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Thread: Is abortion murder?

  1. #126
    Senior Member Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
    Got a problem with facts?
    No, and when you post some I'll stop laughing and debate with you in earnest.
    Visit the Toy Dungeon Studios Store and buy a shirt or zipper pull, damnit!

  2. #127
    Member Chimera is just really nice Chimera is just really nice Chimera is just really nice Chimera is just really nice Chimera's Avatar
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    Okay... what? Who's side are you on

    I was actually talking to the girl above you.

  3. #128
    Senior Member Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola's Avatar
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    Chimera: Have you ever had an abortion? That really isn't what the mother sees.

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyWolf14 View Post
    I'm against abortion not just because your depriving an unborn child from attempting to have a life but because if you're stupid enough to get pregnant when your too young or are incapable then you deserve to have to have the baby. I can understand if it was conceived because of rape or if having the baby will kill you but really. Its ridiculous that so many teenage girls can get all knocked up and then just be like 'Oh, I'm gonna go get rid of it cause it was an accident.'



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    Last edited by Lola Granola; 02-01-2008 at 04:43 PM.

  4. #129
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    Maybe, but I think that out of 45 million babies that have been aborted since 1976... a few million could of been prevented.
    Last edited by Chimera; 02-01-2008 at 04:45 PM.

  5. #130
    Senior Member Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
    Maybe, but I think that out of 45 million babies that have been aborted since 1976... a few million could of been prevented.
    Enjoy your fundamentalist christian propoganda sites that don't list a specific number or supply documentation.
    Visit the Toy Dungeon Studios Store and buy a shirt or zipper pull, damnit!

  6. #131
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    I see now... well maybe you could look it up somewhere.

    It's all true.

  7. #132
    Senior Member Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
    Maybe, but I think that out of 45 million babies that have been aborted since 1976... a few million could of been prevented.
    And that's meant to be a bad thing?

    Think about global warming, the world's resources, overpopulation.. And also how many murderers, rapists, serial killers, thugs, bullies that would have been born from them.. EDIT: Sorry forgot drug lords, hookers, and paedophiles.

    Not every fetus is an angel.
    Last edited by Ikaruga; 02-01-2008 at 04:49 PM.

  8. #133
    Senior Member Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola's Avatar
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    Not to mention, you really need to catch up on World history and current events. Not all countries are willing to provide or can afford birth control to their citizens. Let alone individually. Pregnancies can't always be prevented, and I'm assuming your "statistics" are a global projection.

  9. #134
    Senior Member Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
    I see now... well maybe you could look it up somewhere.

    It's all true.
    You're the one posting numbers like they matter, the burden of proof is on you my friend.
    Visit the Toy Dungeon Studios Store and buy a shirt or zipper pull, damnit!

  10. #135
    Member Chimera is just really nice Chimera is just really nice Chimera is just really nice Chimera is just really nice Chimera's Avatar
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    Yeah I'm bored of this now.

    You're for it, I'm against it (mostly), you're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours... can we be mature and leave it at that?

  11. #136
    Senior Member Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola's Avatar
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    The purpose of a forum is to create discussion. We don't hate you for what you believe in but as long as you say something we disagree on we're going to reply to it. Whether it is convincing to your or not.

  12. #137
    Member Chimera is just really nice Chimera is just really nice Chimera is just really nice Chimera is just really nice Chimera's Avatar
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    Okay...

  13. #138
    Senior Member Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
    Yeah I'm bored of this now.

    You're for it, I'm against it (mostly), you're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours... can we be mature and leave it at that?
    Tch.. Bored? What is this? A fun-filled abortion thread?

    And I kinda guessed that I wouldn't be able to change your mind, despite me putting up opposing points of views in a constructive way, such as when you posted shock websites, I posted up a parody of your argument, showing how weak it was.

    Then you throw about statistics like they're the truth, when obviously they're fabricated in your mind.

    Please be mature and don't do things like that... Abortion is wrong and right at the same time, but in no way is it murder, or a sin as brainwashed religious fundamentalists think...

    I'd say, look at it from all angles, rape in war? The mothers should be allowed to abort. Teen get's pregnant due to her own carelessness? I think she should keep the child and learn from her mistakes. If her boyfriend was lying about the condom? Give it up for adoption.

    Each case is different, and not necessarily as black and white as you put it. If you say I'm black and white, look at it from a logical point of view, not from a religious or immature point.

  14. #139
    Senior Member Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23's Avatar
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    Well Pro-Choice Brigade, it seems we've won the day. Let's go home and enjoy a nice smoothie.

    *rides off into the sunset*
    Visit the Toy Dungeon Studios Store and buy a shirt or zipper pull, damnit!

  15. #140
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    Ha ha ha... you couldn't leave it could you? That shows how immature you are.

    What you said before about all the murders, rapes and all that... well we are trying to stop them aren't we?

    I assume your point is, if there's so much crime, then why bother with one thing?


    I KNOW! A compromise: It does depend on the situation, but I think insted of abortion, they should have it adopted. I know quite a few couples who are on the waiting list for babies, but it's so long.

    Don't you think they should be adopted insted of aborted?
    Last edited by Chimera; 02-01-2008 at 05:08 PM.

  16. #141
    Senior Member Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
    Ha ha ha... you couldn't leave it could you? That shows how immature you are.

    What you said before about all the murders, rapes and all that... well we are trying to stop them aren't we?

    I assume your point is, if there's so much crime, then why bother with one thing?


    It does depend on the situation, but I think insted of abortion, they should have it adopted.
    Immature? That mean's I'm either;
    1. not fully formed or developed, unripe
    2. childish in behavior
    Oh wait.. I'm bored now...

    Also just to let you know, no that wasn't my point. By simply saying abortion is murder, you make it unfavourable for third world countries. And that if a child was born as a result of rape, unwanted pregnancy, he could grow up being a very unhappy, sad person don't you think? If the adopted people aren't sad or happy, they could might as well be angry, and either grow up into bad parents and such...
    Last edited by Ikaruga; 02-01-2008 at 05:15 PM.

  17. #142
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    Yeah... >_>

  18. #143
    Senior Member Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcatme View Post
    yes it is, because you actually DO kill the baby
    So what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie
    Apparently you don't have the ability to distinguish killing from murder.
    Because, you know, there's a difference. Next time try reading the post above yours.

    Last edited by Ollie; 02-01-2008 at 06:15 PM.
    This post has been approved by Dancing Alec™



  19. #144
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    Arguing in political threads on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

    I have an opinion but will not post it. If you know me you already know the answer I would give.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by myahon View Post
    Arguing in political threads on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

    I have an opinion but will not post it. If you know me you already know the answer I would give.
    Uh, thanks for sharing.

    But next time, don't. 8D
    This post has been approved by Dancing Alec™



  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyWolf14 View Post
    I'm against abortion not just because your depriving an unborn child from attempting to have a life but because if you're stupid enough to get pregnant when your too young or are incapable then you deserve to have to have the baby. I can understand if it was conceived because of rape or if having the baby will kill you but really. Its ridiculous that so many teenage girls can get all knocked up and then just be like 'Oh, I'm gonna go get rid of it cause it was an accident.'



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  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
    Momokachan, you would do well to watch the language. Even if you self-censor, cursing is prohibited.

    LOL

    Apparently you don't have the ability to distinguish killing from murder.

    "Thou shalt not kill" is a false commandment, by the way. It was "Thou shalt not murder" - and I'd like to point out, since you don't seem to realize it, that they are not one and teh same. The death sentence is not murder; it is justice, a federally/stately mandated death, decided upon by a jury, which is usually altered into more humane ways of death. Vengeance may be murder, but the death sentence certainly is not.

    You also would do well not to make comparisons of things you apparently do not comprehend. A person on death row has lost all of his rights, even to life; a fetus never had any.
    Killing and murder both result in the same abomination - the end of a human life. It does not matter whether the person is on death row, an unborn child, or a young victim on the street. Death of a human at the hands of another is unconscionable no matter which way you slice it.

    Murder, by the way, is the vengeful taking of another human's life. It can be either pre-meditated or simply murder. Thus, the death penalty would be considered murder if the justice system was not such a coward as to call it "justice", which is vengeful by nature.

    Please do not accuse people of being naive when they do have a grasp and understanding of a topic - it is unseenly.
    Sooo many thanks to .Celeste for the lovely avvy!!! ::INTUITION GFX

  23. #148
    Senior Member Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola has a reputation beyond repute Lola Granola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mira Kaiba View Post
    Killing and murder both result in the same abomination - the end of a human life. It does not matter whether the person is on death row, an unborn child, or a young victim on the street. Death of a human at the hands of another is unconscionable no matter which way you slice it.
    I can microwave canned clam chowder or cook it in a pan. Both result in the same delicious abomination - a good dinner.

  24. #149
    Senior Member Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie has a reputation beyond repute Ollie's Avatar
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    Hahahah
    HAHAHAHAA

    Winter Skye, I've had a crappy day, and you just brightened it. Hooray for religious references, eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mira Kaiba View Post
    Killing and murder both result in the same abomination - the end of a human life. It does not matter whether the person is on death row, an unborn child, or a young victim on the street. Death of a human at the hands of another is unconscionable no matter which way you slice it.
    I'd say that's completely subjective. I wouldn't say the death sentence Hitler would've had waiting for him if he hadn't killed himself an abomination.

    I can slice a human in many conscionable ways and reasons. Well, -I- wouldn't, because I don't think I have it in me to kill anything more advanced than an insect. And cuts hurt like a mother, and I wouldn't want to do that to anyone else, either.

    Once again, killing != murder. There's many ways to justify the death of another being. Refusing to see that is silly and overly idealistic.

    "No person deserves to be killed!"

    Sure they do! I imagine after ruining the lives of hundreds and/or killing dozens or causing their deaths, there's not much point in sticking a person in a small room for the rest of their life and wasting resources on 'em.

    But the argument for the death sentence is another topic. I believe there's still one available in the Pay to Post forum, if you are interested.

    I think you are right in that a fetus never really deserves to be killed, since that would imply it did something to earn it, but like I said before, a fetus doesn't deserve anything at all. It isn't a human being*, therefore it has no rights to anything, either. If it's carrier decides to keep it or abort it, it's of no importance, except to the outsiders trying to morally high-horsed outsiders who seem to think everything upwards of a woman's vagina is public opinion once it develops a small parasite that could turn into an infant.

    Once again, it was "thou shalt not kill", and murder is only a legally-defined term. A fetus is only human by its DNA. Getting an abortion on a 3-week-developed lump may be morally objective to some, but legally (and scientifically) unimportant, relatively.
    Murder, by the way, is the vengeful taking of another human's life. It can be either pre-meditated or simply murder. Thus, the death penalty would be considered murder if the justice system was not such a coward as to call it "justice", which is vengeful by nature.
    I don't think abortion is done out of revenge, seeing as how I don't really think it's possible for a woman to have an abortion out of spite directed at the clump of cells growing in her uterus.

    No, the death penalty is called 'justice' if it's done legally, through a rather slow process where it is eventually decided upon that a person no longer has the right to live. And I wouldn't think a jury of 12 random people would hunger for the vengeance of a stranger, BUT what do I know.

    So, since killing a human = murder, and murder is vengeful by nature, where do you fit deaths caused by accident? I would call drunk drivers stupid, not angry, violent and vengeful.
    Please do not accuse people of being naive when they do have a grasp and understanding of a topic - it is unseenly.
    Good thing I was accusing someone who doesn't understand the difference between killing and murdering of being naive, then, isn't it?

    (By the way, it's 'unseemly'.)


    *"I think, therefore I am" applies well to this argument; with very few exceptions, most animals, insects, and (I AM SO VERY SAD TO SAY Dx) plants are not self-aware, and (arguably) can be killed, but not murdered, due to this and other differences that are mainly mental in separating man from animal. A fetus, up to a certain stage in its development, is no better but for its genetic structure from, say, a field mouse. Seeing as how I don't believe that "God knew my soul before I was born," I see no real ethical issue for abortions done for early pregnancies.
    Last edited by Ollie; 02-01-2008 at 09:59 PM.
    This post has been approved by Dancing Alec™



  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
    Do you know what they do to the baby? They just throw it in a disposal unit (basicly a bin with a yellow sign on it)

    They are defenceless innocent children...

    DO NOT LOOK AT THIS IF YOU ARE SQUEEMISH!!
    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils..._is_murder.htm

    I just want to point out that when I was around earlier, I clicked said link. I was eating Pancakes. It had no effect what so ever on my enjoyment of said pancakes. Seriously, shock site fails epically. Didn't even have pictures of a octogenarian gay gang-bang, or a giant naked women in a tub, or a hermaphrodite enjoying themselves too much or anything.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

    The List of Hate, My self-indulgent journal-thing.
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