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Thread: Is abortion murder?

  1. #51
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    Alright, because everyone is getting their two-cents in, I suppose I shall add my thoughts on this as well. In my opinion, abortion is murder. A fetus may not be able to feel or sense pleasure until a later age, but they have a heartbeat within five and a half to six weeks of conception. This alone makes a fetus a higher life form - cells do not have heartbeats.

    Personally, I believe that a person is created at the moment of conception, and thus, they should have a say in their life. Who gave a woman the right to decide whether or not to kill her child because she does not want it? The child may be in her body, but it is not her body - it is another human who does not have a say in whether or not they live or die. The woman had the chance to make her "choice" before she had sex. Once she is pregnant, she should protect her child with her life.


    Quote Originally Posted by Momokachan View Post
    Would I want to put a child through the foster care system? Frankly, I think it would be more compassionate for the child to abort the pregnancy before that future even arrives.
    Again, who gives the woman the right to choose? What if the child wants to live? It apparently has no say in the matter, which is wrong, seeing as humans supposedly have free will.

    Who will protect those without voices? These children cannot speak for themselves. Abortion to me is clearly pre-meditated murder. There will always be those who differ in opinion.
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    Yes abortion is murder, in the same way that shooting someone in the face is murder.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post
    Yes abortion is murder, in the same way that shooting someone in the face is murder.
    That's a little extreme. If anything, it'd be closer to shooting a starving person in a famine in most cases, or burning a boquet of flowers sent by someone who raped you that had a card that read "Thanks for the memories" on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanosuke23 View Post
    That's a little extreme. If anything, it'd be closer to shooting a starving person in a famine in most cases, or burning a boquet of flowers sent by someone who raped you that had a card that read "Thanks for the memories" on it.
    You have no idea how cruel abortion is!! You can't compare killing a human to burning a boquet of flowers!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post
    Yes abortion is murder, in the same way that shooting someone in the face is murder.
    What traits does a first trimester fetus possess that make it qualify as human?
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post
    You have no idea how cruel abortion is!! You can't compare killing a human to burning a boquet of flowers!!
    I fail to see the cruelty in removing a group of cells from a womb. The only thing that gets in the way at that time is conscious, and nothing more.

    As I've said before, and I'll say again, you can't put the rights of the fetus BEFORE the rights of the mother. That'll make her into a second class citizen, to be used simply as life-support to a being that is inside her without her consent. Not to mention is UNABLE to maintain homeostasis.

    P.S. As for the cruelty thing, Partial Birth Abortions (?) are no longer legal.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post
    You have no idea how cruel abortion is!! You can't compare killing a human to burning a boquet of flowers!!
    I never compared killing a human being to burning flowers, but that's beside the point.

    The point is I will never know what it feels like to be on the recieving end of an abortion, which is precisely why I stated earlier it isn't my place to decide or judge a woman's right to do so. However, shooting someone in the face is still an extreme comparison.

  8. #58
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    I don't see the point in the continuation of this thread. It is an impossible argument. Either side can make points for their argument but is there solid fact or even evidence that abortion is murder? Is there solid fact or evidence against that argument? Can either side really prove that they're right? Is it really anyones place to judge?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azel View Post
    Either side can make points for their argument but is there solid fact or even evidence that abortion is murder? Is there solid fact or evidence against that argument?
    The concept of a soul cannot be proven or disproven, and so should be ignored from a legal standpoint. Without the "soul" argument, an undeveloped fetus is little more than a group of cells with the potential for growth, and are alive in the same way a germ is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Momokachan View Post
    You hate abortion?
    THEN DON'T GET ONE.

    For crissake, people. Until the day arrives that each abortion personally affects you, you honestly cannot judge.

    Then there's also the fact that a fetus is not neurologically developed enough to feel pain, pleasure, or anything in between, until after eleven weeks of development. Not to mention that a baby doesn't actually have any higher cognitive functions until six months of age. Long story short, the fetus can't feel, or feel anything, if it is aborted.

    Frankly, I'd rather see a teenage mother have an abortion, continue with school, and do something worthwhile. Honestly, I think the mother, who has an established life and future gets first precedence when it comes to this sort of thing.

    FUN FACT: They use medication to do abortions. The first kills the fetus, and the second causes contractions to BASICALLY NATURALLY REMOVE IT. They don't tear it out of the mother's womb, they don't burn it, and they sure as hell don't use coat hangers, thank god.

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  11. #61
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    Honestly this is a question that is actually best left to God to decide. No human knows if a baby is thinking, wondering, hoping to one day be out in the world beyond this womb. How many of us remember much of our years as an infant?

    Plus, while its inside a woman its basically a part of her physical being, and as such is her choice what happens to the child before its born.

    I say stop with yelling at abortion and start telling girls that even if they have a child that they don't want, then they should let it have the chance to be born and given up for adoption or to another family member or such.

    Its not about being morally right, but humane.

  12. #62
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    Warning: If you are easily offended, read no further and die in a ditch.

    Personally, I’m all for Abortions, Abortions for all!
    Why? Because it will prevent idiots who are too stupid to even bother using contraception (yes, it is the responsibility of the male and female) from spreading their moronic genes into the already fetid gene pool. So yes, burn it, scrape it, tear it, bite it. Whatever it takes to keep idiots from reproducing.

    If I had it my way, I’d begin practicing my own brand of selective Eugenics. Which would involve me, and a few chosen ones (Eris and MP2K are on my list) with a few shotguns, and a long, long list.

    I don’t believe in God and if I did, I would not follow a God who supposedly ‘favor’ the more politically based fanatical religious leaders who seem to feel justified in committing murder, which they preach so fervently as wrong, when they bomb clinics and shoot doctors. I can’t follow a movement so hypocritical as some of the ‘pro life’ morons.
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    my two cents: there needs to be a rule in Misc that only allows one thread on homosexuality and one thread on abortion per year. That way, we won't find another abortion thread in June!



    My two cents on the actual topic:

    No, it isn't. Comparing a first trimester fetus to a 6-month-old baby is stupid and backwards in logic, like comparing a seed that just started to sprout somewhat to a rosebush. Except the seed can grow on its own.
    This post has been approved by Dancing Alec™



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    Perhaps one day Fetuses will be forced to adapt to surviving abortion, resulting in a stronger human race. These babies have it so easy, you have to earn your right to be born!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiro Matsuchani View Post
    I fail to see the cruelty in removing a group of cells from a womb. The only thing that gets in the way at that time is conscious, and nothing more.
    Agreed. Abortion is not murder and it isn't nearly as demonizing as some people are making it out to be.

    Cheers to Washington for being the most liberal state on this issue. Abortion laws vary from state to state, I believe.

    FUN FACT: They use medication to do abortions. The first kills the fetus, and the second causes contractions to BASICALLY NATURALLY REMOVE IT. They don't tear it out of the mother's womb, they don't burn it, and they sure as hell don't use coat hangers, thank god.
    Think of it as a really bad period.

    However after a certain amount of weeks surgery becomes the only choice. And of course choosing surgery yields better chances of success. The surgery proceedure is pretty much "vacuuming" the fetus out of the womb. The word "tearing" sounds a tad more violent than it is. If you are in the early stages of pregnancy the proceedure doesn't take more than a minute. It is quite quick and painless.

    If you're one of those people who believe in the spirit of the fetus and what not, let me tell you. Spirits can wait until the time is right.
    Last edited by Lola Granola; 01-31-2008 at 04:40 AM.

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    Abortion isn't wrong and I don't think it's the same as murdering...
    If you give birth to a child you can't take care of it would be almost the same as murdering the child since you don't take care of it. It's better to do an abortion rather than give birth then in those situations.

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    Whel technically speaking,YES,abortion is murder.
    Murder is a planned out strategy of killing somebody and since a fetus is already living, killing it means murder.
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    Please people. Murder is a great marketing term for The Pro-Lifes because it comes with obvious negative connotations that make it so effective. You can't just say abortion is killing. No. Want to be more convincing? They have to use the word murder because when you think of that word, you think only of ill intentions that result in the most heinous, most terrible crimes possible. When I think of the word murder I think of jealousy, hate, revenge, plain twisted insanity, and other equivalent emotions that drive an individual to homocide. Anything that embodies spite that leads them to kill. I really don't think any of those emotions are present when a woman decides to have an abortion. It is a difficult decision to make that involves love and planning for the future.

    For example: "I had to put my dog to sleep yesterday".

    Technically it is murder. I mean you're killing something that is so obviously living, right? But is it really? No one ever says "I had to murder my dog yesterday". Using terms and phrases need to be appropriate for the context in which you are using them in. Abortion and murder are not the same things.

    Would anyone ever consider jailing a woman for making a decision to ensure a life of her own?
    Or to prevent the fetus from entering into a difficult life of its own?

    No one would ever think of jailing a woman because she had an abortion along side an actual convict that committed murder in human society.
    Last edited by Lola Granola; 01-31-2008 at 05:23 AM.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aizmov View Post
    You have no idea how cruel abortion is!! You can't compare killing a human to burning a boquet of flowers!!
    Since you claim to know, how cruel exactly is abortion? And you can't compare killing a human-to-be to shooting someone in the face. In my opinion.

    I don't think getting an abortion makes you a murderer, in the same way that killing a pig won't. Sure, unborn babys have a lot more potential than pigs, but as they are they're no more intelligent, pretty or loved (if you're considering an abortion that is.)

    I wouldn't keep a kid I didn't want. Does that make me selfish? No, it means I value my life as it is, without that kinda of anchor weighing me down.
    Last edited by Exquiro; 01-31-2008 at 06:56 AM.
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    Google Fight: Pregnancy Death Rates vs Abortion Death Rates.
    I blame the high number of abortion death-rate results on faith-based sites that count the fetal cells as a "death." However, pregnancy is, in fact, far more dangerous than an abortion. More women die from pregnancy complications than from abortion complications.

    By the way, if anyone so much as mentions that stupid Healing After website, let me tell you what it is right now: FOUR LINKS. That's it. Four links and a phone number. What are those four links? CATHOLIC SITES. Of course they're going to be biased. No conclusive, legitimate studies have shown a link between abortions and health problems.
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    either way you look at abortion or stim cell research it is still murded.
    What did I do so bad that my account is locked?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dream magician View Post
    Whel technically speaking,YES,abortion is murder.
    Murder is a planned out strategy of killing somebody and since a fetus is already living, killing it means murder.
    How many times has this been said now?

    Murder- The illegal taking of another human life with malicious intent.

    Abortion is not illegal, thus it is not murder.
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  24. #74
    Senior Member Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga has a reputation beyond repute Ikaruga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gokuman89 View Post
    either way you look at abortion or stim cell research it is still murded.
    You're not really paying attention to the thread are you?

    Let me raise a few questions that have already been raised in the previous threads and posted previously in this thread.

    Is the human life killed in an abortion a "person"? or better yet, what kind of person is a fetus? Not much really, - what makes us who we are? We are who we are because we can think with a fully developed mind. If there is no fully developed mind, there is no personhood.

    Ever thought about the fetus being innocent? Yes, but when pregnancy endangers the life and emotional welfare of the mother, the fetus is innocent no more. Think of killing in self-defense, so not really murder then, is it?

    Now then if it were murder, it needs to be:
    To be "murder" an action must involce "killing" something that was alive. However, just because of this isn't enough reason to label something as "murder". Think about it, we kill animals to eat, for food. We kill animals for fur, for leather. We kill germs with disinfectants, this is genocide.. We Kill incects, rodents and pigs and never get charged with murder. We kill each other in accident, in war, in self defense and no one screamed muder.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinglefox View Post
    Also, if a baby is born to parents that aren't ready for it, that baby is bound to have a horrible life. In most cases, the baby would grow up to be like the parents, and this cycle of irresponsibility continues.

    but that is why there is adoption......if you don't want a kid then don't risk it.......if you do get pregnant, again ADOPT IT OUT, DON'T KILL IT!!!!

    sidenote: Momokachan, I have done research on the topic, I just didn't feel like getting "technical" at that moment.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Forms_of_abortion the types I was talking about were surgical and medical abortions, look it up.....it should be considered murder because it is cruel and heartless, whether the fetus knows what is going on or not.

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