God. Yeah, that's what I said. Everyone Welcome.

[_allismine_]

How do you feel about people banning Him and His name from public places? People are now complaining about praying in school, the 'One nation, under God' line in the pledge of allegience (sp?), the 'In God We Trust' line on the dollar bill.

Heck, there was even this one rap song I was listening to on muchmusic, and when the guy said 'Pray for me', they censored it out. What do you think about this?

[Daenerys]

Shoving religion down someone's throat isn't what america is about.

America is about freedom. This country was founded by people who were seeking religious freedom.

Why make those people hypocrites, by forcing everyone to believe in something they don't?

I remember getting detention all the time in school because I refused to say the pledge of alliegence. They said I was being unpatriotic. My family came to america to avoid Hilter. We didn't come here to have christianity forced down our throats by people who are hypocrites.


Edit: btw, it's not a HANDFUL of people, take ten people. 5 of them most likely don't think it's acceptable to force feed religion down someone's throat, because they are either not religious or involved in another religion that doesn't worship god.

[-akichan-]

Christianity talks has been cencoured in many places and many situations. Some peoples has problems with peoples talking about God because they think that being a christian is always in control from doing wutever they want.

Some peoples are rather offended for some reasons, thats why the words "pray for me" was cencoured.

I can't name all the reasons of why the talks should be cencoured cos i cant read everybody's minds.

It is neither acceptable or unacceptable. In the US which where im living now, we have free religion talk and religion freedom, unless some peoples are against christianity.

[_allismine_]

Shoving religion down someone's throat isn't what america is about.

America is about freedom. This country was founded by people who were seeking religious freedom.

Why make those people hypocrites, by forcing everyone to believe in something they don't?

I remember getting detention all the time in school because I refused to say the pledge of alliegence. They said I was being unpatriotic. My family came to america to avoid Hilter. We didn't come here to have christianity forced down our throats by people who are hypocrites.
Edit: btw, it's not a HANDFUL of people, take ten people. 5 of them most likely don't think it's acceptable to force feed religion down someone's throat, because they are either not religious or involved in another religion that doesn't worship god.

Thank you for making an excellent point, and I'm sorry if I come off as forcing God upon people.
I understand that stances on God are different, and I am not willing to automatically judge people because of it.
But that's the point I'm trying to make. America is about FREEDOM. If you CHOOSE not to believe in God, if you CHOOSE not to say the pledge of allegience, good for you, because it's a free country. But I'm just pointing out these people who are actually protesting God in public places. I'm just saying exactly what you said, this is a FREE country.
Like that one Jewish girl's father who ranted about prayer in her school, even though she went to an ALL-CATHOLIC school. I mean, come on, give me a break.
America is not shoving religion down people's throats by having single lines about God in all-important places. If you don't believe in God, I'm all for you if you refuse to say the pledge of alleigiance (sp?), or if you refuse to pray in class. That's alright, that's what you believe in. But I'm just against people actually trying to change America because of a few lines.

[Daenerys]

And I also CHOOSE to vote against my children having people force religion down thier throats as well. This country is born on the basis of religious freedom. I like how you skipped that part of my post.

Religious freedom means that you can believe in whatever you want, without the government telling you, you have to believe in something else.

I understand that people want things to stay the same, because they are familiar.

But they are offensive to other people.

I don't like walking down the street by my mother's house (where I was raised) walking under a hill with a giant cross over it. A giant cross that's on property that belongs to a SCHOOL. A PUBLIC SCHOOL. Everytime there's a petition to take it down, some mysterious benifactor pays to have it put back up.

On my way home from work, when I worked at Submarina, there was this woman's house, with neon lights with "GOD" and it said below it something about going to hell if you didn't believe.

ON SOMEONE'S HOUSE.

And the county couldn't take it down because it's "Freedom of speech."

I don't like having that shoved down my throat, metaphorically, but it's her freedom to voice her OPINION that everyone who doesn't believe in god, will go to hell.

I don't believe in hell, I don't believe in god. I'm allowed to voice my opinion.

Yet when I told my teacher in the 5th grade that I didn't believe in god, she sent me HOME.

There is a difference between religious freedom, and supressing an american's rights.

And religion often surpresses american's rights to FREEDOM.

Therefore, religion's are supposed to be seperated from state, and not forced down someone's throat. This country was built on religious freedom. Nothing else. It was built by people who didn't believe that the king was ordained by god. And some (quakers) who didn't really believe in the whole religious babble.

[_allismine_]

This country is born on the basis of religious freedom. I like how you skipped that part of my post.

Excuse me, but I don't think I did.

Religious freedom means that you can believe in whatever you want, without the government telling you, you have to believe in something else.

Yes. I agree with this.

I understand that people want things to stay the same, because they are familiar. But they are offensive to other people.

Maybe, for some people, it's not because it's familiar. Maybe it's because some people actually believe in the lines. I understand that not everyone will agree with them, and I understand they may count as offensive to others.

I don't like walking down the street by my mother's house (where I was raised) walking under a hill with a giant cross over it. A giant cross that's on property that belongs to a SCHOOL. A PUBLIC SCHOOL. Everytime there's a petition to take it down, some mysterious benifactor pays to have it put back up. On my way home from work, when I worked at Submarina, there was this woman's house, with neon lights with "GOD" and it said below it something about going to hell if you didn't believe. ON SOMEONE'S HOUSE. And the county couldn't take it down because it's "Freedom of speech." I don't like having that shoved down my throat, metaphorically, but it's her freedom to voice her OPINION that everyone who doesn't believe in god, will go to hell.

Yes. America is a FREE COUNTRY, and unfortunately, the public has a right to be as offensive as they can be, due to 'freedom of speech'. Although I may not agree with the actions of some radicals, and do believe that the 'going to hell if you don't believe' statement is highly offensive, even to me, it is, in fact, their RIGHT to do so. Just like it is MY RIGHT to start this thread, just like it is YOUR RIGHT to not believe in God, and just like it is THE PUBLIC'S RIGHT to create a big, neon green banner painted 'GOD IS NOT ALMIGHTY, SATAN IS MY MASTER', and post it in the front of their house.

I don't believe in hell, I don't believe in god. I'm allowed to voice my opinion. Yet when I told my teacher in the 5th grade that I didn't believe in god, she sent me HOME. There is a difference between religious freedom, and supressing an american's rights. And religion often surpresses american's rights to FREEDOM. Therefore, religions are supposed to be seperated from state, and not forced down someone's throat. This country was built on religious freedom.

Yes, you are allowed to voice your opinion. Everyone is. Which is why I actually support your statement here, believe it or not. Apparently, there was a reason State and Religion are seperated in law, which is why they took down a Ten Commandments statue in the front of a courthouse. Although I was highly offended by this action, I understood then what you just said now: 'This country was built on religious freedom.'. Personally, I support the idea that America should reach a state of religious neutrality. But to do that without a sense of bias, you have to either publically support all religions, which would tick off the Atheists, or none at all, which would tick off all the religious groups anyway. So I realised then, that all the radicals, and all the protestors, were trying to push America's religious bias in their favour.
I realised that there was no solution. Then I realised why there were never any winners in religious debates. Stances on religion, and what is considered 'offensive' are value judgements, so there's not, and never will be, a right answer.
This thread was just me standing up for what I think is right. Not to put crosses everywhere, not to close down all other religious churches, but just to leave alls well alone with the Pledge and prayer in school. If it offends you, just don't do it. BUT REALISE MY SUPPORT HERE: If anyone, I don't care who it is, gives you a hard time for walking away, they are the ones who are wrong.

[lorie]

the fact is i can see why ppl will not go for religion and why they are devoted to religion at the same time. i do believe in Allah but i sometimes have mi doubts.

if they take away God related pledges from public places... well i guess times are changing so they should take pplz opinion when it becomes suitable and an important decision that will effect everyone. ppl should consider others feeling and only take concern on a business of theirs. if they say bann it from everywhere well thats stupid not everyone will agree and it could lead to consequences.

[_allismine_]

the fact is i can see why ppl will not go for religion and why they are devoted to religion at the same time. i do believe in Allah but i sometimes have mi doubts.
if they take away God related pledges from public places... well i guess times are changing so they should take pplz opinion when it becomes suitable and an important decision that will effect everyone. ppl should consider others feeling and only take concern on a business of theirs. if they say bann it from everywhere well thats stupid not everyone will agree and it could lead to consequences.

Exactly. See how hard it would be to please everybody at the same time? Short answer is: You can't.

[lorie]

lolz exactly and if its to do with religion..thats even more impossible since its very strict

[Mind]

I typically identify myself a strong atheist or existentialist. With that out of the way, I believe we, as a secular community, should be careful and pick our battles. For instance, giving a school hell because it has a poster with Christ on it, while quite displeasing to me, is quite irrelevant, and just makes us look whiny. However, some issues are more prevalent, and should be treated with more importance. I'm more worried about religious oriented laws and political ideals, than I am political correctness. Quite frankly, I'm more worried about gay rights than some smuck wishing me a happy Christmas.

However, this doesn't mean I'm fine with prayer in schools and such, it's just that I have priorities in a diffrent order.

Mind.

[Eris]

It's rather immature to ban religion. If your point of view is correct, you are perfectly able to convince others that you are. History shows that trying to opress religion only makes it stronger.

Sweden has in less than 100 years gone from a very religious society to a one of the world's most secularized. There was no ban of god, and religious people are still openly religious. Education and science has largely made religion redundant here.

[Masali]

ugh, how Juvenille. Banning religion from public places, Frankly I don't care either way. I hardly think it's being shoved down anyone's throat. Just because it's there, doesn't mean we're forcing it on anyone. However, if the minority doesn't believe what sense does it make to change for the minority? Ecspecially if there's no harm being done.

In my eyes, no harm no foul.

[PigFarts]

I think things should stay the way they are...I, for one, don't believe in God, yet every morning in school, I say the pledge of alligence. I don't take out the "one nation, under god," part, I just say it. If people have a problem with that...well, thing of the religious majority in America: Chritianity with it's "stems," protestant, catholic, methodist, the whole kitten kaboodle! And then there's (well, at least in my communtiy) Judasm. (spelling!) I mean, the population of Jewish family's in America may not be high (but as I said, half of my town is Jewish), but they're there! And of course, there may be a couple of muslim family in some towns in America...

...what I'm trying to say is that these three religions have one thing in common...ONE GOD...now, I know that the god of Islam beliefs is refered to as "allah," but if you aren't christian, but Jewish or muslim, why don't you just think of the one nation under god is your god. I know that wasn't the intention (considering that America was founded by mainly ENGLISH PURITANS who wanted religious freedom...they wanted to follow the belief of Puritanism...not catholism...that's what the religious freedom thing was...)

I probably didn't make sense and contradicted myself, but if you choose not to say "one nation under god" in the pledge of alligence, then don't. And another thing...when did public schools start "praying?" I've gone to publice school for the past 11 years...and I do not remember praying at all...

I hope I made my point clear.

[Eris]

I can see why people are having problems with "One nation under god", and "In god we trust", though, ask yourself (as a christian), what you would think if it said "From monkeys we spring"?

It's not like the minorities have a choice. A democracy should not be majority's oppression of minority.

[Tsuna Kadiri]

To me, it feels like people are very easily offended when it comes to religion in general. Yes, something that speaks out or is against your religion is always bound to be somewhere in some corner of the world one way or another. Whether it be a sign or article or movement or speech or painting, it's there. Whether you feel it's importaint enough to speak out or rebel against is all up to you.

Personally, I never thought anything much of saying, "One nation, under God" in the pledge of allegience. It's there, has always been there, done deal. I'm hardly religious, and my idea of God is different that what some other religions' base ideas are. But, hey, there are more importaint things in life than obsessing over those 4 words.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Y'know.. its discussions like this that make me glad I live in Canada instead of the US..... I'll point out this however: Your choice is your choice, but protesting God in public, and saying He shouldnt be taught about in schools goes against MY religion's beliefes. My religion was MY choice, and I'll gie everyone else thier choices, but PLEASE get off your high-horses and THINK before you denouce another person's views.

[_allismine_]

Wow! All of you prove very valid points, thank you so much for posting!
I'm really happy I started this thread, being able to see everyone's viewpoints on this issue.

Quite frankly, I'm more worried about gay rights than some smuck wishing me a happy Christmas.

Same here. I'm more concerned about gay rights than someone wishing me a happy Hanikkah (sp?) / Kwaanza (sp?) / Winter Solstice.

History shows that trying to opress religion only makes it stronger.

Can't argue with that fact. ^^

Just because it's there, doesn't mean we're forcing it on anyone. However, if the minority doesn't believe what sense does it make to change for the minority? Ecspecially if there's no harm being done.

THANK you. I don't see change is necessary at this point.

...what I'm trying to say is that these three religions have one thing in common...ONE GOD...now, I know that the god of Islam beliefs is refered to as "allah," but if you aren't christian, but Jewish or muslim, why don't you just think of the one nation under god is your god. I know that wasn't the intention (considering that America was founded by mainly ENGLISH PURITANS who wanted religious freedom...they wanted to follow the belief of Puritanism...not catholism...that's what the religious freedom thing was...)

You prove a very excellent point here. The word 'God' in the lines I was talking about, could be anyone's God! Whatever name you might call Him by, He is still Him, why can't anyone see that?

I can see why people are having problems with "One nation under god", and "In god we trust", though, ask yourself (as a christian), what you would think if it said "From monkeys we spring"?

lol I never thought about it that way before. ^^

Personally, I never thought anything much of saying, "One nation, under God" in the pledge of allegience. It's there, has always been there, done deal. I'm hardly religious, and my idea of God is different that what some other religions' base ideas are. But, hey, there are more importaint things in life than obsessing over those 4 words.

Yes. And the sooner the public starts seeing that, the sooner we can 'band together', regardless of race, religion, or creed, and solve more important issues in the world.

Y'know.. its discussions like this that make me glad I live in Canada instead of the US..... I'll point out this however: Your choice is your choice, but protesting God in public, and saying He shouldnt be taught about in schools goes against MY religion's beliefes. My religion was MY choice, and I'll gie everyone else thier choices, but PLEASE get off your high-horses and THINK before you denouce another person's views.

I agree with this. It's almost hypocritical, if you think about it; denouncing another person's belief.

[Eris]

And the sooner the public starts seeing that, the sooner we can 'band together', regardless of race, religion, or creed, and solve more important issues in the world.

Not gonna happen. History can tell you that. Solve the important issues first, then the rest will fall into place.

[Mind]

The word 'God' in the lines I was talking about, could be anyone's God! Whatever name you might call Him by, He is still Him, why can't anyone see that

Forgive me of being critical, but when you capitalize the 'G' in god, it refers to the Judeo-Christian god.

[_allismine_]

Not gonna happen. History can tell you that. Solve the important issues first, then the rest will fall into place.

Eh, good point.

Forgive me of being critical, but when you capitalize the 'G' in god, it refers to the Judeo-Christian god.

No problem. Thank you for pointing that out.

[Kishiro]

I love America. But I don't love that particular line of the pledge. I think it should be removed. If not, I want to hear every single deity worshipped by anyone ever in the pledge of allegiance.

I don't care about tradition. I want equality, and equal representation. I agree with Ai, obviously. Don't shove religion down people's throats.

Also, I hate how so many Christians scoff at the ideas of fair representation of other religions in school, or get all pissy when you suggest merely taking out "ond nation under god" from the pledge. As if that could destroy their very way of life, or deter them from their faith. Please. If they were truly faithful, they would be in the same view as people like me.

Why is it that they NEVER once think they could be wrong? Like they are the end all, be all, start all, know all?

[Crimson Phoenix]

I love America. But I don't love that particular line of the pledge. I think it should be removed. If not, I want to hear every single deity worshipped by anyone ever in the pledge of allegiance.

I don't care about tradition. I want equality, and equal representation. I agree with Ai, obviously. Don't shove religion down people's throats.

Also, I hate how so many Christians scoff at the ideas of fair representation of other religions in school, or get all pissy when you suggest merely taking out "ond nation under god" from the pledge. As if that could destroy their very way of life, or deter them from their faith. Please. If they were truly faithful, they would be in the same view as people like me.

Why is it that they NEVER once think they could be wrong? Like they are the end all, be all, start all, know all?

yeah, I admit christians like that are the ones that give us a bad name. And according our faith, everyone's beliefs are equal in the eyes of our God and no one man woman or child should be forced into serving Him. This is why our faith says He gave us free will, so we could choose to follow Him or not. We haveta respect others decisions, we dont haveta LIKE said decisions, but we have to respect them and not try to force our own beliefs on someone else. Thats what I was taught, and its why I chose to be christian and follow my God. If someone I know doesnt want to follow Him, thats fine, thier choice right?

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

I think the world would be a happier, more peaceful place if we just dusted off the ole' gene pool. Not by any criteria so sloppy as Religion, or Race, just intelligence. And, by intelligence I mean the ability to form logic and not something as arbitrary as IQ, SATs or GPA. I'm not saying we should necessarily kill them, just sterilize them.


Because people who do things like This guy and claim the first amendment protects them shouldn't be allowed to breed (Specifically, I'm talking about his congregation holding protests at the funerals of gay men). It's interesting to note, that out of the 100-200 members of the Westburo Baptist Church, 90 are related to him by blood or marriage.


There are way too many people who whine about this issue on both sides. Saying, or not saying two words that were added in the 50's as something to differentiate ourselves from the communists hardly matters to me. I think the whole Idea is stupid mind you, but it hardly offends me to hear a mention of god in an anthem. I mean, so what? So long as Religious folks don't get tax brakes, special lines at the DMV, or other similar phenomenon I'm happy.

However, the Crazy/Religious people are stupid in a different way. They post signs, and think that someone cares. When was the last time you reconsidered your faith based on a bumper sticker? When I read a billboard that says "What part of thou shalt not don't you understand - God" do I honestly reconsider my actions? Does anyone? What a waste of time. Mentioning god in a non-religious conversation, or Writing on a piece of poster board I should worship him is tacky, and at best in bad taste.

[_allismine_]

I understand all of your points, really.
And I agree that radicals are what give religions a bad name. ALL of them. Christians / Catholics being all whiny and judgemental about other religions, Muslims slaughtering innocent people in the name of 'Allah', you see what I mean?
Unfortunately, apparently, the only kinds of people the news is willing to show are radicals, and the news is what turns us bias against all those like them subliminally.
Anyway, I believe that just because some people don't like a couple of lines, it doesn't mean we should change something that's been going on for hundereds of years. You don't like it? Don't do it. Anyone who objects you as a person for doing that is wrong. I can't reiterate this point enough.

[Princess Minako]

Just a warning, due to the nature of these threads in the past, I am watching this like a hawk. Should it start to even hint that its going to turn into an over emotional flame fest, it will be closed down.

In short, play nice kids or I'll take your toys away.

The Goddess has Spoken