Karma, Does it exist?

[Oracle]

I was in a discussion recently about the nature of Karma. To put it simply, if you sabotage other people, will you be sabotaged in turn.

I feel that the answer is no. I think that you can be a jerk all your life, and basically get away with it. Granted, everyone will experience misfortune in their lives. Also noted is the fact that if you screw people over, you will create enemies. This could also increase your chances of misfortune.

My family says that what goes around comes around. If I destroy Person A's life, someone, not necessarily person A, will come around an destroy mine. I don't think this has any basis in fact.

[Hideki Motosuwa.]

Ooooo, I was once the biggest believer in, "Everyone get's what's coming to them." But now, I don't believe much in any religion, I'm growing more towards being an aetheist. I thought that if you do something bad to someone, the deed will be returned, but apparently, that never happened 0.0 I don't believe in good karma or bad, because life is life, there's nothing mystical about anything, there's just mysteries(to humans) waiting/yet to be discovered and unraveled.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

No, look at the Jews. Nothing they could have done would earn anywhere near enough bad karma to account for history.

[~Rose~]

I think so because every time I do something bad to my brother he always gets me back...some how..

[poptarts_2011]

Yes, karma does exist, but it all depends on ones perspectives in life so, that makes my answer an opinion I guess.

[~*Red*~]

Yeah, I believe in karma.

"What goes around comes around."

[International 4-8818]

Karma is for people who are like, oh religion is so alienating but i still believe in something that has a higher power that looks over me if i do good things or bad things and punishes me for the bad and rewards for the good so how i just make karma.

basically, karma is for the weak.

[Wio]

No, look at the Jews. Nothing they could have done would earn anywhere near enough bad karma to account for history.

But the most "popular" take on karma puts it as an individual thing. "The Jews" obviously are a group of people rather than an individual person.


I don't believe in karma. I think that if you do bad things, others will get hurt. This is rational enough to be a good person for me, since I don't want others to be hurt without good reason.

I think some people need karma to feel a sense of justice. This is a good thing, so I don't mind it.

basically, karma is for the week.

Are you referring to this week or next week?

[MetalKnight]

“Evil is its own reward,” and “Hate begets hates,” are probably the closest things to karma I believe… Evil tends to perpetuate others into reciprocate wrongdoings, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the misdeeds have to come around. There are a lot of cases where people have escaped justice for their wrongs – genocides, rapes, murders, pillaging, thefts, etc.

Are you referring to this week or next week?

I think he’s refering to the work week…
- cause God's resting on Sunday, so I suppose you can do whatever you want then...

[International 4-8818]

Are you referring to this week or next week?

Lol, my bad

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

But the most "popular" take on karma puts it as an individual thing. "The Jews" obviously are a group of people rather than an individual person.

So the 6 millions people who died in the Holocaust weren't individuals? The most popular version of karma implies that they did something to deserve being genocide'd.

I don't believe in karma. I think that if you do bad things, others will get hurt. This is rational enough to be a good person for me, since I don't want others to be hurt without good reason.

The law of unintended consequences guarantees that your good actions will unfairly hurt an infinite amount of people. Morality in motion is ambiguous at best.

I think some people need karma to feel a sense of justice. This is a good thing, so I don't mind it.

Not really a good thing at all. People just use the vague notion of karma to justify being sheep. Some force will punish the apparent "wrongdoers" while the small minded person sits at home. If anything, it encourages the bold to take advantage of the cowardly, since the cowardly have justified not taking care of themselves, but leaving punishment up to a universe that they feel has their best interests at hand.

It's all the fun of theism with none of (generally futile) attempts to make it actually make sense.

[Wio]

So the 6 millions people who died in the Holocaust weren't individuals? The most popular version of karma implies that they did something to deserve being genocide'd.

I don't see what's difficult to understand in what I said. "The Jews" is a group of people. Karma applies to each individual person in the holocaust, Jew or not.
Karma is a basic algorithm:
Do good => Good happens to you
Do bad => Bad happens to you

The converse of these statements doesn't have to be true for Karma to be true.

The law of unintended consequences guarantees that your good actions will unfairly hurt an infinite amount of people. Morality in motion is ambiguous at best.

In that case the law is bogus by definition because there will never be an infinite amount of people in this universe.
Even if hurt is inevitable, there are still actions (including non-action) that cause more hurt than others.

Not really a good thing at all. People just use the vague notion of karma to justify being sheep. Some force will punish the apparent "wrongdoers" while the small minded person sits at home. If anything, it encourages the bold to take advantage of the cowardly, since the cowardly have justified not taking care of themselves, but leaving punishment up to a universe that they feel has their best interests at hand.

It's all the fun of theism with none of (generally futile) attempts to make it actually make sense.

The concept of karma by itself doesn't justify non-action. Someone can apply it to justify either action: karma will act for them OR they are an agent of karma.
Whether someone should go out and hunt a wrongdoer is really a circumstantial thing anyway. Many times it's better to let something small go.

Bringing theism into this is really ridiculous. The bare concept of theism doesn't acknowledge karma, nor is it something of which is difficult to make sense.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

I don't see what's difficult to understand in what I said. "The Jews" is a group of people. Karma applies to each individual person in the holocaust, Jew or not.

The Jews are composed of individuals, some of which may deserve to be killed, most of which do not. 6 million were killed in the Holocaust, regardless of karma.

Karma is a basic algorithm:
Do good => Good happens to you
Do bad => Bad happens to you

The converse of these statements doesn't have to be true for Karma to be true.

If bad things happen to good people, and they do, we can say that karma is at best a weak effect, and probably non-existent. If we understand Karma as a hypothesis as to how the universe works, and the data is too unfavorable to support it's conclusions, we would have to ask people to come up with a better hypothesis.

In that case the law is bogus by definition because there will never be an infinite amount of people in this universe.

It is a hypothetical infinity. As long as humans (or whatever) exist, your actions will have both good and bad repercussions on them. Although if the many worlds model is true, then it would be a literal infinity.

Even if hurt is inevitable, there are still actions (including non-action) that cause more hurt than others.

But you can't determine which is which. For example, shooting Hitler in his youth would have been morally bad by most standards, but (possibly) would have had a net good effect. The kid you save from from getting squashed by a speeding car may be the next Stalin.

The concept of karma by itself doesn't justify non-action. Someone can apply it to justify either action: karma will act for them OR they are an agent of karma.
Whether someone should go out and hunt a wrongdoer is really a circumstantial thing anyway. Many times it's better to let something small go.

I'm talking about how most people actually interpret it, not how some people could potentially interpret it. Most people use karma as an excuse (or alternatively a justification) to not seek retribution rather then holy armor of justice.

Nor am I talking about eye for an eye morality.

Bringing theism into this is really ridiculous. The bare concept of theism doesn't acknowledge karma, nor is it something of which is difficult to make sense.

Divine retribution is little different from Karma. Everyone knows Christians that will "turn the other cheek" because the wrongdoer "will reap what they sow." I see little difference between one belief that the universe will help you out and another.

And Karma is just a naive assumption that the universe has some moral component that skews the dice in your favor. It isn't as justified with unfalsifiable "proofs" as any given religion. As a side effect, it is somewhat falsifiable, and as I already mentioned, can be proven false with a fair amount of certainty.

[Wio]

Good points, you win.

[Amix]

Karma is true, example: You were born, meaning that your parents did something bad in their life and you were the result of their karma.

[Faceless111]

No, look at the Jews. Nothing they could have done would earn anywhere near enough bad karma to account for history.

Well, they did kill Jesus.

[Eris]

Karma as a mystical "force" that rights wrongs -- no. See also: Politicians.

Karma as an observation that any action tends to be opposed by a reaction, that there is a nature strives for equilibrium, that the harder you push the world around you, the harder the world pushes back -- most certainly. (Though technically, this is closer to certain taoist observations than karma.)

Well, they did kill Jesus.

They played a minor part in that. It was mostly a roman affair, which in retrospect was a tremendously stupid thing to do, since he became an icon for the very meddling kids who brought Rome to it's knees. As with all would-be martyrs, they should have just locked him up in some remote dungeon and he wouldn't even be a historical footnote today.

[Pix the Skull Kid]

I'm a big believer in things like karma. I believe what you send out, comes right back to you. If you're a complete jerk to others, eventually you'll get a taste of your own medicine. If you help others, someone will help you in return. I'm pagan and most of us have a strong belief that you should not send out what you don't want to recieve back. "What ye send forth comes back to thee"

[emo_chick666]

at times i do....also i believe things happen for a reason......but im not really sure.........

[Kobarokawa-San]

i believe there is a universal law that says

if you give you will receive back

you give good things you receive good things and the same for bad things...

the name of this universal law is karma? i don´t know... you can give the names you want

[Variados]

Well, they did kill Jesus.

Hahahaha, sort of.... ^_^

I'm a big believer in things like karma. I believe what you send out, comes right back to you. If you're a complete jerk to others, eventually you'll get a taste of your own medicine. If you help others, someone will help you in return. I'm pagan and most of us have a strong belief that you should not send out what you don't want to recieve back. "What ye send forth comes back to thee"

I believe strongly in Karma... and there is no good or bad karma, just plain Karma, you can be a jerk most of your life, and most probable you will die a horrible death, and mostly alone and hated... if that is not Karma..then I do not know what is... Karma is cause and effect, and it happens every day, every time. ^_^ Karma can be form in thoughts, in feelings and actions. If you think positive you feel better than when you think negative, that is Karma. When you feel hate, you will blocked yourself from other good things, that is karma. when you do a bad thing, and it comes back to you probably immediately and if not it accumulates till it hits you... ^_^ Karma is an abstract word, each individual has an own meaning for it. So, I believe, and even if you do not believe it will still be there... just like everything else..

[Perpetual Specter]

No, I really don't believe in karma. Well, sometimes I do believe in it, but I've seen people do bad things or be a jerk, but seemed to get away with it. I suppose I believe more so in consequences than I do actual karma, because consequences do exist for certain, just as rewards do.

[Ravenblade]

I dont think I believe in Karma because it suggests that at any given point in your life, you make a decision, and you get punished for it if it was a bad one.

My issue is with the choice.

I dont believe in choice - I believe that if you knew everything about a person from the moment they were born to the moment they have to make the choice you're analysing - then you'll know what they'll do. As such, they cannot make a choice - a set of environmentally inflicted factors will be processed by their brain, resulting in only one logical conclusion to the conundrum of their 'choice'.

As a result, if they cannot choose (and are simply forced by their life experience to do one thing or the other) then what right has the universe to punish them?

Sorry if thats totally incomprehensible =P

I totally understand why some people believe in it^^

[Cotaku]

I think so because every time I do something bad to my brother he always gets me back...some how..

I think that's just called "Sibling love".
______

I'm not sure if Karma or the Three Fold Law truly exist, but I think that they SHOULD exist.

[ChibiNaruto]

Karma comes in its own little way. I do believe in it, because I believe there is a balance with everything -- ying, yang sort of thing.

It's whatever you make of it. Karma may not happen right away, but it might happen later in the future and have the same impact as you put into what you did.

I always try to make good karma, but there are times where I make some mistakes and give off some bad karma. I think my good karma balances out my bad ones.