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Thread: Immigrants -- Too much from Mexico?

  1. #1
    Ace of Trades Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne has a reputation beyond repute Lucidian Dyne's Avatar
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    Default Immigrants -- Too much from Mexico?

    Pick through this topic if you need to, but take a gander at this.

    Things are cookin' in Washington DC.

    In a television broadcast made by President Bush on May 15th 2006, he spoke of concerns regarding the the subject of immigrants, immigration laws, and the effects of outstanding immigration into the US from Mexico. Really, I'm not the best resource for enlightening all of you folks on this subject. But I feel this was a subject that would spark a topic here in the forums.

    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free~" This is part of a dedication that can be found at the foot of the Statue of Liberty. The words were engraved in the year 1903, after hard times that followed the birth of the United States. These words give hope to those that wish to find freedom from oppression from other countries, whether they were refugees or if they simply sought to find a better living.

    It is part of an implied testament that most of us are aware of -- that everyone who wishes to find freedom of all types can find shelter within our borders. The United States has upheld this philosophy for a long time, though it seems that the Melting Pot is finally boiling over.

    In an address made from the Oval Office, President Bush has commented on:

    -- The influx of Mexican immigrants. Normally, the US would detain immigrants and try to get them to go back into their home country. When detention camps became overcrowded, it is fair to say that we have been losing control over the people that cross the border to stay within the US.

    -- A plan to legalize and support the millions of immigrants currently in the US. Ideas have been given that range from employment cards (kinda like green cards) to guest-worker programs that offer lower wages to those that refuse to assimilate into US society and economy. Mexicans who cross the border without the intent to contribute to society will be viewed as felons to be deported.

    -- The need to control US borders. Lots of money will be spent in order to assign at least 6000 troops to Border Patrol, at a time. It is possible that more than 150,000 different faces will be seeing to this task of helping the National Guard combat the problem of illegal immigrants from Mexico.

    -- Overhauling laws for punishment against crimes done by immigrants. This all goes back to being a productive citizen of the country. Those who want to earn citizenship should have to assimilate into society, learn English, pay fines for breaking the law and pay back taxes.

    ------------------------------------
    These are a few of the issues that are being discussed, and there has already been laws passed that support many of these main ideas. As I've said before, you should read up on these things yourself to get a better picture.

    This has been a point of controversy for citizens of the USA. Should we allow these immigrants -- whose allegiance to supporting their families could be defined as lack of support to the US -- to keep coming in? Will our resources just keep getting spread out to support everyone that comes in?

    We can't keep everyone out, but we can't let everyone in. There's a critical mass that's being reached here, and while some of you may laugh at the idea of another Great Depression, it could happen within our lifetimes if something here isn't controlled.

    I'm interested to know how this will be debated. I realize that there are a lot of people here in the forums that are not citizens of the US, but there are issues here that hit a common ground for all of us, in some way.

    Share your thoughts. Don't get out of control, though.
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  2. #2
    Moderator / Chat Admin Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucidian Dyne
    -- A plan to legalize and support the millions of immigrants currently in the US. Ideas have been given that range from employment cards (kinda like green cards) to guest-worker programs that offer lower wages to those that refuse to assimilate into US society and economy. Mexicans who cross the border without the intent to contribute to society will be viewed as felons to be deported.
    This, I completely agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucidian Dyne
    -- Overhauling laws for punishment against crimes done by immigrants. This all goes back to being a productive citizen of the country. Those who want to earn citizenship should have to assimilate into society, learn English, pay fines for breaking the law and pay back taxes.
    Okay, excuse me, learn WHAT? English you say? I almost completely agreed with everything, up until that part. First of all, yes, the majority of America speaks english, but if you want to get technical, this DOES follow under the freedom of speech catagory.

    Second of all, it's not fair to do that, when obviously it's okay for major corporations like Microsoft, Walmart, Sprint Wireless, etc to hire third-world indians that YES, speak english, BUT not clearly at all, in a sense that shouldn't even BE called english.

    Is this fair? I don't think so.



  3. #3
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    Most of these ideas are being given, second-hand. Haha, I nearly wanted to plagiarize some of the things I was reading, but then... it wouldn't be a topic that I had written by my own hands.

    Yeah, it's messed up that the government wants to enforce productive citizens to be able to speak English. But then again, how much English are we talking about? Enough to "get by"? Or enough for immigrants to engage socially in all walks of American life? The desires here are kinda vague, but this is one of the things that's being proposed at the capital.

    Read up on it a little bit. I suck at being a resource. x.x
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  4. #4
    Moderator / Chat Admin Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew has a reputation beyond repute Andrew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucidian Dyne
    Most of these ideas are being given, second-hand. Haha, I nearly wanted to plagiarize some of the things I was reading, but then... it wouldn't be a topic that I had written by my own hands.

    Yeah, it's messed up that the government wants to enforce productive citizens to be able to speak English. But then again, how much English are we talking about? Enough to "get by"? Or enough for immigrants to engage socially in all walks of American life? The desires here are kinda vague, but this is one of the things that's being proposed at the capital.

    Read up on it a little bit. I suck at being a resource. x.x
    Haha, trust me, I been following the news. =p And you bring up a good point, they DO need to be more specific about "learning english". And just for clerification, I meant that those major companies are hiring third-world indians, first of all, to save money as they do not pay them as much (WHICH is -STILL- elimating jobs for US citizens) and two, when we call those stupid 800 numbers to get customer service, we DO interact with them.

    I am FAR from racist, but I will make one thing clear. I REFUSE to let someone that I can BARELY understand, deal with my personal affairs, such as my credit card (also majority of Credit Card companies, ie; Capital One, American Express, etc all hire third-world.)

    Nope, won't do it. People can call me racist all they want. But I won't. I've been screwed over already, because they didn't understand what I needed.

    But do I think they should be fired? NO. They deserve jobs just as much as we do.
    Last edited by Andrew; 05-16-2006 at 02:31 AM.



  5. #5
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    There have always been concerns that job aren't being given to the Americans who need them. My dad calls it "Shipping jobs across the border", but even getting past the metaphor, that's basically what's happening. People cross the border to work, get their money, and bring it back to their families.

    Now, while I can understand that they're doing what they can to support themselves, it's a drain on USA's economy. I mean, when you really ponder the thought. Do we have more than enough to go around? What kind of ideas are we predisposing ourselves to at this day in age? We help the poor and the needy, but even Robin Hood had to settle down with Maid Marion sometime, right?

    It's like this. When it comes to resources and living, the USA has what it takes to feed the mouths of most everyone. But our power to do so is finite. Political critics, senators and other similar authorities talk of the USA becoming a third world country like it's the real thing. While none of us may see that happening in one huge leap, we can't deny that it's draining the resources we have.

    So, it really all goes back to one thing. Acquisition of politcal territory (Iraq), not necessarily the land itself, is just a means of getting our foot in the proverbial door. Undeniably, America has a really big foot.

    Anyways, the immigration reformations are just a step to keep from getting plowed under from everyone else. At least, as far as it goes politically. Not all Americans agree with their governments methods.
    life is an existential carousel... (journal update: dec 12 2006) //// dawnrune made my avy. he also made a sig for me, but I'm going to retire it. (looking for a replacement set! but I have no money. interested in helping? PM me.)
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piper
    Haha, trust me, I been following the news. =p And you bring up a good point, they DO need to be more specific about "learning english". And just for clerification, I meant that those major companies are hiring third-world indians, first of all, to save money as they do not pay them as much (WHICH is -STILL- elimating jobs for US citizens) and two, when we call those stupid 800 numbers to get customer service, we DO interact with them.

    I am FAR from racist, but I will make one thing clear. I REFUSE to let someone that I can BARELY understand, deal with my personal affairs, such as my credit card (also majority of Credit Card companies, ie; Capital One, American Express, etc all hire third-world.)

    Nope, won't do it. People can call me racist all they want. But I won't. I've been screwed over already, because they didn't understand what I needed.

    But do I think they should be fired? NO. They deserve jobs just as much as we do.
    I agree with what you say .. mostly. I unfortunately had some guy in Pakistan or something deal with (and screw all to hell) my car payments. It took me four calls back to finally get an english speaking person who fixed the problem for me in no time flat.

    And I think they should be fired. Screw them, if they want to do a job that has such an importance on speech and clarity, then learn the freakin language. I wouldn't go work at some bank in China what with my inability to speak Mandarin, they shouldn't be doing it here.

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    i think we should just send them all back.....the illegal ones anyway^^
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    Much like flying to the moon on a homemade rocket ship it's good in theory, but some minor problems such as:

    1. Oh I don't know, manpower to do such a thing as finding each and every one of the illegals in the country
    2. Resources and money to put such a project into motion to track and locate them
    3. Even more resources to round them up and process the docs and paperwork to send them back


    It is such a resource hog and drain to do that, that it's not even remotely feasibly possible

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagat
    I agree with what you say .. mostly. I unfortunately had some guy in Pakistan or something deal with (and screw all to hell) my car payments. It took me four calls back to finally get an english speaking person who fixed the problem for me in no time flat.

    And I think they should be fired. Screw them, if they want to do a job that has such an importance on speech and clarity, then learn the freakin language. I wouldn't go work at some bank in China what with my inability to speak Mandarin, they shouldn't be doing it here.
    On the other hand, how much Native American did the European immigrants speak when they arrived?

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    True, but in the same token they were invaders. They were stronger and the stronger dictate how things work.

    War does not determine who is right or wrong, only who is left... or however that quote goes.

    To the victor go the spoils, but they should have added "and the future"

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