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Thread: Flag Burning

  1. #1
    Senior Member Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy has a reputation beyond repute Middy's Avatar
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    Default Flag Burning

    I was wondering what the general opinion here was on the topic of flag burning? Should it be legal?? Should it be banned? Why or why not.

    I believe that flag burning should be legal due to the fact that the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States states that: "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech"
    Burning a flag is an expression of one's opinion and therefore your right to burn the flag is protected by the First Amendment.
    Another point to consider is the fact that if a flag burning ban were passed it would still be perfectly legal to burn the flag out of respect. So..In fact, the ban is not persecuting those who burn flags, only those who do so out of protest. This means that the law would be directed not at the actual act of burning.. But the thought behind it. A scary thought that the government might soon be persecuting you for thinking badly of America. The American Flag is a symbol of freedom.. And I strongly believe that we therefore have the right to burn said flag.. In fact I believe the act to be patriotic. Its a display of the continuing freedoms offered here in America. To ban flag burning would be fundementally altering the Constitution and all that it stands for.

    Thats how I feel.. How bout you??

  2. #2
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    You have a point, you know. I kinda agree. but you know... this country is no longer free. More laws, more restrictions, more rules to protect those whose feelings might get hurt because of WORDS. There's no such thing as freedom of speech any more. This country is getting closer and closer to anarchy. It's only a matter of time before this evil empire implodes in upon itself.

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    I didn't even read what anyone has to say, because I really don't care.
    I think burning a flag is the biggest slap in the face to a country that has given you so much.
    Since it's a free a country, we have the right to burn its flag right? I guess you do, and you can also tell somone to go to hell after they do you a favor



  4. #4
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    If you dislike a country enough to burn its flag, then find another place to live. Move down south, or up north. Or east, or west. Seriously. If you hate the government in which you're ruled by, leave. One less whiny citizen makes no difference. If you're not willing to understand the blood that was shed in the name of freedom, then leave.

    I'm highly patriotic; many people in my family have risked their lives defending America's flag. The United States is a whole lot better place to live than most of the world; if you don't like it, then leave.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ami~chan
    If you dislike a country enough to burn its flag, then find another place to live. Move down south, or up north. Or east, or west. Seriously. If you hate the government in which you're ruled by, leave. One less whiny citizen makes no difference. If you're not willing to understand the blood that was shed in the name of freedom, then leave.

    I'm highly patriotic; many people in my family have risked their lives defending America's flag. The United States is a whole lot better place to live than most of the world; if you don't like it, then leave.
    Right there with you, and I'm sure alot of other people agree



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    I don't care if other people do it. I do think it's HIGHLY disrespectful. However, I am not one of those who would burn a flag.

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    If you dislike a country enough to burn its flag, then find another place to live. Move down south, or up north. Or east, or west. Seriously. If you hate the government in which you're ruled by, leave. One less whiny citizen makes no difference. If you're not willing to understand the blood that was shed in the name of freedom, then leave.

    I'm highly patriotic; many people in my family have risked their lives defending America's flag. The United States is a whole lot better place to live than most of the world; if you don't like it, then leave.
    I highly agree with you.


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  8. #8
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    flag burning is like spitting in the face of all the people who worked to make there country a better place. ive had friends that have gone into the military and whenever i see jerks burning the flag i am furious! my friends did NOT go over there and risk there lives for ungrateful little brats. sure there are bad people that are part of the country but bad people live in this world. get over it.

    man its like in school: if a couple students are acting bad the teacher punishes the whole class to get at those couple of students.

    ARGH!!!!!! yeah i feel a tad strongly about this subject
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    I'm patriotic and I would die for this country. On the other hand I have no use for symbolism, you can burn it or leave it, just make sure it's your flag.

    Also, since I remember posting in a flag burning topic before, be sure to comply with all safety ordinances first. Burning cities I have a problem with.
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  10. #10
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    I too am patriotic and I doubt that I would ever burn a flag. But the people who have died defending America did so because they wanted to protect your freedom. To allow abunch of stingy politicians to take away your freedom of expression would be disrespectful to all those who have stood up for this country.

    If you dislike a country enough to burn its flag, then find another place to live. Move down south, or up north. Or east, or west. Seriously. If you hate the government in which you're ruled by, leave. One less whiny citizen makes no difference. If you're not willing to understand the blood that was shed in the name of freedom, then leave.

    I'm highly patriotic; many people in my family have risked their lives defending America's flag. The United States is a whole lot better place to live than most of the world; if you don't like it, then leave.
    I understand perfectly well why blood was shed in the name of freedom.. I believe it is you who does not. A government that does not allow whiny citizens to to whine about issues is NOT a democracy and NOT the country that so many people have shed blood to defend. I feel very strongly on this because I know many people who have sacrificed for America, and I can't stand to see it go to waste on a country that is attempting to supress the expressions of the people.

  11. #11
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    What a pointless waste of a match. And a flag.



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    I dont have a problem with the freedom of speech but I think some people abuse it too much. A friend of mine is in the army and he says he is (among other rights) also defending the country so people will also have the right to protest without the fear of being shot or flogged by the army of another country.


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    ehh everyone has good points. We do have our rights and its everyone has the right to express them or not. the kkk have rights also, they have freedom of assembly and the freedom of speach. (not that I support them) but anywayz if someone wants to burn a flag, thats their business. What they do in their free time or even how they feel about the country is their business and i think that we should respect that.



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    The only time a Flag should or could be burned legally and properly, is when that flag is frayed, falling apart and cannot be saved.

    In the miltary, they have a proper way of sending Old Glory to its final resting place. First, they have a chaplain come out and say the "The Last Rites" to the old, frailed flag, then they put the flag in a brand new, tin barrel and set it on fire. While the flag is being burned..a bugeler comes out and plays Taps, to honor and respect the Old Flag.

    At least, that's how it's done in the military. I don't know how it's done in the civilian sector..but that's how I saw it done when we were stationed at a base.
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  15. #15
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    As someone who spent four years in the Military, I feel that the flag is regarded far too highly as the symbol that it is. I felt like it was ridiculous to the point of idol worship. If you don't stand up and salute as the flag is going up or down, then you are the worst person ever! You get a lecture akin to if you had just stolen $900 from your mother's purse, and she caught you.
    As I was growing up, I always felt strange, reciting the pledge of alliegance, pledging to the flag. Sure, the flag is a symbol of our country, but I have no alliegance to this symbol. I am loyal to my country. If the flag touches the ground, I did not insult my country. I just accidentally dropped the flag!
    If someone wants to burn the flag, because they feel they are making some statement, well so be it. That's what I was defending the country to protect. I may have some things to say to them about feeling that way about the country that protects them, but it's their right to feel how they want to feel, no matter how stupid it is, and to express their feelings in any way that doesn't hurt other people.

    But I agree, if you feel so strongly against the country, why don't you just leave? Nobody's forcing you to stay here.


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    Burning the flag improperly already IS illegal.

    As has already been said, it is only legal if the flag touches the ground, or is tattered, or faded. Or some combination of those.

    Also, as has been said, if you are giong to burn the flag in such a stupid way, why don't you go live somewhere else? Burning the flag doesn't fall under free speech, it falls under breaking the law for a few reasons.
    1. You'd be potentially inciting a riot if you were to be in the street burning a flag on a stick, whether the rioters supported you or not.
    2. As a symbol of a "united country" there are just some toes you shouldn't step on, and burning the flag in such a manner steps on the toes of a lot of people who hold it dear to their hearts for various reasons, and that includes myself.

    So, whining about how your freedom of speech is being stunted because you can't burn a symbol of our nation is rather silly, don't you think?

    Further more....

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Rider
    I too am patriotic and I doubt that I would ever burn a flag. But the people who have died defending America did so because they wanted to protect your freedom. To allow abunch of stingy politicians to take away your freedom of expression would be disrespectful to all those who have stood up for this country.
    If you are so damn patriotic, you shouldn't want to, or have anyone else in this country allowed to be able to burn the flag.

    Also...


    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Rider
    I understand perfectly well why blood was shed in the name of freedom.. I believe it is you who does not. A government that does not allow whiny citizens to to whine about issues is NOT a democracy and NOT the country that so many people have shed blood to defend. I feel very strongly on this because I know many people who have sacrificed for America, and I can't stand to see it go to waste on a country that is attempting to supress the expressions of the people.
    Good thing we don't live in a Democracy, huh? We live in a Democratic Republic. Look up the difference, or ask someone around you that knows, because obviously you don't. And besides that, living in a Democracy would mean that everyone votes on everything, not that you are guaranteed everything and anything you want, or want to do. If everyone in a democratic nation voted [by majority] that burning of the national/state flag(s) was illegal, it would be illegal, and that would be that and it wouldn't make that nation any less of a democracy.

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    Im not going to get to far into this, but I will say this:
    Burning the flag is like burning the Bible. You may not believe in it, but there are thousands who do. Would you want someone to burn something your strongly believe in?

    And Im done

  18. #18
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    I think its our write to hate the country we live in. So burn the damn flag if you want. Just don't do it in public

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaruDashi
    Im not going to get to far into this, but I will say this:
    Burning the flag is like burning the Bible. You may not believe in it, but there are thousands who do. Would you want someone to burn something your strongly believe in?

    And Im done
    Bringing up the Bible isn't a very good argument against burning stuff people feel strongly about, seeing as how the church on repeated occations burnt people who disbelieved the Bible.

    Unless you personally persuaded someone into fighting for your country, you don't owe them squat. You can't be held accountable for their beliefs or actions. People choose to die for all sorts of silly reasons, the fact that they do doesen't make you somehow in debt to them to agree with them or respect their cause.
    Last edited by Eris; 10-16-2006 at 12:56 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kishiro
    Good thing we don't live in a Democracy, huh? We live in a Democratic Republic. Look up the difference, or ask someone around you that knows, because obviously you don't. And besides that, living in a Democracy would mean that everyone votes on everything, not that you are guaranteed everything and anything you want, or want to do. If everyone in a democratic nation voted [by majority] that burning of the national/state flag(s) was illegal, it would be illegal, and that would be that and it wouldn't make that nation any less of a democracy.
    Semantics don't suit you.

    USA is a democracy, just not in its purest form. A democratic republic is still a form of democracy. We still have a say in all of our laws. That's what the nation was founded on, so his point still stands.

    I think the main point he was trying to make was not about democracy specifically, but that it violates the right to free speech which is an inherent part of a democratic government.
    Last edited by Regex; 10-16-2006 at 01:03 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Jack of Blades~ View Post
    Because evaporation is a ninja ...so you can't see it =o
    You know it's true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselmannen
    Bringing up the Bible isn't a very good argument against burning stuff people feel strongly about, seeing as how the church on repeated occations burnt people who disbelieved the Bible.

    Unless you personally persuaded someone into fighting for your country, you don't owe them squat. You can't be held accountable for their beliefs or actions. People choose to die for all sorts of silly reasons, the fact that they do doesen't make you somehow in debt to them to agree with them or respect their cause.
    I brought up the Bible simply because people believe strongly in it. Would the Koran suit you better? Or maybe a statue of Buddah? My point was that its was that it holds great meaning, and burning it is a slap in the face towards everyone who hold it dear to them.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselmannen
    Unless you personally persuaded someone into fighting for your country, you don't owe them squat. You can't be held accountable for their beliefs or actions. People choose to die for all sorts of silly reasons, the fact that they do doesen't make you somehow in debt to them to agree with them or respect their cause.
    By being a citizen of your country, the soldiers are doing a service to you. It's general courtesy that you owe them some amount of gratitude, as much as if someone were to stop a person from punching you in the face. Sure, you very well could have wanted to have a punched face, but most people don't, and the protector was intending to help you in a way that most human beings would appreciate. Especially if there were a group of people punching many people in the face, and most of the others did not want their faces punched.

    Courtesy would dictate that you should be grateful for the attempt. If you don't care for that type of protection, then logically, you should move to a country where that protection isn't provided.
    Last edited by Regex; 10-16-2006 at 01:40 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Jack of Blades~ View Post
    Because evaporation is a ninja ...so you can't see it =o
    You know it's true.

    You leave a glass of water, turn your back and WH-WH-WH-WH-WHAM! You've got 5 shurikens in your back.

  23. #23
    4: [Classified brah] Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regex
    By being a citizen of your country, the soldiers are doing a service to you. Courtesy would dictate that you owe them some amount of gratitude, as much as if someone were to stop a person from punching you in the face. Sure, you very well could have wanted to have a punched face, but most people don't, and the protector was intending to help you in a way that most human beings would appreciate.

    Courtesy would dictate that you should be grateful for the attempt. If you don't care for that type of protection, then logically, you should move to a country where that protection isn't provided.
    I never asked for their protection, and it is their choice (unless they were drafted, in that case they have my pity). When a solider of my country kills someone, I kill someone by merely being a citizen. They make me a murderer, and I am expected to be greatful for this "service"?

    In a democracy, "move to another country" is a terribly flawed argument. In a democracy, if you don't like the system you are expected to get up and change it. If you don't, you're doing your country a great disfavor.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselmannen
    I never asked for their protection, and it is their choice (unless they were drafted, in that case they have my pity). When a solider of my country kills someone, I kill someone by merely being a citizen. They make me a murderer, and I am expected to be greatful for this "service"?

    In a democracy, "move to another country" is a terribly flawed argument. In a democracy, if you don't like the system you are expected to get up and change it. If you don't, you're doing your country a great disfavor.
    It's incorrect to call it murder when it's in defense of your country.

    But in a democracy, you can't change it alone. You need the support of many others. If you find that most people disagree with you, you won't be able to change it. That's not flawed to suggest that you move to a country where you agree more with the governing body (i.e. the citizens). Especially when the soldiers are fighting to protect the freedoms that you have. Again, if you wanted to have your face punched, you can try to stand up for your right to have someone punch you in the face, but everyone else would say that they enjoy that anti-face-punching protection. Chances are, the people protecting you from the face punchers would ask that you stop whining about the service they are providing, and either accept that your face is not likely to be punched, or go someplace outside of their protection, so they can continue protecting the people who want it.

    If everyone stood up and said "No thanks guys, please, just let them punch us" then they would probably back off and let you get punched. But how likely is that to happen?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Jack of Blades~ View Post
    Because evaporation is a ninja ...so you can't see it =o
    You know it's true.

    You leave a glass of water, turn your back and WH-WH-WH-WH-WHAM! You've got 5 shurikens in your back.

  25. #25
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    i say let them burn the danm flag if it makes em feal all high and mighty jeez its just a stupid piec of clothe that has desghns(sp) on it there not killing anyone so who cares? bit harmless and i dont see why peole make such a big fuss about it that just what i think anyways
    im a proud furry =3 you dun like it? kiss muh furry but!! D:<

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