Question!

[Nytyngayl]

So, the way my random mind works, I was basically holding a Japanese conversation with myself and somehow the topic of karaoke came up, and one side of it was someone saying that they couldn't sing.

Which stumped me.

What is the potential form of the verb 歌う？　Is it 歌えます　or 歌いられます？

Also know that I am afraid to put this into a translator as what I'm likely to get is 歌ってできます and that's not what I want.

In any case, like I said, totally random, but it's now bugging me and I'd like an answer.

<3

Nytyngayl

[tetekmakhang]

歌えます

if u wanna be all modest and say that you cant sing, say あたしぜんぜん歌えないの　

[Nytyngayl]

Sweet. That's what I thought, but I wasn't quite sure.

Thanks! ^__^

<3

[Ertai87]

The rule I learned in Japanese class:

Group 1 verbs (i.e. not Group 2 or Group 3 verbs...yes, that is the easiest way to explain it): Change 3-dan to 4-dan (う line to え line) and add る

e.g. 歌う -> 歌える

Group 2 verbs (ending in 〜える or 〜いる, with exceptions like 帰る、走る、知る): Drop る, add 〜られる

e.g. 見る -> 見られる

Group 3 verbs (する, 来る) are special:

する -> できる
来る -> 来(こ)られる

Then if you memorize what the exceptions to the Group 2 verbs are (exceptions to Group 2 become Group 1), the rest is really easy.

[Yiuel]

I've been tought a way to distinguish both groups : you learn the negative form of each verb. Ichi-dan verbs will have negatives in -enai and -inai. Go-dan verbs will have negatives in -anai.

Finally, kuru is konai (the only one behaving like that) and suru is shinai (but it has the special ancient-style negative sezu, as in 俺（おれ）は何（なに）もせずに行（い）けるようになったのだ。)

歌ってできます

This form is incorrect. However, you can have a form like this :

歌（うた）うことが出来（でき）る

if u wanna be all modest and say that you cant sing, say あたしぜんぜん歌えないの

Ｉ'd definitely say 俺（おれ）ってぜんぜん歌（うた）えねー(or へん)もん。But that's a matter of style (and sex).

[Nytyngayl]

The rule I learned in Japanese class:

Group 1 verbs (i.e. not Group 2 or Group 3 verbs...yes, that is the easiest way to explain it): Change 3-dan to 4-dan (う line to え line) and add る

e.g. 歌う -> 歌える

Group 2 verbs (ending in 〜える or 〜いる, with exceptions like 帰る、走る、知る): Drop る, add 〜られる

e.g. 見る -> 見られる

Group 3 verbs (する, 来る) are special:

する -> できる
来る -> 来(こ)られる

Then if you memorize what the exceptions to the Group 2 verbs are (exceptions to Group 2 become Group 1), the rest is really easy.

See I know all that, but for some reason, I just couldn't come up with what the one for 歌う

:/

歌ってできます

This form is incorrect. However, you can have a form like this :

Yes, I know that. If you read it, it said that I was afraid to put "can sing" into an online translator because that's what I would get and it wasn't what I was looking for.

[Yiuel]

Yes, I know that. If you read it, it said that I was afraid to put "can sing" into an online translator because that's what I would get and it wasn't what I was looking for.

I don't think translators would have come up with something like that. Utatte dekiru is a possible phrase, but it would have a different meaning. (Something like "I can do it by song", somewhat different from "I can sing")

[tetekmakhang]

lol.....although im sure Nytyngayl is grateful that people have put in the effort to chip in with answers, i think u guys really should read her question properly first (reading other people's answers like Mistresspookychan said in a previous thread would help too) before you start reproducing an exact copy of a 300 page japanese textbook on this forum

She just asked a simple question which was "Is it 歌えます　or 歌いられます？". Also you can see that she knows some kanji which logically means that she already knows all those rules except that it just so happens that 歌う has her stumped

[Nytyngayl]

lol.....although im sure Nytyngayl is grateful that people have put in the effort to chip in with answers, i think u guys really should read her question properly first (reading other people's answers like Mistresspookychan said in a previous thread would help too) before you start reproducing an exact copy of a 300 page japanese textbook on this forum

She just asked a simple question which was "Is it 歌えます　or 歌いられます？". Also you can see that she knows some kanji which logically means that she already knows all those rules except that it just so happens that 歌う has her stumped

Well I hope I know some kanji, considering I'm going to Japan in April >>;;

But thanks. That's basically it.

I don't think translators would have come up with something like that. Utatte dekiru is a possible phrase, but it would have a different meaning.

Translators make me wary anyway. In my experience, they haven't done potential form, and that's what I was looking for.

[Datenshi]

Well, they say the best way to really learn a thing is to try to teach it to somebody yourself, so I wouldn't be so quick to discourage irrelevant output, as long as it's not in excess. At least it's better than a mechanical question and answer session, IMO.