The perfect MMO

[Fenrisulfer]

I want to hear from all of you guys( and gals) what, if you could make an MMO, what would you do with it. what features would it have, how would it be played. I want to know what you think the perfect MMO should have. Like whether it whould be an RPG or FPS or whatever. Me personally would have to say RPG because thats the kind of guy i am. so please post away.

[Orca]

well most MMOS are usually rpg, unless you can name an MMO FPS which im not sure there is any. none come to mind.

well for me first off it would have to be free and worth playing. thats about it.

now if i was the one creating it, i'd be in RPG custom character creation a nice variaty of classes, most likely set in a FFX time outlook. Meaning a bit futuristic but still using swords. Quests would follow a basic storyline, though some quests will need a party. Parties being up 3 or 6 depending on the quest. nothing to big because of lag. but yeah that just a small concept. dont feel like getting really to much in depth right now. ><; a bit sleepy.

[Unknownymous]

Haha. This has been on my mind ever since we left RO years ago. Here's what my "perfect" MMORPG would be like. Be warned, this is the view of somebody who really loves roleplay.

1. Dynamic world run by players. This is most important. There would be no stupid quests that everybody has to do to progress in the storyline. I mean, come on. If the guy that talked to that NPC before you did the same "please help me recover my lost item" quest, why are you doing it again for the NPC? That's just stupid. The NPC never even leaves that spot, so how did he lose it in some faraway map?

That being said, the dynamic world run by players involves absolutely no NPCs. That's right. Every job, every person, would be a player. King ruling the kingdom is a player. His bodyguards are all players. Merchants to buy and sell stuff from are all players. People that give quests are players. Bandits on the roads are all players. People actually have "jobs", as in, the blacksmith needs raw materials for making stuff, so there has to be miners to supply him with goods. If there's a drop in the productivity of the miners, there's a drop in the productivity of the blacksmith too. So his customers ask the blacksmith what's up, and the blacksmith can ask an adventurer to go check out what's up with the miners. You see the miners sitting around the outside of the mine, and they'll tell you there's a monster inside the mine near where the important metals are. Etc., etc. You get the idea.

Ultima Online did something similar to that, with people having more jobs than just monster-killers. You want to be a dressmaker? Go ahead. You like tending sheep? Go to the sheep pen. You want to chop wood and sell it to carpenters? There's lots of trees in the forest. That kind of thing. We're not limited to the endless fights with the endless monsters. In fact, we should be allowed to never have to fight at all, if we don't want to. I mean, come on. Why does a dressmaker have to fight goblins or something, just to make clothes?

This way, people can actually focus on "roleplay", and it's not just a grindfest of people trying to become the best PVPer or whatnot.

Additionally, considering the dynamic world, there is no storyline to follow. The world turns as it would in real life, except that we're all in a fantasy world. Eventually the king may decide to do something like start a war with another nation, or raise taxes and cause people to revolt, or something like that, which is where the players decide how the story flows.

That being said, I don't want to play a game and see the story unfold. I want to be part of the people that make the story happen. Everybody can be involved, even the beggars on the street would be affected when a major game event happens.


2. No level system: no grind. Personally, I think the level system is stupid in an MMORPG. It causes people to try to be the best, leading to ultimately boring gameplay. I mean, come on. What's exciting about having to fight 30 million monsters to reach max level? By the time you're grinding the last 29 million monsters, they're all too easy that you're falling asleep at your keyboard. And when you reach max level, then what? Bragging rights to say that you're higher level than that other guy that plays one hour less than you a day, and he's level 98?

Instead of that, it'll be a skills-based system. Ultima Online did this right. By practicing and using your skills repeatedly, you get better at them. The better you are at them, the more complicated the tasks you can do, and the better quality of your work. It doesn't matter what kind of work you're doing. Whether you're fishing, raising farm animals, or even writing scrolls. If you're good at it, you can make a living out of it.


3. No idiots allowed. The bane of any MMORPG community is idiots. Even with the best gameplay, the best battle system, the best unique features, the best graphics, all of that goes to waste if your game is overrun with annoying people whose purpose in life seems to be to piss you off.

That being said, the perfect MMORPG for me would have a strict application system. Only people that are guaranteed not to be annoying idiots will be allowed to play. Because even the bandits, thieves and murderers will be players in the game. If you have somebody stupid enough to disrupt the proper and delicate gameplay balance, it stops being fun and ends up being something that all the other players will complain about.

But if it were even a mass murderer, if he were doing it the proper way, it becomes an enjoyable hunt where guards and adventurers try to bring down this insane bloodthirsty killer, who hides out in the woods with a band of thugs around him.

That kind of thing. Rather than something stupid like:
Murderer (idiot): lololo u sux i pwned u now u dead cuz u sux & i rox
Bystander: That man you murdered was just a bard. He isn't even a fighter. He just sings songs here in the fountain square.
Murderer (idiot): shutup ur stupid he jus tsux i kill u now 2
Murderer (idiot) begins attacking Bystander.

Get it? I don't know if anybody else understands me on this point, but I had to bring it out. It really bugs me about the way MMO's are run these days.


4. Freedom. This is closely-related and in fact, intertwined with #1. Players should never be forced to build their characters a certain way simply because it's "the most effective". There should never be cases like:

Spears are stronger than swords, so never use swords.

Fire elemental magic does more damage to (blablabla) so you should only use your fire elements and ignore everything else.

Use steel armor because it absorbs more damage than leather armor.


While all those things may be true, ultimately a player should not be forced to use them. There will be alternate ways to get around your problems, therefore you are not limited to using just those solutions.

For example, if somebody really likes using whips as a weapon, even if they do very low damage against heavily-armored enemies, then that person should practice a different aspect of the whip to combat heavily-armored enemies, which might be grabbing or strangulation. Or even using the whip to drive large animals that can simply crush the enemies.

Another example: what if a carpenter really enjoys making woodworked chairs? They're useless other than for decoration in a house, and the carpenter may be better off making actual houses themselves, as his friends are advising him. Because everybody knows, building houses is where the real money is at when you're a carpenter. But because he works so well at his chairs, they're becoming famous all across the kingdom, so much that the local lord decides he wants to buy some of his chairs, but only if he makes them out of a special kind of wood fit for nobility. So a quest begins, etc. Carpenter didn't have to build houses just to make money. He stuck with what he liked to do.

That sort of thing. Learning to use whatever you want to use will bring forth different kinds of benefits, maybe even greater than just using what everybody says is best.

Included in this freedom involves being able to equip anything we want. I mean, just because I'm a healer doesn't mean I have to equip those old gnarled staffs. What if I want to be a healer that likes archery? Or a healer that uses two large swords? Even if I won't be as effective with such weapons as an actual archer or a warrior, at least let me wear them and make use of them. By allowing me to practice with the weapons, I might end up being really good with them, and developing my own style of using them.



As you can see, I've put a lot of thought into this stuff. I've been thinking about it and discussing it with my friends and my sister, also a MMOGer, for years. As it is now, there's no MMO that even comes close to half of what I'd like to see. I understand it's going to be impossible to achieve such standards, and may be impossible unless some game developers decide they should make a game that isn't about money. That's probably because I'm asking for a lot. I'm asking for an alternate universe where we can do anything we want, especially the things that we aren't allowed to or can never really do in real life, such as fight cave trolls, or mine in a volcano, or sing enchanting songs with a lute and grab the hearts of every woman in town. That kind of thing.

It's asking a lot, but... when you think about it, wasn't creating an alternate universe the original intention of RPGs anyway?

[Kloud_Seven]

You and I have pretty much the same vision for what we want to see in a MMO, it’s almost scary really. Balancing out an MMO of this magnitude would take years to execute successfully. People seem to think that WoW is what a true MMO is, when In reality, It’s only the tip of the Ice Berg of the endless possibilities of what a MMO can really be.

I have thought about this for a while, just as you have, and I go crazy trying to figure out how everything will balance, perhaps I’ll send you a PM and share some of my thoughts.



Edit-This is for the guy who posted above me. I thought he was the thread creator.

[Unknownymous]

Haha lol. Good, at least I'm not the only one who thinks there should be a game like that.

To me, the closest as any MMO has ever been to that was Ultima Online. It wasn't really close as it didn't have a lot of the features I'm looking for, but it was satisfactory. I would've continued playing if I weren't annoyed by some of the community.

I'm still hoping for such a game. I was thinking, if I ever became rich, I'd hire myself a bunch of dedicated professionals that also think the same way, and we'd work on this project. It may not be too popular among the general public, because obviously it's only appealing to true roleplayers, but at least it sounds like something that would draw out possibly every good roleplayer on the planet. And then we'd have a real roleplay community.

[Kloud_Seven]

Haha lol. Good, at least I'm not the only one who thinks there should be a game like that.

To me, the closest as any MMO has ever been to that was Ultima Online. It wasn't really close as it didn't have a lot of the features I'm looking for, but it was satisfactory. I would've continued playing if I weren't annoyed by some of the community.

I'm still hoping for such a game. I was thinking, if I ever became rich, I'd hire myself a bunch of dedicated professionals that also think the same way, and we'd work on this project. It may not be too popular among the general public, because obviously it's only appealing to true roleplayers, but at least it sounds like something that would draw out possibly every good roleplayer on the planet. And then we'd have a real roleplay community.

I pretty much said the same thing to my friend a few weeks ago, which was “If I get rich, I can make this happen”. I honestly think that it would appeal to many people, just due to the fact that the player can make a living from just about anything, if their skills are good enough. Any who, I have some really good ideas on paper, I have an awesome idea that is better than a horrible leveling system.

Hahaha, It’s top secret stuff.

[Orca]

Sure but how many people would want to be a begger on the street? This would also lead to over population of jobs? So making money would be hard. Whats to stop one player to sell his goods cheaper than another? Nothing would, as for having Kings and what not. How would you decide who gets to be a King? Then you'd have a problem if so and so wants to be the same thing. Then the basic thing you didnt want would happen. Competition leading to PvP and who wants to be the best.

I mean it really is a good idea no doubt, but I just think you shouldnt make a game feel like real life. Then what would be the point of playing it when you can go out and do it yourself? Of course you'd probably not get the job intended to get. As for getting rid of idiots. . . now that would be nearly impossible, because people will usually act that way when something comes up. Plus whats to stop racism? Will there be ADMINS? I understand wanting a full player created MMORPG, which is why you insisted on it be strict but you know theres still alot of kinks.

You have a pretty good idea here, i like what you were going on about the whips, they should have that in games in general not just MMORPGS, Oh and im not trying to put anything negative or anything. Just stating some minor problems and what not.

[Unknownymous]

Actually no. That's why the application system is in place. Only roleplayers would be allowed to play, that means that people won't always choose just the most lucretive of jobs. It's for people who want to live a different life than what they're living IRL. You'd be surprised about how many people actually roleplayed beggars well on UO. There were even guides to how to roleplay it best on various fansites and forums.

I dunno about you, but again, for roleplayers like me, the idea of playing RPGs is to be able to do something different from what you normally do in real life. Most people only translate this into being able to duel with other people, fight monsters etc. People like me and my roleplayer friends translate this into exploring wilderness or travelling from city to city singing a song for my dinner and maybe a swig of ale, or the like.

If you can't understand that, no offense, but this game isn't for you. Kloud_Seven obviously understands, and so will other true RPers. I am one, and have been for years even ever since D&D, and I have a circle of friends that are like me. Call me geeky if you want, but it's just the way we think.

After all, this isn't a thread for the perfect MMO period. It's a thread for what we personally think/what our opinion is on what the perfect MMO would be like. You're not obliged to agree if you don't want to.

[[BlackDeath]]

3. No idiots allowed. The bane of any MMORPG community is idiots. Even with the best gameplay, the best battle system, the best unique features, the best graphics, all of that goes to waste if your game is overrun with annoying people whose purpose in life seems to be to piss you off.

You can thank WoW for that. Sure most games had it's fare share of them but ever since WoW the quality of MMO players have dropped significantly. normal age group of MMO players were 20+ now due to WoW we get like 12+ players.

As for perfect MMO.

Most MMO's lack activities, a large scale war or event for the whole server on a more regular basis -say once a week- would be nice.

Better variety of quests not just 'kill this mob, kill this mob and collect drop, go here and there', they are all essentially the same and all repetitive so better variety would do nicely there and not to mention plentiful amount of quests to stop long grinding hours.

There also isn't much story, a bit more thought into that. Having an actual story back ground with a little more depth can make it more interesting. Say learning new things as your progress.

A nice variety of skills. I have played many MMO's and all lack a good variety of skills, sure they have lots of classes and jobs but only a handful of skills can be used and most of them are just more powerful versions of another skill. To add to that skill animation sequences.

Balance to classes, often you'll find that classes are always unbalanced in some ways.

[Unknownymous]

Yeah I heard that about WoW too. I never played because I didn't like the look of the graphics (not that it's ugly, but it's not my style), and the rumors about a bad community made me not want to play it either.

[Regex]

You can thank WoW for that. Sure most games had it's fare share of them but ever since WoW the quality of MMO players have dropped significantly. normal age group of MMO players were 20+ now due to WoW we get like 12+ players.

You know why that is?

Because Blizzard did an incredible job creating an MMO that people will like. You will not be able to avoid this. Everquest never had this bad of a community because it was a game that was not fun to play. If you create a game that is fun to play, lots of people will join, including a large number of people that are annoying.

As with anything in the world that has a large following, you have to learn to ignore the people you hate.

[-Batman-]

Personally, I don't feel WoW has a bad community.
I've played tons of MMO's, many of which had "Mature" 20+ members, but those MMO's were all short lived and dead within a year and a half tops. And due to the small amount of users, it was like these games were barren and desolate...Oh wait, they were.

I actually like the annoying little kids who talk about non-trade things in trade channal. I like the mess that is barren chat. I love those little level 1 characters in stormwind with names like "kejfjhef" selling gold.
It makes the community more interesting. It's also called Diversity.
If you walk into a Mall, is everyone going to be in your age group, fun to be around, and an enjoyable human being? Pfft, Hell no.
However, there is always the option to /ignore a player you don't like if they're really that unbearable.

[Capernicus]

lol Why don't we just get VR up and running and be done with it. Attach a catheter and IV drip to Unknownymous and let him die in that world.

[Cantelope]

A game where you get to choose your own profession? Hmmm. Does running a sword through a guy for his money count as a job?

[Unknownymous]

Absolutely heh. It's not a benevolent job but being a thief, bandit or even a murderer is still considered a job. The existence of such jobs causes the existence of their opposing jobs such as guards, bounty hunters, bodyguards, etc.

[B Gundam]

Hear hear, mind you share a rating of Sword of the New World and Perfect World?

Sword of the New World comes up with all those innovations such as NPC recruiting and Multiple Character Control, the stance system is also something to look up to (though there is barely such a thing as a character build since you can max all stances anyways and stats always stay same until you get *1* stat point at level 100), where other MMOs have you individualize the character you have to set up a team here, but it kinda takes the point out of having squads since you can include tank, nuker and healer in a single player. The skill animations are awesome but unfortunately far more spectacular than the actual effects, which seems to be mostly damage with differed delay. The Items are also quite variable.



Perfect World features full 3D combat, and they mean it that way (you can/have to fly or dive, which is also to take in consideration in PvP situations), but other than that seems pretty much like a staple MMORPG, though it does feature a better item system than most MMOs. Also, characters are highly individual here, you can shape every bit of facial detail (and I mean shape, not choose from default preset stuff).



I once liked RO because:

-The skills all made sense, they didn't just stack like "less damage for less SP" and "more damage for more SP" but all had notable strategic uses and drawbacks.
-Item depth. The variety of cards gave the items a good touch. It also had a fair set of uniques.

I'm currently looking for a new f2p MMORPG which has similiar item depth and skill system. Up to now Perfect World seems to be as good as it gets. Since I've been around in flyff and Rappelz and whatnot for stuff GPotato spewed out it has a sort of repetitive feel, but I'm still on the low end in levels there so I can't tell much about community and skill depth.

[Fenrisulfer]

After a week, i thought no one would reply. i'm happy to see there was discussion. I'd have to agree with most of Unknownymous' ideas. But where the complexity comes in is. suppose you are the carpenter who makes chairs, the only way someone can be truly a better chair maker is, if a system was put in where you can make 3D models of it and based on your skill lvl, would you actually be able to build it. Also creatures and monsters don't just stay in one place, they need to have life. Spawned creatures could have random programing saying,*go hunt people* *go hunt creatures* *become stationary below designated point*. And the actual fighting system, should one choose to fight, wouldn't be turn based or click on monster, click attack, watch fight. It would have to be something similar to the Elder Scrolls games. one where you have a button and you swing your weapon and use a spell in a direction. and you wouldnt have just swing, you would be able to different attacks depending on where you wanted to hit someone or something. on the notion of hitting something, all structures would be destructable, i mean if my rival in the game built a castle or a house and i cant get in through the front door, i should be able to break it down. or if your a theif, lockpick it, steal the goods and get out. that would be amazing fun.
of course our ideals for the perfect MMO is a dream drifting far from our reach.

[Unknownymous]

Unfortunately, we (as in me and my roleplayer friends) were also thinking of that, and it's very difficult to implement at least with the current technology. We were thinking that the only way for that to really become successful is if the game engine allowed the players to create new items on their own, like really putting chair parts together to form a chair in the way they want, and that may also include putching etchings or moldings or other details.

This idea also applies to pure fighters and stuff. The ability to design their own specialty attacks and skills, etc. Like for example, a character that really specialized in thrusting sword attacks can, if he's mastered it to such an extent, design a thrusting attack to his liking (for example, a lunging thrust attack that penetrates multiple enemies). Or an assassin that focused on "blink" (as in short-range instant teleportation). With mastery, the player can design a new way the blink works, such as disappearing then appearing with a delay, or even appearing to be at both the origin and the destination at the same time. Stuff like that.

mind you sharing a rating of Sword of the New World and Perfect World?

I played both games and I'll give you a short review on what I thought of them. Not to high jack the topic, but to give a comparison as to what I didn't like about them. I'll put them in spoiler tags so people don't have to read them if they're not interested.

 

Granado Espada, or as you Westerners seem to have called it, Sword of the New World, was an awesome game. Some of my friends didn't like it, but I personally enjoyed it. It's one of those games, however, where you had nothing to do except do quests and kill monsters, but still I found it rather fun. I guess that's because I was partially not thinking of it as a role-playing game, but more like a strategy game. I like setting up an area with my formations and watching enemies die. I thought that was enjoyable. And the character designs were beautiful, though the customization options were limited (especially since you had to buy the costumes, hairstyles, etc, with real money).

All in all, from a MMO standpoint, I thought it was a good game. I play(ed) in Granado Espada Japan, but it's kinda lonely since none of my friends play there. And everybody's high level so you really will feel lonely at low levels. Barely anybody in any dungeons, which was a good thing, except that it meant there was nobody to buy low level equipment from or sell them to.

But from an RPG standpoint, it's not that good. As my friend put it, it's hard to get in character when you have three (or more) characters.

Perfect World I didn't like at all. Another one of those games where there's nothing to do but fight, and it didn't do that too well either. I mean, it's not bad, but it's not special. At least Granado Espada had a fun Multi-Character Combat system. Having a crafting system is standard in all MMOs, so I won't comment on that. The only thing that PW had going was the elaborate character creation system, which really allowed you, with some skill and patience, to make your character look exactly the way you want.

Otherwise, it's just another kill-many-monsters-to-become-the-most-powerful-PVPer game. Not much incentive there. I don't want to sit in front of the PC for 16 hours killing the same one or two monsters over and over just to get 5% exp.

Quite frankly, not to sound so negative, but I've been on the search you're currently on for years. I've tried almost every free MMORPG, from the high-profile ones like PW and GE, to the lesser known ones like Fung-Wan Online and Zero3000, etc. That being said, there is none that fits my ideals of being a good game that I'd like to stick around in. I'm not even talking about "perfect" like I described a few posts above. Even just a game that gets me going with basic elements like fun combat system, non-linear gameplay, and other things to do like mini-games or fishing, and a decent community, is enough to get me to play for a long time.

[Regex]

Quite frankly, not to sound so negative, but I've been on the search you're currently on for years. I've tried almost every free MMORPG, from the high-profile ones like PW and GE, to the lesser known ones like Fung-Wan Online and Zero3000, etc. That being said, there is none that fits my ideals of being a good game that I'd like to stick around in. I'm not even talking about "perfect" like I described a few posts above. Even just a game that gets me going with basic elements like fun combat system, non-linear gameplay, and other things to do like mini-games or fishing, and a decent community, is enough to get me to play for a long time.

Like I keep saying.. You really get what you pay for.

[Unknownymous]

True. That's why I'm saving up for LotR:Online heheh. It's not perfect but it looks like a lot of fun, with lots of interesting features and stuff (with a lot of them having RPers in mind). My friends are also saving up, and we'll probably have a blast when we finally get to play.

Although, now that I have a lot of hobbies outside of the PC realm + a job, I'm wondering if I'll actually have time to play. o_O

[Grod]

well most MMOS are usually rpg, unless you can name an MMO FPS which im not sure there is any. none come to mind.

Um... really? Ever heard of Halo?

[Innovative]

Planetside is an MMOFPS.

The perfect MMO is Diablo II: LoD.

[Sanosuke23]

Gunz is an MMO 3PS.

I would like a full, faithful to the sourcebooks D&D MMORPG with at least everything in the core books accessible in some way, shape or form. Templates can be earned by quest chains(you unlock them for a new character you create). For instance, you do a long chain involving a dragon's lair protecting their human loved one, and at the end you can make Half-Dragon characters.

Oh, and if I want to be an NPC class then damnit, let me be it! Expert, at least!

[Golden State Warrior]

Me, personally, the thing people underestimate the most is the ability to solo. Some people love playing MMOs, but no one wants to waste time looking for a party. One thing to note is even though soloing should be a viable option, encouraging to group is a must! A way to encourage grouping would be to reward people who group up. A hefty bonus in experience points or a better chance for rare items to drop would be an example.

Party Leader: Hey, wanna group up? We're just all farming for EXP here.
Soloer: Nah, I gotta log soon.
Party Leader: Oh, no worries. While you in a group, you get three times more experience. We're just killing mobs, so you can leave whenever you feel like it.

Soloer: Sounds good! Sign me up!

Something like that.

[Ball Tripper]

Two words to describe the perfect mmo.

FORGOTTEN REALMS

I can't believe the dnd mmorpg was set in ebberon. What were they thinking...