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Thread: Now this qualifies as arts?!

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    Default Now this qualifies as arts?!

    http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/24513

    Published Thursday, April 17, 2008

    Art major Aliza Shvarts '08 wants to make a statement.

    Beginning next Tuesday, Shvarts will be displaying her senior art project, a documentation of a nine-month process during which she artificially inseminated herself "as often as possible" while periodically taking abortifacient drugs to induce miscarriages. Her exhibition will feature video recordings of these forced miscarriages as well as preserved collections of the blood from the process.

    The goal in creating the art exhibition, Shvarts said, was to spark conversation and debate on the relationship between art and the human body. ...

    "I hope it inspires some sort of discourse," Shvarts said. "Sure, some people will be upset with the message and will not agree with it, but it's not the intention of the piece to scandalize anyone."

    The "fabricators," or donors, of the sperm were not paid for their services, but Shvarts required them to periodically take tests for sexually transmitted diseases. ...

    Shvarts declined to specify the number of sperm donors she used, as well as the number of times she inseminated herself.

    Art major Juan Castillo '08 said that although he was intrigued by the creativity and beauty of her senior project, not everyone was as thrilled as he was by the concept and the means by which she attained the result.

    "I really loved the idea of this project, but a lot other people didn't," Castillo said.
    Doesn't anyone else see something wrong with this?
    I can't even imagine a pro-choice would think that this is acceptable, yet somehow having abortion for fun now seems to qualify as art!
    Last edited by Aizmov; 04-17-2008 at 06:25 PM.

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    You still don't know what liberal arts is. Art isn't the only major in liberal arts.

    And yes. That woman is crazy. As a pro-choice supporter I disagree with this.
    Last edited by Lola Granola; 04-17-2008 at 05:59 PM.

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    Sorry the link doesn't work, fixed it

    Quote Originally Posted by Lola Granola View Post
    You still don't know what liberal arts is.
    What are you trying to say? This news says that some evil arts major is having abortion as an art project.
    Are you saying I don't understand the art in abortion?

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    I'm saying I don't know why you're choosing to frame the article as to why it is a liberal art, or that it IS a liberal art, since liberal arts are much more than "painting and dancing". It would have made more sense to ask if this project is art period.

    Abortion is not art. That is my view on the subject.

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    Don't use something like this for political slander.

    It's goddamn horrible, and it's disgusting, no matter what angle you look at it from. Pro-life, Pro-choice, this is absolutely dispicable.

    "The color fades along the intervals I follow."

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    I think it is acceptable, but I'm not pro-choice, I'm pro-death. Before it's out of the womb, it's not a child. It's just cells. Even if it was a child, I wouldn't care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lola Granola View Post
    I'm saying I don't know why you're choosing to frame the article as to why it is a liberal art, or that it IS a liberal art, since liberal arts are much more than "painting and dancing". It would have made more sense to ask if this project is art period.

    Abortion is not art. That is my view on the subject.
    Doesn't Arts major fall under Liberal Arts. Liberal was all caps referring to Liberal Democrats and their support for abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xero XIII
    Don't use something like this for political slander.

    It's goddamn horrible, and it's disgusting, no matter what angle you look at it from. Pro-life, Pro-choice, this is absolutely dispicable.
    I'm not using this for anything, I've copy/pasted the Yale Daily News article, to let all of you know how beautiful Liberalism, how beautiful Art is and what being pro-choice is all about

    I sure can't wait for her to be hit by a bus, that would make a great graduation arts project wont you say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Dr. M.D. M.P. Eris View Post
    I think it is acceptable, but I'm not pro-choice, I'm pro-death. Before it's out of the womb, it's not a child. It's just cells. Even if it was a child, I wouldn't care.
    You never seize to amuse and amaze me. So pro-death it is, how would you feel if you were on the receiving end of a gun shot?
    Last edited by Aizmov; 04-17-2008 at 06:14 PM.

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    God I wouldn't even touch this story for political argument. Its too out there and not even concurrent with pro-choice. Pro-choice doesn't mean mutilate yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post
    Doesn't Arts major fall under Liberal Arts. Liberal was all caps referring to Liberal Democrats and their support for abortion.
    Don't associate this story with the entirety of the liberal arts category to downplay its integrity just because you think its useless.

    As to your concern about how you are portraying the word liberal, what was the point in posting this article? To attack liberal arts or to attack liberals who support abortion?
    Last edited by Lola Granola; 04-17-2008 at 06:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post
    You never seize to amuse and amaze me. So pro-death it is, how would you feel if you were on the receiving end of a gun shot?
    That is completely irrelevant. By pro-death, I mean that unlike those silly pro-choice people, I don't deny that abortion is the taking of a life, I simply accept it and have no problem with it.

    Besides, what she is doing is no different from male masturbation.
    Last edited by Eris; 04-17-2008 at 06:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post
    Liberal was all caps referring to Liberal Democrats and their support for abortion
    Doesn't surprise me, it is LIBERAL arts after all!
    to let all of you know how beautiful Liberalism, how beautiful Art is and what being pro-choice is all about
    What you're doing is taking the incredibly horrendous actions of a clearly foolish person to invoke political slander by placing extreme emphasis on the fact that she is a "liberal" arts major to attach her actions to the beliefs of those who take a liberal political stance.

    The fact that you would take something like what this girl has done and turn it into political ammunition is just goddamn disgraceful.

    What she did is wrong, and silly, and stupid, and a collection of adjectives I couldn't say on this forum. The issue here should not be a political one as you're trying to make it, but one of morals and common sense.

    "The color fades along the intervals I follow."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xero XIII View Post
    What she did is wrong, and silly, and stupid, and a collection of adjectives I couldn't say on this forum. The issue here should not be a political one as you're trying to make it, but one of morals and common sense.
    What she did is only wrong from a pro-life standpoint. If you're pro-choice, there is nothing objectionable with it, indeed, anyone who thinks they are pro-choice and objects to it is lying to themselves about something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xero XIII
    What you're doing is taking the incredibly horrendous actions of a clearly foolish person to invoke political slander by placing extreme emphasis on the fact that she is a "liberal" arts major to attach her actions to the beliefs of those who take a liberal political stance.

    The fact that you would take something like what this girl has done and turn it into political ammunition is just goddamn disgraceful.

    What she did is wrong, and silly, and stupid, and a collection of adjectives I couldn't say on this forum. The issue here should not be a political one as you're trying to make it, but one of morals and common sense.
    I was pissed and freaked out when I posted the article, that is a total different state of mind than the one I am in now. If it makes you feel better I'll edit out all the parts, that had any political nonsense attached to them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Dr. M.D. M.P. Eris
    That is completely irrelevant. By pro-death, I mean that unless those silly pro-choice people, I don't deny that abortion is the taking of a life, I simply accept it and have no problem with it.
    Being pro-death should apply to everything and not just killing fetuses. Or you can be more clear about it and call yourself pro-fetuses death

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Dr. M.D. M.P. Eris
    Besides, what she is doing is no different from male masturbation.
    That is totally different, a fetus, is totally different from an egg or a sperm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Dr. M.D. M.P. Eris View Post
    What she did is only wrong from a pro-life standpoint. If you're pro-choice, there is nothing objectionable with it, indeed, anyone who thinks they are pro-choice and objects to it is lying to themselves about something.
    I don't think pro-choice go as far as she did, pro-choice give more reasons to justify abortion, I'm sure an arts project doesn't justify
    Last edited by Aizmov; 04-17-2008 at 06:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Dr. M.D. M.P. Eris View Post
    What she did is only wrong from a pro-life standpoint. If you're pro-choice, there is nothing objectionable with it, indeed, anyone who thinks they are pro-choice and objects to it is lying to themselves about something.
    It isn't that black and white. I'm pro-choice. And I'm pretty sure most pro-choicers are thinking in the realm of female fertility and reproduction, SAFE and legal, NOT abortion as a form of art when they're championing their cause. I think those are two completely realms. This woman isn't thinking about abortion as a reproductive right. Obviously this is an extreme case. She's abusing it and showcasing it to everyone. People might agree that individuals have the RIGHT to bear arms. But people can still abuse this right by using the gun to murder someone. I'm not savy on the whole arms debate, but that is just an example. You can have a right. It doesn't mean you should abuse it.

    Like Xero said, common sense.
    Last edited by Lola Granola; 04-17-2008 at 06:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Dr. M.D. M.P. Eris
    By pro-death, I mean that unlike those silly pro-choice people, I don't deny that abortion is the taking of a life, I simply accept it and have no problem with it.
    I've what I feel to be an interesting question for you: at what point does something stop being a mere process and starts becoming a life? And once something becomes a life, at what point should it be considered meaningful?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Dr. M.D. M.P. Eris
    Besides, what she is doing is no different from male masturbation.
    I actually agree with this.

    Sure, I find it a little unsettling that this is being carried out for something as frivolous as a senior art project, but I honestly don't see (at least to a major extent) what separates this from the hundreds of millions of sperm cells that die naturally per male every month.

    Either way, I don't feel this project should have any bearing on the opinion of the pro-choice argument of abortion. It's being conducted quite independently of them, for reasons which I'm certain even several pro-choice people would find horrendous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    Sure, I find it a little unsettling that this is being carried out for something as frivolous as a senior art project, but I honestly don't see (at least to a major extent) what separates this from the hundreds of millions of sperm cells that die naturally per male every month.
    What I bolded/underlined is the difference.

    From a pro-life standpoint though, its also because the egg that is being aborted has already been fertilized.
    Last edited by Lola Granola; 04-17-2008 at 06:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Dr. M.D. M.P. Eris
    Besides, what she is doing is no different from male masturbation.
    I actually agree with this.
    No! Just no!
    Sperm != Fetus
    Ovum != Fetus
    It takes two to tango, either by itself is meaningless, pointless and without a value. Add them together then some time, you have a fetus that has every right you and I have to live.

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    Crap. Now I regret getting into the discussion this far. I'd hate to see this thread turn into a Pro-Life v. Pro-Choice debate under the context of the first post.

    Gonna stop now.

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    What this woman did was totally disgusting. I'm Pro-Choice and Pro-Art but I am not Pro-Stupidity...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Rambler View Post
    What this woman did was totally disgusting. I'm Pro-Choice and Pro-Art but I am not Pro-Stupidity...
    Let's get the pro-life and pro-choice argument out of the way. Since we both agree that neither of us is pro-'what she did'.
    It is not pro-stupidity, what she did is anti-human, Emacs now, I've thought about going to Yale and shooting her in the face, thankfully it was just a thought, now I'm praying to Joe Pesci that the next time she crosses a street she gets hit by a greyhound bus.
    Maybe I'm just soft-hearted, I can't handle seeing an animal die, let alone think about a human being intentionally killed for fun!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lola Granola
    What I bolded/underlined is the difference.

    From a pro-life standpoint though, its also because the egg that is being aborted has already been fertilized.
    What I was trying to emphasize is that death is a rather natural aspect of life for underdeveloped creatures, and that the difference between abortion and no abortion is statistically insignificant in this event.

    I also do not understand why a fertilized egg can be called a living being while a sperm cell is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov
    Sperm != Fetus
    Ovum != Fetus
    It takes two to tango, either by itself is meaningless, pointless and without a value. Add them together then some time, you have a fetus that has every right you and I have to live.
    This has always seemed like a semantical argument to me. I understand that they're different beings, but specifically why is one considered living while the other non-living?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber View Post


    This has always seemed like a semantical argument to me. I understand that they're different beings, but specifically why is one considered living while the other non-living?
    Simple logic, a sperm or an ovum by itself doesn't grow to become a living human being.

    I can't think of a better way than H2O. Hydrogen is flammable, Oxygen is flammable, Water isn't! Adding them together makes a huge difference!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov
    Simple logic, a sperm or an ovum by itself doesn't grow to become a living human being.
    But that doesn't change the fact that sperm are, indeed, also living creatures. From a standpoint purely from the perspective of termination of life, I don't see how one should be considered more meaningful than the other.

    Though I think in this regard we will continue to disagree, no matter what points are presented. I do respect your viewpoint regardless, and your right to have it, I simply do not agree with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber View Post


    But that doesn't change the fact that sperm are, indeed, also living creatures. From a standpoint purely from the perspective of termination of life, I don't see how one should be considered more meaningful than the other.

    Though I think in this regard we will continue to disagree, no matter what points are presented. I do respect your viewpoint regardless, and your right to have it, I simply do not agree with it.
    Sperm and ovum are not living creatures, not until you add them together and time. By themselves they have much a chance of living and growing as your body cells.
    Your body cells are alive but not living beings, and don't have 1/10 chance of becoming such. But together as a whole they make up a human being.
    A fetus is alive and will continue to grow and become a new born baby. Sperm by itself wont, ovum by itself wont.

    You know it doesn't really matter, this wasn't why I started the thread.
    Not for pro-choice vs pro-life, or any of this that me and you are discussing right now.

    I lost sight of why I posted this article!
    I don't want to turn this into a Liberal vs Conservative debate, even though I've already somehow did that..

    A lot of things went through my head when reading this, one of them, some people are trying to trivialize abortion, even worse no one took action against what she did! It is not a victimless crime, first of all victimless crime are not crimes, there are no victims, but what she done sure is a crime and the victims are the aborted fetuses!
    Last edited by Aizmov; 04-17-2008 at 07:59 PM.

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    The Rev. Dr. is right, I'm pro-choice, and don't really care two ways about it. I don't think abortion is taking life, it's taking potential life. They just didn't make the cut.
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  25. #25
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    A few things I would like to point out...
    since when does being liberal man you have less morals than a conservative person?
    When does being pro choice mean that you have less morals.
    What are morals?
    What is art?
    What is she attempting to display, what message?

    Do I agree with what she has done? No.
    Can I understand where she is coming from? yes.
    If she does not think that an unborn infant is life, then logical deduction means that she is only displaying cancer, in her eyes at least.

    I am pro choice, and I am pro death penalty, and I am even pro George Carlin.
    But I do not agree with abusing rights. But then I do not know what she is trying to do here. Is she attempting to do something to shock people into agreeing with some thing? I don't know. Do I think that she needs some form of help, emphatic yes. Do I think that this is an appropriate way to carry out an anti liberal agenda? no.
    Do I even think that this thread has a topic? no.
    If you are un able to even answer what art is, and what morals are than it is inappropriate to judge what she is doing on that level. I for example am unsure of what art is, and I love philosophy, but I do know what rights are. and I know that this is an abuse of them.
    legally this is not murder, it is self mutilation. In the purest and most consertiave eyes this is not life she is distroying, just a defective limb.

    in closing, be warrie of accusing liberals of atrocities. remember that conservatives are just as dirty as you label us.
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