VS Matchup: Sephiroth vs Darth Vader

[Alice Lost]

In the game Final Fantacy VII, It takes a lot to kill any character in the game. The movie took it further and made it possable for characters to survive gunshots and explosions. I think the fight would end with a draw.

[Bothersome Fool]

I'll go with Sephiroth. I see both as equal in physical and (let's call it all) spiritual abilities. While Vader may have a slight advantage in force power, Sephiroth has the advantage of variety and (being SOLDIER) knowing how to apply all in an efficiently combined manner (AC disappointed me). Vader does things out of emotion, like all Sith. Sephiroth, while murderous, never caught me as insane, just caught in moral relativism. Jenova and he were superior to all other lifeforms on Earth (Yes, it was Earth if you watch the sequence for supernova) in his mind, and so, Sephiroth believed that he could become a god. Sephiroth also has the advantage of special attacks, like Heartless Angel (which steals all but 1 HP, which, read as real energy, borders on death), and split second teleportation, that (being special attacks and all) require no MP. Heartless Angel, in a way, is the same as draining the health and force in the star wars universe, just far better. If Sephiroth had cast reflect in the beginning of the fight, then force powers would no longer work on him, while still allowing him to cast his own magic, and limiting Vader to support powers. If Sephiroth could use Silence, the fight would end right there. Also Death and Ultima would end it if Sephiroth had time to cast those. There'd be very little physical fighting, though if Vader did the typical star wars saber technique, Darth Vader, not Sephiroth, would be the one without a weapon. Just one fire spell (yes, poor Anakin, it had to be fire) cast at the right time would knock it away just long enough.

[Grim Scythe]

I'll go with Sephiroth. I see both as equal in physical and (let's call it all) spiritual abilities. While Vader may have a slight advantage in force power, Sephiroth has the advantage of variety and (being SOLDIER) knowing how to apply all in an efficiently combined manner (AC disappointed me). Vader does things out of emotion, like all Sith. Sephiroth, while murderous, never caught me as insane, just caught in moral relativism. Jenova and he were superior to all other lifeforms on Earth (Yes, it was Earth if you watch the sequence for supernova) in his mind, and so, Sephiroth believed that he could become a god. Sephiroth also has the advantage of special attacks, like Heartless Angel (which steals all but 1 HP, which, read as real energy, borders on death), and split second teleportation, that (being special attacks and all) require no MP. Heartless Angel, in a way, is the same as draining the health and force in the star wars universe, just far better. If Sephiroth had cast reflect in the beginning of the fight, then force powers would no longer work on him, while still allowing him to cast his own magic, and limiting Vader to support powers. If Sephiroth could use Silence, the fight would end right there. Also Death and Ultima would end it if Sephiroth had time to cast those. There'd be very little physical fighting, though if Vader did the typical star wars saber technique, Darth Vader, not Sephiroth, would be the one without a weapon. Just one fire spell (yes, poor Anakin, it had to be fire) cast at the right time would knock it away just long enough.

yea um spells wouldnt affect the force if either were real
like i said vader could end it by just pinching a few arteries in the brain to kill sephiroth.period.dot.done.

[asian_brad]

yea um spells wouldnt affect the force if either were real
like i said vader could end it by just pinching a few arteries in the brain to kill sephiroth.period.dot.done.

That doesn't make any sense, since when has he done that before? I mean really!

[Balance]

yea um spells wouldnt affect the force if either were real
like i said vader could end it by just pinching a few arteries in the brain to kill sephiroth.period.dot.done.

Well, first off, when in the world did Darth Vader do anything like that? Even so, would that be his style? We all know that Darth Vader likes to choke people, and make them die in front of him, seeing the death in progress. Even if Darth Vader does pinch the arteries in the brain, it won't work, because it's just a form of Sephiroth in Jenova's Cells. In other words, he'll just regenerate them. Or he doesn't even have to. All Sephiroth is doing is controlling anything that inhabits the Jenova cells within them. (With the exception of Cloud, he can't live without Cloud).

[Bothersome Fool]

Okay, but if magic has no effect on the force, than it follows that force can't effect magic. If so, what stops Sephiroth from just using Death, which has the same effect, or as I said, Stop (I could just see Vader confused about why Sephy has his lightsaber.) You'd need one hell of a force push (or pull) to even unbalance Sephiroth, who could, even if the push was strong enough to throw him, teleport out of it's path. By the way, the only place I've seen Vader himself able to use force speed is Battlefront 2, and he was still slower than Sephiroth by a lot. If you look at force, it has few significantly practical uses. Push, Pull, Choke, Lightning, Speed, Jump, and several mind-based techniques (Sephiroth never struck me as having a weak intellect, what with all the worshippers under his control, dying for no real reason as they walked to the northern cave). There are more attack, support, and status inflicting magics than there are useful force abilities, but we'll rule out summoning, since that isn't Sephiroth's style.

[GreenVI]

Wait a sec. Do Force attacks work on people from outside the Star Wars Galaxy? Are the Jedi and Sith able to use the Force outside the Star Wars Galaxy?

Well it really depends on the factor is the force strong enough to work on Sephiroth. I mean of course it'll do something but will do enough? All of you newer supporters should read all of the previous post. Oh and yes the force will work on Sephiroth. The lightsaber thing on the other hand I hyave no idea if it'll cut the Masume into pieces or just deflect off it. After all the Masume is enhanced by magic so I personally think it would be able to stand against the lightsaber.

Please state some references.

I'd like an answer from somebody who really knows Star Wars.

[asian_brad]

One of my concernces is that is Sephiroth faster than Vader? I think so, don't give me force acceleration crap it doesn't exist. Have you how fast Sephiroth fights and compare to how Vader fights...better to how fast Anakin fights! In the movies he fights pretty fast, but not as fast as Sephiroth fights in the games and movie.

[Gnosis]

I did not have time to read the entire argument, and know very little about Sephiroth. That being said, I believe Sephiroth would win.

I have seen Darth Vader in the Star Wars films, and do not see anything deadly about him. Sure he has the Force-Choke, but if his Force powers were that strong, he would have easily defeated Luke on Bespin. He could have simple lifted him in the air, and thrown him into the freezing chamber. At this time Luke would not have been able to counter his Force Power, as Luke's was weak at the time. If Darth Vader has such great Force Powers, why does he not use them? Instead of the force, he relies on the lightsaber as his main weapon. He is also very clumsy with a lightsaber. He acts as if it weighs as much as a medieval sword.

[Grim Scythe]

haha
you ask me when these things have been done?
who cares its all speculation on a fictional fight between fictional characters

[asian_brad]

Even it's a fiction character vs another fiction character you still have to look oblivious physics... and common sense.

[-Batman-]

I've decided to stay out of this argument because it's going no where...But this just had to be brought up.

but if his Force powers were that strong, he would have easily defeated Luke on Bespin.

No. Did you even pay attention during the movies? VADER DID NOT WANT TO KILL LUKE. He wanted Luke to JOIN him. Besides, Vader beat the crap out of luke. Or did you not see all the bruises...And last I remembered, luke walked away from that battle with one less hand then when he entered.

The same thing can be said about Sephiroth. If he were so stong, how come he couldn't defeat cloud in advent children?
Simple answer.
Vader is a villian.
Sephiroth is a villian.

The villian always loses, the hero always wins, good prevails, and the darkness fades. That is the general law of crap.

Also, Luke is stronger in the force than Vader. Remember, they ARE father and son.

[MistaCloudStrife]

Eh.. This battle is pretty unfair.

Jenova vs Vader would be a much better matchup. Sephiroth was just a puppet of Jenova anyways, so having Sephiroth and Vader fight is basically just having a very small portion(a small bit of her cells to make Sephiroth stronger and to influence him) of Jenova's power fight Vader.

[-Shinigami-]

Well Darth Vader will win Sephiroth. Like more than 5 people in this thread mentioned, Darth Vader can simply use the force to keep Sephiroth away. Even without the force, Vader has immense lightsaber skills.

[Frost Alchemist]

i say sephiroth he ruled in ff and kh1&2

[Anquietas]

It is a tough call but to say Vader would win because of the Force or his lightsaber would be not be true. First a lightsaber does NOT cut through all metals some metals resist lightsabers, for a time. Second is the Force now I know some people have brought up other Sith Lord's powers saying that they could be used to beat Sephiroth. While this is true those Force powers could be used to beat Sephiroth there is one problem; Vader doesn't know those Force powers. Also the Force can be resisted by those with a strong will, even in the Star Wars universe we can see examples of this. On top of this Vader isn't exactly young anymore, we all remember in Return of the Jedi when Vader was fighting Luke, he was struggling to breathe toward the end of the fight which means in a prolonged fight Vader is at a disadvantage. However even without the Force or his lightsaber Vader is still dangerous. He has fought in an many wars from planet sized to that of an entire galaxy and he is still around.

Now as for Sephiroth, I don't know too much about him. I have never played FFVII and I have only fought him in KH 1&2. However if he is anything like he is in KH then I would have to say he would win in a battle with Vader. First off is his speed, again this is from my experience with him from the Kingdom Hearts series, he is extremely fast both in his movements and his sword play the second the fight started he would close the gap between them in an instant.

So who do I think would win? Well while Vader is a true bad*ss, I would have to go with Sephiroth if only because of his speed. But hey that is just me.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

I've been staying out of this, because I didn't see it until it was going downhill, but...

Now as for Sephiroth, I don't know too much about him. I have never played FFVII and I have only fought him in KH 1&2. However if he is anything like he is in KH then I would have to say he would win in a battle with Vader. First off is his speed, again this is from my experience with him from the Kingdom Hearts series, he is extremely fast both in his movements and his sword play the second the fight started he would close the gap between them in an instant.

For one thing, I don't think KH is considered canon for FF in the least.

For another, KH Sephiroth ends up being defeated by a mildly-retarded 12 year-old and his good friends, a dog and a duck. That isn’t exactly the sort of thing you want on your evil-villain resume.

[asian_brad]

The same thing can be said about Sephiroth. If he were so stong, how come he couldn't defeat cloud in advent children?

Because if he kills Cloud he basically kills himself, I really don't remember how that works but that's the way it is.

[yotsuba-chan]

Darth Vadar. For this sole reason.
What have you now Seprioth?

[asian_brad]

Darth Vadar. For this sole reason.
What have you now Seprioth?

Haha thats really funny. But seriously that makes Vader look gay or just a hello ktty advocate. But it steers me away from the Vader winning possiblity even further.

[Anquietas]

I've been staying out of this, because I didn't see it until it was going downhill, but...


For one thing, I don't think KH is considered canon for FF in the least.

For another, KH Sephiroth ends up being defeated by a mildly-retarded 12 year-old and his good friends, a dog and a duck. That isn’t exactly the sort of thing you want on your evil-villain resume.

Which is why I said "...if he is anything like he is in KH..." in terms of speed he would win. Like I said I haven't played FFVII so if Sephiroth isn't that fast, then Vader would most likely win.

[-Batman-]

Haha thats really funny. But seriously that makes Vader look gay or just a hello ktty advocate. But it steers me away from the Vader winning possiblity even further.

I can post fanart of sephiroth cosplaying as rikku from FFX-2 if you want.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

@yotsuba-chan


Sephiroth's cosplayers are always lamer the Lord Vader's. Always.

[MistaCloudStrife]

For one thing, I don't think KH is considered canon for FF in the least.

For another, KH Sephiroth ends up being defeated by a mildly-retarded 12 year-old and his good friends, a dog and a duck. That isn’t exactly the sort of thing you want on your evil-villain resume.

You can make fun of KH characters as much as you want, but remember some battle tactics that Sephiroth uses in KH and think about how that would be used in a battle against Vader.

He can bring your life down to the brink of death, and even if you manage to get him low on life he just gets faster and crazier. Not to mention he can disappear and reappear out of nowhere and launch pillars of fire from the earth. And this isn't counting his sword skills or even the fact that he can fly. (And with one wing too o.O;)

So yes, a kid and his cartoon buddies defeated him, but that was because they were prepared.

Vader can't attach special skills, summon beasts, or cure himself. Sora can.

Because if he kills Cloud he basically kills himself, I really don't remember how that works but that's the way it is.

Umm... Okay, as much as I'd like to back up Sephiroth against Vader, I can't let false information like this go.

If Cloud were to kill Sephiroth, or vice-versa the other would NOT die.

Now Cloud is said to be a clone of Sephiroth, but there is NO link between them at all except for the fact that they both have Jenova cells in thier bodies. So they aren't really Clones they way we would think of it. I think the word "Clone" in the US FFVII is a mistranslation... Either that or they couldn't find a better word for it.

Other than this I have no idea where you would get the idea that Sephiroth would die if he kills Cloud. You're basically saying that Sephiroth wants to commit suicide.




Now I don't even know which side I'm on, but whatever...

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

You can make fun of KH characters as much as you want, but remember some battle tactics that Sephiroth uses in KH and think about how that would be used in a battle against Vader.

He can bring your life down to the brink of death, and even if you manage to get him low on life he just gets faster and crazier. Not to mention he can disappear and reappear out of nowhere and launch pillars of fire from the earth. And this isn't counting his sword skills or even the fact that he can fly. (And with one wing too o.O

So yes, a kid and his cartoon buddies defeated him, but that was because they were prepared.

Vader can't attach special skills, summon beasts, or cure himself. Sora can.

Umm... Okay, as much as I'd like to back up Sephiroth against Vader, I can't let false information like this go.

If Cloud were to kill Sephiroth, or vice-versa the other would NOT die.

Now Cloud is said to be a clone of Sephiroth, but there is NO link between them at all except for the fact that they both have Jenova cells in thier bodies. So they aren't really Clones they way we would think of it. I think the word "Clone" in the US FFVII is a mistranslation... Either that or they couldn't find a better word for it.

Other than this I have no idea where you would get the idea that Sephiroth would die if he kills Cloud. You're basically saying that Sephiroth wants to commit suicide.

Now I don't even know which side I'm on, but whatever...

It really doesn't matter, because KH isn't canon. It's an alternate reality at best.

As for the second part, he probably got the idea from KH2. Seph says something to the effect that he exists because Cloud does. Or something like that.