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Thread: 関西弁やねん!・京ことばどすぇ

  1. #1
    Junior Member Chii_Chobit will become famous soon enough Chii_Chobit will become famous soon enough Chii_Chobit's Avatar
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    Default 関西弁やねん!・京ことばどすぇ

    I thought, instead of sitting around talking about 大塚 愛 Lets learn some japanese!! 
    関西弁 Is the dialect spoken tot he west of 東京 In the region Called 関西/近畿 
    (of course there are numerous dialects on the path from tokyo to kansai)
    For your interest 東京弁 and 標準語 Do have small differences, but this is only in intonation and slang.

    Now, back to kansai-ben, theres three variants:
    京ことば (kyouto dialect)
    大阪弁(osakan dialect)
    伊勢弁 (ise dialect)
    =京ことば Wasnt actually always like kansai-ben, in fact, it was at one time completely different, but thats died out in recent years. its is the nicest sounding of all 3 variants.
    大阪弁 is standard kansai-ben
    伊勢弁 Is the harshest.

    okay enough, chitter chatter lets learn some kansai-ben(and hopefully i ll get to kyou-kotoba, its a really nice dialect)

    Edit: What you need to know though, is that pure osaka-ben is alll but gone, and whith the standard dialect being enforced on everyone, most people from kansai speak with a mix of standard and kansai, SO I WILL ONLY POST GRAMMARS STILL COMMONLY USED.
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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    Lets start with most kansai-ben things still being used:


    this is the kansai version of だ(to be) : や  
    so in that case:

    Standard  Kansai
    だ=     や
    だった=   やった 
    だろう=   やろ 
    だけど=   やけど・せやけど 
    だから=   やから・せやから
    じゃない=  やない   

    The polite form of だ 、です In kansai is rendered だ And is conjugated the same way as it is in standard japanese.

    ~ている In kansai-ben is rendered ~とる Or to be more polite ~てんねん 
    関西弁: 志穂はん、うちたべとんねん! 標準語: 志穂さん、あたし食べてんのよ!
    When used with ねん とる Becomes とん (We'll go into this rule later) 



    やん is 関西弁 For じゃん 
    ねん。 This has to be the most kansai thing you ll ever hear!! its equivalent to のだよ 
    Last edited by Chii_Chobit; 11-18-2006 at 01:42 PM.
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

  3. #3
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    osaka/kansai ben is my favourite ben ^^

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    Spammers busted:

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    Ah, my favourite ben is tokyo-ben and then nagoya (and for anyone who didnt read the first post, yes there is some difference in tokyo ben and hyoujungo)

    dont let anyone tell you the past tense is ~て・たん! Thats all but dead. 
    The past tense and te form is interesting for verbs ending with う(Ex. 会う) 

    they follow a simple pattern: first make tokyo te form:
    もらう= もらって
    Now change っ To ー: 
    もらーて
    And change the vowel before ー To お 
    もろーて

    today, this is still used, but it is fading. you best just stick to tokyo te form until you are use to kansai-ben 
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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    These are some particles still sued in modern kansai-ben (so dont bash for ones i didnt include)

    な=ね 
    もん=Unisex. emphasized/complanitory のだ 
    なん=なのだ
    わ= Unisex. Explanitory よ 
    で= Its like a cross between よ And ぜ、Excpet its not as outdated and rude as ぜ

    There, now i just need to get a vocab list, and then i ll get to kyou-kotoba (kyouto-ben)
    wordlist:
    http://www.nihongoresources.com/lang.../wordlist.html

    dont use all of them! remember, pure kansai-ben doesnt exist anymore
    (a word not included there is メンコイ which means: kawaii)
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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    I forgot to include some things:

    the negative form is made with へん 

    食べない= 食べへん 
    食べなかった= 食べへんかった 

    しない= しやへん 
    来ない=けーへん 


    For the volitional, drop the extra う 

    行こう= 行こ


    来よう Becomes こう And しよう Becomes しょ 

    ~ましょう Becomes ~まひょ
    Last edited by Chii_Chobit; 11-19-2006 at 12:30 PM.
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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    You have no idea how much you just helped me out.

    I moved to Japan 2 months ago from America for an exchange program for a year. I live and go to school in Kyoto and go to church in Osaka every weekend, so I'm surrounded by Kansai-ben all the time (and have yet to understand it). Today, I kept hearing 分からへん from my friends at church. I've heard it a lot and could guess at the meaning, but it never clicked that it was Kansai-ben; I just thought I hadn't learned it yet.

    Now I know that they're just saying 分からない to me. And can now answer accordingly

    ありがとう!

    Or should I say おおきに!

    (You should say something about that one. I hear it in stores all the time. I think it's particularly funny when they say ありがとうございました!おおきに!ありがとう! I love Japan.)

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    How come I can't see the Japanese words?

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    there are few more things i forgot to include:

    け= sort of like かい bring contracted to けー in 東京弁, but its not that rude. so lets just put it at a colloquial form of か

    ん= You know how women use の Instead of のだ In tokyo right? well this is just a unisex contraction of it

    i-Mizenkei

    goodness! i never knew how useful french could be, being canadian and such. i found an excellent site on kansai-ben in french! now this was something thats been confusing me for ages:

    ichidan verbs (you know the ones that drop their ~ru) are divided into to categories ~いる and ~える So ones ending in ~iru, when changing to the NEGATIVE form have a bit of a conjugation: 

    東京    関西

    見ない  みーひん 
    いない  いーひん  
    (できない→ できひん)

    you extend the vowel and add ~hin.ok so maybe i cant move onto kyoto ben yet.
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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    京ことば(京都弁) 

    Finally! Like last time, lets go over what really makes you sound kyotoish first: 

    ~とん 

    This how the kyotoites say ~ている (Thier pretty high in o and u sounds) 

    何しとん(のん)? 

    どす 

    This is that fading copula from kyoto that people find so pretty. let se how it works: 

    です= どす 
    でした= どした 
    でしょう= どっしゃろ (Didnt see that coming did you) 

    じゃない= Most people will just やない 

    (Informally, normal kansai や Is good) 

    The rape of ~はる: 

    はる Is a polite suffix throughout kansai, but in kyoto its somewhere between informal and 丁寧語(Sort of like using the passive more than usual is polite) It attaches to the pre-negative form: 

    読まれる= 読まはる 
    食べられる= 食べはる  

    the Negatives for する And 来る Are different from osaka standard: 

    東京  大阪     京都 
    しない しやへん   しーひん 
    来ない けぇーへん  きぃーひん 

    And using え Instead of 大阪s で Is common in kyoto too, but this arguably more used by women (So its like わよ) 

    Phew! thats just the basics of kyotoben! bye i have to go to school now, i ll get to the rest of it later!
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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    Adjective form contraction, this important when attaching ~おす Adjectives (learn it later) and for adverbs (though using standard adverbs is allowed too)

    This is only for ~i adjectives:

    Stems ending in [あい]高い(たかい)→高う(たこう)
    Stems ending in [いい]→ゆう  欲しい(ほしい)→欲しゅう かわいい→ かわゆう
    Stems ending in [うい]→ 「うう」 薄い(うすい)→薄う(うすう)
    Stems ending in [えい]→  (No modern usage)
    Stems ending in [おい]→「おう」 遅い(おそい)→遅う(おそう )

    To make adjectives polite add おす To the above forms:

    高いです→ たこうおす 


    THIS IS BECAUSE YOU CANNOT USE どす WITH ADJECTIVES!  
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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    めちゃめちゃ楽しい! ありがと~!

    私のこんやくしゃは大学の時に大阪に住みました彼はいつも大阪ベン話す。しかし、私の好きなべんは群馬ベン 。 そうだんべ!

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    あ、そうなのか? 

    あら、婚約者?あたしの先輩だねぇ~。

    あたしの一番好きな方言は~東京弁以外?だから、京都弁です。

    何しとったのん? 

    (でも、千葉弁もメンコイやん~)
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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    Ok, almost done.

    はる Should only be used when talking about some one else, not about yourself

    のん= Tokyo's の? Particle. This was once the replacement of kansai ねん But now this just functions as の?


    ておくれやす= This is simply ~てください

    なはれ= Kyouto for ~なさい

    ~たはる= Politer way of saying ~ている
     
    にゃ= This is less formal than ねん。 Though ねん Is always used in osaka, にゃ Is a contraction of んや Whereas ねん Is んだよ (んやで)

    All that leaves is some vocab (Because my word source is not appropriate for someone who does not know about kyoutoben)
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

  15. #15
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    ~てんか= Adding ~んか To the te form is the same as saying ~てくれる。 Less formal than ください
    おくない Is another way to say kudsai, and is slightly less formal and can be used with nouns (as in これをください= これ おくない)

    よーいわんわ= I am astounded 
    あんなーへー=あのねえ
    まぁ、じゅんさいなこと=That is irresponisble of you 
    これなんぼ?=How much is this?
    あんたいけずやわ~=You are teasing me! 
    ほな、いてさんじます=では、行って参ります
    いやかなんわー=いやですよ
    おいでやす=いらっしゃい 
    おやかまっさんどした=おじゃましました
    きずつないことやわぁ=That makes me uncomfortable 
    いーやだいじおへん=No problem 
    あかしまへん=だめです
    どんくさいなーもー=You are slow ^^ 


    ほんに= 本当に 
    しんどい=大変 
    おいでやす=いらっしゃいませ!
    ~はん= ~さん 
    あこ= あそこ 
    てったう=手伝う
    ぬくい=暖かい
    いやぁ= うわぁ 
    ええ=いい 
    たんと=たくさん 
    なんぼ=いくら 
    おいど=お尻 
    ちっこい=小さい
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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    この文を分かってみましょうか:

    (京都人)a:何しとったのん?あ、分かった読んどったなぁ~。あんなーへー、私の宿題、してんかぁ?めっ ちゃ難しゅうおすぇ!あれっ!あんた、聞いとんねん?! 
    (東京人)b:ウゼー!ブズ!  
    (京都人)a:いやっ!何ゆうたにゃ?しんどい~ t-t
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chii_Chobit
    there are few more things i forgot to include:

    け= sort of like かい bring contracted to けー in 東京弁, but its not that rude. so lets just put it at a colloquial form of か

    ん= You know how women use の Instead of のだ In tokyo right? well this is just a unisex contraction of it

    i-Mizenkei

    goodness! i never knew how useful french could be, being canadian and such. i found an excellent site on kansai-ben in french! now this was something thats been confusing me for ages:

    ichidan verbs (you know the ones that drop their ~ru) are divided into to categories ~いる and ~える So ones ending in ~iru, when changing to the NEGATIVE form have a bit of a conjugation: 

    東京    関西

    見ない  みーひん 
    いない  いーひん  
    (できない→ できひん)

    you extend the vowel and add ~hin.ok so maybe i cant move onto kyoto ben yet.
     

    the Highlighted part is wrong. for some reason a kansai native is using kanazawa-ben words. must have like a parent from kanazawa or somethin'.
    小栗 旬様★
    イケメン大~好き、でもバカな男ゴキブリより嫌いだよぉ~
    スキップ♪ Its one girly day♥

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