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Thread: Samurai VS European Knights

  1. #26
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    I go caveman on that one. I hear their skulls were pretty thick.

    Honestly I think that the samurai would be at a severe disadvantage due to equipment. The types of armour worn favor the knights and it has been pointed out that the metal of a knighs sword world generally be of a mich higher quality. So if the swords met with force Mr. Samurai could end up swinging a hilt at his opponent. Not a good look.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkatex
    I wanted just to point out:
    -equipment changes during time
    -you can't compare so easily the samurai with the knights
    -one knight is not equal to another one, as I suppose it is the same case for the samurais
    -geographical and historical coordinates matter/must be named
    And by adding what Diesel said after this again, I suppose you've done your best in the name of truth to properly deteriorate something plain and simple as two generic terms for Knights and Samurais into a fastidious argument on just what a "knight" would be for the different European countries.

    Go you.


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  3. #28
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    i am from europe, but samurai por me. i always been atractive to samurai. they move so fast, with lots of straight anf fire in eyes, but jentle as wind... besides, from istori i know that knights in batle was only two. they from eatch side was sitting on horces back and screaming "kill them!" samurai better
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nokizaru
    And by adding what Diesel said after this again, I suppose you've done your best in the name of truth to properly deteriorate something plain and simple as two generic terms for Knights and Samurais into a fastidious argument on just what a "knight" would be for the different European countries.

    Go you.
    Go me!
    Go me if you think that 'deteriorating something plain and simple' is for you explaining things detailed.
    Go me!

  5. #30
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    I gotta go with samurais. they're much better in my opinion. They use the shadows to keep their enemies in the dark as to where they should strike, or if there is any reason to strike.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voyueristic-Narcissist
    I gotta go with samurais. they're much better in my opinion. They use the shadows to keep their enemies in the dark as to where they should strike, or if there is any reason to strike.
    That's a more classic Ninja style, not samurai.


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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkatex
    Go me!
    Go me if you think that 'deteriorating something plain and simple' is for you explaining things detailed.
    Go me!
    If detail is truth, then your truth is rather vague.

    Your superb truth, or should I say "detail", was no more than a statement saying that there are differences to the term "Knight". Well, aren't you the bright one. There's variations to any goddamn given thing we can think of, just as Diesel pointed out how a Samurai can vary in just time alone. While this topic is absurd already, trying to bring some validity into the context by vaguely stating that there is differences, without even presenting any examples of what those differences is, when it's digressing so much from the topic at hand, which, unless you're as stupid as I think you are, is about nothing else but who all these glorious members of these boards imagine would win a battle about something as unseemingly as a fight between a Samurai and a Knight. If the Knight's a French, Spanish, Teutonic, whatever, does -not- matter more than if the Samurai is from any century between the 6th and 19th century.

    Stick to general terms. Your "details" aren't needed.


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  8. #33
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    OMG!!!1 Oh NOES!! LIEK bOETH kNIGGETS aND sAMURAIS wOULD bE pWNED by fEROCIES VIKENG BEZeRKERS!!11!!1!

    buT lIKE tHEY wOULD gET KILLED BY ORCS OR DRAGENS!!!!!!!11!!!

  9. #34
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    Do you want to know more about the different types of armor in a general view?

    Quote: 'It has been said that while Europeans designed their armor to defeat swords, the Japanese designed their swords to defeat armor. There is a certain truth to this, but its a simplistic view. The better Japanese armor was constructed of small overlapping lacquered metal scales or plates tied together with silk cords in order to specifically resist the slicing cut of the katana. It allowed good freedom of movement while offering excellent protection. But if it got wet, the silk cords soaked up water and it became terribly heavy. Though the earliest styles of samurai armor were designed with large square plates more as a defense against arrows, the later forms were intended primarily to be used by and against similarly equipped swordsmen and to lessen the tremendous cutting capacity of their swords. It was durable, effective, and provided for ample movement[...]

    Medieval European armor was designed and shaped more to deflect strikes and absorb blunt force blows from lances and swords. A knight's armor varied from simple byrnies of fine riveted maile ("chainmaile") that could absorb slices and prevent cuts, to well-padded soft jackets, and metal coats-of-plates which were designed equally to protect from concussion weapons as penetrating thrusts. Maile armor existed in numerous styles and patterns but arguably reached its zenith in 15th century Western Europe, where closely-woven riveted links could resist any drawing slice as well as being proof against many slashes and thrusts from swords. Maile of such equivalent was not used in Japan.'

    Just for those who are really interested in this subject, follow the link above.
    http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm

    AND

    about differences in weaponry for the East and West, and the cause:
    http://www.ceu.hu/medstud/manual/SRM/regions.htm
    Last edited by None of the above; 11-30-2006 at 01:51 PM. Reason: additional information

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkatex
    Do you want to know more about the different types of armor in a general view?

    Quote: 'It has been said that while Europeans designed their armor to defeat swords, the Japanese designed their swords to defeat armor. There is a certain truth to this, but its a simplistic view. The better Japanese armor was constructed of small overlapping lacquered metal scales or plates tied together with silk cords in order to specifically resist the slicing cut of the katana. It allowed good freedom of movement while offering excellent protection. But if it got wet, the silk cords soaked up water and it became terribly heavy. Though the earliest styles of samurai armor were designed with large square plates more as a defense against arrows, the later forms were intended primarily to be used by and against similarly equipped swordsmen and to lessen the tremendous cutting capacity of their swords. It was durable, effective, and provided for ample movement[...]

    Medieval European armor was designed and shaped more to deflect strikes and absorb blunt force blows from lances and swords. A knight's armor varied from simple byrnies of fine riveted maile ("chainmaile") that could absorb slices and prevent cuts, to well-padded soft jackets, and metal coats-of-plates which were designed equally to protect from concussion weapons as penetrating thrusts. Maile armor existed in numerous styles and patterns but arguably reached its zenith in 15th century Western Europe, where closely-woven riveted links could resist any drawing slice as well as being proof against many slashes and thrusts from swords. Maile of such equivalent was not used in Japan.'

    Just for those who are really interested in this subject, follow the link above.
    http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm
    The problem with heavy armor is that they're pathetically vounerable against blunt attacks (such as those from a maul). Mails are designed to divert relatively weak slashing or piercing blows, but the tremendous force of warhammers and their kin will crush them like coke cans. Not to mention the weight will make dodging the blow difficult.

  11. #36
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    That is very interesting. Those details were enlightening, helpful & entertaining.

    Either way, the effectiveness of the armor is being tested against weapons of that region. The samurai armor was not specifically designed to protect against the knights swords and the knights armor was not specifcally designed to protect against the samurais katana. So while its good to do research, I'm not sure if this will help most to formulate an opinion as to who would win. They will still base their answer on who they think is cooler.

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  12. #37
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    -"i think ninjas would Kill them all"

    - i realy think it knights would win because knight though they would be weighed down they would not be hurt as bad also they have a stronger weapon but it would be a dramatic battle
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    Knights would probably own a samurai. Why? Even though samurais have a bit more mobility, the tradeoff is that their armor isn't as good as a knight's. Plus, there is some debate as to the quality of their weapons as well, it seems.

    If a knight rode a horse, then the knight would move faster than a samurai. Then you really wouldn't need mobility all that much. Plus, knights have much stronger armor.

    Who would win? I think a knight would.
    Back..

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkatex
    Do you want to know more about the different types of armor in a general view?

    Quote: 'It has been said that while Europeans designed their armor to defeat swords, the Japanese designed their swords to defeat armor. There is a certain truth to this, but its a simplistic view. The better Japanese armor was constructed of small overlapping lacquered metal scales or plates tied together with silk cords in order to specifically resist the slicing cut of the katana. It allowed good freedom of movement while offering excellent protection. But if it got wet, the silk cords soaked up water and it became terribly heavy. Though the earliest styles of samurai armor were designed with large square plates more as a defense against arrows, the later forms were intended primarily to be used by and against similarly equipped swordsmen and to lessen the tremendous cutting capacity of their swords. It was durable, effective, and provided for ample movement[...]

    Medieval European armor was designed and shaped more to deflect strikes and absorb blunt force blows from lances and swords. A knight's armor varied from simple byrnies of fine riveted maile ("chainmaile") that could absorb slices and prevent cuts, to well-padded soft jackets, and metal coats-of-plates which were designed equally to protect from concussion weapons as penetrating thrusts. Maile armor existed in numerous styles and patterns but arguably reached its zenith in 15th century Western Europe, where closely-woven riveted links could resist any drawing slice as well as being proof against many slashes and thrusts from swords. Maile of such equivalent was not used in Japan.'

    Just for those who are really interested in this subject, follow the link above.
    http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm

    AND

    about differences in weaponry for the East and West, and the cause:
    http://www.ceu.hu/medstud/manual/SRM/regions.htm
    While I commend you on finally bringing something worthwhile into the topic, I don't see how it's in any way a response to what I pointed out about your idea of difference and "detail" in the term "knight" of various European countries. Different types of armor in general had nothing to do with your nonsensical ramblings of truth and details. And while you bring details about equipment compared from the East to the West, I still don't see how this is anything but a digression.

    Bring me the supposed truth you so wanted to add to the topic about how we should be ever so careful not to misuse the term "knight", in fear of how we might mistake a Teutonic knight from a Spanish one! -gasps-


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  15. #40
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    It's funny but I always associated the term Knight with England. When it came to spain I always pictured Conquistadors such as Cortez. Never really gave much thought to the possibility that other european countries had knights.

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    That's it, to put an end to this anime-ish stupidity with samurais, I must now play the hidden third option card to shut you japanophiles up once and for all.

    You have samurai.
    You have Eurpoean Knight.
    I now forcibly add a psychopathic Spetsgruppa V soldier who left the Spetznaz to join Vega Group because it was too wimpy for him who holds a machine gun in his left hand and a rocket launcher in his right

    Crazy Russian commando > stupid samurais and knights

    all problems solved

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mugetsu
    Honestly I think that the samurai would be at a severe disadvantage due to equipment. The types of armour worn favor the knights and it has been pointed out that the metal of a knighs sword world generally be of a mich higher quality. So if the swords met with force Mr. Samurai could end up swinging a hilt at his opponent. Not a good look.
    Indeed, may i enfforce? I've been at a blacksmith in my youth, and i've heard much about the exotic craftsmanship of the nippon.
    The construction of a Katana is by taking ONE chunk of iron, flattening it, twisting it, and enblanketing it within itself.
    The construction of a Longsword, for instance, is by taking a lot of iron sticks (or strings, thicker than wires) and beating them till they merge, anfter wich , they are re-beaten into the sword's shape.
    Although the resulted swords look nice, smooth and shiny on the outside, the twisted shape of the original iron's form remains in the inside. So, when swong against something tough as another sword, the shock propagates differentley within the two swords. The Katana, oringinally made of one piece, fails to amortize the shock, as it propagates through the whole piece with the same force in all it's points. The Longsword's internal "fibres" divide the shock into smaller quantities of force and take it individually, thus, the shock is repelled more efficientley through the whole sword, and it vibrates a tad les than a katana. Then it's just a matter of how great is the shock, and what do you swing it against, if you want to break the Longsword.
    The reason Katana is so overrated is that it is sharpened better, and it was a great symbol in the Japanese culture, wich has been spreaded all around the world, now.
    I, for one, own a claymore; not a real piece of war, though, it weighs about 7 pounds, and the only reason i swing it almost daily, is for building thicker biceps, that impress the ladies on the beach


  18. #43
    The Illusive Man Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac has a reputation beyond repute Fionn Mac's Avatar
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    Aside from bleak chance of "Knight" and a Samurai actually meeting, tactics and strategy would come into play. It would be even more of a stretch to have a single samurai and knight meet each other, as in "Oh hey...lets fight."
    People always see the sword as the primary weapon of every war-torn age. The sword however was mostly a secondary weapon, the last line of defense. The over-dramatic movie knight charging into battle with a blaring sword is a bit unrealistic.
    Spears and bows would decided the majority of battle and the sword would finish it.

    The Knight would have an economic advantage as well as technology.
    And as far as Knights go...Knights are Knights. Every country had some variations, but the "Knight"...a valiant upholder of virture, had generally the same armor and weapons.
    France, England and Spain were just about the most wealthy countries around. They could supply the "Knight" with what he needed. The fact is the Knight existed primarily around those areas...with little variation.
    Far different from the "Barbaric" Scots and Celts (Go Ireland!), who had limited money and armor...yet still drove back many armies.

    So even if the Samurai were better "warriors"...the reality of the matter is that the Knight on paper would win, due to technology and economic backing. Not taking into account the whole heart and soul factor that doesn't factor in to a budget.

    (Oh and for the caveman having a thick skull compared to a modern human...not true. Aside from early humans having more primitive jaw bones, and jutting features...the thickness or density of the skull stayed the same...only increasing the brain case for a larger...well brain. Sorry Anthropology rant there.)
    Last edited by Fionn Mac; 11-30-2006 at 08:58 PM.




  19. #44
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    I say samurai mostly because of their code of honor oh and the armor


  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fionn Mac
    Aside from bleak chance of "Knight" and a Samurai actually meeting, tactics and strategy would come into play. It would be even more of a stretch to have a single samurai and knight meet each other, as in "Oh hey...lets fight."
    People always see the sword as the primary weapon of every war-torn age. The sword however was mostly a secondary weapon, the last line of defense. The over-dramatic movie knight charging into battle with a blaring sword is a bit unrealistic.
    Spears and bows would decided the majority of battle and the sword would finish it.

    The Knight would have an economic advantage as well as technology.
    And as far as Knights go...Knights are Knights. Every country had some variations, but the "Knight"...a valiant upholder of virture, had generally the same armor and weapons.
    France, England and Spain were just about the most wealthy countries around. They could supply the "Knight" with what he needed. The fact is the Knight existed primarily around those areas...with little variation.
    Far different from the "Barbaric" Scots and Celts (Go Ireland!), who had limited money and armor...yet still drove back many armies.

    So even if the Samurai were better "warriors"...the reality of the matter is that the Knight on paper would win, due to technology and economic backing. Not taking into account the whole heart and soul factor that doesn't factor in to a budget.

    (Oh and for the caveman having a thick skull compared to a modern human...not true. Aside from early humans having more primitive jaw bones, and jutting features...the thickness or density of the skull stayed the same...only increasing the brain case for a larger...well brain. Sorry Anthropology rant there.)
    The european soldiers and knights also commonly used Axes. This is because swordplay requires a great amount of training and skill, and Axes are pretty much self-explanatory about how to use. You swing with it, you bash with it, and you sometimes throw it.

    Now just for agreeing, I would like to add something. No matter how good of a warrior a Samurai is, the fact that the Knight has armor that is meant to take multiple sword blows does not change. The best way to pierce the armor is actually by stabing with a sword and bashing with a blunt weapon of a sort. Unfortunately for the Samurai, the Katana was made for slashing, not stabing.

    P.S. The Samurai's code of honor isn't really "honor" if you ask me. They kill themselves if they lose in battle and survive anyways, claiming that they can't live with the shame. It seems that the Knights code of honor was a bit more true, since what they did actually did benifit the people for the most part.
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  21. #46
    Senior Member Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome! has a reputation beyond repute Niome!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Deceiver
    In my opinion i like then both equally, each again have their over advantages and disadvatages on a battlefeild. Some samurai can easily kill Knights, while some knights can easily kill samurai, To me its more on a matter of skill level in combat.
    A low experianced samurai who has not witnessed/participated in many battles could NOT kill a well experianced knight, same goes for the knight. But still both can have extremly cool looks so my side is, both PWN! yay smilies
    I don't believe any of that, I still say equipment comes foremost between two lower skilled opponents nevertheless involving these two.

    That's just to open-a-gap statement to be proven anyway..
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  22. #47
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    While I commend you on finally bringing something worthwhile into the topic, I don't see how it's in any way a response to what I pointed out about your idea of difference and "detail" in the term "knight" of various European countries. Different types of armor in general had nothing to do with your nonsensical ramblings of truth and details. And while you bring details about equipment compared from the East to the West, I still don't see how this is anything but a digression.

    Bring me the supposed truth you so wanted to add to the topic about how we should be ever so careful not to misuse the term "knight", in fear of how we might mistake a Teutonic knight from a Spanish one! -gasps-
    Just so you know, he asked you a question following a statement of it.

    But I think overall your taking this to seriously, ain't bringing much to the discussion..

    Anyway.. if a Katana slashes a Knight's armor, it's going to do nothing correct so what's the point then of the Samurai slashing him when it will cut through nothing and the Knight can bash, slash, thrust, pierce into anywhere of the Samurai and kill him.

    A Katana can't thrust especially durable armor or it's going to snap and dull beyond unbelievably.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat
    That's it, to put an end to this anime-ish stupidity with samurais, I must now play the hidden third option card to shut you japanophiles up once and for all.

    You have samurai.
    You have Eurpoean Knight.
    I now forcibly add a psychopathic Spetsgruppa V soldier who left the Spetznaz to join Vega Group because it was too wimpy for him who holds a machine gun in his left hand and a rocket launcher in his right

    Crazy Russian commando > stupid samurais and knights

    all problems solved
    I'll see your Russian Commando and raise you a Big Boss.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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  24. #49
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    Hmm well Knight obviously. A knight had better technolgical warfare on his side when samurai had sword light armour, antlers, and a sword. Knight can wip out a cannon. Knights can be decked out with heavy armour. They had the catapult. Was it them that created the flamming arrow? Prob not. Now if you went furthre into knight hood like spainard conquistadors, well they had da big guns.

    Hey if you want to kill a samurai, pin them in a corner and they would have to kill themselves. Yeah smaruais were really high in respect and would take the oath of sepuku (ritual suicide.) I think this might have started in the sengoku period. Maybe earlyier. I forget. But in battle if a samurai was pinned and could not do anything well they would kill themselves.

  25. #50
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    i say samurai are better than european knights
    kenshin kicked there butts

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