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Thread: Prayer in Schools.

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    Default Prayer in Schools.

    I know that this is a very fragile topic, but my own curious nature made me do it.

    Recently in my local school, we had a teacher that told a stupid to stop praying during the moment of silence that we have every morning. This, of course, sparked a huge controversy in the community. Most of the opinions that I heard were that we are protected in our rights for the freedom of worship.

    After reading up a little bit, I did find something interesting. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". It also says that all men are created equal, but it took almost 90 years for that to be applied to blacks. Just because the First Amendment wasn't adhered to doesn't mean it's not the law of the land or right.

    One last thing I found a bit interesting. This is a verse from the bible.

    Matthew 6:5-8
    5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
    6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
    7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
    8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

    So, should schools allow prayer?
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    yep i believe school should allow prayers
    every prays in some part of their life..right?

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    Schools should allow prayer, but it should not be part of education as such. If someone goes off and prays at the restroom or in the cafeteria is none of the school's business, but having a prayer hour from 8:15 to 8:30 where all students must pray is equally stupid. Also note that this includes minority religions, such as occultism and Satan worship.
    Last edited by Eris; 07-07-2007 at 04:15 PM.
    D:

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    i agree, it's not good for someone to pray in the middle of the classroom while teaching...ffs you can do it afterschool

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    Quote Originally Posted by Click here View Post
    i agree, it's not good for someone to pray in the middle of the classroom while teaching...ffs you can do it afterschool
    As long as they don't do it aloud, what's the harm? It's their grades that get hurt, and subsequently their own problem.
    D:

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    Not some schools should allow prayer, ALL schools should. Without prayer, there could be some bad things happening, and everyone is going to be in a mad mood. It is just a good thing to pray, so you could have a nice day.

    OFF TOPIC: I pray everyday and night and I can even imagine how it feels like to never pray, then your day would not be so great.

    Anyway all schools should have prayer and that's my opinion. To me I think it is not a good thing if you don't pray.
    Last edited by AngelQueen17; 07-07-2007 at 04:32 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelQueen17 View Post
    Not some schools should allow prayer, ALL schools should. Without prayer, there could be some bad things happening, and everyone is going to be in a mad mood. It is just a good thing to pray, so you could have a nice day.

    OFF TOPIC: I pray everyday and night and I an even imagine how it feels like to never pray, then your day would not be so great.

    Anyway all schools should have prayer and that's my opinion. To me I think it is not a good thing if you don't pray.
    I've never prayed in my life, but that doesn't mean that I have a veil of bad karma.

    Sorry, off-topic. But I did find something interesting, which somewhat proves her point.

    Since the court outlawed prayer, the nation has been in steady moral decline. Former Secretary of Education William Bennett revealed in his cultural indexes that between 1960 and 1990 there was a steady moral decline. During this period divorce double, teenage pregnancy went up 200%, teen suicide increased 300%, child abuse reached an all-time high, violent crime went up 500% and abortion increased 1000%. There is a strong correlation between the expulsion of prayer from our schools and the decline in morality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelQueen17 View Post
    Not some schools should allow prayer, ALL schools should. Without prayer, there could be some bad things happening, and everyone is going to be in a mad mood. It is just a good thing to pray, so you could have a nice day.

    OFF TOPIC: I pray everyday and night and I an even imagine how it feels like to never pray, then your day would not be so great.

    Anyway all schools should have prayer and that's my opinion. To me I think it is not a good thing if you don't pray.
    Bad things happen irregardless of you praying or not. For reference, I've never prayed in my life, and never really had any downs in my life. Nice grades, good education, know a lot of people, my parents are still alive, never had a pet die on me, etc.

    Even if I would believe in prayer, I think it it would be stupid to do it too often. I mean, if you pester god about every thing that runs through your mind, he's not going to pay attention to it. It's like spamming him with a thousand emails every day. Isn't it better to save it for when you really need it, then he might actually read the email and do something about it...




    Rep: "I was just sharing my opinion and the fact that you don't pray everyday is your just not religious.- AngelQueen17"
    Answer: Uh,.. and I was just sharing my opinion...
    Last edited by Eris; 07-07-2007 at 05:01 PM.
    D:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Schools should allow prayer, but it should not be part of education as such. If someone goes off and prays at the restroom or in the cafeteria is none of the school's business, but having a prayer hour from 8:15 to 8:30 where all students must pray is equally stupid. Also note that this includes minority religions, such as occultism and Satan worship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    As long as they don't do it aloud, what's the harm? It's their grades that get hurt, and subsequently their own problem.
    You took the wrods right out of my mouth. As long as the student silently prays to themselves, there should be no harm in it. I think it would even be ok to change "a moment of silent meditation" to "a moment of silent prayer". Reguardless of your religion, you pray to someone...
    unless your atheist >_>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    As long as they don't do it aloud, what's the harm? It's their grades that get hurt, and subsequently their own problem.
    yeah but sometimes not doing it loud means, closing your eyes and humming while teaching

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiro Matsuchani View Post

    After reading up a little bit, I did find something interesting. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". It also says that all men are created equal, but it took almost 90 years for that to be applied to blacks. Just because the First Amendment wasn't adhered to doesn't mean it's not the law of the land or right.

    The US is supposed to "not hinder, or help" any religious community, and if it helps one religion, it must help all, (all of this was supposed to help with the amendment of religion). However we all know how far that goes. Also, when they said "All men were created equal" they didn't even mean just white people, they meant rich, white property owners, and us women were SOL for a loong time even after the blacks were freed. There is an amendment that the supreme court added during the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCulloch_v._Maryland case, in which the Supreme Court actually gave most of the power to the Federal Government overturning the original state's rights act, by implementing the necessary and proper clause. Basically they can do whatever they friggin want as long as they can deem it "necessary and proper" including banning prayer in public schools, or whatever (I know they haven't, it was just an example)

    as far as my opinion? I agree with Eris. Allowing, but not forcing or throwing it into education, unless of course you're going to a religious school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Schools should allow prayer, but it should not be part of education as such. If someone goes off and prays at the restroom or in the cafeteria is none of the school's business, but having a prayer hour from 8:15 to 8:30 where all students must pray is equally stupid. Also note that this includes minority religions, such as occultism and Satan worship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eris
    Bad things happen irregardless of you praying or not. For reference, I've never prayed in my life, and never really had any downs in my life. Nice grades, good education, know a lot of people, my parents are still alive, never had a pet die on me, etc.

    Even if I would believe in prayer, I think it it would be stupid to do it too often. I mean, if you pester god about every thing that runs through your mind, he's not going to pay attention to it. It's like spamming him with a thousand emails every day. Isn't it better to save it for when you really need it, then he might actually read the email and do something about it...
    Quote Originally Posted by unspun
    Allowing, but not forcing or throwing it into education, unless of course you're going to a religious school.
    Agreed. I'd rep you for it but I've already given you reputation recently.
    Last edited by Exquiro; 07-07-2007 at 04:55 PM.
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    lol you're closing your eyes, and humming while a teacher is teaching, that's distraction and everyone will turn to look at you, i don't see the point in praying in a class room.. when you have the time to do it at home,or in the bathroom...

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    Quote Originally Posted by unspun View Post
    as far as my opinion? I agree with Eris. Allowing, but not forcing or throwing it into education, unless of course you're going to a religious school.
    I personally think religious schools violate the rights of the students. Parents should not be able to use these schools as a tool to enforce a religion onto their children. Their freedom from religion weighs heavier than the parents' right to choose education.
    D:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    I personally think religious schools violate the rights of the students. Parents should not be able to use these schools as a tool to enforce a religion onto their children. Their freedom from religion weighs heavier than the parents' right to choose education.
    Personally I'd never put my kid in a religious school for the same reason. I was just saying that it's obvious : religious school = prayer of some sort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unspun View Post
    Personally I'd never put my kid in a religious school for the same reason. I was just saying that it's obvious : religious school = prayer of some sort.
    That would depend on the religion. Far from all religions believe in the power of prayer. That's mainly an Abrahamic idea (X-tianity, Judaism, Islam, and sects thereof.)
    D:

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    some schools should like cathlic, i mean that's one of the reasons u go to cathlic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    That would depend on the religion. Far from all religions believe in the power of prayer. That's mainly an Abrahamic idea (X-tianity, Judaism, Islam, and sects thereof.)
    Shows you how much I pay attention to organized religion

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    When it deals with religiously biased schools, I wouldn't go so far to say that the idea of a god and his/her teachings are being forced upon people. I -will- abide that sticking morally defunct people into such a school for the sole purpose of reformation is not very ethical. But saying that children -- and by children, I mean young people who haven't yet gained a sense of individualism and maturity like some of us teens and adults -- saying they're having religion forced upon them sounds like an "undercooked" accusation.

    As far as children go, I think it's best for the parents to help guide them in any way that they deem necessary for them to carry on in the world as an adult. If the parents think religion is the way to go, I wouldn't object to such a notion. If they prefer public schools, more power to them.

    Should the parents for faulted for a choice that: a) had the best intentions for the child AND b) is one out of many paths for upbringing that is expected to produce young men and women of sound mentality and personality?

    I've got no qualms with what anyone wants to do with their kids, or what they would do if they had any. Parents are expected to do what they think is best for their children, and slacken the rope as they grow older.

    Ah, as for prayer. I see nothing wrong with it as long as it isn't disruptive to the rest of the class. As far as disruption to oneself, as Eris mentioned, that's as much a penalty as one exerts on him/herself.


    As far as the decline in morality is concerned, I wouldn't cite the banning of prayer as the leading cause, much less a substantial cause of social suffering here in the US. I think humanity has just naturally gotten worse with the rise of technology as well as the desensitization of ethical standards throughout all facets of living. Media, dating methods... you name it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Click here View Post
    lol you're closing your eyes, and humming while a teacher is teaching, that's distraction and everyone will turn to look at you, i don't see the point in praying in a class room.. when you have the time to do it at home,or in the bathroom...
    You don't have to be making a noise when you're praying. You can simply be praying to yourself, in your head. That would be just as good as verbally praying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiro Matsuchani View Post
    You don't have to be making a noise when you're praying. You can simply be praying to yourself, in your head. That would be just as good as verbally praying.
    not only that, but it wasn't in the middle of class, it was "During the moment of silence we have every morning"

    click here, I really think you should put more thoughts into your posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unspun View Post
    not only that, but it wasn't in the middle of class, it was "During the moment of silence we have every morning"

    click here, I really think you should put more thoughts into your posts.

    yeah i think so, my head is little mixed up.. but it's not all the time that people pray in the moment of silence, sometimes they do it to annoy people

    i really don't think that it should be allowed, you're in a classroom to learn not to pray.. but the moment of silence thing.. i guess you can do that

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    I'm not religious, but I don't think it should be allowed, but not forced.

    The moment of silence was kind of annoying at my school. I live in a mainly Christian city, and during that moment I never even saw anybody pray... all they did was talk. That's really unrelated though, I guess.

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    I admit i have studied in a Christian school, and we pray a lot. But they don't force students to pray.
    Hmm.. I don't think there is anything wrong in praying in a moment of silence. But you don't need to do it so often. [Since more prayer doesn't mean full and complete safeness, but prayer does help you sometimes. ]

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    But how do the teachers or whatever knows the student is praying, because when at moment of silence, everyone just stand up put their right hand on their chest, some close their eyes and some don't...

    how does a teacher know that you're praying, if you simply just closed your eyes?

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