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Thread: What I see in Anime: A rant.

  1. #26
    Banned Forum / Chat Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray's Avatar
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    You must have looked through some of my words. I said that "I have not watched AC's in a long time". I used to watch them all the time. I have 3 seasons of Family Guy in my DVD case, and the first season of American Dad back from when I did watch them. But since I started getting bored of them they have just been sitting there for about 2 years untouched. I have had my fair share of AC viewings, which is WHY I was stating that they got boring for me. Just the same jokes and stunts over and over. And that is how 'I' saw them.

    Watch The Simpsons and Family Guy, so many scenes that are similar. Almost like they are continuingly copying eachothers ideas. Which equals to boredom. I used to watch a lot of Teen Titans. Bat Man just bored me from the first time I saw it anyway. I just found the animation dull, dark and plain. Anime, I have been watching non-stop for over a year, which just speaks for itself really- because I can withstand more Anime over a longer period of time, obviously that means that I like it more.

    I hope you can see my point now.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amray View Post
    You must have looked through some of my words. I said that "I have not watched AC's in a long time". I used to watch them all the time. I have 3 seasons of Family Guy in my DVD case, and the first season of American Dad back from when I did watch them. But since I started getting bored of them they have just been sitting there for about 2 years untouched. I have had my fair share of AC viewings, which is WHY I was stating that they got boring for me. Just the same jokes and stunts over and over. And that is how 'I' saw them.

    Watch The Simpsons and Family Guy, so many scenes that are similar. Almost like they are continuingly copying eachothers ideas. Which equals to boredom. I used to watch a lot of Teen Titans. Bat Man just bored me from the first time I saw it anyway. I just found the animation dull, dark and plain. Anime, I have been watching non-stop for over a year, which just speaks for itself really- because I can withstand more Anime over a longer period of time, obviously that means that I like it more.

    I hope you can see my point now.
    So... you are citing the most obvious, mainstream shows you could possibly find and feel comfortable generalizing about the entire genre?

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  3. #28
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    Im taking Amray's side here, I used to like western cartoons too, now I just like anime, and I also happen to despise western cartoons because watching enough anime has allowed me to see western cartoons for what they really are, so I dont like em, dont like that? sue me.


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  4. #29
    Banned Forum / Chat Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE DARKNESS View Post
    Quick question, in what way does anime speak for itself? Or maybe it has to because you're sh*tty spokesperson... There are plenty of "dark, dull" anime out there. I'm not bashing the fact that you like anime more, I'm bashing the fact that you seem to think that all anime is superior to all American cartoons ever made.
    You obviously did not read a word of what I just said, so shut it! I said "It speaks for itself" that >>"I"<< prefer Anime to Cartoons! And that it speaks for itself that >>"I"<< like Anime more, because I watch it and enjoy it more.

    And please, I have had my share on Cartoons and got bored! Never got bored of Anime! ME, AS AN INDIVIDUAL!! Stop talking absloute crap just because I prefer Anime to Cartoons! Man, just get over it!! I do not care if you like bloody bat man better than Naruto or whatever else! Just stop the sensless squabbles about my preferences!

    YES! I like Elfen Lied more than Superman! Whoopee-frkkin'-Doo! Animation is not life so stop speaking as if it is! The word FICTION comes to mind.
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  5. #30
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    Geez I like anime a lot too but you don't have to put down western cartoons. Sure there are some overused plots but the same thing goes for anime. You can't just group everything together and say "This is ALWAYS that".

    If you were going to make a genuine arguement for why anime is better, at least have some good reasons. "Oh it's violent and has lots of sex" just sounds stupid. In fact, a lot of people's reasons for liking anime were much different.

    When I was little, most american cartoons had to have superheroes and such- which is cool, not putting spidey and the others down at all.

    But seeing anime was the first time I had seen something that could simply be about the lives of normal kids growing up. Which might sound dull. But it was different.

    How many cartoons in America have done that? Not many I imagine as I can't think of any except for Hey Arnold! (this was a really cute show I think!), Doug, and this one show with a red-haired adolescent girl (sorry can't remember the name) One of the annoying things about these shows was that they always ended with a sort of "lesson" they had a definite after school special feel (which is what they were but I think you guys know what I mean) and anime doesn't usually do that. It can be good and simple without being cheezy.

    Anyway, a lot of american cartoons used to only concentrate on supernatural strengths and adventures, whereas in Japan they had a lot less exciting but still enjoyable toons. I just don't see why you can't enjoy one thing with out immediately saying, "Well, since I enjoy this nothing else can even compare!" It's your opinion and all but you might want to think about how you come across. Because you guys praising only the anime that centers around sex, violence, and terrible stuff like child molestation actually sounds like an arguement for the WC side as I can't see how rape could possibly be a form of entertainment.
    Last edited by eli_1990; 06-20-2008 at 10:16 AM.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by eli_1990 View Post
    But seeing anime was the first time I had seen something that could simply be about the lives of normal kids growing up. Which might sound dull. But it was different.

    How many cartoons in America have done that? Not many I imagine as I can't think of any except for Hey Arnold! (this was a really cute show I think!), Doug, and this one show with a red-haired adolescent girl (sorry can't remember the name) One of the annoying things about these shows was that they always ended with a sort of "lesson" they had a definite after school special feel (which is what they were but I think you guys know what I mean) and anime doesn't usually do that. It can be good and simple without being cheezy.
    That type of story isn't that common in either Animu or Western Animation, though. Plus there are tons of shows along those lines in Western Animation that you missed, even more if you conceder the "normal kid in abnormal setting" convention to be pretty much the same thing. The moral thing is more a side effect of having stand alone episodes (which always require some sort of immediate conflict that can be overcome) then anything, it's usually not intended.
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    Hey! I grew up watching Western cartoons before ever watching Anime. They've made me laughed and kept me entertained for much of my childhood. But as I matured, I sought out for something that took it to the next level. Then Anime came along, and I grew up watching that up until now. And I can just relate with it a lot better.

  8. #33
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    when i was little western cartoons were different they had more violence they were alot more funny but they have changed they've become too childish and stupid. to me anime is alot better the art work for most is beautiful and storylines captures you and draws a person in. i believe they are so different because of the different cultures, and the different hisories that each one holds
    Last edited by mississippibaby; 06-20-2008 at 12:15 PM.

  9. #34
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    I used to watch alot of cartoons. Anime came along when I got stuck in the middle. I was caught where Danny Phantom(my bro) was getting a little immature for me and where I would be grounded for watching Degrassi (too much drama anyway). Then, thank the good Lord, I found Naruto, which perfectly fit my age group. It was violent but not to violent. There were no annoying immaturities. A series that actually allows words like "sucks" thought they started editing that out O_=.

    Now I'm finding that anime are the only really entertaining youg adults program out there because a majority are combinations of comedy, drama, and action with captivating storylines and more real characters. Sometimes it gets violent but I like the beatings, they make me giggle!


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  10. #35
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    Ah, no! I missed this epic topic! How could you all rant without me? Oh well better late than never.

    Western Cartoons and Anime don't have anything in common except they are both animated. The similarities end there. Western Cartoons all have "Cold starts" and "Cold endings" which means each episode has it's beginning, problem, climax, solution, end. You do not have to watch the first episode of Ed, Edd & Eddy to enjoy the other episodes, while references to previous episodes may be made, they are not needed to grasp the plot.

    Anime on the other hand, you have to watch the episodes in order, starting with the first episode, to enjoy the show. Seriously jumping around on Naruto from episode 66 to 24 to 88 to 174 to 5 would not work at all!

    Anime is, in my opinion, better than Cartoons though. I do not understand the censorship that is plaguing America. Why go through all of the trouble to prevent exposure of blood and death to kids? What's with discouraging four letter words? Sheltering kids from sex? This just seems ridiculous to me, because it has no long term duration, by the time a kid is 10 years old, every curse word is part of their everyday language. I don't think we should consider these words bad anymore, no one is offended by them, we all use them.

    In anime, well in japan in general the words that translate into our curse words are used by kids, with very little discipline...

    -stops-

    You know, I feel like this is too broad a topic, I feel like I'm writing a wikipedia article. I'll just restate my position; Anime & Cartoons are completely different genres, and can't be compared. I think it is a shame Anime is a subculture, I think that it's plots, diversity, and uncensored approach is correct.
    Last edited by _Freddie_; 06-20-2008 at 01:25 PM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    Western Cartoons and Anime don't have anything in common except they are both animated. The similarities end there. Western Cartoons all have "Cold starts" and "Cold endings" which means each episode has it's beginning, problem, climax, solution, end. You do not have to watch the first episode of Ed, Edd & Eddy to enjoy the other episodes, while references to previous episodes may be made, they are not needed to grasp the plot.
    You are deluding yourself into believing anime is more than what it is. Allow me to offer counter examples.
    I think when it comes to the cartoons in a series, the best example would be the X-Men cartoon we had several years back. That was absolutely a series that you wanted to watch start to finish, not just jump in the middle of it.

    On the other hand, we have anime that is not dependent on the series. For example, Shin-chan and Ebichu are a couple of them. They are comedy, plain and simple. No story required.

    What we see here is that both anime and Western cartoons have examples of both types of shows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    Anime is, in my opinion, better than Cartoons though. I do not understand the censorship that is plaguing America. Why go through all of the trouble to prevent exposure of blood and death to kids? What's with discouraging four letter words? Sheltering kids from sex? This just seems ridiculous to me, because it has no long term duration, by the time a kid is 10 years old, every curse word is part of their everyday language. I don't think we should consider these words bad anymore, no one is offended by them, we all use them.
    I know you may believe that things can't be enjoyable unless there is blood, sex, profanity, and other things deemed in America to be "adult themes", but honestly. Some of my favorite anime shows never even touched on these. For example, DiGi Charat. Hilarious, I watch it over and over, and the violence is restricted to what I can only describe as "Looney Toons grade".

    I mean, we have our Beavis and Butthead, and our Family Guy. We have plenty of cartoons that are marketed to an older crowd, with more "mature" themes. I like them well enough for what they are, too. I think the Star Wars Clone Wars miniseries is a good example for you too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    You know, I feel like this is too broad a topic, I feel like I'm writing a wikipedia article. I'll just restate my position; Anime & Cartoons are completely different genres, and can't be compared. I think it is a shame Anime is a subculture, I think that it's plots, diversity, and uncensored approach is correct.
    Anime is absolutely a subgenre of the larger category of cartoons. Anime may be your favorite genre, but I'm telling you right now. It's not because it's a better genre. It's because it fits the things that you prefer.

    I enjoy a lot of anime. I enjoy it very much, in fact. But don't try and fool yourself. Because when it comes down to it, anime really is just cartoons. And I'm no more or less inclined to watch anime than I am to watch anything else that I enjoy.


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  12. #37
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    To me, the reason why people are getting out of the "cartoon phase" is that cartoons were made for little kids. Anime has something for everyone, and it wasn't created to cater to any particular age group. Cartoons are censored and a little cheesy because it was created to be enjoyed by children. When it comes to animation, the things drawn in cartoons are a lot simpler and a lot less complex, and in anime, everything is drawn more realistically. And the simpler animation is ment to be seen by little kids and is most likely ment to educate them(that's why it's quite predictable and has a lesson at the end of an episode). Adults tend to like more realistic shows, and that's why when you grow up, cartoons becomes a tad boring and you want something you can relate to because you're growing up, and in this stage of your life, anime is what fits your specs, I guess *deep breath*

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Chii Motosuwa View Post
    To me, the reason why people are getting out of the "cartoon phase" is that cartoons were made for little kids.
    That doesn't apply to the following:

    1) Simpsons/Futurama/South Park/Boondocks/Family Guy/etc.
    2) Certain cartoons that claimed they were aimed at kids (I'm sorry, I hated Batman: TAS as a kid. Then 10 years later, I rewatched it, and thought, "holy cow, no wonder I didn't like it. This show was aimed at teenagers and up"). Other cartoons like Justice League/JLU, Samurai Jack, and Avatar seem more appropriate for pre-teens and up. Also, I personally wouldn't show a little kid movies like Batman: Mask of the Phantasm or Transformers: The Movie (god, that one messed me up as a kid seeing dozens of my beloved characters get killed).

    The shows have plenty of elements that can be better appreciated by adults than little kids. Yes, they do have plenty of elements for kids, but so does most anime. Unless you think it takes an adult to appreciate Edward Elric's whining about his height.....
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Chii Motosuwa View Post
    To me, the reason why people are getting out of the "cartoon phase" is that cartoons were made for little kids. Anime has something for everyone, and it wasn't created to cater to any particular age group. Cartoons are censored and a little cheesy because it was created to be enjoyed by children. When it comes to animation, the things drawn in cartoons are a lot simpler and a lot less complex, and in anime, everything is drawn more realistically. And the simpler animation is ment to be seen by little kids and is most likely ment to educate them(that's why it's quite predictable and has a lesson at the end of an episode).
    You are proceeding from a very narrow view of western animation. There are plenty of western animation that is nothing like what you are describing.

    The Critic, Duckman, Drawn Together, South Park, [That show with a little George Bush], Simpsons, American Dad, Family Guy, Bevis and Butthead, Daria, King of the Hill, Futurama, Aeon Flux, The Brak Show, Space Ghost from Coast to Coast, Sealab 2021, Venture Brothers, Home Movies, The Oblongs, Stoker and Hoop, Frisky Dingo, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Perfect Hair Forever, Metalocolypse, Squidbillys, Assy McGee, Moral Orel, Robot Chicken, Xavier: Renegade Angel, The Boondocks, 12oz Mouse, Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law, Minoriteam, among others, provide more then a counter argument for your view.
    Adults tend to like more realistic shows, and that's why when you grow up, cartoons becomes a tad boring and you want something you can relate to because you're growing up, and in this stage of your life, anime is what fits your specs, I guess *deep breath*
    This is probably why, as a rule, extremely few Japanese people watch anime after graduating high school.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    The Critic, Duckman, Drawn Together, South Park, [That show with a little George Bush], Simpsons, American Dad, Family Guy, Bevis and Butthead, Daria, King of the Hill, Futurama, Aeon Flux, The Brak Show, Space Ghost from Coast to Coast, Sealab 2021, Venture Brothers, Home Movies, The Oblongs, Stoker and Hoop, Frisky Dingo, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Perfect Hair Forever, Metalocolypse, Squidbillys, Assy McGee, Moral Orel, Robot Chicken, Xavier: Renegade Angel, The Boondocks, 12oz Mouse, Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law, Minoriteam, among others, provide more then a counter argument for your view.
    I have never seen so many crap programmes listed in one place before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    This is probably why, as a rule, extremely few Japanese people watch anime after graduating high school.
    Any proof on this? Because I know for a fact that many, many Japanese citizens still watch Anime and have already been through school and College. Go to an Anime expedition in Japan and see for yourself. You will find more 30 year old men with jobs there than you will students.
    Last edited by Amray; 06-21-2008 at 09:49 AM.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amray View Post
    I have never seen so many crap programmes listed in one place before.
    Don't change the subject, your subjective opinion on those programs is completely irrelevant. You had said that the majority of animated programs were aimed at little children. MP2000 provided a huge list of cartoons that show your argument doesn't hold up. The argument was whether most cartoons are aimed at little children, not if you personally like said cartoons.
    My name is Kakashi Hatake. What I like....I don't feel like telling you that. My dreams for the future...hmm, never really thought about that. As for my hobbies...well, I have many hobbies.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regex View Post
    I know you may believe that things can't be enjoyable unless there is blood, sex, profanity, and other things deemed in America to be "adult themes", but honestly. Some of my favorite anime shows never even touched on these. For example, DiGi Charat. Hilarious, I watch it over and over, and the violence is restricted to what I can only describe as "Looney Toons grade".

    I mean, we have our Beavis and Butthead, and our Family Guy. We have plenty of cartoons that are marketed to an older crowd, with more "mature" themes.
    While the rest of your criticism was still a bit unnecessarily cynical, this is the only part I have a problem with. I said I have a problem with censorship, I've enjoyed shows without Adult themes, Asatte no Houkou was a cute and interesting 12 episode anime that was just a slice of life. However I think artworks should be shown the way the Artist meant for them to be seem. For instance in Initial D I know Tokyo Pop edited out Softcore Sex scenes, and more or less completely removed the relationship between two characters.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doom85 View Post
    Don't change the subject, your subjective opinion on those programs is completely irrelevant. You had said that the majority of animated programs were aimed at little children. MP2000 provided a huge list of cartoons that show your argument doesn't hold up. The argument was whether most cartoons are aimed at little children, not if you personally like said cartoons.
    Chane the subject? I was doing no such thing as I did not even know what the subject was. I just wanted to make a quote on the other guys post, nothing more. Just because I post does not mean I was aiming anything at anyone. Also, the first quote I made to that post I know was irrelevant, I just thought I would say it anyway from my views and opinions, that is all.
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  19. #44
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    Yeah, I'm sorry ^^;;;; I forgot all about those shows!! O.O;;;;

    Oh, Hi-deeki, imagine... your kind not eating raw fish! ^_^


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE38SKRT4ak



  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amray View Post
    Any proof on this? Because I know for a fact that many, many Japanese citizens still watch Anime and have already been through school and College. Go to an Anime expedition in Japan and see for yourself. You will find more 30 year old men with jobs there than you will students.
    Very interesting. Are you able to cite your source for this information?


  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amray View Post
    I have never seen so many crap programmes listed in one place before.
    Well, you name some Animu, and I'll say it sucks. But whether or not you like it has nothing to do with whether or not it exists.

    Any proof on this? Because I know for a fact that many, many Japanese citizens still watch Anime and have already been through school and College. Go to an Anime expedition in Japan and see for yourself. You will find more 30 year old men with jobs there than you will students.
    I know many people still use Ham Radios and go to Ham Radio Conventions to hang around with other people who use Ham Radios. Doesn't have anything to do with raw numbers or acceptability in society. Also, this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Datenshi View Post
    There are multiple angles to tackle this, but I'll choose to address your primary statement.

    There is a relatively obvious explanation for this, and that is that animation is less accepted by the Japanese public than in Western societies.

    You might find this doubtful, since Japan is supposedly the birthplace of what the world calls anime today. However, recall the negative connotations associated with the word otaku, which is frequently used to describle audiences of anime in Japan:

    As you can see here, in Japan anime, as opposed to manga, which is widely read by all ages, is strictly relegated to subculture, and has seldom been recognized as a mainstream genre (Miyazaki being a prominent exception). Batman and Spiderman are a household name in the West, but nobody in my class in school has probably ever heard of Elfen Lied or Witchblade.

    What this means is that exactly because anime was considered a minor genre, creators had a great deal of freedom in making anime, since it was never meant to be shown to the public in the first place, but rather targeted at a very narrow audience. It's similar to how indies labels are traditionally more artistically oriented than a major company, which is more interested in making a profit.
    This post epitomizes what I almost always hear from humans that actually live in Japan. It's alright when you are an adolecent, but it's social stigma anywhere past that.
    Last edited by Manhattan_Project_2000; 06-21-2008 at 09:12 PM.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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  22. #47
    Junior Member Mon1018 is just really nice Mon1018 is just really nice Mon1018 is just really nice Mon1018 is just really nice Mon1018 is just really nice Mon1018's Avatar
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    Very informative indeed!
    Thank you for the info. you seem to be a nice guy.

  23. #48
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    I want to throw Avatar: The Last Airbender into the ring. It doesn't follow the typical mode of Western cartoons.


  24. #49
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    Well sorry but it just seems to me that you are only picking out the bad points of Anime and the good points about Western Animation. So what exactly are you implying by explaining this? That Anime does not have more than one different genre but WC's do? You can sit there and list millions of WC's that break peoples opinions but not Anime?

    All I have seen so far in this thread are Americans basically supporting their views on WC's, which I understand, but then are basically saying that Anime is worse for no reason and that they dislike it. I have not seen one person in this thread that is supporting WC's say anything about Anime, good or bad...at all. Then you come down on all the people that say Anime is better like a tonne of bricks basically saying "AMERICAN ANIMATION IS BETTER BECAUSE [so and so], THEREFORE YOU ARE WRONG!" But if they have said something about Anime then it is a bad view on it. Read through the posts yourselves, that is all it seems like.

    You can shove all the good points about Cartoons in my face all day for all I care, it will not change the fact that I prefer Anime a lot more than...them. That's my opinion. So what if they have many different genres? So does Anime. You have Neon Genesis Evangelion that is basically about a humans psychology with added drama and action, then you have Excel Saga which makes South Park look like a sensible childs programme.

    Yes, this is me supporting Anime, just like you are supporting Cartoons, but who the hell else is?
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amray View Post
    Well sorry but it just seems to me that you are only picking out the bad points of Anime and the good points about Western Animation. So what exactly are you implying by explaining this? That Anime does not have more than one different genre but WC's do? You can sit there and list millions of WC's that break peoples opinions but not Anime?

    All I have seen so far in this thread are Americans basically supporting their views on WC's, which I understand, but then are basically saying that Anime is worse for no reason and that they dislike it. I have not seen one person in this thread that is supporting WC's say anything about Anime, good or bad...at all. Then you come down on all the people that say Anime is better like a tonne of bricks basically saying "AMERICAN ANIMATION IS BETTER BECAUSE [so and so], THEREFORE YOU ARE WRONG!" But if they have said something about Anime then it is a bad view on it. Read through the posts yourselves, that is all it seems like.

    You can shove all the good points about Cartoons in my face all day for all I care, it will not change the fact that I prefer Anime a lot more than...them. That's my opinion. So what if they have many different genres? So does Anime. You have Neon Genesis Evangelion that is basically about a humans psychology with added drama and action, then you have Excel Saga which makes South Park look like a sensible childs programme.

    Yes, this is me supporting Anime, just like you are supporting Cartoons, but who the hell else is?
    I don't really care all that much for either genre as a whole, I just hate seeing Animu fans go "BAWWWWW ANIMU IS SUPERIOR BECUZE ITZ MOAR MATUR." I'm argueing against that point, which is why I'm defending Western Animation. There are a few cartoons in both genres that are worth watching, but most are filled with epic fail.

    Specific points:
    That Anime does not have more than one different genre but WC's do? You can sit there and list millions of WC's that break peoples opinions but not Anime?
    Can you point out anywhere where I said anything like this?

    All I have seen so far in this thread are Americans basically supporting their views on WC's, which I understand, but then are basically saying that Anime is worse for no reason and that they dislike it. I have not seen one person in this thread that is supporting WC's say anything about Anime, good or bad...at all. Then you come down on all the people that say Anime is better like a tonne of bricks basically saying "AMERICAN ANIMATION IS BETTER BECAUSE [so and so], THEREFORE YOU ARE WRONG!" But if they have said something about Anime then it is a bad view on it. Read through the posts yourselves, that is all it seems like.
    Can you point out anywhere where I said anything like this? I've said it's not as bad as the anime nerds in this thread like to think, but I'm pretty sure I've never said that it's better then anime. You need to quit putting words in my mouth.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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