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Thread: This may tickle your sociological fancy...

  1. #1
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    Default This may tickle your sociological fancy...

    "Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship."
    ~Oscar Wilde






    Basically this is saying that no matter what, there will always be a sexual undertone in male/female relationships. This obviously excludes gays, siblings, etc.

    I am inclined to disagree, I definitely have friends that are girls that I am simply friends with and nothing else. I don't see them in a different light than any of my other friends.

    I think that I really don't want this to be true because it is basically an insult to every presumably genuine relationship I have had with a girl, but the more I think about it the more true it seems, as almost every girl I've been friends with has, at one time or another had a thing for me. Even if the feelings aren't mutual, if it's on one end of the relationship then it counts.

    I do however wonder if this quote was merely suggesting that every person on earth is a slave to their base - animal if you will - instincts. If so I think Mr. Wilde underestimates human emotional development and, indeed, sincerity of a lot of the people in the world.

    I thought that this would provoke a bit of stimulating discourse.
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  2. #2
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    I do however wonder if this quote was merely suggesting that every person on earth is a slave to their base - animal if you will - instincts. If so I think Mr. Wilde underestimates human emotional development and, indeed, sincerity of a lot of the people in the world.
    This is a perfectly logical theory. The quote ("Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.") could easily be an overdramatized statement showing how two people interact with one another. How friendship does not drive humans, but the underlying gains that we can possess such as "worship, love, passion" and several other things.

    Moreover, this is "between men and women", meaning that it isn't exactly "man x woman" nor "man x man/woman x woman". It simply is stating, as most quotes often do, for all of humanity. It's not a homophobic remark and I find most of our society these days to be very defensive and overly sensitive over almost ANY subject brought into light.

    Furthermore, why should you care of another's opinion if it contradicts your own? Base your own opinions and beliefs on your own experiences; quotes from any person are simply that- opinions and beliefs based on their experiences.

    tl;dr- follow your own beliefs and opinions, not that of others.
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  3. #3
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    Hmmm..... I'm not sure I quite agree with the theory. There aren't many women in my country with the same interests I have, i.e. the anime, PC games and such. Hence most of my friends tend to be men. But I must admit that it becomes hard to draw the line. I have 6 close guy friends and out of the 6, 3 of them I later found out had interests in me. Two years back I found out about the truth but being friends, we were all very open about the issue and it was clear I didn't have any feelings for them. In any case, they are still people I can depend on and call whenever I'm in need.

    Based on my own experiences, I'd say that staying friends is a possibility. Though more often than not, the relationship, may not have started out with just that friendly intention.

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  4. #4
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    I don't know. As for my self the few female friends that I do have where botched attempts at a relationship. the over whelming majority of my friends, and associates are male.
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  5. #5
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    I get the impression that he was trying to explain that period in ones life when you get the feeling of receiving "mixed signals" and the fact that a lot of people never seem to surpass that stage. It's like confusing passion with actual love, or an act of friendship (or good manners) with flirting.
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  6. #6
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    Whoa, whoa, WHOA.

    Where does Mr. Wilde exclude gays and siblings in his statement?

    Besides, one should never take the words of a mentally unstable dandy like Wilde seriously when it comes to relationships.

    Then there's the matter of the times, and the difference between then and now in the disparity between the genders, blah blah et cetera.
    Last edited by Sanosuke23; 02-20-2008 at 02:47 PM.

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    I wish I could say it's bullocks, but from personal experience I can't have close male friends for that very reason =/ Though it isn't reciprocated from my end. That's something.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara has a reputation beyond repute Kamara Sagara's Avatar
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    He probably said that because he was attracted to every female he met and was unable to have a platonic relationship with the opposite gender. And thus thought it applied to everyone else.
     
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    Senior Member Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamara Sagara View Post
    He probably said that because he was attracted to every female he met and was unable to have a platonic relationship with the opposite gender. And thus thought it applied to everyone else.
    Kinda. His first female love got engaged so he left Ireland, and after he was publicly shamed his wife and kids changed their last name and kept their distance.

    But he preferred young boys.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanosuke23 View Post
    Kinda. His first female love got engaged so he left Ireland, and after he was publicly shamed his wife and kids changed their last name and kept their distance.

    But he preferred young boys.
    Maybe he was attempting to conceil that fact by statements such as that then. *shrugs*
     
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamara Sagara View Post
    Maybe he was attempting to conceil that fact by statements such as that then. *shrugs*
    No, he was fairly open about it. He described his own sexuality as "Socratic," according to wikipedia.

    Still, I wouldn't listen to what an emo poof like him had to say about the nature of platonic relationships between the sexes.

    I enjoy his witticisms, he would have been fun to hang around with, but I wouldn't place much value in his relationship advice.

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    I think there is no difference between friendship with different sexes and same sexes. I just view my female friends as friends who are girls nothing more.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComposerOfRequiems View Post

    Furthermore, why should you care of another's opinion if it contradicts your own? Base your own opinions and beliefs on your own experiences; quotes from any person are simply that- opinions and beliefs based on their experiences.
    This was the only part of your post I didn't quite follow. If you applied this to every conversation (especially an argumentative one) then nothing would progress.

    Ex: Person 1: "I think Bob is a respectable person."
    Person 2: "I think Bob is a delusional nutcase."
    Person 1: "Well screw you! Your opinion contradicts mine and therefore I shouldn't have to take your point of view into consideration!"

    Not only is this egocentric, but it will make you look like a close minded fool. Yes, you should base your opinions off of what you have experienced in the past, but you should also take new opinions into consideration. If you don't then you are left with this notion that your views are the most valid and most important because they are simply that, what you've seen and/or experienced instead of viewing the whole picture, everyone's perspective. Opinions can be easily swayed if you listen to what someone else has to say. I've had people with opinions in direct disagreement of mine, and after considering their point of view my opinion changed.

    An intelligent and open-minded poster has a way of changing people's opinions.

    Ex: Person 1: "I think our country being at war is stupid."
    Person 2: "I think it is in the best benefit of our country and here is a list of facts to support my opinion."

    An idiot would do the following: "Screw off! Your opinion is in disagreement with mine so you're a moron!"
    An open-minded person would do this: "Actually, I never looked at it that way." Or..."I disagree and here is a list of facts to support my opinion." Something to that effect. This isn't a rule of thumb of course; I see very few people in society follow this. People have a tendency to want to be stubborn.


    Anyway, that is all I was trying to get across. I apologize for obviously being offtopic in relation to the original post.
    Last edited by Azel; 02-20-2008 at 05:38 PM.

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    Thank goodness, a thread that's NOT about a baby brat complaining about "why do other members have higher rep than me, they iz spammers and chat-people and I've been here for a bajillion years I have no life WAHH!!"

    Back to the question: I disagree with the quote as well. My closest peeps were always guys, and I never wanted to date any of them.
    Last edited by Guerrera; 02-20-2008 at 09:22 PM.
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  15. #15
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    I disagree with this statement as well, because like a lot of you guys said, I have a genuine friendship with a couple of guys.

    However, I doubt that it means that we are enslaved to that particular (animal-like) instinct because like you said there is emotional development and also, unlike the animals, reason. I think this factor helps us to comprehend and control this animal-like instinct.

    All my opinion though...
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    I think that Wilde's quote is neither wholly right or wholly wrong. There's exceptions to every rule, sweeping generalizations are almost always false. It depends entirely on the relationship in view at the time.

    That being said, I believe Oscar was more right than wrong. I know that most friendships with the opposite sex had an attraction that went beyond 'strictly platonic' on one side or another.

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    I don't quite understand the quote. First of all, if you are were in some romatic relationship with someone, it's pretty much granted that you're friends.

    But that is assuming that he is saying what I interpreted. The quote is ambiguous to mean a number of other things. Could it be challenging the definition of frienship?

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    i dont feel like giving a response with some shed of intelligence at the moment i just want to sy something that i think is related to this...

    people often seem to think that i am a woman and then approach me... but once they find out that i am not they simply disappear like god knows what... i just want people to know this now so that no one will be wasting my time anymore if their real interest is related to me being a woman... and no i am not gay either so i hope that settles it...

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  19. #19
    Senior Member Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers has a reputation beyond repute Ramona Flowers's Avatar
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    Not completely true. I've had friendships without a any sexual undertone.

    But it is kinda fun being tease from time to time.

  20. #20
    D's Wifey! NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon has a reputation beyond repute NinnaMoon's Avatar
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    That cold be true. I mean those feeling could just flow in one of the two. If the guy doesn't feel anything for the girl, the girl could feel something for the guy. Vise versa! But the sibling thing, that's just not possible. *yuck*
    ~♡Ņēnn@♡~

  21. #21
    Digital Plague demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight's Avatar
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    they say you should marry your best friend, that statement in and of its self has merit on this argument. no?
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  22. #22
    Senior Member Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian has a reputation beyond repute Hypergraphian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonplight View Post
    they say you should marry your best friend, that statement in and of its self has merit on this argument. no?
    Well... it really depends. Best friends of the same sex when you're not gay could cause some problems with this statement, or basically, best friends who do not seem to have any sexual attraction to each other.

    I remember watching on a documentary about how our bodily chemicals and 5 senses do affect our partner choices to a certain extent. When people smell, taste, look or speak a certain way, they give out certain signals that reflect a chemical balance that may match our own bodily structure and thus, will provide better synergies for more successful offspring. These people/ matches would appear more attractive than people who don't have as good a mix. Hence the "Chemistry" term. But of course, chemistry plays only a fraction of the whole partner choice issue.

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  23. #23
    Moderator Probie ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~ has a reputation beyond repute ~*Red*~'s Avatar
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    I've also had friendships without any sexual undertones, and I am still friends with those people today.
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  24. #24
    Digital Plague demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight has a reputation beyond repute demonplight's Avatar
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    we are made to bread, it is the single that that will insure that the species will survive till tomorrow. I think that is why we make relationships. either to breed, or to gain strength so that when we do breed, they will survive. so either your relations fit into one of two categories, mates, or security.
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  25. #25
    SPARKLE SPARKLE!!! Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra has a reputation beyond repute Myrra's Avatar
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    I think people are failing to take some basic things into consideration here.
    We're supposedly intelligent beings capable or reigning in our emotions and controlling our actions.
    Just because one or the other has feelings for the other one does not mean that person will act on it. My best friend since the age of 12 is a man. While I can't say I never had feelings for him (he's 3 years older and I had a crush on him at one point in my teens), I never acted on them and we have remained the best of friends even as adults.
    One can maintain a platonic relationship if both parties wish it.
    Is it easy? No
    Is it worth it? Depends on the people.
    I personally feel it is worth it.
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