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Thread: Do you think "War" is moralisticly: A bad idea or good idea?

  1. #26
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    Rofl MP2000... :3

    And there's nothing moralistic about waging war... It's just a Strategy Game...

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faceless111 View Post
    So you would also oppose military interaction if it were to prevent a genocide of some sort?
    Though two wrongs don't make a right. War to prevent a genocide is like murder to prevent murder. Or robbing a bank to raise money to fight crime.

  3. #28
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    Wars can be for stupid reasons or for good reasons. But if I had to choose between if wars necessary or not, then yes. They are what prevent overcrowding. It's like a forest fire. People say there bad because they kill animals and plants of all sorts. However, after the fire, the ground is full of minerals, allowing life to regrow. Without that fire, all of the minerals could have been used up completely , and there wouldn't be life any plants there until the minerals came back. Without those plants, herbivores will starve and either die of or move on. Then, the carnivores would either die from starvation, kill each other of, or move on. Either way, the land will be barren for a while. Wars are the same way. They kill and let the next generation take over.
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    i think this war is unjust we are figthing over stupid oil if we use maybe diffrent resources instead of oil it could work and we wouldn't have lives and families ruined the death rate so far for the soilders is 3,500 thats in a few months if we keep this up the deathrate will rise. some of those soilders used to be students at my school i knew one. you know what f the oil f the industry. am sorry but thats what i think..
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bug View Post
    Wars can be for stupid reasons or for good reasons. But if I had to choose between if wars necessary or not, then yes. They are what prevent overcrowding. It's like a forest fire. People say there bad because they kill animals and plants of all sorts. However, after the fire, the ground is full of minerals, allowing life to regrow. Without that fire, all of the minerals could have been used up completely , and there wouldn't be life any plants there until the minerals came back. Without those plants, herbivores will starve and either die of or move on. Then, the carnivores would either die from starvation, kill each other of, or move on. Either way, the land will be barren for a while. Wars are the same way. They kill and let the next generation take over.
    'Cept if someone goes and drops a nuclear bomb on yer head. Then you're totally fu*ked along with the minerals, plants, herbivores, carnivores, plenty of generations to come and the cute little bunny rabbits
    "Done because we are too meny."

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Though two wrongs don't make a right. War to prevent a genocide is like murder to prevent murder. Or robbing a bank to raise money to fight crime.

    Not to forget wars seldomly were started to prevent a genocide. Wars have been mostly started either after a country later declaring war has been attacked and dragged into the conflict that way or when there were economical interests. And no, thats not meant as an insult to the US, thats why wars were led mostly in ancient Europe. Genocide was not prevented in former Yugoslavia until Kosovo conflict (theres a lawsuit against dutchie UN troops because they did not protect the civilians in Srebrenica, theres rumors some soldiers even commited crimes side by side with the Serbians, at least they witnessed war atrocities including the beheading or cutting throats of babies and kids, wish they wouldve had French foreign legion peeps there instead, those guys can fight) , nor in Africa (Ruanda, where the UN failed again, or Congo/Zaire).
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  7. #32
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    Seriously, I don't have an actual "opinion" about it. Sorta...

    Besides, all this talk about "Is war bad and should it be stopped?" bring up the statement: "If you say that history should have never had war, look on the foundation you're standing on." *no offense to those that don't live in the US*

    War is, in a way, what built history. I sometimes believe it is quite uneeded in the world, but no one gives a care of what you think about this.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by xX_Why do i love you_Xx View Post
    i think this war is unjust we are figthing over stupid oil if we use maybe diffrent resources instead of oil it could work and we wouldn't have lives and families ruined the death rate so far for the soilders is 3,500 thats in a few months if we keep this up the deathrate will rise. some of those soilders used to be students at my school i knew one. you know what f the oil f the industry. am sorry but thats what i think..
    I don't know if I want to form a proper reply or run you down with my car after securing chains to my tires. Well, I'd rather do both, so for now a reply:

    OH WAIT. I already mentioned a reason (which I believe is the reason) why this war is being fought over oil. And you boldly claim to "f the oil industry" well you are a mere hypocrite. I say that because you are using oil all the time. You may heat your water and house with it. You certainly have to use it to drive around with. So tell you what, if you really feel that strongly, simply boycott the oil industry. Refuse to get in ANY automobile indefinitely. Walk or bike to every destination you have to go to, hey it's healthy after all. If you find out your house is heated via oil, refuse to accept that heat or hot water. Wear sweaters all the time and learn to love cold showers.

    But, I know you won't. You flap your gums and talk like you have a spark, but won't take action - because like I said, you're a hypocrite. You will condemn the very thing that makes your life convenient - as you are using it no less.
    Last edited by Sagat; 06-11-2007 at 06:38 PM.

  9. #34
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    Default Oh me oh my.

    War i say, is needed.
    Countries/Governments are selfish. They will have no trouble with a few lives being taken.
    The government also has no problems with taking away from other countries too.
    People are selfish.
    Fighting for land, money, oil?
    Ever since the beginning of time, the highest leaders were always the one benefiting very highly off of wars.
    And thats all our government wants too, is money.
    This war with Iraq is pointless.
    Lives get changed, and some are lost.
    The government wont do anything but give a few hundred dollars here and there, maybe a thousand or two, but the government will never be able to give soilders there normal lives back.

    So, I think war is needed..without war there wouldn't be peace.
    but the expensive that people pay isn't worth it.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Though two wrongs don't make a right. War to prevent a genocide is like murder to prevent murder. Or robbing a bank to raise money to fight crime.
    Not really. I don't consider the death penality murder, so I don't consider military action to be in the wrong. It's killing killers, true, but there's nothing wrong with killing unless it's done for stupid reasons. Preventing genocide isn't a stupid reason, therefore it's justified.

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    Present day war is cowardly, you have a bunch of morons and their puppeteers behind buttons and triggers. If you're going to fight for your country pick up a sword and shield and fight for it.

    It's so easy now to wage war, no one ever fully thinks it through.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    I see someone has never tired to run through the desert with a 55-gallon barrel strapped to their back.
    55 gals would be ridiculously heavy

    anyways I'm going to attempt to ignore many of the comments on here because i don't feel like personally addressing each
    ill just say my 2 cents on war pretty much disregarding the whole morality spin on the question because you cant bring morality into killing, you might as well try to discuss religion with anyone on the xbox live

    war is pretty good
    and I don't mean anything like the Vietnam war because that didn't bring anything good, because we went into it thinking were so bad
    no the wars throughout history when a country put everything into it, when technological improvements boomed overnight, where education and fitness were valued
    and yes many were "screwed" in the military sense but there was much more good going on, it is the most basic form of "stirring the pot" without society stagnates
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mini_Twilight View Post
    Present day war is cowardly, you have a bunch of morons and their puppeteers behind buttons and triggers. If you're going to fight for your country pick up a sword and shield and fight for it.

    It's so easy now to wage war, no one ever fully thinks it through.
    I dare any country to choose swords and shields over M-16's and wage war. Let's see what wins, technology or stupidity.

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    ...

    I don't mean swords and shields up against guns and bombs. I meant warfare with more traditional weapons, when war was a King and his army against another King and his army.
    Last edited by OminousCloud; 06-12-2007 at 01:47 AM.


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  15. #40
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    well wars are only brough pain and suffer. most of peopole are try to erase the war from humanity. unfortunately i though it wont be possible as long as human are walk on a surface of the earth. as you know human are gifted with emotion such as greed, envy, love, hatred, etc.

    Those emotion are very hard to control. very unstable and dangerous indeed. so the only way to earn the real peace is only to erace those emotion from humanity but as the side effect humman will lost its mind and become a doll (never do anything without command). we wont need a competition to earn our ambition.

    if it goes like that im sure that humanity will destroyed for sure. as you know humanity created to be destroyed for all wich had an begining are have an end.
    We observe all.....Then when do we move?
    We cant just wait and see right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mini_Twilight View Post
    ...

    I don't mean swords and shields up against guns and bombs. I meant warfare with more traditional weapons, when war was a King and his army against another King and his army.
    just leave it youve had too much 300
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    *shrugs* I prefer olden styles of fighting, it was more personal I guess.


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    sure you are right. they would prefer to kiling someone from distance then doing a duel. sometimes they even didnt care who are they kill for a weapon had no eyes and will always follows its master command. im sure when a war breaks out a singgel soldier are always causing more destruction not only to its enemy but also a civilian and even to his allied.

    if i was forced to kill someone i would prefer to use a sniper rifle not because it was save but i could make sure that i didnt make a wrong decicion when i was aiming my target and i could give honor to my prey by knowing who is he
    We observe all.....Then when do we move?
    We cant just wait and see right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mini_Twilight View Post
    Present day war is cowardly, you have a bunch of morons and their puppeteers behind buttons and triggers. If you're going to fight for your country pick up a sword and shield and fight for it.

    It's so easy now to wage war, no one ever fully thinks it through.
    Yes, and the feudal/shogun times where samurai would cut down anyone stupid enough to stand in front of them as they walked down the path without fear of legal reprisal was so much more honourable.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mini_Twilight View Post
    ...

    I don't mean swords and shields up against guns and bombs. I meant warfare with more traditional weapons, when war was a King and his army against another King and his army.
    Sounds a lot like a country's leader and his army and another country's leader and his army. And swords aren't traditional; they're weapons. They were the finest weapons available for the common soldier in feudal times. Technology allows for soldiers to do their job much easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faceless111 View Post
    Not really. I don't consider the death penality murder, so I don't consider military action to be in the wrong. It's killing killers, true, but there's nothing wrong with killing unless it's done for stupid reasons. Preventing genocide isn't a stupid reason, therefore it's justified.
    But what is justification? From the genoiciders' perspective, they are probably doing themselves or humanity a great benefit. So the genocide is as much justified as the war to stop it.

    Justification is subjective. As is morality, good/evil, and all that.

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    Therefore like most things, whom is right or wrong comes down to whoever is stronger.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mini_Twilight View Post
    Present day war is cowardly, you have a bunch of morons and their puppeteers behind buttons and triggers. If you're going to fight for your country pick up a sword and shield and fight for it.

    It's so easy now to wage war, no one ever fully thinks it through.
    People do think it through - why do we have military doctrines detailing how to proceed after we take point A, than B, what do we do when there are guerrillas in the mountains, or an tank column coming down the road, cetera.

    You haven't though out your post mate, you need to take a serious look at the fighting in Iraq, World War 1, 2, Gulf War. War hasn't so much changed from whom fights it except the common soldier being involved in more insurgent and urban warfare.

    The reason why we don't fight with swords and shields today is because... Englishmen toke the gunpowder from China and decided to make Muskets.

    You know what happened? Muskets bullets could penetrate the thickest steel armor plating of Knights. Let's re roll that into cannons and even the most fortified and thickest castles couldn't withstand cannonballs smashing into them.

    Now lets rewind this forward several hundred years now and you see why... were not fighting with swords and shields. No American plans to run towards insurgents with a claymore while he is blasting him with an AK-47.

    What we need to do today is give soldiers that are fighting in Iraq, especially the ones with lost limbs do what the Roman's did. Give them acres of land in the United States or Middle East to live off of with their families. Surely they'll repay their loyalty by fighting for their lives like they did previously.

    In the Cold War, the U.S and CCCP always came close to launching the nuclear holocaust but never did was because they risked total destruction of themselves. A sacrifice to great which is why Khrushchev implementing nuclear missiles on Cuban soil was a great idea. To fire at the CCCP if Cuba hit the East Coast couldn't be justified and the world would turn on the U.S.
    "Gotta take the good with the bad, smile to the sad, love what you got and remember what you had." - Project Pat

  24. #49
    Moderator / Chat Admin Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein has a reputation beyond repute Cless Alvein's Avatar
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    There is meaning in battle, and people will assign whatever meaning suits them best and blissfully ignore all other arguments. Need a reference? See every post before mine (and probably after). There's no right or wrong on the battle field, no good or bad. Just the ones who live and the ones who don't. "Moral value" is a secondary concern that people who usually weren't involved assign later after the results have been tallied - not at the beginning.

    Having said that, everyone who used the current conflict in Iraq to make a point by refering to it as a War for Oil needs to:

    1. Shut up.

    2. Stop talking about things you don't know about.

    3. Learn what you're talking about before speaking again.

    And by the way, we do follow rules. We follow the hell out of them, even when it's not in our best interest or to our immediate benefit.

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    That's very interesting Cless, perhaps I can say the Geneva Convention follows your statement a hundred percent: Politicians that know only of the after effects of violence made restrictions to warfare so that every nation didn't go around flattening every city on the planet if they found hidden enemies in them, or visible ones.

    I used the Moral argument since people have their respects and limitations to do things in warfare and I just don't mean governments or people who like at a map and tell where this group of soldiers/warriors are going.

    When I watched the movie Downfall, (1945 Berlin, when the Soviets were invading), a Nazi General witnessed several SS hanging German citizens for trying to run away from being drafted into I forgotten they called militants in German. He was deeply shocked as another part was they were chasing this one man and shot him for trying to survive and escape, still being SS doing this and the General's adjutant (You'd say right-hand, one who drives your car if your a General but is in the General ranks as well) whipped up his MP40 in response. He simply walked back to his vehicle to proceed on.

    If a soldier is ordered to behead a man because they convicted him of fighting against them in an earlier battle when they unsuccessfully besieged the town, the soldier doesn't want to because he thinks thats wrong whether its the truth or not. You cannot say that isn't Morality, what keeps you from being a monster just as everyone else.
    "Gotta take the good with the bad, smile to the sad, love what you got and remember what you had." - Project Pat

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