Prejudice/Racism/Fear -- is the fire beyond our control?

[Lucidian Dyne]

I prefer to tackle this issue from the perspective of child-rearing policies.

Racism and prejudice are growing issues in the world today, but it isn't something you usually hear about. A lot of the racism isn't mentioned verbally in the presence of those to whom the offense is directed; more or less, people will remain civil for the sake of peace during interaction, and then go home and talk about much they despise said individuals. Around here (Missouri, USA), lots of Mexicans are regarded as illegal immigrants regardless of legality, likely because the phrase "illegal immigrant" has acquired a derisive meaning here in the States in the past couple of years. It's really just the basis of racism that causes such categorization: the "unwanteds" are undesirable, thus it is easier to call any Mexican an illegal alien. Or any foreigner, for that matter.

I don't want to discuss how wrong this categorization is: we all know it's wrong. I just wanna turn your heads in the right direction for proper debate.

This subject is closer to the matter at hand: mutual stereotyping from individual ethnicities. Blacks are generally considered by whites as lawbreaking, gun-toting, easily offended individuals. On the flip-side, whites are cocky, self-centered, vainly righteous people. Whether these mannerisms are taught to us, or we come into knowledge of these stereotype ourselves, the basis of our thoughts ride on ignorance and fear.

Getting the picture now? Good.

I'll take it as a given that most of us are tolerant people and have no room in their hearts for racism, so that's not something I care to know about. My question is:Is it futile (worthless) to teach our children the golden rule of "treat others the way you want to be treated" when the presence of fear and racism is unlikely to disappear?

If you live in a geographical location that has a minimized impact of racism, give your own answer PLUS a second answer for any location in which racism is thick. I only ask for the second answer because I expect most of us are prone to repeating what they feel in their own hearts as opposed to the hearts of others.

[Rem]

Nice topic, I think it's a worthwhile endeavor to teach out children kindness and tolerence of all races and creeds. Sure you will always have self righteous pricks who think their is a master race. But that doesn't mean we should lay down and let that kind of thinking fester and grow.

[Wio]

I think the best way to eliminate racism is to put differences aside, which is better said frankly: to ignore race.

Fortunantly, race isn't significant. Black men and white men are similar to the point that there is no reason to establish a difference between them.

If you give any race(s) special treatment, then you will end up with inequality. This is why segregation failed-- it drew a line and said "Here are the Blacks and here are the Whites."


As far as Illegal Immigration goes, it's annoying. We have immigration laws for a reason. No one should support illegal immigration. They should support taking away immigration laws and making citizenship an easier process, but they should never support illegal immigration.
I will admit that there are some people who injustly call mexicans 'Illegal Immigrants'. In some places, however, people are so fed up with illegal immigration and it leads them to hate.
Teaching tolerance won't solve such behaviour, the only solution is immigration reform.

---I just want to put in one last side note. One thing that people should NEVER be taught is 'loyalty to their race'. When this type of ideology is circulated, races tend to form big groups which don't get along.

[Tempest Wind]

Its like what my old Sig said: People cling to power and numbers out of fear of being hurt, chastising that which is good as if it were evil, and persecuting those who do not follow the masses. Telling themselves they cannot grow strong, they hide withing their own shells of denial.

However, I am not saying that it is pointless to teach children not to be rasicts. All I am saying is that I am not sure if racial discrimination will ever dissappear. We will have to hope the children make the better choice, and choose not to be racist.

[Chris-san]

Most racism I see is baseless, stereotypical hate from rednecks who were raised with their parents badmouthing every race that wasn't pure-bred American, which is ironic since America is the melting pot of all races in the world and always has been. The funny thing is, the parents of these people grew up with the same racism, and so on since days of the civil war. Honestly, there's no way everyone in the world can just get along, but it would be nice if that were possible.

[Wio]

Most racism I see is baseless, stereotypical hate from rednecks who were raised with their parents badmouthing every race that wasn't pure-bred American, which is ironic since America is the melting pot of all races in the world and always has been.

I disagree with you twice there.
First I find it ironic you use a derogatory stereotypical term to point the "stereotypical hate" finger. The truth is that there is plenty of racism that is NOT the result of 'red-necks', but rather people of all races.

Secondly, the irony is that american indians were the first americans.

[Ollie]

I disagree with you twice there.
First I find it ironic you use a derogatory stereotypical term to point the "stereotypical hate" finger. The truth is that there is plenty of racism that is NOT the result of 'red-necks', but rather people of all races.

Secondly, the irony is that american indians were the first americans.

It's also ironic because racism isn't always the horrible white power "LET'S GANG UP ON BLACK PEOPLE AND KILL THEM"

I've seen and heard a lot of racism, but none of it was that extreme. Just like "oh he thinks that way because he's Mexican!" or whatever. Racism for categorizing someone according to their race/culture.

[氷の動物]

Hmmm after a bit of thought I think that ultimately teaching children about the type of stuff that you are specifically addressing will never work... the problem is that it is very easy to combat racism to equalize races such as how America has greatly improved the racism that existed towards African Americans but it is impossible to stop stereotyping as it is something that the human brain does instinctively.

I can tell you that I certainly wouldn't consider myself racist, but I still stereotype plenty of different types of people by all kinds of different criteria (not just race, such as certain traits suggest sexual orientation, intelligence, etc.)... many of which were not the direct result of being taught them, but probably the result of media and self experience. That being said I don't really see a massive problem with stereotyping as it is really a mechanism for anticipating what a person will be like even before you interact with them, sure it might not be right and you may change and evolve your stereotypes over time but almost everybody does it, and I see no way of teaching people not to.

As a similar example most children are taught not to talk about other people behind their backs, and yet I doubt there is anyone who hasn't made some comment about somebody while they weren't in the room. I guess teaching children about it could ultimately reduce the amount it happens to a degree, but the fact is it seems to be something that humans tend to do instinctively so you really can't change it.

Basically I think overall that using the government to combat racism and backing it by teaching your children to be tolerant towards others is more effective then trying to teach them that stereotyping others is wrong.

[Eris]

I think it is undemocratic to attempt to smother an idea like this. Racism is as valid as any other stupid idea people have.

[Petrol Gas]

I think it is undemocratic to attempt to smother an idea like this. Racism is as valid as any other stupid idea people have.

Eris is completely right here. People should be allowed to think what they want to think. Also I would like to point out (from my own experience) that the only thing separating one type of Ideas from another is the amount of money behind them. Not to call whites more rich or blacks more rich, but the ideas have nothing to do with how someone is raised as much as they have to do with home much money the person had/has while they were/are growing up. So no, teaching people a rule will probably not change the racism in the world.

EDIT- I realize that this post kind of forces my thoughts upon you and for that I apologize...

[unspun]

Eris is completely right here. People should be allowed to think what they want to think. Also I would like to point out (from my own experience) that the only thing separating one type of Ideas from another is the amount of money behind them. Not to call whites more rich or blacks more rich, but the ideas have nothing to do with how someone is raised as much as they have to do with home much money the person had/has while they were/are growing up. So no, teaching people a rule will probably not change the racism in the world.

EDIT- I realize that this post kind of forces my thoughts upon you and for that I apologize...

I disagree with the money aspect to a certain respect. I believe that racism has a lot to do with how people stereotype themselves, and the certain events that a person experiences while growing up.

While the money might keep a white or black person from entering a school in the "ghetto" it's not going to keep the white or black kid from getting picked on for being a minority, and while I say that, let me remind you that racism nowadays is a 2 way street.

There is such a thing as reverse racism nowadays in that there are all black colleges but if there were to be an all white college it would be deemed racist and unethical.

If a person is treated like their whole life because they are different, they will believe that and they will "stereotype themselves". This meaning the white trash who was shown that the only way to make a decent living was to marry someone rich, or the black kid who sells drugs because that's all he knows, and refuses the possibility of a college future because he is taught he is different, has seldom to do with money and a lot to do with the lazy parents they ALL had, in what values they were taught as a child.

I know plenty of rich white people who were taught they can have anything they want, and most of the time end up in jail with a rape charge, for "taking what they assumed was theirs, or what they had a right to"

I know homeless white people who do the same thing, because they were too drunk to realize she was screaming "No".

The bottle swings both ways.

[Lunafreya Fleuret]

Racism is something that we all need to be taught about, including the kindness of this world, as well as respect for others. And just because they're different, doesn't mean you can be rude towards them. Their life is just as bad as we have it. Also like what Unspun said, there are two ways to it. =/

[Zedekiah]

I find it silly indeed, why hate some instead of everyone?

That's so close-minded! : (

[Eris]

the kindness of this world

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!



Seriously though, are you hallucinogenic drugs?

[Zedekiah]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!! Seriously, are you hallucinogenic drugs?

He's li3k Jerry Jackson.

He gets hai on laif.

[Eris]

He's li3k Jerry Jackson.

He gets hai on laif.

I can see two options: Either some seriously strong hallucinogens, or s/he's been brainwashed by the conspiracy of children's cartoon makers, 9-year olds and plastic-heart/tacky greeting card corporations.

[Zedekiah]

I can see two options: Either some seriously strong hallucinogens, or s/he's been brainwashed by the conspiracy of children's cartoon makers, 9-year olds and plastic-heart/tacky greeting card corporations.

Or he could just be that way. Scary, I know, but it's one of those things one has to come to terms with considering humanity's stup-- humanity.

[Antares]

So no, teaching people a rule will probably not change the racism in the world.

I agree. I don't support racism, but teaching people to accept others as they are, well, it hasn't worked. It has been tried, but people are hypocrites like that.

For example, in my country's schools are always telling kids "The nation is a mix of different races. We should not support racism, we are direct descendants of Africans and we must respect Haitians." And yet, you see a lot of people calling haitians inmigrant "trash" "scum" and so many nasty names that I can't type here.

[Anpan Hayase]

I think teaching tolerance helps.

Being bi-racial, I never really knew about racism until I was a little older when some other kids who weren't taught that all people are equal, confronted me on the color of my skin.
But then, plenty of kids who aren't even taught to be tolerant or taught to hate other people, grow up embracing varietys of people and their cultures, simply because they wanted to... In the other hand, some people who were taught to be accepting of other races turn out being racist.
So... teaching people acceptance and tolerance helps, but in the end, whether it's good or bad, they come to their own decision on how they feel about a group of people.

[Lucidian Dyne]

(And thus, after my five day hiatus.)

At least there are those who acknowledge that teaching tolerance is a difficult process. Kudos to you folks.

Perhaps we can chalk this up to a micromanagerial legacy -- that is, lots of individual families passing down these ways of thinking due to the history behind segregation and racism. By and large, there is an overwhelming number of communities in which most of the residents can be tagged with two key characteristics: groups of individuals congregating under territorial or racial supremacy, and the presence of threat to all those that don't fit the rule.

Slam this notion with as much sociology as you like, people. Back it up with historical facts; do this as vehemently as you want. Whether a person fails to acknowledge equality because of what is taught to them, or whether by intellectual design ("haha, this is funny."), it does not detract from the fact that there is the possibility of coexistence. The improbablity of such, no matter how grand, should not overpower the idea that it's possible, and furthermore this is not an argument about the forecast/survival of these ideas in any length of future-time.

I'm willing to bet that there is -some- amount of goodness in people, no matter how maladaptive a group's mannerisms have grown to become. I'll even bet on there being a spark of goodness in people who lie through their teeth about their own lack of likability. Even in the most cold-blooded killer or the truest Western-world gangster, there's something good in there.

None of us were born cynics. So why must we grow into cynicism based on the premise and ease of self-gratification?

[Kiran]

Race should never matter. And I find it heart breaking that people can't accept that reality.

[Atrumrox]

I say a person is a person. And it doesnt matter if other people are racist. You can always be the good one and some will eventually catch on to your example.

[Wio]

I say a person is a person. And it doesnt matter if other people are racist. You can always be the good one and some will eventually catch on to your example.

This is the best post in this forum so far!

I agree. Talking about racism, just like talking about drugs, can end up advertising the thing and getting more supporters of it.

[bankai]

my point of view is that racism si just a form of discrimination(you don't like him because he's white ,black,yellow, red, blue ,green etc...you get the point)...But then again you don't like him because he's a Christian, ortodox, buddhist,agnostic, atheist and so on...more over even if everybody had the same skin colour, the same religion, the same culture,the same gender(i exagerated about it but this is the oldest form of discrimination) there will still be discrimination:he earns more money ,he's more good-looking...you see the point? the basic idea is that he is not you...and for that you may choose to hate him...or you may choose to accept him...it is easier to hate someone for being different than to accept him for who he is.

[Koshiro]

Racism, another way people show how they hate anything thats different from them.