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Thread: Problems with existence.

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Problems with existence.

    For a while I've been having issues with this whole "existence" thing. When I think about the Universe and its begining I'm a bit stumped. Now I don't know all the physics involved, but I understand quite a bit. Also, it's not the events of the Big Bang that get me.. I can at least comprehend that, it's the messy bit about where did it all come from? No matter what you believe at some point in some time-like framework, something had to come from nothing. If you discount the presense of a Supreme Being, be it God, or gods or even a Flying Spaghetti Monster, there had to be a point in "time" that first chunk of matter appeared. Even if that chunk of matter came from another Universe, or a previous incarnation of this one it had to come from somewhere. If there is a "God" involved, where did this deity originally come from (and none of that "He was always there" stuff)? If "God" was always there, what did he do with the infinate span of previous time before he decided to create the Universe? As of right now I'm trying to decide if I believe the Universe exists at all.. In my mind it shouldn't be possible. The only thing I can sort of work out is a paradox theory, where an event in the future was responsible for the creation of the Universe (This was the basis for my poem Infinity Man in the poetry secion). What is making me write about this now is I just read that scientists now think they can look at the Universe before the Big Bang, and that the BB was not what created the Universe, but more a change from what the Universe was into what it is now. If space-time was really messed up who knows what could have happened, but that sill leaves me with the question of where did the forerunner of the Universe come from? Nothing? Maybe.. Am I the only one who thinks about this stuff?

  2. #2
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    I was looking at this book by Einstein (It was really just a compilation of many of his writings). In it he said that it is ridiculous to pursue knowledge simply to pursue it. In other words, you should only pursue knowledge that will actually be for the betterment of mankind. This is one of the few opinions that Einstein had which I agree with. I think the question 'How did it all begin' is one of the questions.

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    I think we can only know when we die. However, we wouldnt be able to tell anyone because we are dead.
    .:Rest in peace Legend_S:.
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    I think about that at times myself, in fact I have my own theory about the universe and like how the BB starts.

    If you look at Black Holes (The knowledge we have about them, theoretical mostly) you'll see that they take in matter, and with the immense gravity destroy it through it's 'spegettification' process. This is all sent to a singularity, a single point withing where all the matter is concentrated.

    Well, if you go by that theory that space is curved..

    Scratch that, look at it this way. If space was like a large horizontal graph paper floating suspended in reality, and the things that existed were bulges in it's fabrics, then a black hole would be the tear in the paper. Now since we are talking about a sheet the size of the universe, there would be many holes from the many black holes that would be out there. Down below the surface though, could be one common singularity between all the Black holes, and all the matter that the holes pulls in and crushes would come together in that place.

    Well since stars must die in order to make black holes, you can see there are many of them on there way in the future. The point I'm getting at is that once every star that possibly could be formed into a black hole does, then wouldn't that suck up most if not all the matter and energy in the universe and send it to it's 'super singularity'? From that we could see where the small ball of mass that started the big bang came from.

    Overall, what I'm telling you is; "What if the universe was recycled by that whole process?" ~ Each time the stars all blow up or burn out, that small ball waits for a reaction and starts the process over again.

    How's that for food for thought?


    Perhaps the world was never meant to make perfect sense.


  5. #5
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    o.0 I don't believe in the non-provable existance called God. Sorry to all those who do believe. This is my opinion and statement. Likewise..I do believe in Evolution. <_<..Or..however it's spelled. I dunno why we do exist either, nor do I care in any way or form.
    Where there is light, shadows lurk and fear reigns... yet by the blade of Knights, mankind was given hope...


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsanosuke View Post
    I think about that at times myself, in fact I have my own theory about the universe and like how the BB starts.

    If you look at Black Holes (The knowledge we have about them, theoretical mostly) you'll see that they take in matter, and with the immense gravity destroy it through it's 'spegettification' process. This is all sent to a singularity, a single point withing where all the matter is concentrated.

    Well, if you go by that theory that space is curved..

    Scratch that, look at it this way. If space was like a large horizontal graph paper floating suspended in reality, and the things that existed were bulges in it's fabrics, then a black hole would be the tear in the paper. Now since we are talking about a sheet the size of the universe, there would be many holes from the many black holes that would be out there. Down below the surface though, could be one common singularity between all the Black holes, and all the matter that the holes pulls in and crushes would come together in that place.

    Well since stars must die in order to make black holes, you can see there are many of them on there way in the future. The point I'm getting at is that once every star that possibly could be formed into a black hole does, then wouldn't that suck up most if not all the matter and energy in the universe and send it to it's 'super singularity'? From that we could see where the small ball of mass that started the big bang came from.

    Overall, what I'm telling you is; "What if the universe was recycled by that whole process?" ~ Each time the stars all blow up or burn out, that small ball waits for a reaction and starts the process over again.

    How's that for food for thought?
    I don't want to be rude, but that doesn't explain how any matter came to exist in the first place.

  7. #7
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    You are asking a very good question, unfortunately no one can ever give you the answer to this; for the very reason that it has never been answered. No scientist or religious person has ever proven how the universe came about. All in all they are just theories.

    Being a religious man, I believe God always existed; You ask where did he come from? I don't believe existing existed before God, nothing could come from anything before God. I know it's a dead end subject that no side will ever win so I won't get into a debate about it.

    If God is the answer to your question then the only way you will ever get answers is if you search him out and ask him to show you. And if he isn't the answer? Then you will have to settle with theories until one is proven correctly, if that ever happens...
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoujo_Junky_Z View Post
    For a while I've been having issues with this whole "existence" thing. When I think about the Universe and its begining I'm a bit stumped. Now I don't know all the physics involved, but I understand quite a bit. Also, it's not the events of the Big Bang that get me.. I can at least comprehend that, it's the messy bit about where did it all come from? No matter what you believe at some point in some time-like framework, something had to come from nothing. If you discount the presense of a Supreme Being, be it God, or gods or even a Flying Spaghetti Monster, there had to be a point in "time" that first chunk of matter appeared. Even if that chunk of matter came from another Universe, or a previous incarnation of this one it had to come from somewhere. If there is a "God" involved, where did this deity originally come from (and none of that "He was always there" stuff)? If "God" was always there, what did he do with the infinate span of previous time before he decided to create the Universe? As of right now I'm trying to decide if I believe the Universe exists at all.. In my mind it shouldn't be possible. The only thing I can sort of work out is a paradox theory, where an event in the future was responsible for the creation of the Universe (This was the basis for my poem Infinity Man in the poetry secion). What is making me write about this now is I just read that scientists now think they can look at the Universe before the Big Bang, and that the BB was not what created the Universe, but more a change from what the Universe was into what it is now. If space-time was really messed up who knows what could have happened, but that sill leaves me with the question of where did the forerunner of the Universe come from? Nothing? Maybe.. Am I the only one who thinks about this stuff?
    Seriously dude, do some paragraphing and I will read your post. I have no interest in spending 20 minutes trying to decipher your humongous monolithic blob of words.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Seriously dude, do some paragraphing and I will read your post. I have no interest in spending 20 minutes trying to decipher your humongous monolithic blob of words.
    Next time I write something specifically for you to read, I'll be sure to format it in a manner appealing to his majesty.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoujo_Junky_Z View Post
    Next time I write something specifically for you to read, I'll be sure to format it in a manner appealing to his majesty.
    This is proper etiquette for any form of written text, not just something I've made up. If you can't bother following that, then I, along with a lot of other people won't bother reading it.

    The point of any serious philosophical text is to make it easy to get the point, not to obfuscate it through poor formatting.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoujo_Junky_Z View Post
    Next time I write something specifically for you to read, I'll be sure to format it in a manner appealing to his majesty.
    to be honest I didn't even read your post for the same reason. Too damn lazy.


    ps.
    Eris is a girl.

    Get crazy with the cheezwiz

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    Actually, most of the theories are written in perfect examples, or with infinity as one of the variables. That leaves room for a lot of values to be calculated that do not equal to infinity (duh). So I think that the whole of the Big Bang theory could be up for contradiction.

    Whether it actually is or not though, I have no idea. I don't really include those theories when evaluating my impression of the universe because we will all be dead by the time that people have enough information to understand it.
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    Well I feel sheepish, I never knew Eris was female &#172;_&#172;

    On topic; that's real interesting stuff. I like your theory, I've never considered the possibility of a paradox before *falls into deep thought*
    "Done because we are too meny."

  14. #14
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    Okay, so I took my time to read your post, and here's my response:

    Now I don't know all the physics involved, but I understand quite a bit. Also, it's not the events of the Big Bang that get me.. I can at least comprehend that, it's the messy bit about where did it all come from?
    If you want to learn more about these sorts of physics, and I suggest you do, there is a relatively easy-to-read book aimed at non-academic audiences called "The Elegant Universe", by Brian Greene. I recommend it to all people who want a greater understanding of the current state of physics without all the mathematics and formulas and principles physicists have to cram in their head.

    Even if that chunk of matter came from another Universe, or a previous incarnation of this one it had to come from somewhere.
    Not necessarily, time could be like a moebius strip: With no ending. This is beyond physics, and into the realm of philosophy, so that guess is as good as any.

    As of right now I'm trying to decide if I believe the Universe exists at all..
    Does it matter? Even if you're just an illusion or a character in a video game, you might as well enjoy it while it lasts.

    You can think like that, or accept Ren&#233; Descartes' "cogito ergo sum" line of argument.

    What is making me write about this now is I just read that scientists now think they can look at the Universe before the Big Bang, and that the BB was not what created the Universe, but more a change from what the Universe was into what it is now.
    Strangely sounds like it supports the the bouncy universe hypothesis: That the universe inflates and contracts and inflates and contracts, etc.

    If space-time was really messed up who knows what could have happened, but that sill leaves me with the question of where did the forerunner of the Universe come from? Nothing? Maybe.. Am I the only one who thinks about this stuff?
    As I said, maybe the forerunner is this universe. It's really hard to make limits on the geometry of space-time, so it's completely possible.
    Last edited by Eris; 07-02-2007 at 11:54 AM.

  15. #15
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    I would like to say that I worry about the exsistence of all life and what not, but, I only care about the fact that I do exsist.



  16. #16
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    To answer this question is to dwell into knowledge and information of an infinite extent. So, before asking these questions of astronomical proportions, why don't you ask yourself "Hey, I wonder if I should learn a little bit of grammar so people don't think my writing is incompetent and muddled together words?"

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    Too many variables. I cann't completely preach to you about Creationism because it has it's fare share of plot holes. I cann't completely preach to you about Evolution that too has a lot of plot holes. I'm on the stance of both.

    God created everything (hazzah!) but alloed Evolution. When he made man in his own image, he made us in his own image on the mental level. That's what I think atleast.
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    I agree with Chris. It's unrealistic to think that God instantly created a person from dust. So I believe God CONTROLS evolution and the development of the universe.

    It's possible that everything started out as energy when you consider what is inside the nucleus of an atom. That energy came together and a reaction occured creating the Big Bang. The resultant effect of the BB could be a physical phenomenon like a black hole: something that occurs when physical limits are stretched.

    It's probable that the amount of energy currently existing in the universe is even larger than before the BB and that if all that energy comes back together it could result in a much larger reaction meaning those physical barriers and the newly created physical limits may be stretched once again, and possibly creating another type of physical existance other than gas, liquid and solid which were added to the existance of energy after the BB.

    However there is no way whatsoever to back up my ramblings and I made most of this up as I went along lol. I could say it's a possibility but as far as the topic of "The beginninng of the universe" is concerned there are millions of possibilities......and this post probably doesn't help answer your question AT ALL.


  19. #19
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    It almost feels like a crime to post something short after all these long posts.

    My thoughts are that this is a waste of time to think about. It doesn't matter why you exist, but the fact that you do exist. There is no real answer to this question, and only a burden to think about.
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  20. #20
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    We will find out eventually and will be the least expected....

    YAY... It appear that BOREDOM strikes quite often!!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoujo_Junky_Z View Post
    If there is a "God" involved, where did this deity originally come from (and none of that "He was always there" stuff)? If "God" was always there, what did he do with the infinate span of previous time before he decided to create the Universe?

    Am I the only one who thinks about this stuff?
    ok i'm not even going to attempt to tackle everything...

    1. Who's to say there was an infinite span of previous time before the universe was created?...Also, maybe God was just planning heheh

    2. No i'm pretty sure there are ppl out there who get paid to think about this stuff.
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  22. #22
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    i don't think we are honestly meant to find out.

    i mean, look at it this way: if we were to find out everything that has peoples' minds ticking, everything that sends us into deep thought, then what?

    what is the ultimate point in finding the answer?

    i think that having these unknowns are a part of existence. that, if there wasn't anything people did not know, then what would the true purpose be?

    and besides, what would you do with this knowledge?
    would it bring you to an ease, knowing that there isn't anything left to rack your brains wondering?
    심혼의 개기식.
    and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars a.p.a.r.t.:






  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sword View Post
    I agree with Chris. It's unrealistic to think that God instantly created a person from dust..
    Your posts get funnier and funnier.

    Firstly; how is it unrealistic to think that God instantly created a person from dust? He is God after all...
    Secondly; I read in another one of your posts that you say you are Catholic, it appears you haven't any clue what the Catholic belief system is.
    Last edited by ███; 07-22-2007 at 01:34 AM.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasphemous Feind View Post
    Your posts get funnier and funnier.

    Firstly; how is it unrealistic to think that God instantly created a person from dust? He is God after all...
    Secondly; I read in another one of your posts that you say you are Catholic, it appears you haven't any clue what the Catholic belief system is.
    Jesus. You're a critical b****** aren't you.

    1. One word: Evolution. Its possible for God to create us from dust but thats just not what happened. If you make a car for example you have an original model but you tweak it and add new things to it over time. That is what I think God has done with us from when we were single celled organisms and is what we call "evolution".

    2. Such aspects of the "Catholic belief system" are never explained properly. I just believe in Heaven and Hell. And since religion doesn't explain the meaning of life, you come up with your own theories. Anyway the concept of damned souls seeking forgiveness is an old one.


  25. #25
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    Eris, I would have to agree with you. I do believe that the universe was not maid, but was always there. It's like drawing a line on paper. If you put an arrow on both sides, that means the line never had a firm beginning, and that it will never end. That's the only think I can see that would work. After all, matter can not be created or destroyed.
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