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Thread: Could this be proof about God¿

  1. #1
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    Default Could this be proof about God¿

    THE COSMOS: A PROOF OF GOD'S EXISTENCE.

    “In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth” -- Genesis 1:1.
    “The cosmos is that that is, or ever was, or ever will be. ” – Carl Sagan.

    The two statements above are both statements of faith. Neither can be experimentally verified and both make assumptions. The two statements also offer a remarkable contrast. The first statement indicates:


    1. There was a beginning.
    2. The beginning was caused.
    3. The cause was God.
    The second statement indicates:

    1. There was no beginning.
    2. The cosmos is self-existing and thus uncaused.
    3. The universe was not created and thus is the product of non-intelligence.

    Statements like the second statement are frequently offered by those antagonistic to the existence of God. The interesting thing is that we can offer a considerable amount of scientific evidence that we had a beginning, that the beginning was caused, and that the cause was God. Let us examine some of that evidence.

    BEGINNING OR NO BEGINNING

    Like all stars, the Sun generates its energy by a nuclear process known as thermonuclear fusion. Every second that passes, the Sun compresses 661 million tons of hydrogen into 657 million tons of helium with 4 million tons of matter released as energy. In spite of that tremendous consumption of fuel, the Sun has only used up 2% of the hydrogen it had the day it came into existence. This incredible furnace is not a process confined to the Sun. Every star in the sky generates its energy in the same way. All over the cosmos are 25 quintillion stars, each converting hydrogen into helium, thereby reducing the total amount of hydrogen in the cosmos. Just think about it! If everywhere in the cosmos hydrogen is being consumed and if the process has been going on forever, how much hydrogen should be left?

    Suppose I attempt to drive my automobile without putting any more gas (fuel) into it. As I drive and drive and drive, what is eventually going to happen? I’m going to run out of gas!! It the cosmos has been here forever, we would have run out of hydrogen long ago! The fact is, however, that the sun still has 98% of its original hydrogen. The fact is that hydrogen is the most abundant material in the universe! Everywhere we look in space we see the hydrogen 21 cm line in the spectrum - a piece of light only given off by hydrogen. This could not be unless we had a beginning!!

    A second piece of evidence that we had a beginning is seen in the movement of galaxies. All galaxies are moving farther away relative to each other. Their movement has a very distinct pattern which causes the distance between the galaxies to get greater with every passing day.

    If we had three galaxies located at positions A, B and C in a triangle, tomorrow they will be further apart. The triangle they form will be bigger. The day after tomorrow the triangle will be bigger yet. We live in an expanding universe that gets bigger and bigger and bigger with every passing day.

    Now let’s suppose that we make time run backwards! If we are located at a certain distance today, then yesterday we were closer together. The day before that we were still closer. Ultimately where must all the galaxies have been? At a point! At a beginning!! At what scientists call a singularity!

    There are many other evidences and demonstrations that can be used to show that there was a beginning - such as the second law of thermodynamics. The second law of thermodynamics states that in a closed system, things move towards a state of disorder. This means that the cosmos must have had a beginning because if it had always been here it would now be totaly disordered and freezing cold because heat death would have set in. Therefore thermodynamically, the universe had to have a beginning.

    The fact that the universe is not only expanding but accelerating in that expansion rules out the possibility that we live in an oscillating universe that is eventually pulled back to a central point from which it expands all over again.

    CAUSE/NO CAUSE

    Not only can strong evidence be given to prove that we had a beginning as the Bible says, but we can also see a logical problem in maintaining that the cosmos was uncaused. If the universe had a beginning and that beginning was uncaused, then something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From empty space with no force, no matter, no energy and no intelligence, matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical problem.

    In order for matter to come out of nothing, all of our scientific laws dealing with the conservation of matter-energy would have to be wrong, invalidating all of chemistry. All of our laws of conservation of angular momentum would have to be wrong, invalidating all of physics. All of our laws of conservation of electric charge would have to be wrong, invalidating all of electronics. In order to believe matter is uncaused, one has to discard known laws and principles of science. No reasonable person is going to do this simply to maintain a personal atheistic position.

    The atheist’s assertion that matter is eternal is wrong. The atheist’s assertion that the universe is uncaused and self-existing is also wrong. The Bible’s assertion that there was a beginning which was caused is supported strongly by the available scientific evidence. The next question is “What was the cause?” Was the cause a personal God who created the cosmos and life with purpose and intelligence? Or was the cause total chance - with no purpose and no intelligence?

  2. #2
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    Okay this explanation will take me a while

    First, the beginning of this universe as is currently understood by experts in the field of astronomy and phsyics is the big bang. This was an explosion not just in space but of space. Such was the energy release that it actually became matter (E=Mcsquared so to speak) now matter in its simplest, stable form is hydrogen hence its relative abundance however alot of other materials were made and became various materials such as gold and copper and spread out. Now I could go on about how those became galaxies and stars but that isn't the question so to save me time I'll just say that eventually stars aggregated and began to burn hydrogen into helium

    All's peachy

    Now... if hubbles constant for the amount of dark matter is correct then what will eventually happen is that the space that began to expand will slowly begin to slow by the force of the gravity of the matter in the universe. This boundary of space will stop and then begin to compress back in and suddenly we are left at the Big Crunch and we're back to where we began... an incredibly dense mass of raw energy... repeat ad infintium...

    Now... heres the hume fallacy which your premise of their being a creator depends on...

    if the universe's order is a result of design then the mind that built it must have been orderly...but what ordered that godly mind? a greater god? perhaps... but it keeps going ad infintium and eventually you must suppose an order that always has been and, according to Octam's Razor, the simplest solution that describes a system accurately is normally the correct on and thus since presupposing an existing cycle of the cosmos death and rebirth is simpler then presupposing both it and a god or series of gods it is a more reasonable solution

    Now... that said... God may exist... thats a distinct possiblity but There will never NEVER be a rational proof that he exists... like Kirkagard (I think thats how you spell it) realized... you have to believe out of faith and say... no matter how illogical what i believe may seem it is true in my eyes and it is what I stand for. Trying to find a rational proof is just caused by a lack of faith... because really... if logic stops you from believing something then its not faith... logically I can never wholy trust someone but I have faith in them.
    Last edited by Luzifer; 06-25-2007 at 10:21 PM.
    The tragedy of life comes not from pain, despair, sorrow, or even death; but the constant annihilating amnesia that begs us to forget we live.


  3. #3
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    @.@

    i think my brain hurts just from reading all that, its basically a bunch of theories on how the universe was created and what not, ummm i really dont know what to say about it cause the people who believe in God and the people who dont believe in God would prolly get at it and cause a scene and (<---worse case senerio) and cause a disputable thread and may end up getting closed down....ect

  4. #4
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    Hate to point this out, but time can't exist without a universe. How can something happen before time was created in the Big Bang? It's a self-negating premise.

    That said, this has nothing to do with the existence/non-existence of any deity. So, no it isn't proof. You can’t prove unfalsifiable propositions any more then you can disprove them.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    Hate to point this out, but time can't exist without a universe. How can something happen before time was created in the Big Bang? It's a self-negating premise.
    You do realize that your statement is based upon a linear presumption of time... perhaps time is merely an illusion... after all Kant shows that "time" is merely a construct created a priori in the mind. It is logically impossible for two objects after a motion to be the same object... they are merely different manifestation of the a similar object... it is only by connecting the seperate images in our minds and then creating this a priori assumption of time that those things are somehow the same object

    besides... thought time and space are now one and the same whose to say they always were? perhaps they were grafted together?

    that said all of what i just said are not scientific because they fail to make a testable prediction *cough*justlikestringtheory*cough* but still... its food for thought
    The tragedy of life comes not from pain, despair, sorrow, or even death; but the constant annihilating amnesia that begs us to forget we live.


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guza View Post
    @.@

    i think my brain hurts just from reading all that, its basically a bunch of theories on how the universe was created and what not, ummm i really dont know what to say about it cause the people who believe in God and the people who dont believe in God would prolly get at it and cause a scene and (<---worse case senerio) and cause a disputable thread and may end up getting closed down....ect
    This doesn't have to do with religion. just bcuz someone thinks god didn't create the universe doesn't mean they don't believe in god.

    besides i know there was a begining, it's just simple logic. everything has to start somewhere. if the universe has been here tho, then where would it have come from? Even if someone says it came from God, then where did God come from? Everything has to start somewhere.

  7. #7
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    Its called the big bang people, not god. <3






    Love the raving rabbids. <3


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by vAmPiRe_BlOoD View Post
    Even if someone says it came from God, then where did God come from? Everything has to start somewhere.
    um... you're saying that because we don't know where god came from there is no god and then saying everything has to start somewhere... excuse me but those two sentences are the exact opposite of each other... if things had to start somewhere then their had to be a beginning which could be god... but if they didn't then the universe didn't have to begin and there didn't have to be god... you can't have both points
    The tragedy of life comes not from pain, despair, sorrow, or even death; but the constant annihilating amnesia that begs us to forget we live.


  9. #9
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    The beginning is all scientific. What is logical is science, not a "god". Its very hard to believe in an all powerful being...I am god. <3 lol






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  10. #10
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    OK, on second thought, I'll actually make a real reply to this cruft.

    Quote Originally Posted by munky15 View Post
    THE COSMOS: A PROOF OF GOD'S EXISTENCE.

    “In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth” -- Genesis 1:1.
    “The cosmos is that that is, or ever was, or ever will be. ” – Carl Sagan.

    The two statements above are both statements of faith. Neither can be experimentally verified and both make assumptions. The two statements also offer a remarkable contrast. The first statement indicates:


    1. There was a beginning.
    2. The beginning was caused.
    3. The cause was God.
    The second statement indicates:

    1. There was no beginning.
    2. The cosmos is self-existing and thus uncaused.
    3. The universe was not created and thus is the product of non-intelligence.

    Statements like the second statement are frequently offered by those antagonistic to the existence of God. The interesting thing is that we can offer a considerable amount of scientific evidence that we had a beginning, that the beginning was caused, and that the cause was God. Let us examine some of that evidence.
    You don't understand the second view at all. Your view of it is entirely incorrect. The Universe had a beginning, but not a cause. Or, at least not one in how we'd normally think of causation, since it would have to happen before time began. Read that sentince again. Because it would have to have happen before time and space, any cause that may have happened is entirely unknowable. You can believe Yahweh magiced it up, I can believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster did it, and Eris can belive Bob did it. Or, it simply happened. Causation is a stupid thing to interject when nothing exists.

    BEGINNING OR NO BEGINNING

    Like all stars, the Sun generates its energy by a nuclear process known as thermonuclear fusion. Every second that passes, the Sun compresses 661 million tons of hydrogen into 657 million tons of helium with 4 million tons of matter released as energy. In spite of that tremendous consumption of fuel, the Sun has only used up 2% of the hydrogen it had the day it came into existence. This incredible furnace is not a process confined to the Sun. Every star in the sky generates its energy in the same way. All over the cosmos are 25 quintillion stars, each converting hydrogen into helium, thereby reducing the total amount of hydrogen in the cosmos. Just think about it! If everywhere in the cosmos hydrogen is being consumed and if the process has been going on forever, how much hydrogen should be left?

    Suppose I attempt to drive my automobile without putting any more gas (fuel) into it. As I drive and drive and drive, what is eventually going to happen? I’m going to run out of gas!! It the cosmos has been here forever, we would have run out of hydrogen long ago! The fact is, however, that the sun still has 98% of its original hydrogen. The fact is that hydrogen is the most abundant material in the universe! Everywhere we look in space we see the hydrogen 21 cm line in the spectrum - a piece of light only given off by hydrogen. This could not be unless we had a beginning!!
    I already mentioned why you're wrong about the beginning thing, but I wonder if this thread isn't an expression of angst from you failing physics class. Matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

    A second piece of evidence that we had a beginning is seen in the movement of galaxies. All galaxies are moving farther away relative to each other. Their movement has a very distinct pattern which causes the distance between the galaxies to get greater with every passing day.

    If we had three galaxies located at positions A, B and C in a triangle, tomorrow they will be further apart. The triangle they form will be bigger. The day after tomorrow the triangle will be bigger yet. We live in an expanding universe that gets bigger and bigger and bigger with every passing day.

    Now let’s suppose that we make time run backwards! If we are located at a certain distance today, then yesterday we were closer together. The day before that we were still closer. Ultimately where must all the galaxies have been? At a point! At a beginning!! At what scientists call a singularity!

    There are many other evidences and demonstrations that can be used to show that there was a beginning - such as the second law of thermodynamics. The second law of thermodynamics states that in a closed system, things move towards a state of disorder. This means that the cosmos must have had a beginning because if it had always been here it would now be totaly disordered and freezing cold because heat death would have set in. Therefore thermodynamically, the universe had to have a beginning.

    The fact that the universe is not only expanding but accelerating in that expansion rules out the possibility that we live in an oscillating universe that is eventually pulled back to a central point from which it expands all over again.

    CAUSE/NO CAUSE

    Not only can strong evidence be given to prove that we had a beginning as the Bible says, but we can also see a logical problem in maintaining that the cosmos was uncaused. If the universe had a beginning and that beginning was uncaused, then something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From empty space with no force, no matter, no energy and no intelligence, matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical problem.

    In order for matter to come out of nothing, all of our scientific laws dealing with the conservation of matter-energy would have to be wrong, invalidating all of chemistry. All of our laws of conservation of angular momentum would have to be wrong, invalidating all of physics. All of our laws of conservation of electric charge would have to be wrong, invalidating all of electronics. In order to believe matter is uncaused, one has to discard known laws and principles of science. No reasonable person is going to do this simply to maintain a personal atheistic position.

    The atheist’s assertion that matter is eternal is wrong. The atheist’s assertion that the universe is uncaused and self-existing is also wrong. The Bible’s assertion that there was a beginning which was caused is supported strongly by the available scientific evidence. The next question is “What was the cause?” Was the cause a personal God who created the cosmos and life with purpose and intelligence? Or was the cause total chance - with no purpose and no intelligence?

    Re-read my first paragraph, and harder. Etch it into your brain.

    Also, if I may be a huge pessimist and/or realist, quit using Straw man to try to create flame wars, troll.

    @Breaeden "Luzy" Swordwind: Yeah, but I'm talking about the event as a human would have recorded it (impossibly aside). As far as the universe is concerned, the concept of time is meaningless.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    okay guys..my opinion here is that there is a God who created this Earth and everything on it..so i take after my friend calling the Big Bang theory the Big Dang theory...and according to wat ive read theories r basically just guesses..
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    @Manhattan_Project_2000- MARRY ME!??<3






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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anime_Freak7416 View Post
    okay guys..my opinion here is that there is a God who created this Earth and everything on it..so i take after my friend calling the Big Bang theory the Big Dang theory...and according to wat ive read theories r basically just guesses..
    NO... no... no... not just guess not by a long shot... there are years of research... for example... the galaxies and universe are moving away from a single point... no matter where you point a radio dish in the universe you get the same amount of static... these are all proofs there was a big bang... there is more but I really don't care enough right now...

    Maybe there is a God... I'm not saying your wrong... but don't slander science because some people say differently
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  14. #14
    Is back!!! Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari's Avatar
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    Ok. My theroy is that I believe in God. He may not have made the Earth or stuff but I think that it is better to believe in god.

    And if there is a god and you believe then you go to heaven and if you believed and there is not a god then you have nothing to worry about

    But if there is a god and you said you don't believe then you kinda screwed yourself over. So that is what I say about god and my opinion weather there is a good or not
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    Junior Member Anime_Freak7416 is infamous around these parts Anime_Freak7416 is infamous around these parts Anime_Freak7416's Avatar
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    ok Manhattan..see ur wrong bout the Atheist thing bcuz there is no such thing..see "atheists" believe in neither a god or a devil..according to som ppl..but i bet u one day ull find a so called "atheist",and ur gonna here him/her say "oh my god" atleast once..and that can prove that there is no such thing as Atheists/atheitism
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  16. #16
    Neverwinter Gnostic Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukari112 View Post
    Ok. My theroy is that I believe in God. He may not have made the Earth or stuff but I think that it is better to believe in god.

    And if there is a god and you believe then you go to heaven and if you believed and there is not a god then you have nothing to worry about

    But if there is a god and you said you don't believe then you kinda screwed yourself over. So that is what I say about god and my opinion weather there is a good or not
    My reply to this is that... God is something to be overcome... god is subservient to mankind... God by his nature must be undefined for he must be all and be nothing... he must be a conceptual neutral entity or else he lacks the ability to God... therefore since mankind can define... mankind can force this power upon God and thereby destroy him (oh and I'm using him in a gender-neutral sense... its just easier to say then make up a pronoun for a person lacking gender)...

    Also, say you believe in God... which God? Mormon God? Muslim God? if god would get angry at you for not believing in him then he would get angry at believing that he is something that he is not... there for even if you believe in god unless you follow what ever scripture he speaks through or such then your just as screwed...

    my policy on that is this... I don't believe in God... but I'm not mean to people... I don't beat people up and I help out when I can... if God would send me to tell since I don't believe in him... well... then I don't want to be in his heavan... if god sends good people to hell for such a petty reason... then I'll accept hell and torment gladly

    Anime... TAKE A SCIENCE COURSE... a hypothesis is a guess... a theory has been consitantly proven by experimentation... the only thing higher then a theory is a Law which cannot be proven but taken as fact by its nature... for example that a triangle in a non-hyperbolic space has three angles adding up to 180 degrees is a law... A theory is not a guess! a guess is something someone says without evidence... no matter how much evidence something has it will never be more then a theory... the theory is a fusion of many many proven hypothesis... you are thinking of theory in the vernacular sense
    Last edited by Luzifer; 06-25-2007 at 11:28 PM.
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  17. #17
    There's nothing new Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anime_Freak7416 View Post
    ok Manhattan..see ur wrong bout the Atheist thing bcuz there is no such thing..see "atheists" believe in neither a god or a devil..according to som ppl..but i bet u one day ull find a so called "atheist",and ur gonna here him/her say "oh my god" atleast once..and that can prove that there is no such thing as Atheists/atheitism
    One. I said nothing about atheists.

    Two, you sir are some kind of stupid if you really think that a person saying a common expression is somehow forced to believe in it.

    Breaeden..see i can prove that theories are guesses..look up theory in the dictionary!!!its real simple
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/theory

    3.(countable) (sciences) A coherent statement or set of statements that attempts to explain observed phenomena.
    There is now a well-developed theory of electrical charge.

    4.(countable) (sciences) A logical structure that enables one to deduce the possible results of every experiment that falls within its purview.
    The theory of relativity was proposed by Einstein.

    5.(uncountable) (mathematics) A field of study attempting to exhaustively describe a particular class of constructs.
    Knot theory classifies the mappings of a circle into 3-space.

    6.(countable) (logic) A set of axioms together with all statements derivable from them.
    A theory is consistent if it has a model.

    Yeah. Use a dictionary. You should try that.
    Last edited by Manhattan_Project_2000; 06-25-2007 at 11:28 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    One. I said nothing about atheists.

    Two, you sir are some kind of stupid if you really think that a person saying a common expression is somehow forced to believe in it.


    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/theory

    3.(countable) (sciences) A coherent statement or set of statements that attempts to explain observed phenomena.
    There is now a well-developed theory of electrical charge.

    4.(countable) (sciences) A logical structure that enables one to deduce the possible results of every experiment that falls within its purview.
    The theory of relativity was proposed by Einstein.

    5.(uncountable) (mathematics) A field of study attempting to exhaustively describe a particular class of constructs.
    Knot theory classifies the mappings of a circle into 3-space.

    6.(countable) (logic) A set of axioms together with all statements derivable from them.
    A theory is consistent if it has a model.

    Yeah. Use a dictionary. You should try that.
    Thank you, dude... my cases in point are as above
    The tragedy of life comes not from pain, despair, sorrow, or even death; but the constant annihilating amnesia that begs us to forget we live.


  19. #19
    Junior Member Anime_Freak7416 is infamous around these parts Anime_Freak7416 is infamous around these parts Anime_Freak7416's Avatar
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    ok Manhattan..i would much apreciate it if u wouldnt place me as a male..
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anime_Freak7416 View Post
    ok Manhattan..i would much apreciate it if u wouldnt place me as a male..
    I didn't. I said sir. Think of it as similar to the usage Marcie from Peanuts would use if she were filled with disgust.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Is back!!! Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari has a reputation beyond repute Yukari's Avatar
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    Also, say you believe in God... which God? Mormon God? Muslim God? if god would get angry at you for not believing in him then he would get angry at believing that he is something that he is not... there for even if you believe in god unless you follow what ever scripture he speaks through or such then your just as screwed...
    Well yeah I guess I am screwed if I believe in the wrong god but I grew up believe in a god. I may not pray to him and ask him to grant a wish I have but I still believe in him.

    my policy on that is this... I don't believe in God... but I'm not mean to people... I don't beat people up and I help out when I can... if God would send me to tell since I don't believe in him... well... then I don't want to be in his heavan... if god sends good people to hell for such a petty reason... then I'll accept hell and torment gladly
    I believe in god and I am still nice to people I first meet unless they are mean to me. I don't take crap and not give it back. I am a nice person to people who are nice to me and a (put your word of choice in here) to people who are (again word of choice)
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  22. #22
    Neverwinter Gnostic Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer has a reputation beyond repute Luzifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anime_Freak7416 View Post
    and Breaeden i did use a dictionary....just not the stupid computer kind..use one ur physically able to touch..it might help
    okay... first of all that was MP2K not me but I'll defend this point anyway because... well... your wrong...

    Dictionaries tend to utilize literal(oh and i know I'll have to explain this... i use literal to mean how they are used in literary work s) meanings... ie the kind used in common speak and not quite what they mean in the scientific fields... open a freaking text book...

    Yukari: good for you... If you believe in god thats great... I don't

    But... I think you can agree that, if god would send a person who followed all of what jesus taught but didn't believe Jesus was a savior to hell... then... is he really a god worthy of being followed?
    Last edited by Luzifer; 06-25-2007 at 11:44 PM.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri has a reputation beyond repute Aesteri's Avatar
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    The god christians or whomever speaks of does seem very petty. They always say "god is forgiving he shows mercy". Yeah right...






    Love the raving rabbids. <3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Anime_Freak7416 View Post
    and Breaeden i did use a dictionary....just not the stupid computer kind..use one ur physically able to touch..it might help
    This thread has now officially bottomed out.

    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breaeden "Luzy" Swordwind View Post
    Yukari: good for you... If you believe in god thats great... I don't

    But... I think you can agree that, if god would send a person who followed all of what jesus taught but didn't believe Jesus was a savior to hell... then... is he really a god worthy of being followed?
    Well yes I do agree with you.

    And why is it that religion the thing that brings out the mean and bad in everything?

    War?

    Shooting in schools?

    It has all been related some how to religion.
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