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Thread: Should The Punishment fit the Crime?

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    Default Should The Punishment fit the Crime?

    I want to ask what you people think about the justice system.

    The issue is that we have people who run from the police at 90 mph weaving through traffic and running cars off the road putting hundreds of people's health at risk and the cops are going through hell to stop him and the chase takes up to 2 hours until the suspect jumps out and runs into a house and hides.

    His sentance is 2 years in prison for evading arrest and a $700 dollar fine.

    Someone walks into a convieant store and looks around, grabs a bottle of soda and walks out, he stole something meaningless and incredibly lame, a soda. Now he's being sued for thousonds of dollars and faces 5 years jail time for theft.

    Does this make sense to you people?

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    I'm re-posting my response from a really old thread:

    I believe in two ways of dealing with crime, in the first way you look at the offender as a victim of society or mental illness. The bankrobber was driven to robbing the bank because society did not properly educate him so that he could get an ordinary job. The serial-killer is mentally ill, and needs help. Currently we treat the symptom, not the disease. These people need help, and all we do is sweep them under the rug (put them in jail). So essentially, you stop locking people up, and find what's causing people to commit crime, whether it is mental illness or a flawed education system and do something about that.

    The other way is inhuman draconian punishments for all offenses. Think middle ages: Cut the hands off the robber, castrate the rapist, burn the murderer at a stake. You get the picture. Even though some people would be innocent, the punishment isn't really as much a punishment, but a clear message to others not to commit crime. Punishments so inhuman that nobody, no matter how deranged would ever even think of committing a crime.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselmannen
    I'm re-posting my response from a really old thread:

    I believe in two ways of dealing with crime, in the first way you look at the offender as a victim of society or mental illness. The bankrobber was driven to robbing the bank because society did not properly educate him so that he could get an ordinary job. The serial-killer is mentally ill, and needs help. Currently we treat the symptom, not the disease. These people need help, and all we do is sweep them under the rug (put them in jail). So essentially, you stop locking people up, and find what's causing people to commit crime, whether it is mental illness or a flawed education system and do something about that.

    The other way is inhuman draconian punishments for all offenses. Think middle ages: Cut the hands off the robber, castrate the rapist, burn the murderer at a stake. You get the picture. Even though some people would be innocent, the punishment isn't really as much a punishment, but a clear message to others not to commit crime. Punishments so inhuman that nobody, no matter how deranged would ever even think of committing a crime.
    I guess you forgot that there are actual crinimals out there. Like the bank robber driven by greed or the serial killer that isn't mentally ill, but does it for the hell of it. Gacy wasn't mentally ill.

    And, as society has already seen, deterrence doesn't really work. It doesn't do a good job at stopping those really committed to doing the crimes.

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    Yes, Yes it should.

    I hate when someone commits a horrendus crime and gets let off the hoom by a horrible judge that gives them just a slap on the hand and sets them back into society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faceless111
    I guess you forgot that there are actual crinimals out there. Like the bank robber driven by greed or the serial killer that isn't mentally ill, but does it for the hell of it. Gacy wasn't mentally ill.

    And, as society has already seen, deterrence doesn't really work. It doesn't do a good job at stopping those really committed to doing the crimes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisoc...ality_disorder

    That's because there is no deterrence. For most crimes short of Terrorism/Mass-murder, you get sent to prison, where you watch TV and trade stories with other criminals. Some times you get beat-up or killed, but the former is temporary and the latter is fairly uncommon. You start surgically removing limbs for crimes; you'll see people start behaving.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    YES... THE PUNISHMENT SHOULD FIT THE CRIME... AT LEAST AFTER A SPEEDY COURT MARSHAL-THINGY-THING...
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    it depends what is going on in the situation...

    i think that the guy who stole the soda should have to jsut do some sort of community service and pay a fine...5 years seems totally ridiculous in my opinion unless it was during a robbery that made him look like he was part of it or some dangerous situation

    as for the guy who was speeding and running away from the cops is pathetic because he shouldn't of run from the cops unless he was drunk(shouldn't of been in the 1st place), influenced with having or under drugs(shouldn't of happened in the 1st place), or this was some sort of emergency
    if he wasn't under those influences he shouldv'e been able to stop for the cops without causing any sort of trouble, a person who foolishly drives should get their license taken away for some amount of time and even longer if they have had recent law problems relating to locomotives

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    yes it should!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnaku
    I want to ask what you people think about the justice system.

    The issue is that we have people who run from the police at 90 mph weaving through traffic and running cars off the road putting hundreds of people's health at risk and the cops are going through hell to stop him and the chase takes up to 2 hours until the suspect jumps out and runs into a house and hides.

    His sentance is 2 years in prison for evading arrest and a $700 dollar fine.

    Someone walks into a convieant store and looks around, grabs a bottle of soda and walks out, he stole something meaningless and incredibly lame, a soda. Now he's being sued for thousonds of dollars and faces 5 years jail time for theft.

    Does this make sense to you people?
    No to be honest, if you are going to steal a soda, you are either to poor to pay for one, or to lazy to take the money out your pocket.

    for the person who was weaving through traffic and resisting arrest..he should get i think 5 years at miminum, maybe 7 since he endangered lives.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselmannen
    I believe in two ways of dealing with crime, in the first way you look at the offender as a victim of society or mental illness. The bankrobber was driven to robbing the bank because society did not properly educate him so that he could get an ordinary job. The serial-killer is mentally ill, and needs help. Currently we treat the symptom, not the disease. These people need help, and all we do is sweep them under the rug (put them in jail). So essentially, you stop locking people up, and find what's causing people to commit crime, whether it is mental illness or a flawed education system and do something about that.

    The other way is inhuman draconian punishments for all offenses. Think middle ages: Cut the hands off the robber, castrate the rapist, burn the murderer at a stake. You get the picture. Even though some people would be innocent, the punishment isn't really as much a punishment, but a clear message to others not to commit crime. Punishments so inhuman that nobody, no matter how deranged would ever even think of committing a crime.
    I vote for B.



  11. #11
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    Hmm...I see a few things going on in the justice system but as always these are just my observations and opinions. First of all, to fit the punishment to the crime someone must judge which crimes are worse and in life so few agree on such issues. Perhaps major issues like murder is worse than stealing a candy bar, but the finer points will cause a lot of uproar to those who have been personally effected by the crimes.

    Second, although I by no means wish to advocate crime, it is not appropriate to de-humanize the criminal when sentencing. It doesn't mean punishment should be avoided, but it does mean that that person is still a human being and to think of them otherwise is just as much a crime as the ones that were committed.

    Also, this mandatory sentencing is ridiculous. If there's a problem fix the problem, not slap a half baked bandaid over it and call it good. If the problem is the judges and inconsistant sentencing, then perhaps that means either judges, election of judges or the sentences need to be re-evaluated. Instead we now have required sentences that a judge cannot rule over to sentence people--half of which are guilty of a far lesser crime than the one they are being sentenced for because the laws are written so poorly and are so vague that half the population might fit into it.

    Lastly, when making a sentence they should consider what happens after the person is released. Rather than make it so the person cannot get a job, cannot support themselves thus becoming a burden on their family or soceity or both--why not actually help those who are not repeat offenders and who honestly are trying to turn their life around. Instead, we throw them back out on the street with nothing, unable to get a job, unable to find a place to stay in some cases, unable to support themselves or their families...so then they turn back to the life of crime be it in making money or coping with their newly wrecked life. Then we point the finger and complain that they are bad people when really we are the ones that took away their chance to be successful and go on from their mistake.

    Nothing excuses what a criminal does, even if it is understandable how s/he came to the crime. However, if we are going to issue sentences that have such profound effects upon not just the criminal but the families of the criminal and any victim and his/her families, then we should take responsibility for our own actions and make sure we don't just throw them back out to make it even easier to fall further down in life and more difficult to live a normal life. There are two sides to every story and so often it is the side of the criminal that is never heard for people seem to only be interested in the crime and punishment. When the laws are so black and white for such a colorful world, it isn't really condusive to have such close minded perspectives when creating and issuing sentences.

    So from this perspective, no that sentence does not make sense in comparison to the other. Everything is connected and what happens after the theif is released from jail and wants to try to make an honest living? S/he may not be a felon, but going to prison for any reason usually makes an employer find a reason not to hire you or a neighborhood to not have space available.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakakame
    I vote for B.
    Hell it works in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Friend of mine who was a Cpl at the time he was in Kuwait was stationed in SA for a week while waiting deployment. Left his 500 dollar camera on a table in a outside restaurant thing. Came back two days later to search for it and couldn't believe his eyes when he saw it sitting in the same spot.

    Saudi Arabians know the punishment for stealing very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat
    Hell it works in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Friend of mine who was a Cpl at the time he was in Kuwait was stationed in SA for a week while waiting deployment. Left his 500 dollar camera on a table in a outside restaurant thing. Came back two days later to search for it and couldn't believe his eyes when he saw it sitting in the same spot.

    Saudi Arabians know the punishment for stealing very well.
    What do they do torcher them and cut their heads off when finished? Thats amazing Sagat...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riku_
    What do they do torcher them and cut their heads off when finished? Thats amazing Sagat...
    Choppity chop chop goes the right hand if I recall correctly.

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    Edit: Never mind. Sagat beat me to it.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat
    Choppity chop chop goes the right hand if I recall correctly.
    Thats messed up... Cruel and Unusual punishment seems to work when it can be inforced

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riku_
    Thats messed up... Cruel and Unusual punishment seems to work when it can be inforced
    Especially to those in that area who deem the right hand the "clean" and sanitary hand to use. I don't know if it's a Muslim or middle eastern thing but the left hand is the "dirty" hand (I think... think they use it for bathroom related things as well as touching non-halal foods).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat
    Especially to those in that area who deem the right hand the "clean" and sanitary hand to use. I don't know if it's a Muslim or middle eastern thing but the left hand is the "dirty" hand (I think... think they use it for bathroom related things as well as touching non-halal foods).
    As far as I know they take this custom very seriously. I have a Muslim classmate in my Geography class. I went to shake his right hand one time to introduce myself, the guy looked at me as if I had slapped him repeatedly across the face. He explained of course, but man that was an awkward moment O_o

    Anyways, should the punishment fit the crime? Wish I could say I had something significant to contribute to the discussion, but all I can do after those types of answers is agree (especially with Dieselmannen's second point). Fear is a powerful deterent. Brutal? Yes. Effective? Hell yes. Why hasn't it worked for us? Because we really haven't shown consequences that criminals will be put off from. Not to mention I'm a Canadian. I'd go into detail but my knowledge on the subject is very limited, so don't take me seriously if I've made some form of inaccuracy in my post. I'm sure Sagat could answer any questions on Canadian laws, government etc.

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  19. #19
    Master of all you see Ryuk has a spectacular aura about Ryuk has a spectacular aura about Ryuk's Avatar
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    You shoud just kill them then ther will be no crime now will there.
    Don't rep me I am only a product of my environment.

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  20. #20
    SPQR Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat has a reputation beyond repute Sagat's Avatar
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    Ryuk that post was so stupid and immensely senseless that my reply to you ends here, with me in utter contempt for your lack of intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by animefreak91
    I'm sure Sagat could answer any questions on Canadian laws, government etc.
    It favours criminals and gives them too many rights while forcing law abiding citizens to bend over and take it with a smile and a tip of the cap. There.

  21. #21
    Property of Memento Mori !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.! has a reputation beyond repute !.Ski Takeshi.!'s Avatar
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    Well sometimes there off, and other times there right on the mark.
    they know there not perfect.

  22. #22
    Im an ann0ying l0ser inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089 inuyasha_lover7089's Avatar
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    yeah totally because your just going to sit in a jail for the rest of your life and not doing anything if you killed someone you should be killed one last person to think about

  23. #23
    LP fan Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God's Avatar
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    Eye for an eye!!

    Thanks BD15...you rule!!!

    To help those in need and to be a true friend! That is my nindo, my ninja way!

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  24. #24
    4: [Classified brah] Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris has a reputation beyond repute Eris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasuke is god
    Eye for an eye!!
    Err, that's why we invented the legal system in the first place: To avoid the vendettas eye for an eye caused, as they could last for generations. This is because no man is an island, there are always vindictive relatives ready to pass on the torch.

     
    How's that for a mixed metaphor?

  25. #25
    LP fan Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God is infamous around these parts Sasuke is God's Avatar
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    true i never thought of it that way but still i vote for an eye for an eye policy!!

    Thanks BD15...you rule!!!

    To help those in need and to be a true friend! That is my nindo, my ninja way!

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