varies based on when we're talking. There are some Supermans(I do believe that'd be the correct plural in this case) who can destroy a planet if using their full potential with a single punch, and there are others where that isn't the case. The real problem lies with the fact that Goku's strength was never measured in realistic units, so we have to eyeball it.

    Oh, and as an aside, if the Pro-Goku crowd can use GT I can use Elseworlds and other non-canon stories, in which Superman actually ascended to godhood essentially by flexing really hard.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shedra View Post
    SUPERMAN HAX THE UNIVERSE.
    SRSLY.
    HE CAN'T DIE.
    AND THAT "DEATH OF SUPERMAN" CARTOON MOVE.
    HE COMES BACK.
    GOKU CAN DIE LOTS.
    HE DOES DIE LOTS.
    GOKU WOULD GET PWND.
    FACE IT.
    SUPERMAN HAS LASER EYES. SRSLY.
    ARE YOU PEOPLE CRAZY?
    AND THE HURRICANE SNEEZES.
    AND HE TAKES 50 CAL. GUNSHOTS TO THE EYE.
    NO RLY GOKU WOULD DIE.
    Goku is cooler, but Superman cheats. You notice that the only way superman even bleeds a LITTLE bit is the MAGICAL RADIATION GREEN ROCK+ stabbing? Did you notice that Goku bleeds a lot when he get hit in the nose?
    NOTICE THAT?
    OR SRSLY?
    If a rock can kill you,I wouldn't rely on him.

    Made for AF audience:


    Don't flame me,it has something to do with the thread.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aka Ari Kurosaki View Post
    OR SRSLY?
    If a rock can kill you,I wouldn't rely on him.
    MAGIC ROCK. U DIDN'T LISTEN.


  15. #40
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    goku would pwn if he had some kriptonite

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanosuke23 View Post
    Okay, here's the deal as I understand it:

    Superman has decades of power saved up. It would take him decades to power down. In fact, there's a miniseries where the sun had been blotted out and twenty years later while he was still nigh-invulnerable and had most of his power intact, he was noticably weaker. He doesn't instantly charge up or super-heal or anything in direct sunlight, but the energy he expends to do anything is minmal compared to the amount his body can hold and is currently holding at any given time.

    Superman can react and move at speeds only slightly slower than Goku's teleportation. On reaction time alone Supes has Goku beat. However, the outcome doesn't hinge on reaction time alone, because as you said he still needs the power to injure Goku.

    This is why I linked to the various -Age Supermans in my opening post. His strength varies based on when we're talking. There are some Supermans(I do believe that'd be the correct plural in this case) who can destroy a planet if using their full potential with a single punch, and there are others where that isn't the case. The real problem lies with the fact that Goku's strength was never measured in realistic units, so we have to eyeball it.

    Oh, and as an aside, if the Pro-Goku crowd can use GT I can use Elseworlds and other non-canon stories, in which Superman actually ascended to godhood essentially by flexing really hard.
    Even though he has had the stored up energy, he has lost that a number of times (I collect the comics), but has recharged.

    No, if the sun was blotted out he would lose his power.

    In fact he can instantly charge, and can super-heal, but for this to happen he would have to be very close to a yellow sun. In fact this has happened a few times like in the "Trial of Superman" arc. He was in a ship being transported for trial and was thrown out of the ship close to a sun, and while he almost died, he had enough time to charge.

    I would agree with you on that, Superman's speed to power ratio is unlike Goku's, where Goku's speed is almost always the same as his power, Superman's is not, and his speed is way above his physical power/heat vision.

    I think the Superman you are talking about is the Silverage Superman, but even he didn't have the power to destroy a planet with a single punch. The only Superman coming close to that power would be Superman Prime, who is a future Superman seen in DC One Million, where he spent one hundred centuries in the core of the sun!! Now he would kick Goku's a*s.
    Last edited by Stu; 08-16-2008 at 09:58 AM.

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    Nice pic Aka Ari Kurosaki!!


  18. #43
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    I didn't make it clear earlier, and I apologize, but I'm working on the assumption that this is a fight for the universe. If you need a reason, concoct a villain that pits Superman and Goku against one another. Goku was willing to kill the Supreme Kai to get to Vegeta when Babidi messed with them, so I would not think it impossible for Superman and Goku to fight to the death.

    Now on with my rebuttals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu View Post
    Yes, that was my point, that Superman is by no means immune to a massive nuclear attack.
    I didn't say that, but thatnks for the concesion anyway. What I said was that even Krillin could take a nuclear blast head on. It's not exceptional.

    This is where Supes outdoes Goku though. Recuperation. Remember, without Sensu Beans, Goku would take a lot longer to recover than Supes as he could get closer to the sun to recover, so it's sort of of stalemate on that count.
    Time matters not, since Goku could hide very far away, but if time was short, I'm sure Dende could heal him.
    But not only that, I think that Supes could possibly be faster than Goku. Rememeber their speed is based on entirely different powers, so he would need to hold him down for that time, though don't quote me on that.
    Not sure what you meant by "hold him down," but I'll point out one lil' fact. If Goku cannot move more quickly than Superman through normal means, he can teleport (they call it Intsant Transmission in the Funimation dub, and I don't think it's specifically named in the manga). This allows him to travel at several thousand time the speed of light.
    It's not that it would have no effect on him, but he stores the energy like a battery. So in other words when the energy is gained it is not used the next second, but stored. But is absorbed immediately. Though I'm not sure the phrase "instantly powers him up" is correct. This depends on your definition of "powers up". This could be true however depending on how close he got to the sun.
    'Kay. I know he can store it immediately, but if he's fighting in the dark, he'd expend it without replenishment, too.
    That means, then, that if forced to fight without sunlight (from a yellow star), he would expend hs energy eventually. He'd probably try to conserve his energy by fighting well below his maximum, leading to a defeat.
    Of course, the Lord Slug thing was a joke.
    For example, lets say he had no access to (star) sunlight for a certain time.
    If he was expending large amounts of energy during this time without sunlight, it would clearly have an effect on him, and he would grow weaker quicker than if he was not very active.
    Meaning Goku would beat the tar out of him after a set period of time, no? I would certainly think a fight with Goku qualifies as "active."
    The three week example was wrong on my part, in a battle scenario that is. But I was overstating my point because no battle will last weeks. At the most a day.
    Who says it's a friendly match? That's the only way it'd be guaranteed to be short. I'm looking at a fight to the death, with retreat as an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanosuke23
    Okay, here's the deal as I understand it:

    Superman has decades of power saved up. It would take him decades to power down. In fact, there's a miniseries where the sun had been blotted out and twenty years later while he was still nigh-invulnerable and had most of his power intact, he was noticably weaker. He doesn't instantly charge up or super-heal or anything in direct sunlight, but the energy he expends to do anything is minmal compared to the amount his body can hold and is currently holding at any given time.
    Hmm... This would make a little sense if we diddn't bother to think about it. If, on any of the occaissions when Superman was in deep trouble, he could have simply released or used a larger amount of energy (instead of, say, struggling), why doesn't he? This seems suspiciously like the Trekkie argument that "you can't prove there's no massive planetary shields, so they must be there...unless you can disprove me." This is incorrect; they made the claim, so they must prove it. Similarly, you make a claim with nothing observed to support it. Until you can show me Superman releasing a mass of reserved energy (or official sources that say he can do so), I will consider it impossible. Go on.
    Superman can react and move at speeds only slightly slower than Goku's teleportation. On reaction time alone Supes has Goku beat. However, the outcome doesn't hinge on reaction time alone, because as you said he still needs the power to injure Goku.
    Slower is slower, and less power is less power. I'll also question your claim that even though Superman is slower he has better reaction time. Ignoring the contradiction here, I'll ask why you think a guy who can do what he does because he lives in a comparatively low gravity environment is faster than a guy from a race known as renowned conquerers and destroyers of planets. I now return to your apparent contradiction. If he has better reaction time but is slower, then Superman will see the punch coming and anticipate it, but lack the physical speed to take any meaningful action.
    This is why I linked to the various -Age Supermans in my opening post. His strength varies based on when we're talking. There are some Supermans(I do believe that'd be the correct plural in this case) who can destroy a planet if using their full potential with a single punch, and there are others where that isn't the case. The real problem lies with the fact that Goku's strength was never measured in realistic units, so we have to eyeball it.
    You can measure it, but it's horribly imprecise. If I had the motivation or the time, I could guess how much energy was pumped into a destroyed planet based on the size of it and how far or quickly the escaping 'chunks' flew. I will point out, though, that Vegeta blew up a planet early in DBZ by pointing at it.
    Oh, and as an aside, if the Pro-Goku crowd can use GT I can use Elseworlds and other non-canon stories, in which Superman actually ascended to godhood essentially by flexing really hard.
    Well...I'm not using GT, but this brings up the issue of what is canon. If GT isn't acceptable, then neither is a whole lot of the anime. I can dig out my manga if you want, but the debate will end pretty much the same way. Goku just won't have a tail and freaky fur, but instead lack his eyebrows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu
    I think the Superman you are talking about is the Silverage Superman, but even he didn't have the power to destroy a planet with a single punch. The only Superman coming close to that power would be Superman Prime, who is a future Superman seen in DC One Million, where he spent one hundred centuries in the core of the sun!! Now he would kick Goku's a*s.
    I didn't realize he could spend so much time (10,000 years, right?) inside a star, what with the heat and lack of food or water. Impressive. I'd like to know more of this Superman.
    Last edited by TheAsterisk!; 08-17-2008 at 06:16 PM. Reason: screwed up my quoting
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  19. #44
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    I didn't make it clear earlier, and I apologize, but I'm working on the assumption that this is a fight for the universe. If you need a reason, concoct a villain that pits Superman and Goku against one another. Goku was willing to kill the Supreme Kai to get to Vegeta when Babidi messed with them, so I would not think it impossible for Superman and Goku to fight to the death.

    Now on with my rebuttals.
    OK, though the circumstances would have to pretty severe, but sure I'll buy into that. Say

    I didn't say that, but thatnks for the concesion anyway. What I said was that even Krillin could take a nuclear blast head on. It's not exceptional.
    So where would you say Krillin reached the plateau of his power? I would have to say that it was after Guru released Krillin's hidden powers on Namek. Now I can't see Krillin at that power level defeating Superman, especially with Superman's speed - a tactic that has been used by Superman is to build up a huge amount of speed and hit his opponent at that speed - which I think Krillin couldn't counter.

    Time matters not, since Goku could hide very far away, but if time was short, I'm sure Dende could heal him.
    Yes, that was my point as well it would sort of a stalemate as they could both run-off to heal.
    Aaah, but now you're bringing in others into play. If you bring Dende in to battle, then Supes should be allowed a partner as well - let's keep this one on one.

    Not sure what you meant by "hold him down," but I'll point out one lil' fact. If Goku cannot move more quickly than Superman through normal means, he can teleport (they call it Intsant Transmission in the Funimation dub, and I don't think it's specifically named in the manga). This allows him to travel at several thousand time the speed of light.
    Sorry, yeah I misunderstood your post.
    But even Instant Transmission (IT) wouldn't really help against Superman's speed as Supes would be moving at high speed so when Goku has transported, Supes would be long gone. IT is useful for transporting far distances but not so much in a battle situation (well other than trying to counter a fast opponent). As far as I can remember he never used it in battle to counter speed, like against Cell for instance where that was a major part in Cell's arsenal.


    'Kay. I know he can store it immediately, but if he's fighting in the dark, he'd expend it without replenishment, too.
    That means, then, that if forced to fight without sunlight (from a yellow star), he would expend hs energy eventually. He'd probably try to conserve his energy by fighting well below his maximum, leading to a defeat.
    Of course, the Lord Slug thing was a joke.
    Yes, but you seem to think that his energy is used up fairly quickly. It's not. It would take a substatial period to diminish. I would say more than enough for one battle. If anything he would get tired and worn out long before he loses his power due to lack of sunlight. There are several arcs were he leaves for space. Also remember half of the day is night (no sun), and he works indoors, so it shows you that he doesn't de-charge easily.

    Meaning Goku would beat the tar out of him after a set period of time, no? I would certainly think a fight with Goku qualifies as "active."
    It's very tricky to say who would win if Supes used his speed to his advantage. But I would go with Goku for the win, even though Supes has an amazing tactical brain, Goku is also a great warrior with tactical skills, and could at some point unleash a massive release of energy causing a huge explosion, damaging both, but stunning Supes just long enough for Goku to get his hands on him and do some damage. Still, Supes could still escape again, so tough to call it.
    Supes played this game with Doomsday the second time they met.

    Who says it's a friendly match? That's the only way it'd be guaranteed to be short. I'm looking at a fight to the death, with retreat as an option.
    With retreat as an option, man that could take a while. If you want a definite outcome. Make it limited time,with the existence of both universes in the balance.

    Hmm... This would make a little sense if we diddn't bother to think about it. If, on any of the occaissions when Superman was in deep trouble, he could have simply released or used a larger amount of energy (instead of, say, struggling), why doesn't he? This seems suspiciously like the Trekkie argument that "you can't prove there's no massive planetary shields, so they must be there...unless you can disprove me." This is incorrect; they made the claim, so they must prove it. Similarly, you make a claim with nothing observed to support it. Until you can show me Superman releasing a mass of reserved energy (or official sources that say he can do so), I will consider it impossible. Go on.
    No, he can't release a massive amount of energy, but he can (like anyone else) decide on the level of his attack (heat vision, breath, physical attack, etc.)

    but lack the physical speed to take any meaningful action.
    It could prove meaningful over a period of time.

    You can measure it, but it's horribly imprecise. If I had the motivation or the time, I could guess how much energy was pumped into a destroyed planet based on the size of it and how far or quickly the escaping 'chunks' flew. I will point out, though, that Vegeta blew up a planet early in DBZ by pointing at it.
    I must agree with you on this (I think I'm agreeing). This was the point were the DB writers got it a little wrong. If you remember early on in DBZ when Picalo was training Gohan, Picalo destroyed the moon to bring Gohan back from his transformed state, and yet this should have been way out of Picalo's power, as it is stated that Frieza later on only then had the power capable of destroying a planet.


    Well...I'm not using GT, but this brings up the issue of what is canon. If GT isn't acceptable, then neither is a whole lot of the anime. I can dig out my manga if you want, but the debate will end pretty much the same way. Goku just won't have a tail and freaky fur, but instead lack his eyebrows.
    I always though we were using GT, otherwise things might be closer.


    I didn't realize he could spend so much time (10,000 years, right?) inside a star, what with the heat and lack of food or water. Impressive. I'd like to know more of this Superman.
    Like I said, this was a future Superman, and my guess (it's not revealed in the series), was that after his wife and parents passed on and he was comfortable that earth could be protected he might have wanted some rest. And he chose to get away.
    Supes' has a standard power level but if he stays within range of the sun for too long he can become over-powered and manifest extra abilities, etc. For instance, live much longer on a single breath of air - his cells become saturated with air.
    Superman Prime is featured in the DC mini-series JLA: One Million. The whole story is collected here http://www.dccomics.com/dcu/graphic_novels/?gn=3760

    and here on Amazon

    http://www.amazon.com/JLA-One-Millio...9071677&sr=1-1
    Last edited by Stu; 08-18-2008 at 11:23 AM.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aka Ari Kurosaki View Post
    OR SRSLY?
    If a rock can kill you,I wouldn't rely on him.

    Made for AF audience:


    Don't flame me,it has something to do with the thread.
    Keep me and God out of this.

  21. #46
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    This argument is pointless. Neither character holds a candle to Captain Falcon.

    That's a galactic rim. I mean like a few hundred thousand planets and stars were eaten up in that.


  22. #47
    Senior Member TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu View Post
    OK, though the circumstances would have to pretty severe, but sure I'll buy into that.
    Thank you.
    So where would you say Krillin reached the plateau of his power? I would have to say that it was after Guru released Krillin's hidden powers on Namek. Now I can't see Krillin at that power level defeating Superman, especially with Superman's speed - a tactic that has been used by Superman is to build up a huge amount of speed and hit his opponent at that speed - which I think Krillin couldn't counter.
    I never said Krillin coulod beat Superman. All I said was that even Krillin could take a small nuclear blast. This is to invalidate the claim that Superman's defenses are exceptional.
    Yes, that was my point as well it would sort of a stalemate as they could both run-off to heal.
    Goku could go across the galaxy in a few seconds. He has a tremedous advantage. Superman could only go so far wihtout aid.
    Aaah, but now you're bringing in others into play. If you bring Dende in to battle, then Supes should be allowed a partner as well - let's keep this one on one.
    Well, Dende isn't a combatant, but I can see ytour point. The run and heal argument still stands.
    But even Instant Transmission (IT) wouldn't really help against Superman's speed as Supes would be moving at high speed so when Goku has transported, Supes would be long gone. IT is useful for transporting far distances but not so much in a battle situation (well other than trying to counter a fast opponent). As far as I can remember he never used it in battle to counter speed, like against Cell for instance where that was a major part in Cell's arsenal.
    Goku used I.T. three times against Cell. It does work if need be.
    Yes, but you seem to think that his energy is used up fairly quickly. It's not. It would take a substatial period to diminish. I would say more than enough for one battle. If anything he would get tired and worn out long before he loses his power due to lack of sunlight. There are several arcs were he leaves for space. Also remember half of the day is night (no sun), and he works indoors, so it shows you that he doesn't de-charge easily.
    1 - Space is not devoid of sunlight. There's plenty.
    2 - Inside he can still get sunlight. Heard of a window?
    3 - I could argue that, since the moon reflects sunlight, he is still getting a little energy at night (barring a new moon or lunar eclipse), but I could also say that the Lord Slug comment was made for giggles. Stop worrying about it so much.
    It's very tricky to say who would win if Supes used his speed to his advantage. But I would go with Goku for the win, even though Supes has an amazing tactical brain, Goku is also a great warrior with tactical skills, and could at some point unleash a massive release of energy causing a huge explosion, damaging both, but stunning Supes just long enough for Goku to get his hands on him and do some damage. Still, Supes could still escape again, so tough to call it.
    I see no reason to think Superman is faster than Goku. As I said above, Goku can and does use I.T. in battle, and I.T. allows him to move at several thousand times the speed of light. This is certain because he travels to other plantes in less than a second. Could you tell me just how fast Suerman is? I'd like to compare him to some characters. A speed or time elapsed for circumnavigation of the globe would do.
    With retreat as an option, man that could take a while. If you want a definite outcome. Make it limited time,with the existence of both universes in the balance.
    It'd take no longer than it did to defeat Buu. If the resulting losses are acceptable, tactical retreat is always an option. If you really want to make it limited time, though, I suspect they'd both eventually die when they destroy whatever planet they're on, though that's more a gut feeling than an argument.
    No, he can't release a massive amount of energy, but he can (like anyone else) decide on the level of his attack (heat vision, breath, physical attack, etc.)
    Okay. So why doesn't he? Give me something observed or an official source that backs up your claim of vast reserves of energy.
    It could prove meaningful over a period of time.
    If you can give supporting evidence, of course. This isn't O.J.'s trial.
    I must agree with you on this (I think I'm agreeing). This was the point were the DB writers got it a little wrong. If you remember early on in DBZ when Picalo was training Gohan, Picalo destroyed the moon to bring Gohan back from his transformed state, and yet this should have been way out of Picalo's power, as it is stated that Frieza later on only then had the power capable of destroying a planet.
    First of all...Did you just say the moon is a planet? Dear me. Here I thought it wasn't
    For the love of God, bother to know what you're talking about. Roshi blew up the moon during one of the tournaments when Goku transformed into an ape. This was relatively early in Dragonball and was in the manga, making it definitely canon. Roshi's powe level was measured by Bulma to be 139 (at rest) early in DBZ, and, if you're paying attention, Nappa's PL is 4000. Frieza, before he's even in his final stage, has a PL over 1,000,000. Goku's PL far exceeds that. Kami later cut off Goku's tail while he was training under him and restored the moon. Piccolo later blew it up again when Gohan transformed. Moons are nothing. Planets are nothing.
    Additionally, it was never said by anyone that only Frieza could destroy planets. He has, but so have others.
    I always though we were using GT, otherwise things might be closer.
    Yeah, without GT Superman has a chance to win. With GT, he'd be shamefully outmatched. I haven't used GT yet in this thread, though others have.
    Like I said, this was a future Superman, and my guess (it's not revealed in the series), was that after his wife and parents passed on and he was comfortable that earth could be protected he might have wanted some rest. And he chose to get away.
    I don't really see the relevance in this, but whatever. I asked why he didn't die from dehydration or starvation, that's all. I'm prepared to accept the fact that it happened. Suspension of disbelief is critical; it was observed, so it must be possible.
    Supes' has a standard power level but if he stays within range of the sun for too long he can become over-powered and manifest extra abilities, etc. For instance, live much longer on a single breath of air - his cells become saturated with air.
    We've established that, thanks.

    As a note, I just realized someone thought hypnosis was Superman's ticket to sure victory. Roshi knows hypnosis, and has tried to use it on opponents, the only success being with a bizarre man-wolf (or something - he was like a reverse werewolf), and even then the guy had to submit to it voluntarily. Hypnosis is out.
    As another note, Goku was able to read Krillin's mind once and was aware of Cell's emrgence in his sleep, actually saying that he could hear everyone clearly, even those who were a few thousand miles away. Aparently, though it's never explained, Goku has limited telepathic abilities. But, as it was observed, it is fact.
    I'm realy surpirsed that no one's brought up the solar flare/tayoken as a potential self-defeating technique for Goku.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shedra
    This argument is pointless. Neither character holds a candle to Captain Falcon.
    OWNED.
    That's a galactic rim. I mean like a few hundred thousand planets and stars were eaten up in that.
    Besides that being irrelevant to an argument over who would win in a battle between Goku and Superman, I am now annoyed to have loaded that video over dial-up. (1) The rim was where the light emanated from, true, but we see no destruction of heavenly bodies. There's just the light. The only blast is seen in an atmosphere, seeing as there are clouds being pushed away. (2) Most of that light (and the comparatively small blast preceding it) seemed to come from the villain as he died, not the punch. This leads me to question whether that punch is always so spectacular (I have no knowledge to indicate such, but if you do, bravo). (3) DBZ blasts routinely throw off that much light, so I didn't see anything particularly interesting in the clip. If you want to discuss this, make a thread with the appropriate subject. This thread has its own topic.
    Last edited by TheAsterisk!; 08-18-2008 at 06:59 PM.
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  23. #48
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    ok your all forgetting the key element in a fight! and thats knowing how to fight! and GOku has the skill in fighting, super man relys on things he can throw at people , his speed,GOku is faster! watch some Justice league or super man fights vs someone and compare them to a DBZ fight DBz fights are way more intense and faster paced, and his laser eyes which i doubt can compare to gokus Super Kamehamehas or even a 10x Kamehameha... im pretty sure goku could wipe superman out with a Spirit bomb easy a FUll powered one!
    and think about this! superman gets wooped on easily all the time GOKU can take out Universe Destroyers! like majin buu ...Plus it seems to me Goku has more will power and strenght when he needs it

    seriously krillin, or tien or yamcha would be a better match for superman...

  24. #49
    Senior Member TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sataned View Post
    ok your all forgetting the key element in a fight! and thats knowing how to fight! and GOku has the skill in fighting, super man relys on things he can throw at people , his speed,GOku is faster! watch some Justice league or super man fights vs someone and compare them to a DBZ fight DBz fights are way more intense and faster paced, and his laser eyes which i doubt can compare to gokus Super Kamehamehas or even a 10x Kamehameha... im pretty sure goku could wipe superman out with a Spirit bomb easy a FUll powered one!
    and think about this! superman gets wooped on easily all the time GOKU can take out Universe Destroyers! like majin buu ...Plus it seems to me Goku has more will power and strenght when he needs it
    Some of this could be better phrased, but I think I agree with most of it. Your approach is a little superficial, though. I would like to point out that Superman would just attack Goku while he formed the spirit bomb, making that attack undesirable unless Superman was already incapacitated. My money would be on the little chi discs Krillin likes to make. We know Goku can make them (he used one on Buu) and they seem to work well even on much stronger opponents (see Krillin v. Nappa).
    seriously krillin, or tien or yamcha would be a better match for superman...
    Now, now, let's be fair. That wouldn't work. Krillin was far more skilled than Nappa, but he didn't win, did he? Yamcha is a tactical ignoramus, so he's out. Tien simply wouldn't have the strength to inflict damage, and might end up killing himself accidentally 'cause of how dangerous his powerful attacks are. You could argue (though it'd be tough) that Krillin and Tien are able to take just as much as Superman, but neither are fast enough or can put out enough power to actually fight him with any chance of victory. The only way a combatant weaker than Superman could beat him would be through deception, cunning, and unusual abilities. Think Piccolo post-Buu.
    Last edited by TheAsterisk!; 08-18-2008 at 07:11 PM.
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  25. #50
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    Rebuttals to rebuttals.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsterisk! View Post
    Hmm... This would make a little sense if we diddn't bother to think about it. If, on any of the occaissions when Superman was in deep trouble, he could have simply released or used a larger amount of energy (instead of, say, struggling), why doesn't he? This seems suspiciously like the Trekkie argument that "you can't prove there's no massive planetary shields, so they must be there...unless you can disprove me." This is incorrect; they made the claim, so they must prove it. Similarly, you make a claim with nothing observed to support it. Until you can show me Superman releasing a mass of reserved energy (or official sources that say he can do so), I will consider it impossible. Go on.
    It is comic book SCIENCE!, and it varies with author, generation, and plot convenience. Welcome to American comic book superheroes.

    Slower is slower, and less power is less power. I'll also question your claim that even though Superman is slower he has better reaction time. Ignoring the contradiction here, I'll ask why you think a guy who can do what he does because he lives in a comparatively low gravity environment is faster than a guy from a race known as renowned conquerers and destroyers of planets. I now return to your apparent contradiction. If he has better reaction time but is slower, then Superman will see the punch coming and anticipate it, but lack the physical speed to take any meaningful action.
    Superman is slower than instantaneous(hence the teleport which is the only thing I mentioned), but faster than any living thing that isn't directly connected to the Speed Force. It isn't a matter of being in a lower-gravity environment(it was at one point, but now he derives his power mostly from the sun), although the same could be said of Goku given his training methods. In terms of regular bodily speed, Superman should at least equal Goku, I'd think.

    You can measure it, but it's horribly imprecise. If I had the motivation or the time, I could guess how much energy was pumped into a destroyed planet based on the size of it and how far or quickly the escaping 'chunks' flew. I will point out, though, that Vegeta blew up a planet early in DBZ by pointing at it.
    I do believe there was "chi" involved in that pointing, good sir. Besides, considering that DBZ used its own measurement system for power levels without any real possibility of conversion it's all speculation.

    Well...I'm not using GT, but this brings up the issue of what is canon. If GT isn't acceptable, then neither is a whole lot of the anime. I can dig out my manga if you want, but the debate will end pretty much the same way. Goku just won't have a tail and freaky fur, but instead lack his eyebrows.
    Well, Toriyama himself considers GT noncanon, because he had nothing to do with it. As far as I know he has nothing against the Z anime or its movies.

    I didn't realize he could spend so much time (10,000 years, right?) inside a star, what with the heat and lack of food or water. Impressive. I'd like to know more of this Superman.
    Silver Age Superman is by and large the most broken, plot-armored character to ever exist. They increased the scope of his power to ridiculous levels, and gave him new powers to fit whatever plot they had stuck him in. Super-Ventriloquism that was usable in the vacuum of space, Super-Hypnosis, and yes even SUPER-WEAVING were part of his list of powers.

    From the Wikipedia on Silver/Bronze Age Superman from the "Powers and Abilities of Superman" article:

    Over time, Superman's strength was increased to the point where he could move entire planets. The character gained the power of true flight. Superman's speed increased to the point where he could travel faster than light. He could use this power to travel through time as well as fly to other worlds, solar systems and galaxies and even to other universes with relative ease, as shown in his visits to the 30th century as a member of the Legion of Super-Heroes. By the 1970s, Superman was able to withstand the explosion of nuclear weapons with no risk whatsoever and fly unharmed through the core of a star. Superman was also able to regenerate physical damage to his body at an accelerated rate[citation needed] and could survive without air, water, or food. Superman was immune to basically everything except for Kryptonite radiation and magic.
    Superman possessed x-ray vision, allowing him to see through solid objects (except through lead), as well as telescopic vision (seeing great, even interstellar distances) and microscopic vision (seeing small things, even subatomic particles). These powers could be used individually or in conjunction with one another. His eyes could also perceive the full electromagnetic spectrum including infrared and ultraviolet frequencies of radiation. Originally depicted as a by-product of his x-ray vision, Superman's "heat vision" allowed him to generate energy beams which could be used to melt or vaporize almost any substance.
    Superman could hear sound at almost any wavelength and at vast distances. Superman's breath was capable of freezing objects (because his lungs were able to put air under tremendous pressure, thus super-cooling it) and generating hurricane-force winds. Superman could throw his voice across great distances. This power was used to confuse enemies or protect his secret identity by tricking others into believing that he (or Clark Kent) was in a different location.
    Superman possessed genius-level intelligence and an eidetic memory. These enhanced mental capabilities were a direct result of his exposure to a yellow sun. Superman also possessed the mental ability to screen out the enormous amount of information received by his enhanced senses and to focus on a single detail such as a particular voice or location.
    Writers of Superman experimented with new powers for the character. The abilities that proved popular became part of his regular repertoire, while others were discarded after a single use. In addition to his other super senses, Superman was occasionally shown as having highly-enhanced senses of touch and smell.
    That doesn't accurately describe how truly broken Silver Age Superman truly is, but it's a good general overview.
    Visit the Toy Dungeon Studios Store and buy a shirt or zipper pull, damnit!

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