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Thread: Regarding Vegetarians that Eat Fishies

  1. #76
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    I prefer to eat twinkies and the like cos they have no faces and were never alive to begin with. Though I do suppose they contain something from living things, but it's sort of hard to tell by the time it reaches me on the supermarket shelves with their shelf life expectancy of 200+ years.

    Anyway, it seems to me that there's been a serious lack of iron mentioned which is found in higher concentrations in red meat vs anything else. Iron makes the body function well. If you're body's cells cannot get enough oxygen then you have all sorts of problems and end up much like me.
    Iron, a trace mineral, prevents anemia and keeps your red blood cells healthy. In fact iron is an essential part of hemoglobin, a part of the red blood cells that carries oxygen throughout your body. You also store iron in your muscle tissues and it's an essential part of many of your body's proteins and enzymes.
    Animal products provide heme iron, which is more easily absorbed than non-heme iron, the type of iron available from plant sources.
    Hence my problems, I dislike eating things like red meat, oysters, livers and other gastly bits of animals.
    I don't eat a lot of meat, outside fish, cos I really don't have a taste for it. Working fast food does that to some.
    I find it a bit difficult to understand how anyone can eat just a diet of plant matter (commonly called, around here anyway, rabbit food). Our bodies weren't designed for it. We were designed to eat a little of everything.

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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totsean View Post
    Why do we need to eat animals? I haven't touched meat for a few years, and I'm in great health. Plants aren't the only sources for nutrition, theirs also animal byproducts like dairy, eggs, and honey right? Vegetarians can eat that.
    It's possible to live on a vegetarian diet, but it's not what your body wants. Humanity evolved to get most of it's protein (and iron, and a few other things) from meat. It's possible to find these thing is certain vegetables, sure, but you have to eat a lot more of it because you are unable to digest it properly. Your body wants fruit and vegetables for many of it's vitamins and most of it's carbohydrates, but it needs meat for everything else. You'll never get as much protein from a rutabaga as you would a rabbit.

    This is why nutritionists don't recommend vegetarian (much less vegan) diets to the general public. They recommend a diet with high-protein low-fat meats like fish and poultry in moderation. Sure, you can live off a full vegitarian diet, but it's not what your body is designed to handle.

    It's nutrients include only protein/amino acids and some minerals, but that can be supplied by many vegetarian foods. All that animal fat and cholesterol is also a big health concern and has been linked with many health problems including a variety cancer (raised risk by 20-60%), while causing adverse mutations in DNA. And that's based on famous large scale studies.
    The same point came up in the thread I linked to. I'll quote me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Those risks are from a high-calorie red meat-filled diet which is NOT what we are talking about. We are talking about a piece of grilled chicken surrounded by wild rice and green beans NOT a Super-Size Double Whopper Value Meal with a Milkshake.

    So either you are mis[interpreting] the data, or [...] choosing a very specific diet to compare vegetarianism to.
    Changes in brackets to make it more valid to this discussion.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amray View Post
    Well, if a person does not use common sense then I guess that is how one could see it. Why not just go to Fleet Street? I heard that they sell some heavenly human pies there.
    Actually, common sense led me to that conclusion. Honestly, there is no difference. According to you, vegetables have no feelings or thoughts. Neither to brain-dead humans. It seems logical enough to me that if you are willing to eat a plant because it has no conscious, then you should be able to eat a human with no conscious. A brain-dead person can't process what's going on around him/her and can't have thoughts or feel pain. I'm looking for consistency here. Pretend I'm an idiot with a first grade level of education and explain to me the difference between vegetables and human vegetables. The moral difference.

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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faceless111 View Post
    Actually, common sense led me to that conclusion. Honestly, there is no difference. According to you, vegetables have no feelings or thoughts. Neither to brain-dead humans. It seems logical enough to me that if you are willing to eat a plant because it has no conscious, then you should be able to eat a human with no conscious. A brain-dead person can't process what's going on around him/her and can't have thoughts or feel pain. I'm looking for consistency here. Pretend I'm an idiot with a first grade level of education and explain to me the difference between vegetables and human vegetables. The moral difference.

    Humans are living, breathing meat, vegetables are things that grow out of soil that cannot and do not breath to survive. Human vegetables still have the vital organs that keep them alive and are still functioning, vegetables on the other hand have no brain, lungs and heart..end of. So to me it sounds as if you are saying that human vegetables have no human values or morals (the thing that MP2000 has been discussing for the past 2 pages) just because they cannot think for themselves. They are still human beings nontheless.

    But hey, if you wish to cook them and eat them and become a human vegetable eating cannibal then by all means go ahead, but I garuntee many people will detest your actions. Especially vegetarians. Just remember; Vegetarians can eat ground born vegetables, but they cannot eat human vegetables. Why? because they are still meat from a living creature. Have you seen a vegetarian eating a human vegetable? I haven't.
    Last edited by Amray; 06-29-2008 at 06:32 AM.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    It's possible to live on a vegetarian diet, but it's not what your body wants. Humanity evolved to get most of it's protein (and iron, and a few other things) from meat. It's possible to find these thing is certain vegetables, sure, but you have to eat a lot more of it because you are unable to digest it properly. Your body wants fruit and vegetables for many of it's vitamins and most of it's carbohydrates, but it needs meat for everything else. You'll never get as much protein from a rutabaga as you would a rabbit.

    This is why nutritionists don't recommend vegetarian (much less vegan) diets to the general public. They recommend a diet with high-protein low-fat meats like fish and poultry in moderation. Sure, you can live off a full vegitarian diet, but it's not what your body is designed to handle.
    The average human body requires around 50 grams of protein daily to be healthy. Anyone even a vegetarian (not sure about vegans) can supply this much with ease. Just look at this chart: http://www.annecollins.com/protein-foods.htm

    As you can see their is even more vegetarian protein-rich foods than meats.

    There are many other sources of iron too, like chocolate, and everyone loves chocolate.

    I'm not just getting by with my vegetarian diet, but i'm also in great health. Although I don't owe that just to my diet because other factors like excercise and visualization also play a big role, it just goes to show you're wrong about a vegetarian diet being unhealthy. I'll also mention that meat is generally more difficult to digest than most vegetarian foods and is thus less fit for the human body to eat.
    Last edited by Totsean; 06-29-2008 at 11:59 AM.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amray View Post
    Humans are living, breathing meat, vegetables are things that grow out of soil that cannot and do not breath to survive. Human vegetables still have the vital organs that keep them alive and are still functioning, vegetables on the other hand have no brain, lungs and heart..end of. So to me it sounds as if you are saying that human vegetables have no human values or morals (the thing that MP2000 has been discussing for the past 2 pages) just because they cannot think for themselves. They are still human beings nontheless.
    So you're saying the moral difference between humans and plants is that we breathe oxygen? Vital organs somehow make us superior to plants? Even if brain-dead humans usually require machinery to keep them alive. I asked you to explain the moral difference between a human that cannot think, feel, or process pain and a plant that cannot think, feel, or process pain. What human values or morals do brain-dead humans have? What gives us the right to eat plants? Are plants so inferior to humans that we can eat them? Are you forgetting that plants are living beings too? Can we eat plants simply because we are superior to them? If that is the case, logic would seem to say that we should be allowed to eat inferior animals.

    I'm just looking for consistency here.

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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faceless111 View Post
    So you're saying the moral difference between humans and plants is that we breathe oxygen? Vital organs somehow make us superior to plants? Even if brain-dead humans usually require machinery to keep them alive. I asked you to explain the moral difference between a human that cannot think, feel, or process pain and a plant that cannot think, feel, or process pain. What human values or morals do brain-dead humans have? What gives us the right to eat plants? Are plants so inferior to humans that we can eat them? Are you forgetting that plants are living beings too? Can we eat plants simply because we are superior to them? If that is the case, logic would seem to say that we should be allowed to eat inferior animals.

    I'm just looking for consistency here.
    We test on animals because we are 'superior' to them, so why not eat plants too? What are you some kind of hippy? And have you actually read anything else that I have written? I am against all of this too and this discussion is just going around in circles back to the point where me and Manhattan were discussing human morals to animal rights. Humans have the power to do 'anything' regarding the planet to whatever they see fit, simply because they can. Birds are not going to stop humans cutting down tree's, why? because they cannot. They don't have a say in it but the humans do. That is how the world works.

    If you want a proper answer then why not ask a vegetarian why they eat plants even though they are still living things. They should know as they do it, I on the other hand eat both meat and vegetation because that is the key to a healthy diet.
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  8. #83
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    Wow...you people are really...getting into this.

    I am not a vegetarian, but I am up for animal rights. Some of the things people do to animals (fish included) are just plain cruel and morbid.

    This one time on TV they did this show where they introduced this restaurant where they served sushi. The freshest sushi in the world, so they claimed. And it turned out to be true. They would grab a fish out of a tank in the middle of the restaurant and cut off part of it's body then toss it back in the tank where it would swim around as if nothing had happened, right in front of the customers who ordered it. I thought it was really disgusting, the way those people could just sit there and eat with fish swimming around in front of them, with half of it's body gone.

    But you really shouldn't get me started on the things chefs do to seafood in Japan. Like, boiling things alive, frying things alive, serving things out alive (like octopus)... I don't get just how people can eat it. But no, they just grab the squirming octopus and try to bite it's head off.

    Anyway... People who eat fish are NOT vegetarians. Fish is meat. And I don't believe what people say about fish not feeling pain and stuff like that. Seeing how they try as hard as they can to get away must certainly mean SOMETHING.

    Vegetarians all have different reasons for becoming vegetarians, and I respect that. But if you are one of those vegetarians that claim not to eat meat because it's cruel to kill animals, then turn around and eat fish, then I would probably call you a hypocrite. But if you're one of those extreme vegetarians that don't eat any kind of product from any animal because you think it's cruel to take life (or to take the mother's milk from the baby cow), them you might as well just starve to death because plants are alive too. And they ARE sentient.
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