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Thread: Do you think "War" is moralisticly: A bad idea or good idea?

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    Default Do you think "War" is moralisticly: A bad idea or good idea?

    In history we had thousands of wars; some over the stupidest things and some over realistic ideologies and resources or the eradication of a group of people thought inferior to the aggressors. It's all opinions but heres an example:

    Some believe the United States went to Iraq to secure a Pro-American puppet government under the name and idea of "Democracy". Furthermore to secure the oil fields of Iraq to allow undisrupted flow gasoline into our tankers in this fine, super-capitalist (Had to add) country.

    That hasn't really related to the question however look deeper and you'll understand. If the U.S Imperialism of Iraq was successful, would our country and Iraq be doing better or for worse?

    Enough? So in a nice mannered argument over the morality of War - do you think War in its definition is correct? Human between human over a strip of fertile soil or gasoline and metals? Killing off a species of animals because they threaten towns or whether for religious or secular means kill off an population of human beings. We can bring this to new heights.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/War
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=War

    I believe War shouldn't be thought morally but from a broader 3rd perspective not that I ignore the gruesome atrocities and effects of it.

    If an species of hostile animals wore in an region of iron metal and this to-be flourishing civilization had to kill them with wooden sticks to obtain the metal, it should be done. Does the animal species use this material? No therefore they should be emigrated to another area or be enslaved/killed off. Of course people are going to say its wrong a thousand years ago or during that time in another land because they weren't their to understand it. You have to make sacrifices even if the next thing suffers to survive. It's all about Survival and it makes as much sense as a starving child cannibalizing over another dead boy or eating something recently alive you thought was cute or it didn't have to be done.

    If you saw somebody kill a Deer with a rifle, would you get upset? Probably because that was "mean", irresponsible but put yourself in that persons position. If you were hungry and had no money to purchase food and had the materials to make food out of a living thing, wouldn't you be holding that rifle and pointing it at a Deer licking your lips? Exactly.

    Also War has brought Humanity boundless leaps into new places of science and understanding. I have faith in that if we didn't experience both World Wars, we would never be as advanced today. The theory of Radar would've taken longer would not if the U-Boat situation around Britain and Britain's desire to defend its island from Germany not be an reality. Think about rocket technology, without Adolf Hitler and the previous war things would be slower today. We can make up assumptions or in some peoples minds conclusions that we could've done faster or to late who knows, but history has documented the motivation of individuals in improving a certain thing or creating say the computer because X war threatened X country and X country brought television, cable and cars into the world thereafter. It is a deep stray away from the question but its still relevant.
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  2. #2
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    In history wars were waged for lands and conquering but today over oil and some other stuff.

    I say stop it fighting over oil how foolish ¬_¬!II
    Last edited by bttr; 06-10-2007 at 09:16 AM.

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    Morality is subjective, ergo it depends. I don't think it matters how anyone feels about it anyway.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Honestly I believe it depends on the situation that has arisen. War is never really morally right unless it's to stop some lunatic from taking over the world like Hitler. We havent been at war at all since World War 2 though. Vietnam and Iraq arent technically wars "shrugs". So yes morally it was right for the civil war/world war 2. Thats what I think.

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    Tsktsk..War. Nothing but trouble. Just because something of that sort happens, doesn't mean it needs to last a few years. Just like the Iraqi war. Now true, well said, Lafiel. It may be to stop some maniac, yet that doesn't mean several countries need to be involved. Let them take care of it on their own. Now, if it were about Civil War, fighting with neigboring countries, still, we'd not need to be involved. War is just another bit of nonsense this world Does. NOT need. All it causes is death of the innocent, and destruction of cities and economies. It is not needed, that is, in my opinion.
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    I can't really be bothered to read all that you posted but I skimmed over it and... Well I'm not sure how to answer your question.

    Personally I don't beleive in morals, it's like right and wrong, nobody can say what's right and wrong, morals follow a similar idea.
    Anyhow... If I cut it down to 'Do you think war is a bad idea or a good idea?' Bad. Always bad, but (without putting too much thought into it, so don't blame me if I'm wrong) I get a funny fealing we couldn't get by without it...
    "Done because we are too meny."

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    Quote Originally Posted by wú yǔ View Post
    Tsktsk..War. Nothing but trouble. Just because something of that sort happens, doesn't mean it needs to last a few years. Just like the Iraqi war. Now true, well said, Lafiel. It may be to stop some maniac, yet that doesn't mean several countries need to be involved. Let them take care of it on their own. Now, if it were about Civil War, fighting with neigboring countries, still, we'd not need to be involved. War is just another bit of nonsense this world Does. NOT need. All it causes is death of the innocent, and destruction of cities and economies. It is not needed, that is, in my opinion.
    I'd have to agree with you on some of that stuff. Although war is bad and innocent lives are lost I do think sometimes it is needed. I dont neccessarily like it though. War is our way of survival of the fittest. If we never had any wars at all throughout the years our earth would be worse off IMO. We would be way to overpopulated and there would be much starvation in the world with all the people. It may sound harsh but we need it to sweep up some of the people so to speak.

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    I think

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    Morality is subjective, ergo it depends. I don't think it matters how anyone feels about it anyway.
    ... so, yeh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bttr View Post
    In history wars were waged for lands and conquering but today over oil and some other stuff.

    I say stop it fighting over oil how foolish ¬_¬!II
    As aposed to land or the classic "My god is better than yours".
    This is a Sig. It's horribly out of date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bttr View Post
    In history wars were waged for lands and conquering but today over oil and some other stuff.

    I say stop it fighting over oil how foolish ¬_¬!II
    What's foolish about trying to improve your own situation at the expense of others? Sounds like a great plan, if you ask me.

  11. #11
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    Default hmm I think wars should..

    I think they should stop, I mean I don't like losing love ones and I know alot of people don't. Counting I lost one of my best friends in the war and we all still miss him so yea...

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    Now-'n'-days...war is just-...a total waste of time.

    I mean, I don't like it either, but WWII, for example. There we had a good reason.

    War against Iraq: Oil.
    I had two friends go to war because of the gas. o.O I'm not sure if they were joking about it, but they seemed pretty serious to me.

    ...There are some old cars that can be powered by other means.
    I think one guy powers his with used vegetable oil.

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    I am against war in every way, and I wish people didn't have to die just because our stupid governments can't agree on something.
    Last edited by Maledictis Voca; 06-10-2007 at 04:06 PM.
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    If people like you ruled Voca, we'd all be speaking German right now and be holding hereditary passports.

    War is both good and bad. Sometimes necessary, sometimes not. Whether it be for resources, revenge, expansion, ideals, it's as was already said subjective. So while at the heart of a war it may be difficult to see whether it is right or wrong, usually the victor will determine what it is for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by bttr View Post
    In history wars were waged for lands and conquering but today over oil and some other stuff.

    I say stop it fighting over oil how foolish ¬_¬!II
    To you and your narrow view perhaps. The US is addicted to oil. It needs it. When oil reserves start running dry, people like you will be the first to cry foul and slam the Government for not procuring enough oil.

    Given the shortages of fossil fuels and their predicted spiral decline, perhaps the US is attempting to secure a lifeline while it adapts its populace to different fuels and means of using energy. In which case, it is basically acting for the preservation of the "American way" - so if that is the case, tell me how it is foolish to ensure people can drive their cars to and from work, heat their houses and warm their water?
    Last edited by Sagat; 06-10-2007 at 05:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maledictis Voca View Post
    I am against war in every way, and I wish people didn't have to die just because our stupid governments can't agree on something.
    So you would oppose US military interference with the current genocides in Africa, such as in Darfur?

    But as for me, war is a vicarious thing that doesn't directly affect me as of yet. War is sad, but unavoidable.

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    The basis of necessity sucks. Look at the wars it's brought us.

    I guess evolved psychological aspects enable us to kill people whose faces we'll only see once in our lives, or less. If it's for the good of the country or entity, we can press buttons and pull triggers to our hearts' content. Superpowers of the world can boil things down to one key component of the existence of their followers -- superiority -- say they're right, and call it a night. They've got what we need, so let's use all existing media, our use of political rhetoric and proudly declare "Mine's bigger than yours!" before we make our opponents (not so much "enemies" as they are "obstacles") bloody smears on the face of history.

    Frankly, I believe what I've just described above is a complete load of crap. And I'm not even attacking anyone else's views here. Let's face it, most of us here are in an overall better state and situation than the rest of the world, that it's difficult for us to hold an objective viewpoint as it concerns the preservation of life on Earth. Glorifying the use of weapons, capitalism and self-preservation at the expense of all else... glorifying these things seems a bit counterproductive to the advocation of humanity's continued existence.

    If it's truly a human trait to be this destructive, I don't think the killing will stop with our enemies. And prospects of martial rule or a utopia don't hold nearly as much promise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maledictis Voca View Post
    I am against war in every way, and I wish people didn't have to die just because our stupid governments can't agree on something.
    I agree with this.
    However, sometimes war can be seen as an advantage to some countries' economy.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobriquet View Post
    I agree with this.
    However, sometimes war can be seen as an advantage to some countries' economy.
    So you would also oppose military interaction if it were to prevent a genocide of some sort?

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    I think war is just stupid. Why don't they just take the oil and run for it instead of killing thousands of people.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirayuki View Post
    I think war is just stupid. Why don't they just take the oil and run for it instead of killing thousands of people.
    I see someone has never tired to run through the desert with a 55-gallon barrel strapped to their back.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    I didnt mean literally run >_>

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    On the issue of morality... I get so sick of civilians trying to protest, not just military action, but then complaining about the way military action is taken.

    I've got some news for them: War isn't a humanitarian prospect. There aren't rules, generosity, or fair play. Stop whining and let the soldiers do what they need to do. I got so sickened when I hear of soldiers being accused of "war crimes" while trying to defend themselves.

    ...There are some old cars that can be powered by other means.
    I think one guy powers his with used vegetable oil.


    Vegetable oil works so long as only whiny (comment withheld) hippies use it. Vegetable oil is more expensive than gasoline, and your local grocer doesn't exactly have thousands of gallons handy for people to use. Not to mention crude oil doesn't exactly have many other uses, vegetables do.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirayuki View Post
    I didnt mean literally run >_>
    So like, walk? Because I think they'll get you if you walk.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shirayuki View Post
    I think war is just stupid. Why don't they just take the oil and run for it instead of killing thousands of people.
    Did you read what you wrote? If a country tried to go in and just take a resource from another country in this case oil. I'm pretty sure that the country thats being pillaged would probably retaliate by killing everyone trying to steal that resource. The only way to take what you need is to be buddy buddy with that country. Set up some kind of base there gets lots of troops around the area then work from there. Essentially what the United States did with Iraq. Iraq is in the middle of a lot of different countries. If we had a strong enough force there we could easily invade any surrounding country before they knew what hit them.

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    Mmm..."war" itself has no morality. It is the people choosing to go to war or refrain from it that first bring morality into the mix. It is then further complicated by those fighting, supporting, protesting, or not supporting the war.

    I don't think anyone will say war is wonderful, but I don't think one can place a value judgment on war. One must place the value judgment on the reason for the war or what happened during the war or because of it. War is neither good nor evil; it simply is what it is and individuals are who give it a moral value. And that can change from war to war, person to person, and time to time. The value is not constant. Regardless of what people may think of war, I think the greatest tragedy of war is not that they happen, but that their causes and effects are so quickly forgotten.
    Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

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